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	<title>Comments on: Shape up, or ship out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/</link>
	<description>An independent look at South African rugby</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Onlooker</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5646</link>
		<dc:creator>Onlooker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Simon,
I don&#039;t buy into it
Being fit doesn&#039;t necessarily make you more resiliant to hits and injuries which are part of rugby
Also, I am sure there is(was) a fitness clause in Q. Davids, E. Andrews and L. Sephaka contracts, so, are they really match fit rugby players? any penalty inccured?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,<br />
I don&#8217;t buy into it<br />
Being fit doesn&#8217;t necessarily make you more resiliant to hits and injuries which are part of rugby<br />
Also, I am sure there is(was) a fitness clause in Q. Davids, E. Andrews and L. Sephaka contracts, so, are they really match fit rugby players? any penalty inccured?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blouskop</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5572</link>
		<dc:creator>blouskop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Snoop,
I quote your comment no. 5:
&quot;I dont want to see Percy.... Pedrie play in the POINTLESS currie cup and lesser tests this year.

Cubiczirconia,
&#039;each team in your group once with play off after that&#039;. That still isn&#039;t fair. We should look at something like Champions League or even Premiership soccer in Europe. Those teams would not put up with less. Home and away and then semis and finals for the top two in each group is fair and the S14 teams still would play less matches than the current S14 format, I believe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snoop,<br />
I quote your comment no. 5:<br />
&#8220;I dont want to see Percy&#8230;. Pedrie play in the POINTLESS currie cup and lesser tests this year.</p>
<p>Cubiczirconia,<br />
&#8216;each team in your group once with play off after that&#8217;. That still isn&#8217;t fair. We should look at something like Champions League or even Premiership soccer in Europe. Those teams would not put up with less. Home and away and then semis and finals for the top two in each group is fair and the S14 teams still would play less matches than the current S14 format, I believe.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vetkoek</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>Vetkoek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Snoop earlier. JW should be developing 40 players that he can use for the WOrld Cup.

He should have an A and a B side. Use the B side in the early tests and the November tests against the likes of Wales and Ireland. Even if they lose, we will be giving them much needed exposure at this level and then when they are drafted to and from the A side, they will fit into the structures no problem.

Use the strongest team this year for the Tri Nations and the England tests in November. Also, stuff the currie cup. As a competition these days, it has lost it&#039;s appeal. The only reason it ranks so high on everyone&#039;s list of dram wins, is because it&#039;s about all our boys are confident of winning anymore... Use it as a blooding ground for new talent. And lose the small unions who waste time and just make up numbers. WP, Natal, Lions, Bulls, Free State and Griquas or something should compete and have the next generation of players hammering away at each other week after week, before steppiung up to S12 and then Tri Nations etc. The path to being a Springbok should be a hard slog, where you must earn your wings at every level before gaining the ultimate prize.

All this would also help speed transformation along at a far greater pace, because there would be space in the CC teams for the players out there who play second fiddle to the countries top 50 players.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Snoop earlier. JW should be developing 40 players that he can use for the WOrld Cup.</p>
<p>He should have an A and a B side. Use the B side in the early tests and the November tests against the likes of Wales and Ireland. Even if they lose, we will be giving them much needed exposure at this level and then when they are drafted to and from the A side, they will fit into the structures no problem.</p>
<p>Use the strongest team this year for the Tri Nations and the England tests in November. Also, stuff the currie cup. As a competition these days, it has lost it&#8217;s appeal. The only reason it ranks so high on everyone&#8217;s list of dram wins, is because it&#8217;s about all our boys are confident of winning anymore&#8230; Use it as a blooding ground for new talent. And lose the small unions who waste time and just make up numbers. WP, Natal, Lions, Bulls, Free State and Griquas or something should compete and have the next generation of players hammering away at each other week after week, before steppiung up to S12 and then Tri Nations etc. The path to being a Springbok should be a hard slog, where you must earn your wings at every level before gaining the ultimate prize.</p>
<p>All this would also help speed transformation along at a far greater pace, because there would be space in the CC teams for the players out there who play second fiddle to the countries top 50 players.</p>
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		<title>By: Cubiczirconia</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5407</link>
		<dc:creator>Cubiczirconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My suggestion was for a new Super 14 format playing each team in your group once with play off after that ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My suggestion was for a new Super 14 format playing each team in your group once with play off after that &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: snoop</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5405</link>
		<dc:creator>snoop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blouskop, 

You needed to ready carefully, we were all discussing the RWC, and resting players etc etc blah blah.

The currie is important, just go read em all again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blouskop, </p>
<p>You needed to ready carefully, we were all discussing the RWC, and resting players etc etc blah blah.</p>
<p>The currie is important, just go read em all again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cubiczirconia</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5371</link>
		<dc:creator>Cubiczirconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last time we actually stood a chance in the Southern Hemisphere tournament was when it was the Super 10 in the early 90&#039;s and all teams did a similar amount of travelling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last time we actually stood a chance in the Southern Hemisphere tournament was when it was the Super 10 in the early 90&#8242;s and all teams did a similar amount of travelling.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blouskop</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5369</link>
		<dc:creator>blouskop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cubiczirconia,
I would love to see that, with home and away matches against every team in your group. Unfortunately the numbskulls at SARU are too dumb to think of such a thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cubiczirconia,<br />
I would love to see that, with home and away matches against every team in your group. Unfortunately the numbskulls at SARU are too dumb to think of such a thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cubiczirconia</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5364</link>
		<dc:creator>Cubiczirconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The administrators hould break the 14 teams into 2 groups of 7. The top 2 teams from each group play semi&#039;s and the winners play the final. They could even introduce a &#039;plate final&#039; for the teams that finish 3 and have a play off]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The administrators hould break the 14 teams into 2 groups of 7. The top 2 teams from each group play semi&#8217;s and the winners play the final. They could even introduce a &#8216;plate final&#8217; for the teams that finish 3 and have a play off</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blouskop</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5362</link>
		<dc:creator>blouskop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PA,
Sure an SA team never won the S12, but I&#039;ve watched some marvellous rugby and a lot of top talent has come through. It is indubitably the premier provincial tournament in the world. Unfortunately our lousy administrators don&#039;t seem to be able to negotiate an equitable format where SA teams compete on an equal footing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PA,<br />
Sure an SA team never won the S12, but I&#8217;ve watched some marvellous rugby and a lot of top talent has come through. It is indubitably the premier provincial tournament in the world. Unfortunately our lousy administrators don&#8217;t seem to be able to negotiate an equitable format where SA teams compete on an equal footing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PissAnt</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5357</link>
		<dc:creator>PissAnt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[cab,

i will definately support a gesture like that, only have three or 4 teams then it will serve a purpose.

blouskop,

what value did the S12 had for SA rugby.

we are consistantly poor and no-one is the wiser at the end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cab,</p>
<p>i will definately support a gesture like that, only have three or 4 teams then it will serve a purpose.</p>
<p>blouskop,</p>
<p>what value did the S12 had for SA rugby.</p>
<p>we are consistantly poor and no-one is the wiser at the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cab</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5354</link>
		<dc:creator>cab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PA, 

fair enough, but a different opinion might be that S12 is as close as one is likely to come to test match rugby without actually experimenting with one&#039;s national team.

Lets face it, at least 2 of the SA sides perenially dont win a game the entire season, wouldn&#039;t it be better to amalgamate these 2 sides into a more powerful team for the following season and use the other team slot to be filled by young players with transformation in mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PA, </p>
<p>fair enough, but a different opinion might be that S12 is as close as one is likely to come to test match rugby without actually experimenting with one&#8217;s national team.</p>
<p>Lets face it, at least 2 of the SA sides perenially dont win a game the entire season, wouldn&#8217;t it be better to amalgamate these 2 sides into a more powerful team for the following season and use the other team slot to be filled by young players with transformation in mind.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blouskop</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5353</link>
		<dc:creator>blouskop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Snoop,
You think the Currie Cup is pointless? Tell that to Rassie,the Cheetahs and their fans.

Pissant,
&quot;i would rather cut the S14&quot;. This is all a bit blinkered. So the Boks would only play internationals on their march to your Holy Grail, the World Cup? How would anyone challenge them for their place in the side while they&#039;re wrapped in cotton wool and choking on moth balls.

I like rugby whether it be NPC, Currie Cup, S14, 3N, 6N. Preventing physical and mental burnout is all about managing the players adequately, that&#039;s all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snoop,<br />
You think the Currie Cup is pointless? Tell that to Rassie,the Cheetahs and their fans.</p>
<p>Pissant,<br />
&#8220;i would rather cut the S14&#8243;. This is all a bit blinkered. So the Boks would only play internationals on their march to your Holy Grail, the World Cup? How would anyone challenge them for their place in the side while they&#8217;re wrapped in cotton wool and choking on moth balls.</p>
<p>I like rugby whether it be NPC, Currie Cup, S14, 3N, 6N. Preventing physical and mental burnout is all about managing the players adequately, that&#8217;s all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BlueBlood</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5327</link>
		<dc:creator>BlueBlood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tackler, I agree with experimentation, I just don&#039;t want to waste my money on a Bok training game.

I pay to watch the Bokke play, not practise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tackler, I agree with experimentation, I just don&#8217;t want to waste my money on a Bok training game.</p>
<p>I pay to watch the Bokke play, not practise.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PissAnt</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5322</link>
		<dc:creator>PissAnt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yeah the best team that never won a WC.

that must suck hey.

4 more years plonker........]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah the best team that never won a WC.</p>
<p>that must suck hey.</p>
<p>4 more years plonker&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TheTackler</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5317</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTackler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;....they must tell us on national tv BEFORE the test that they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care about winning and want to experiment etc....&quot;

You won&#039;t find that sort of loser-mentality in NZ!

The All Black fans expect their rugby coaches to experiment AND win. And, of those two, by far the most important one is the Winning.  

Losing is NEVER an option.

And that applies in EVERY single test they ever play.

And that&#039;s precisely why the AB&#039;s are the world&#039;s best rugby team by far.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.they must tell us on national tv BEFORE the test that they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care about winning and want to experiment etc&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>You won&#8217;t find that sort of loser-mentality in NZ!</p>
<p>The All Black fans expect their rugby coaches to experiment AND win. And, of those two, by far the most important one is the Winning.  </p>
<p>Losing is NEVER an option.</p>
<p>And that applies in EVERY single test they ever play.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s precisely why the AB&#8217;s are the world&#8217;s best rugby team by far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PissAnt</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5311</link>
		<dc:creator>PissAnt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[munki,

i would rather cut the S14 and i believe too much emphasis is placed on it in the first place and that it also has little or no bearing on a players ability to play test rugby.

you have different coaches, different combinations, different conditioning methods, etc.

if you are looking at a scenario which will serve springbok rugby best, an &#039;a&#039; or dirt trackers team is the best way to go.

look at the whole danie scenraio, JW sees him as a flank or loosie, and the bulls setup sees him as a lock, who suffers at the end, the player.

because he never plays where the national coach wants to use him thus wont be in the running when the coach picks his top players for this position.

brent russel all over again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>munki,</p>
<p>i would rather cut the S14 and i believe too much emphasis is placed on it in the first place and that it also has little or no bearing on a players ability to play test rugby.</p>
<p>you have different coaches, different combinations, different conditioning methods, etc.</p>
<p>if you are looking at a scenario which will serve springbok rugby best, an &#8216;a&#8217; or dirt trackers team is the best way to go.</p>
<p>look at the whole danie scenraio, JW sees him as a flank or loosie, and the bulls setup sees him as a lock, who suffers at the end, the player.</p>
<p>because he never plays where the national coach wants to use him thus wont be in the running when the coach picks his top players for this position.</p>
<p>brent russel all over again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cab</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5309</link>
		<dc:creator>cab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[methos not bad, that would be a half decent team for the Spears, decent blend of experience and development.

Would also consider Ramapele, Lobberts and Frolich who should be around 21 next year.  There&#039;s also the leopards no 8, mokeuna, who sounds like he had a great season last year.  The U21 world cup winning inside center signed by the cats.  Also, plenty of 7&#039;s talent and pace in Juries and Demas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>methos not bad, that would be a half decent team for the Spears, decent blend of experience and development.</p>
<p>Would also consider Ramapele, Lobberts and Frolich who should be around 21 next year.  There&#8217;s also the leopards no 8, mokeuna, who sounds like he had a great season last year.  The U21 world cup winning inside center signed by the cats.  Also, plenty of 7&#8242;s talent and pace in Juries and Demas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cubiczirconia</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>Cubiczirconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does it really matter if the Currie Cup is on - we want a Bok team that is feared, to do this we need a core of 30 - 40 players who can play in both hemispheres. The Currie Cup is only interesting in the last 3 weeks when all the boks are back playing - before that most boks are being rested or away on Tri Nations duty. 

The only way we will get there is to develop players in the big leagues ie: Super 14 and dirt tracker Bok games.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it really matter if the Currie Cup is on &#8211; we want a Bok team that is feared, to do this we need a core of 30 &#8211; 40 players who can play in both hemispheres. The Currie Cup is only interesting in the last 3 weeks when all the boks are back playing &#8211; before that most boks are being rested or away on Tri Nations duty. </p>
<p>The only way we will get there is to develop players in the big leagues ie: Super 14 and dirt tracker Bok games.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Methos</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5284</link>
		<dc:creator>Methos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cubiczirconia 

What about the Currie Cup that is on at that time ? 

Cheers]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cubiczirconia </p>
<p>What about the Currie Cup that is on at that time ? </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cubiczirconia</title>
		<link>http://keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5282</link>
		<dc:creator>Cubiczirconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/2006/02/06/shape-up-or-ship-out/#comment-5282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have we not been complaining about the Tri Nations draw that sees the boks away for 5 weeks - surely there is an opportunity there to take 30-32 players and play a dirt trackers side against either Oz A,  All Black A side or even a South Sea Islanders Babarian side - it would ensure that there is a lively competition and generate interest over the 5 week period. Additionally it would mean players like solly, wikus, van den Berg, Conradie, Julie, barry, etc would be match fit come game time and if called apon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have we not been complaining about the Tri Nations draw that sees the boks away for 5 weeks &#8211; surely there is an opportunity there to take 30-32 players and play a dirt trackers side against either Oz A,  All Black A side or even a South Sea Islanders Babarian side &#8211; it would ensure that there is a lively competition and generate interest over the 5 week period. Additionally it would mean players like solly, wikus, van den Berg, Conradie, Julie, barry, etc would be match fit come game time and if called apon.</p>
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