Spears get government backing
7 Feb 2006
The sports ministry will insist on the Southern Spears being admitted to the Super 14 as planned next year.
Deputy Sport and Recreation Minister Gert Oosthuizen told The Herald that he expected that there would be “a raging debate and a whole lot of wrestling around the franchise. The ministry has made it very clear what we wanted and we have not changed our position on that.�
Last Thursday, Saru said after a meeting between the Southern Spears and the five unions that hold a Super 14 franchise that the parties had reached consensus on the issue of automatic promotion and relegation. After a constructive debate, the unions had decided “the question shouldbe further discussed after consultation with the board of directors of SA Rugby�.
At the time of the meeting, Spears’ chief executive Tony McKeever dismissed the decision as “absolute nonsense�.
“We all agreed at the president’s council,” he said. “This [the relegation of one of the five] is not a surprise. SA Rugby has the final decision and must come out in support of the agreement. It has total control of the competition structures.”
49 Comments
7 Feb 2006, 13:21 pm
Is it true that the team who gets relegated has to give the Spears 8 Springboks???
7 Feb 2006, 13:21 pm
wow, now that is a complete surprise! the government actually wants to interfere?!
7 Feb 2006, 13:23 pm
Will Rupert Murdoch accept this?
So in other words the team that gets relegated simply gets renamed to the “Spears”
7 Feb 2006, 13:23 pm
That what is currently being reported … does it really matter. Whichever teams are playing must be the best and they must win every game against the aussie and kiwi teams when they are at home. If we did this then it becomes easier to win when we are on tour because they guys will have confidence and not be playing for self presevation
7 Feb 2006, 13:30 pm
What is the point?
My understanding is that the Spears was created to develop the players (of colour) of the Easten Cape region. What sense does it then make for players of the relegated team to play for the Spears?
7 Feb 2006, 13:35 pm
This has always been obvious to me. No “team” is being relegated it is just the franchise that will be relegated. The top 150 players in the country will be available in some way or another for one of the franchises in the S14. If the Cats get relegated do you really think that January, Pretorious, Wickus, Jantjies etc etc are not going to play S14 in 2007???? The draft will just get bigger….
7 Feb 2006, 13:41 pm
I smell big kuk at the end of the year… Government vs Sarfu – round 1
7 Feb 2006, 13:42 pm
Told you so!!!
Spears will play come 2007
Last December Tony Mckeever said to take players from the relegated team will be like feeding from a rotting carcass…
Guess things have changed over the summer in the SEC
7 Feb 2006, 13:46 pm
Actually whether it is the Spears or Griquas or whoever that will be the team that takes the place of the relegated franchise should make no difference – the point is, there is a red-hot firepoker under the franchises’ asses, which in my opinion is what is needed.
I have a problem with the “how”. What if our teams finish 1-5 (obviously unlikely) on the log – are you going to punish the one that finished 5th? Best is to have a play-off – the 2 teams that finished the lowest along with the Spears on a home and away basis with a bonuspoint structure that rewards tries scored (which is S14 way) not losing by 7 or less.
7 Feb 2006, 13:51 pm
Gert,
I reluctantly agree that Govt should get invloved in sport.
I just wish your involvement could extend beyond the compunding of problems without offering solutions. You guys churn out the slogans but never have any substance.
Sometimes I think you just say things to create a headline (and please your electorate) and that you actually have very little interest in helping rugby move forward.
Everyone knows that we need to – in theory -accomodate the Spears but:
* if they need 8 boks from another s14 team, what is the point of having the Spears in the first place?
* if the Spears are **** and get hammered every week, what does that do for SA Rugby, transformations and the value of the s14 brand?
You need to think before you open your mouth. Pretend you are in a real Ministry like Finance, would you be making such ridiculous statements then? No, because Thabo would kick your arse.
7 Feb 2006, 13:58 pm
mmmmhtaking eight players from the relegated team seems a bit doff – surely the Spears want to build …..especially seen as they will lose players the following year ????
7 Feb 2006, 14:00 pm
Not sure if it true, thats what i heard though. Is it true IG?
7 Feb 2006, 14:15 pm
well, government meddling obviously works in our sport, so we should encourage it I reckon.
they meddle in rugby, and we’re one of the best teams on the planet.
they meddle in our cricket, and although we’ve gotten whipped by the Aussies, we’re still right up there in the test playing leagues and have consistently been ranked in the top 3 or 4 over the last 5 years.
the government does not meddle in footballs affairs, and we’re the laughing stock of african football. we’d be the laughing stock of world football, but we’re just so **** they pity us rather than laugh at us….
how can anyone dispute my “logic” ?
7 Feb 2006, 14:19 pm
spook,
i have explained this on another thread. with this agreement of last year, it was also decided, and agreed to by all involved, that Jake White, not the Spears, Tony McKeever or Pieter de Villiers, can take springboks out of the relegated team, and request to put them in other franchises.
It does not state, or been publicly confirmed or denied that all the Boks must go to the Spears, as I understand it, JW can put those Boks in any other franchise.
This is something positive in my view as stated before. If the Stormers gets relegated, then take Schalla and Joe and put them with the Cheetahs, where they play with their bok partner Juan.
Same for the Sharks where John can play with the majority of his front row buddies.
Or give the Cats backline to the bulls and lets see if we can win the damn S14.
The idea is a good one in my view, it just needs to be applied correctly – which is something I doubt SARu is capable of
7 Feb 2006, 14:19 pm
No Munki you are spot on
SAFA needs some meddling more that a post BVR- SARU
Hope Hoskins can do a complete broom-job, so that the Sports Ministery do not have a real reason to meddle SARU wise again two years.
7 Feb 2006, 14:20 pm
mckeever has in fact stated their stance is the same, they are not interested in renegade players, but they are willing to help JW in the interest of springbok rugby.
7 Feb 2006, 14:22 pm
OO – i have said a few times….its no good getting a new bloke to run SARU every two years – we need a structural change – to move power away from the Union presidents – who for years have been running the show on their whims and personal battles !
7 Feb 2006, 14:22 pm
Bomskok,
Yes I wanted to make your point earlier but had logging on problems which have now been solved .Thanks Ig.
What if the highly unlikely scenario of the SA teams finishing 1 – 5 in the super 14 tournament had to happen. Even a weaker position for the bottom team wouldn’t necessary mean that that particular squad did badly.
As usual the whole sordid business has been managed badly with statements being made setting out a plan that was conceived well before the Spears got their wagon on the road. We now are set for the most gruesome of SA v SA squad games which will have nothing to do with the Super 14 and more related to out and out survival.
A farcical situation awaits us at the end of 2006 where to let the Spears play 2007 Super 14 will be an embarrassment or to pack out the Spears with players from the relegated squad will mean death to that squad and not support the aim of bringing on SEC players for the future.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot….
7 Feb 2006, 14:40 pm
By its very nature, a complex problem, it is difficult to solve and hence beyond the wit of SA rugby, the country’s oolitical institutions and its fan base.
Let me share my wisdom on this and offer a practical solution that takes full cognisance of all hitherto presented arguments.
1. The last placed SA team in the S14 (and hence the team proping up the entire log) should not just be relegated but disbanded.
2. As each year goes by the SA representation in the S14 will shrink by 1, initially replaced by the Spears before new participation from Pacific Island and Argentinian teams.
3. With the sides being disbanded we can phase out the pointless Currie Cup.
4. New teams can be reformed and entered into the English Leagues.
5. The Boks should then relocate to be nearer its player and support bases; in England.
7 Feb 2006, 14:43 pm
no thanks StM.
bokrugby might just end up again 6th in the world.
7 Feb 2006, 14:54 pm
OO – i have said a few times….its no good getting a new bloke to run SARU every two years – we need a structural change – to move power away from the Union presidents – who for years have been running the show on their whims and personal battles !
Comment by Ig : February 7, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Ig that is what I call a thorough broom job- and yes- the presidents must be taken to task- but first
DOWN WITH THE CLOWN
A BETTER GAME FOR ALL!!!
7 Feb 2006, 14:57 pm
OO – Prehasp a better line might be
DOWN WITH THE CLOWNS
7 Feb 2006, 14:58 pm
STM – Share what you smoking please
7 Feb 2006, 15:08 pm
Howzit Oranje, did you recieve my reply to your e-mail?
Anyway I wanted ask you if you know how to order a Rugby jersey from here in Ho9lland and have it sent.
Is it possible?
7 Feb 2006, 15:19 pm
Hehehe CSB
Will help- let me first get Genrul Cronje his Cheetah jersey and then I will help
You would like a Cats one I presume?
7 Feb 2006, 15:20 pm
If Springbok players of the relegated team are placed in other Super 14 outfits, why not place them all in the South African franchise that performed the best ? Maybe we can win the Super 14 after all…
The whole setup seems daft and not well thought out. Litigation on the horizon. Spears vs other Unions. Unions vs SA Rugby. SA Rugby vs Government.
Just another normal day in South African Rugby…
7 Feb 2006, 15:21 pm
For once, the Sports Ministry is doing the right thing. It’s obvious that the 3 major unions were playing a fraudulent game all along – they agreed to the “mandatory relegation” arrangement in order to get themselves entrenched in the competition, with the full intention of withdrawing their agreement once they had secured their places, and relying on the power of inertia, the status quo and the outrage of entrenched interests to keep them there after 2006.
7 Feb 2006, 15:21 pm
Yes IG
Chuck all the conivers
and their left-over cronies as well
BVR is not the only one I agree- but for now he is the most powerful one- so that is where the Broom Job must start
A BETTER GAME FOR ALL
DOWN WITH THE CLOWN(S)
7 Feb 2006, 15:21 pm
Dare I say it, yea a Cats jersey would be good Thanks alot OO really appreciate it.
7 Feb 2006, 15:22 pm
Pierre I agree with your point
Just highlight the three big unions for me pls
7 Feb 2006, 15:24 pm
True Ig,
As I have said months ago, blame Oberholzer for this and that, but give credit in forming SA Rugby PTY LTD and removing power from these clowns. I see Hoskins wants to form the SA Rugby company again – marvelous if he could get it right!
7 Feb 2006, 15:24 pm
Cool CSB
I think I will start up a CyberShoppe
Oranje Orakels Jersey Dispatch
You gonna send me some cookies?
7 Feb 2006, 15:30 pm
Oranje, that was a typo. I meant 5, not 3.
7 Feb 2006, 15:31 pm
I can send you some cookies and some
fungi too
7 Feb 2006, 15:34 pm
Brr
Maybe customs will object about the fungi- might get food & mouth disease
7 Feb 2006, 15:45 pm
Would it not be better to have competition with ‘the Spears’ and other countries like Zim, Namibia, Botswana, Swaziland taking part. This would also develope rugby in the region with a later possiblity of those countries also coming into the Super 14 making the NZ and OZ teams also spending a longer time on the road – just a thought.
7 Feb 2006, 15:47 pm
Good afternoon all!
Remember last year when one of the NewZealand ‘Bloggers’ wrote that they arn’t worried about the s12 or tri nations this year because everyone was hyped up about the Lions tour. Why can’t we just take a feather out of their cap and approach these competitions in the same way for now. We (Springboks) have a World cup to prepare for. Let’s for once put the national team first. I hope the unions and SARU get behin Jake and the whole preperation team and do whats best for the Boks. Come January next year and no one will be talking about s14 but rather how many fit and conditioned Boks we have. If this years fitness tests are anythin to go by we will be having the Spears play as our national team. The Safa’s have allot to prove this world cup after our disgraceful performance in 2003. I hope the powers that be have this in mind when they make their decisions for the future of S.A Rugby.
7 Feb 2006, 16:02 pm
Spears – The new Bafana Bafana of SA rugby……………………………………………………..actually, Cats and Sharks and a lesser extend Stormers have been almost as brilliant as Bafana Bafoona.
When will Minister Useless do something about our soccer. Surely with 2010 this must be a priority?
7 Feb 2006, 16:12 pm
bomskok – if anything i would say blame BVR – Olbeholzer at least set us in the right direction by removing the power from the unions !!!!
7 Feb 2006, 17:17 pm
The anc or what Simon calls the ‘Government’ was not the decisive factor in that farce of the Spears, it was the ONLY factor from Day One.
It amazed me that the average rugby follower person in SA missed it, astonishing.
The Super14 revenue structure is such that the lowly teams on the log gets very little apart from travelling and hosting expenses. Rupert Murdoch saw to it very early at the Super 10 inception in 1993.
7 Feb 2006, 17:37 pm
The CC is going to be even bigger **** – remember that Spears are not entrenched there so if they end last they go down…
EP Border and SWD all would love to go up next year so why would they give their best players to the Spears in CC if they compete for the promotion stakes…
Imagine the Spears in the relegated competition of the cc but in the S14…
7 Feb 2006, 17:47 pm
The Cats will be belted by all and sundry for another year and Ellis Park wil be a 1/4 full for most games like always … just like the last 5-10 years and they will be relegated. especially has they do not have Pretorious who features in any half decent performance they have had.
Then the decent Cats players will make themselves available to the Bulls for 2007 because they don’t have to move and finally we will have a super strong side that actually can compete with a hope of winning.
Excess players will move to other franchises and bolster their sides.
And how many of us said 18 months ago that the Bulls and the Cats should merge and give both the CU and the SEC a Super 14 side combining both a development aspect and building a strong side that could play at Ellis Park and Loftus.
Now that’s building the game … but it’s far too progressive for the average SA rugby administrator and fan.
7 Feb 2006, 18:04 pm
That would need the administrators to think outrside the box … but we all know that to be an administrator you are not allowed to think outside the box, its all about secret handshakes
7 Feb 2006, 18:25 pm
CSB
If you stand on one side of Holland can you see clear to the other side?
7 Feb 2006, 21:20 pm
Dawn on a clear day you can see as far as Germany, I think…
8 Feb 2006, 00:17 am
If the team that is relegated must give 8 Springboks to the Spears (assuming they have 8 Springboks), then the whole concept of developing the Spears side is a waste of time.
8 Feb 2006, 07:02 am
It’s a shambles, of course. A complete joke.
But who’s really surprised?
It was a bad joke right from Day One, if not sooner.
Watch the Spares come along to have all the records rewritten — first side to lose by 200 points to nil, etc.
8 Feb 2006, 08:23 am
This is a sensible post
The Cats will be belted by all and sundry for another year and Ellis Park wil be a 1/4 full for most games like always … just like the last 5-10 years and they will be relegated. especially has they do not have Pretorious who features in any half decent performance they have had.
Then the decent Cats players will make themselves available to the Bulls for 2007 because they don’t have to move and finally we will have a super strong side that actually can compete with a hope of winning.
Excess players will move to other franchises and bolster their sides.
And how many of us said 18 months ago that the Bulls and the Cats should merge and give both the CU and the SEC a Super 14 side combining both a development aspect and building a strong side that could play at Ellis Park and Loftus.
Now that’s building the game … but it’s far too progressive for the average SA rugby administrator and fan.
Comment by kevin w : February 7, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
8 Feb 2006, 09:16 am
Govt involvement in sport is a NO! NO! How can the Spears go forward as they are and get hammered week in & week out. How does this develope the black players — standing behind the poles every 5 minutes is going to do squat for their confidence.
Interesting is it not — President Mbeki lashes out at Bafanana for losing but when the SPEARS LOSE & LOSE THEY WILL unless the “bookies” get in on the act I wonder what our PRESIDENT will say. “RIGHT first time – NOTHING.
SARFU stuffed up from the very beginning with this system & it coming back to bite them big time.
If the SHARKS go down, then they will play NORHTERN HEMISPHERE sides to keep the turnstiles clicking, they wont release contracted players to SPEARS & Spears have already said they dont want any players,”it will be like feeding on carcasses” they will develope their own.
Now picture this — the Spears come last in the CURRIE CUP OR NEAR THE BOTTOM — in steps SANZAR
& says – NO GO, this side is not good enough for the S14.
What influence will our Govt have on MURDOCK? — NOTHING
Going to be an interesting year.
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