Finding the lost generation
9 Mar 2006
Keo, in his News24 Column, writes that there is a South African team of players overseas that would strengthen our rugby.
It is time to put a system in place that lures these players back and ensures our players in their late 20s don’t do a runner.
In chatting to Bok coach Jake White earlier in the week, he raised the point that we, in South African rugby, have an obsession with younger players, to the detriment of quality older players.
He said it was vital to show the player in his late 20s that he had a future in South African rugby, not necessarily at Test level but in the Super 14.
White argued that the depth of South African rugby was being challenged by the ease with which SA players packed their bags and left when they believed they could not make the national team. He believes it is because there is no succession plan at provincial or regional level.
White, who many thought would discard all that was old for Under-21 players when he became Bok coach, said South Africa’s success at national and Super 14 level would be measured by an ability to marry old and new.
He did so with his Bok team, bringing back a veteran like Percy Montgomery and introducing some of the best Under-21 players.
The Bok coach continues to look at experienced overseas-based SA players and won’t hesitate to pick them if their form warrants it. He is already talking of bringing back Shaun Sowerby and has confirmed he has offered Andre Snyman a contract.
But it is not with the Bok squad where the focus should be. Just like New Zealand felt the drain of their players to Japan and Europe in the Super 12 a couple of years ago, South Africa is feeling it in the Super 14.
While our teams languish near the bottom of the table, having again introduced a new crop of youngsters, the older campaigners continue to impress for foreign clubs.
White, to add substance to his theory, challenged me to pick a starting XV from overseas of players who were still eligible to play for the Boks, but more importantly who would be of great value in the Super 14.
So here goes
This is a team I’d back to be as competitive as any of the current SA franchises.
15. Thinus Delport (Worcester), 14. Shaun Payne (Munster), 13. Andre Snyman (Leeds), 12. Trevor Halstead (Munster), 11. Breyton Paulse (Clermont), 10. Jaco van der Westhuyzen (Japan), 9. Norman Jordaan (France), 8. Shaun Sowerby (Stade Francais), 7. Warren Brosnihan (Calvisano), 6. Jake Boer (Gloucester), 5. Selborne Boome (until recently Northampton), 4. Hottie Louw (Llanelli), 3. Cobus Visagie (Saracens), 2. Danie Coetzee (London Irish), 1. Daan Human (Toulouse).
Even more disconcerting is how many South African players have gone onto play international rugby for other countries in the last five years.
Here’s some of the names: Stuart Abbott (England), Geoff Appleford (England), Matt Stevens (England), Michael Horak (England), Clyde Rathbone (Australia), Dan Vickerman (Australia), Carlo del Fava (Italy), Roland de Marigny (Italy), Gert Peens (Italy), Pieter de Villiers (France), Brian Liebenberg (France), Stephen Hall (France), Hal Luscombe (Wales) and Roland Reid (Scotland)
You take the above 13 players, add them to the overseas-based XV selected and you have 28 players not available to South Africa’s Super 14 challenge.
That’s a squad on its own. Further to that take the other 25 players with Super 12 experience who are playing overseas and you have 45 players we’ve lost in the last five years.
No matter how good your youth systems and no matter how much natural talent produced, South Africa cannot afford to lose 45 players and still believe they can field five competitive regional franchises in Super 14.
It is time we looked at what we’ve lost, instead of always focusing on what we can gain from the younger generation. There is a lost generation excelling in Europe and many of them should be excelling in South Africa.
122 Comments
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9 Mar 2006, 17:37 pm
Shosholoza, the funny thing is that we still kick their arses in the U19 and U21 tournaments.
9 Mar 2006, 17:37 pm
pierre,
I think he is speaking about the Chigago Bulls. You mentioned something about them earlier. Or the Dallas cowboys and Nigerians. think it was you, I’m not gonna scroll up now.
9 Mar 2006, 17:42 pm
Pierre,
With all respect, and no racism intended rugby is about passion. You must have a passion for the game. It is not something that can be taught or forced down on you. That goes for any sport.
thats why there will always be 2 to 3 black players who will CONTEST on merit for a place in the Bok squad.
Our younsters still play with passion and pride thats why we kick their arses despite their size.
9 Mar 2006, 17:45 pm
Guys
I am on th east coast, 10am SA time is 3am east coast time, that is why I left.
9 Mar 2006, 17:50 pm
bloubulsd,
verduidelik asb. Ek is nou so deurmekaar soos ‘n stormer op Loftus.
9 Mar 2006, 17:53 pm
Delek, flair my ***. Carel du Plessis got fired twice for flair.
The Bulls are winning with a bunch of ‘thick dutchmen’ running it and playing strong rugby.
Let the Stormers play with flair, we will klap you 75-14 every single time!
9 Mar 2006, 17:57 pm
I live in the USA, in San Diego, 9/10 hours behind SA depending on daylight savings tim ein USA.
I am however in New York for business which at the moment is 6 hours bhind SA. It is 11am in the morning here, I wrote the 1st email in the thread when I went to bed 11 hours ago, you guys read it when you all got to work 7-9 hours ago.
9 Mar 2006, 18:09 pm
Bloubulsd,
askies man dit is nou 18h00 aan die einde van harde dag se werk. ek neem aan toe jy sê jy het ge-”left” is dit die site nie die land nie.
Lekker dag verder ek gaan nou rustig sit met ‘n whiskey en ontspan.
9 Mar 2006, 18:11 pm
koning, ek is besig met werk tot 3pm dan hou ek langnaweek in New York City.
Sien uit na die naweek se rugby, hopelik het die hotel goeie internet dan kan ek die games op Kuduclub.com kyk.
9 Mar 2006, 18:12 pm
ek het die land en die site ge-’left’:)
9 Mar 2006, 18:26 pm
Bloubulsd,
Now Gary knows it was you posting at 4am!!!
9 Mar 2006, 18:30 pm
Onlooker
post 98 – yes this year the AB lost all the Tri-nations games – the first team to do this and when SA won it. However the tables turned the next year and SA lost all their games.
9 Mar 2006, 22:40 pm
Frenchie,Gareth Wright left SA 2 weeks ago – he can only have played one game in France!!!
10 Mar 2006, 01:56 am
“Let’s not forgot that the 1st time the All Blacks won a series in SA was in ‘96 – after the Polynesian influence (and rugby gone pro).”
More significant than the polynesians making the AB team in the winning of a series in SA was the abandoning of the use of home-town referees. Nobody in SA ought to be under any illusions as to the influence of biased South African whistlers like Gert Bezuidenhout and Max Baise in the Boks retaining their home record for as long as they did.
(NZ fielded brown players against SA in SA as early as the 1970 tour — remember Sid Going, Bryan Williams, Blair Furlong etc?)
10 Mar 2006, 02:09 am
“Tackler, no-one is “objectingâ€? to Tongans, Fijians and Samoans playing for NZ, especially the ones who were born on your ****** freezing little island village. All I’m saying is that you wouldn’t be as good as you are without them…”
Well, NZ selectors pick their side on PURE MERIT, and so why should they NOT be selected for the AB’s if they are good enough? Of course, if you leave your better players out of the side because of their race or ethnic background, you ARE going to weaken your side. THat’s a given.
South Africa ought to know from first-hand experience about just how much damage is being done by having race-quota players rather than merit selections!
So my advice to you is to stop griping and whining about being regularly whipped by a strictly merit-selected All Black side. Perhaps the way for SA rugby to improve and match the AB’s is to field national teams on nothing but pure merit as well?
10 Mar 2006, 07:34 am
TheTackler
Right you are about the refereeing back then.
I have very clear memories of getting up in the middle of the night to watch the AB’s tests against SA.
1976 tour. Eleven years old. Mum and dad and I in front of the telly. Fire burning. Cup of tea and toast in hand. Magic memories!!!
Pitches like concrete to play on – and the opposition even harder!!! Moana Van Heerden, Morne Du Plessis… Hard, hard men!!!
Even as a kid I still have vivid recollections of the hardest guy of them all to beat. I thought his name was Fersaydenhoot.
Scary that your post took me back thirty years in a flash!!!
Three cheers for neutral referees/umpires. I’ll even take the apparant lack of ANY reffing ability (as is sometimes on display these days) over what we had back then.
Sometimes no eyes are better than one eye!!!
10 Mar 2006, 08:16 am
Nice article.
I am not a huge cricket fan, but heard on the radio this morning, a Bloemfontein born chap took a brilliant catch for the Black Caps cricket side.
Anybody know anything about this guy ?
10 Mar 2006, 10:14 am
Tackler, ease off on the righteous indignation for a minute and read what I said. At what point did I say that Polynesians should not be selected for the All Blacks? Answer: I didn’t. You are clearly very sensitive about this issue, my ******** pal who bends over backwards (and probably forwards too) to ingratiate himself with the Kiwis. My point was not SA, like NZ, should try to secure itself a broader player base. Not that NZ shouldn’t be allowed to pick its non-native players.
Also, I can’t agree with your assertion that Springbok rugby has suffered a nett loss because of racial targets. Would you place Breyton Paulse, Deon Kayser, Bryan Habana, Bolla Conradie, Ricky Januarie, Solly Tyibilika and Gurthro Steenkamp in the asset or liability column? What about Stefan Terblanche, Jorrie Muller, Marco Wentzel, Daan Human, Louis Koen and Thinus Delport? Sure there have been some crappy black players too; but my point is that in the days when there was a “quota” of 14 or 15 white players, there were also some astoundingly poor players who somehow made the team. The problem with you, Tackler, and your racist friends, is that you won’t be prepared to accept that “quotas” are gone until every SA team fields 15 white players again. Until then, you will merrily piss all over the merits of even brilliant players like Habana and Steenkamp by labelling them as “quotas”.
10 Mar 2006, 11:11 am
interesting article and don’t forget andre vos.
agree with Jake, its fine to plan for the future, but one should not fall into the habity of continualkly trying to peak for the future, rather than fielding one’s best team at any point in time.
10 Mar 2006, 12:26 pm
No white boy EVER makes the Bok side on a race quota. Some of them may be worse than useless, but the quota system can’t be blamed for that because it doesn’t apply.
Race quotas only go to the brown and black boys. And none of them will ever genuinely know for 100% sure that they are in the side on merit or on quota, because nobody will ever divulge that to them. It will hurt their feelings to know the truth.
10 Mar 2006, 15:22 pm
Tackler, you raise some interesting points every now and then- obviously inadvertantly, because your lack of ability to view the wider picture and take other views on board is from an obvious lack of imagination combined with probable molestation by bigger boys at school which you no doubt enjoyed. If you want to continuously denigrate our rugby then do it from a position of reflective thought and intelligence, not from pulling ideas out of your arse, which has probably seen enough action through your formative years anyway. Please give it a rest before you hurt yourself.
10 Mar 2006, 17:08 pm
At the end of the day it does not matter who has been chosen for the Springbok / Super 14 squads because they have obviously done something to impress somebody and whether that was to know the secret handshake, wear the right coloured ‘jock strap’ or actually be able to kick an up and under ala werner ‘good greef’ … however it does not mean that they are actually a good player.
As for the lost generation, if I was a rugby player I would still head overseas because although Jake has introduced some consistency in selection, the administrators in SA are useless and are only out to ensure that they stay in office.
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