White wants direction; not a national director
14 Mar 2006
Springbok coach Jake White believes the appointment of a national director of rugby will do nothing to improve the situation in South Africa.
While most, including me, are screaming that such an appointment be made, White said he would prefer to operate free of any director as he felt it would only complicate and not simplify any national coaching position.
“People are looking for answers in the wrong place. The answer to our problems is not the appointment of a national director of rugby. The answer is consistency in coaching appointments at a national and regional level and a succession plan for each person, agreed to by the board of the SA Rugby Union,” White told Keo.co.za, adding that he had reservations about a national director of rugby appointment because of all the politics involved in creating such a position.
“The less interference to the Bok side the better,” said White. “And I think a national director of rugby would want the Springboks to fall under his job responsibility. I don’t think this is right. We currently have a general manager of national teams in former Stormers and Welsh international Andy Marinos. He does a fantastic job, but his focus is very much on the administration around the team. He has nothing to do with the rugby side of it and that is the way I, as a national coach, would prefer it. I know others disagree.”
White said that it was outrageous to be calling for the heads of Kobus van der Merwe and Frans Ludeke, to name but two of the country’s five regional coaches.
“Take Frans as an example. He has lost four of his first five matches, but the Cats have lost something like 44 of their last 49 matches in the competition. In this time they used Frans, Tim Lane and a coaching trio of Chester Williams, Rassie Erasmus and Brendan Venter. Getting rid of the coach isn’t the answer.
“Where’s Chester? So much went into his development in 2004 and 2005 and now he hasn’t got a team to coach. Where’s Brendan? He was very good at London Irish but he’s not coaching? What would have happened to Rassie if the Cheetahs were not a new entity in the Super 14? Would he also have been sacked.
“In Cape Town it is the same. What good would it do to be sacking Kobus (van der Merwe) and Gary (Gold) after one season? It is short-term knee-jerk reaction. As I said in an earlier interview, if there was a rugby blueprint that embraced the national coach and the five regional coaches and put in place a three-to-five year plan and succession plan, we wouldn’t have coaches coaching from one week to the next wondering if this week is their last. It is not right.”
White also said it was crucial that the top 140 players were identified between himself and the five regional coaches.
“We don’t have a draft system. We don’t have proper identification. There are some very good players running around in the Vodacom Cup that could be adding value to our Super 14 squads. But no one is talking. No one is acting on what is a crisis situation for us. The first five weeks of the competition have not been good to us. All the coaches and myself need to be discussing how it can be improved, not on a casual basis, but in a constructive way to find solutions.”
White said it distressed him that his All Blacks counterpart Graham Henry (and his fellow national coaches) were spending a day a week with the five New Zealand franchises. At this Henry interacts with the regional coach and those players in the national frame. It also gives him a chance to see first hand players outside of the national framework.
“We simply don’t have that kind of working relationship in our rugby,” said White. “I’ve popped in at the odd union for a casual visit. Earlier in the year I indicated that I would like to play a more active role during the competition, in terms of interacting with the coaches and adding value to their campaigns. Nothing materialised.”
White, after five weeks of Super 14 woe, is frustrated. He believes he could be making a difference. Instead he is far removed from the South African Super 14 scene.
“Now is the time to fix it,” he says. “We can’t keep on plodding along like this.”
265 Comments
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14 Mar 2006, 12:37 pm
Tacitus,
yeah but there are different role, Burger is able to perform fetching and ball carrying, whereas the Bulls dont have a fetcher with Burger’s ability.
Jacques Conje, Wannenburg and Rossouw are all ball carriers, very effective but dont have the speed to the breakdown or the wrestling mongrel required. They are one-off runners that are essetnial in getting go-forward momentum. Very different roles. They are meant to be physical and rightfully so, but these are different players to Burger.
He is a fetcher who has a workrate second to none and gets through tackle after tackle, whereas Cronje, Rossouw and Wannenburg are all big powerful impact carrier. You need both. I’m sorry, but you okes are comparing apples to oranges and miss the notion of a balanced backrow.
14 Mar 2006, 12:40 pm
Cab Danie Rossouw … ball carrier???
Never!
14 Mar 2006, 12:41 pm
Cab, Schalla is kak and a flash in the pan, already the other teams have worked him out and now he is by no means as effective as when he “burst” on the scene Stiff arm tackles, dropping the ball playing on the ground and as dumb as they come.The Stormers supporters have a lot to say about the dumb dutchmen from the north, but look at your own team. He stands out because of his bleached hair period. Same hype as Bobby Boy and will end up the same
14 Mar 2006, 12:42 pm
Fire Jake, hire Frans…
14 Mar 2006, 12:42 pm
Cab
8 P3
7 Juan Smith
6 Luke
4 Bakkies
5 Victor
1 Gurthro
2 Botha
3 Du Plessis
14 Mar 2006, 12:44 pm
Spank me, spot-on mate.
I’ve always wondered how he is able to run and shake his head like that. I’ve also made tha statment alot that he is very “busy” but actully don’t achieve much.
However i will still include him in my team. A guy that I rate is Justin Melck. The Bulls must invest in this guy, soon.
I think a National director is a good thing, only if it is to keep Jake’s mouth shut to prevent him of making an arsehole of himself.
White don’t like the bulls and that is no secret. I can remember clearly how he critisize the bulls for the injury of P3 and Bakkies after the s12. He said they weren’t managed properly. and played with injuries. The bulls sent him statistics of actual minutes played and medical reports. In fact Eddie Andrwes had more game time, but JW never had a problem with his injury or crirised the stormers.
this is only one example I can quickly think of, there are many more.
14 Mar 2006, 12:44 pm
Mike H
Provincialism goes a lot further than merely being attributable to the isolation years.
The unique problem in S.A. is our tremendous diversity. Therefore, there are actual cultural differences between the various regions and cities that go far deeper than that which you would find between Melbourne and Sydney.
I would liken us more to the United States of America, where southerners and norhterners are as radically different as the two sides in their presidential elections.
The difference though, is that America has a proud and unified history, going back two hundred years.
We don’t have that. So it is far easier for a guy from Pretoria to identify with his local team, playing his local music and speaking his own language, than it is for him to feel as one with his national team, which merely represents geographical lines on a map.
So there you go. A quick lesson in the psychology behind the fanatical provincial loyalty in our wonderful country.
14 Mar 2006, 12:44 pm
i would like to see ruan pienaar put on bok jersey
14 Mar 2006, 12:46 pm
Let’s wait to see what the Bulls do Down Under before we make them all Bokke. Only when they can win abroad on a consistent basis can they make any claims to be first choices for Bok honors. White is also looking for players that can tour well and this is where the Bulls, Cats and Cheetah players fall off the plane.
14 Mar 2006, 12:46 pm
My bok team to take the WC
15: King Jorrie
14: Myself
13: Richard Bands (look what he did to the king..)
12: Gus the Gasman
11: My mate Jannie (frackin vinnig!)
10: Tiaan Snyman
9: Niel de Kock
8: Flou Joe
7: That oke from the Falcons
6: That oke from the Leapords
Tight 5: Stormers 5 will do
WC glory here we come!
14 Mar 2006, 12:46 pm
capebull,
thats a silly statement, it is YOUR opinion that he has gone off the boil, but if you’re not prepared to argue your assetions, then there really is no point in having a discussion (sic).
Murph,
yes Juan is playing well, the boks seems to be slightly different in playing a less powerful (more mobile) blindside in Juan and a more robust fetcher in Schalk. It might not totally fit with the modern roles of NZ and Aus flanker play, but it is balanced, more so than the bulls.
Dont get me wrong tho, i agree that the boks need to have a powerful ball-carrier 8th man, i.e. either Cronje or Rossouw, rather than JvN especially in the NH where the world cup is to be held. But thats a personal opinion, many think JvN’s skills and speed offer far more, especially on firmer surfaces, also valid.
14 Mar 2006, 12:47 pm
Grrrr fire JAke and hire Frans – I say drop JDV and select Gus Theron in his place
14 Mar 2006, 12:47 pm
Capebull
My Bok loose trio would look like this, me think this would be the best combo:
6: Burger
7: Smith/Van Heerden
8: Wannenburg
6 – to create/get turnovers
7 – Tackling & getting across gain line
8 – Defensive/ attacking player
14 Mar 2006, 12:48 pm
Katsesnor
At least the Bulls win at home. The majority of Jakes squad is booed by their own supporters. Go figure
14 Mar 2006, 12:48 pm
Bigg
I like the way you look at things, agree!
14 Mar 2006, 12:48 pm
Tacitus,
Is there something in the Tswane water supply that makes the locals so highly paranoid and insular????
14 Mar 2006, 12:49 pm
Schalla has not been half the players he was last year or the year before – and for that fact neither was jacques cronje.
I blame the coaches of the stormers for schalla’s demise! Schalk is an openside flanker, not a ball carrier or eightman, he is a six. That’s the position that won him the player of the year award.
Only thing he does any good now, is to look like a ” afkop hoender” by running around falling all over the place and contributing nothing to the game! At seven , he is bloody useless.
This is once again a case of a player being played out of position at domestic level and international level.
On current form there are a lot of players in SA better than Schalk ie. Wikus van Heerden, Pedrie Wanneburg, AJ Venter – all of them no 7 flankers. Scalk is the best 6 in the country – play him there!
14 Mar 2006, 12:52 pm
Fuzzybear,
Did you see when Rossouw came on against England the last time we played in Twickenham? There was an immediate difference. The oke is a collosus. He also is key to the bulls pack when they want to steamroller.
When one plays against powerful atritionally-minded packs like England and Ireland, you need to take them head on. Selecting players like JvN in those conditions is a good recipe for seeing one’s pack dismantled, unless the tight 5 is dominant. Men vs Boys. It was horrendous.
14 Mar 2006, 12:53 pm
Xkreni-WP,
The Bulls win at home because the have a psychologist who works out the music for the game. No visitor can survive 80 mins of Ge Korsten and Steve Hofmeyer.
14 Mar 2006, 12:54 pm
Grrrr …,
May I please be the “Cape Town based” boot- polisher for your team … please, pretty please?
But then again, the Bulls supporters may complain that they have a BIGGER, MORE MUSCULAR boot-polisher in Tswane
14 Mar 2006, 12:54 pm
Whats happend to Geo Cronje??? I wonder if SA will ever have a all white team again…
14 Mar 2006, 12:54 pm
Bulls been mentioned cos they the better team at end of day. But why does the stormers get mentioned cos they got players that dont deserve to be springboks. It time some of these guys face the music….there is lots of other players that play much better from sharks…cheatahs and yes even the cats. Cats gonna play better when they home.
I dont know why stormer supporters cant see it … your team is kak … your players is kak they dont deserve the bok jersey just cos they stormers
14 Mar 2006, 12:55 pm
cab – while i agree to a certain extent with Rossouw – his hands worry me – he has a habit of losing the ball in contact.
14 Mar 2006, 12:55 pm
Drunkmonkey
Why don’t you buy you a Bok Jersey then you can see yourself put on a Bok jeysey by looking in the mirror!
14 Mar 2006, 12:55 pm
Cab (29),
Sorry to say but Schalk has no impact on the game. Im a massive Schalk supporter but he’s totaly off the boil. Look at his tackling – pathetic is the word!! He’s a loosie – not a wing – he’s suppose to dominate – he’s more on the floor than his feet.
Maybe he needs more support from his tight 5 but even on the yearend tour in ’05 he was but a shaddow of the player we knew.
Is he a certaincy in the best 15 in SA – not to my mind.
What’s wrong with him – i’m not sure.
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
seranger
i rather have my bulls one
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
Katsesnor
re comm 10, you can bring them on, the whole cheetah team and replay under same circumstances and the BULLS will be victorious!!!
SloJo- you really are “slow up there” if you think like that!
I’d prefer the setup stay as it is. Let him build around the WP his Springbok team. The stigma surrounding them as a loosing team is bad enough. To be perfectly honest, I take much more pride in the Bulls team as in the Springboks.
I know it is wrong and whatever, but I don’t give a f**k. I am far more passionate about my Bulls team than I will ever be about the ‘Boks!
Wrong hey, but again, what the f**k??!! Maybe one day in future I will feel otherwise again…. So Jake, please stay where you are and leave the Bulls to Heyneke- Thank You!!
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
I’ve heard Geo is the coach of the Orania Laer Skool U11 team …
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
stinkie
Jy is verkeerd Schalk was sy hele lewe 8 of 7 , ek het hom sien speel toe hy 13 was. Hy was toe al ‘n bal draer. Almal wou Jake skiet toe hy Burger ‘n 6 wou maak. Burger is huidiglik van form af. Eintlik al van laas jaar af. Ons speel gewoonlik met 35% van die Bal in toetse. Indien Burger so fantasties is vra ek waarom net 35% van balle ???
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
agree with Stinkvinger, Scalla has looked less effective cos he is a 6, problem is they have watson who is another light player, its simply unfeasible to play watson at blindside and as such Schalla has been shifted out of his preferred role to accomadate.
Schalk is a 6, not a 7.
My starting backrow this year:
6. Schalk
7. AJ
8. Juan
14 Mar 2006, 12:58 pm
Lads
the other problem with our loosies is as runners they run in standing straight up !
need to get lower !
14 Mar 2006, 12:59 pm
Danie Rossouw is a lock & nothing else.
In the Bok setup I would play Victor & Bakkies with Danie replacing Bakkies at half time.
Re JW
He is a brilliant coach, cant take it away from him. Now after saying that: the one negative he’s got, he must start selecting players on form & not what they have done in the past for him & SA, it’s the only way forward.
14 Mar 2006, 13:01 pm
Bloem,
If players are selected on current form only, how do you ensure consistency in the national team?
All players form varies over time … and this includes quality players
14 Mar 2006, 13:04 pm
Jake is a good man and a good coach, but all this wingeing in the media is not going to help his cause with any of the Provincial coaches.
As Staal commented earlier, The provincial coaches have a job to do, If Jake can find a way of fitting his agenda in with that, then slack can be given on all sides.
Jake must some day come to realise that the pool of talent he has to choose from comes from the home unions, their talent spotted by them, been picked by them and coached by them. His main job therefore is merely to integrate these players into a single team.
PR skills are more important in a national team than it is for any other as provincialism takes a huge toll on their ability to gel. Therefore if Jake is unable to do this, he must employ someone with the necessary qualifications.
In the cause of the Boks, Jake must view all the unions as equalls, and from there choose the best players this country as a whole has to offer, without blinkers, without bias or feeling. In this way our rugby will go forward. I feel that certain Boks at the moment(I mention no names) feel they are in a comfort zone, know they’ll be picked no matter what. This thought Jake must dispel immediately or the quality of our bok team will deteriorate rapidly. It stands to reason, that a player who knows he is assured of a place is not going to lay his body on the line for any other competition, unless, of course, his provincial coach knows how to get the best out of him regardless.
14 Mar 2006, 13:06 pm
Saffa
I agree, but how will new players get selected?
If a player is not on form give him a break.
Scalk is a good exhample. Drop him from the Bok squad, or bench him for a couple of games. At the moment van Heerden, Wannenburg & Juan are playing better.
Maybe that what he need to get the spark back. No player must assured of a place in the Bok squad, it will keep them on their toes
14 Mar 2006, 13:06 pm
Ig,
agree that Rossouw’s hands can be a liability and both he and Cronje are also guilty of going to sleep, ala when the aussies klapped us in Sydney last year, but when they actually come out with intent, very useful options (especially against domkrag oppo packs), but reckon their role is not to toss it around (Lyons, Palu, Tanake, Corrie, Worsely, White, Collins), they are there to do the hard yards and create the sort of forward momentum which is key to the bulls success.
Staal,
perhaps but its because shalk is not a ball carrier, he has that ability, but he is primrily a fetcher, first at the breakdown, competing for everything that moves. Anyway, he’s sheer effort lifts the team, i reckon the boks would get smashed without him, he is the real difference to the strauli era.
14 Mar 2006, 13:06 pm
Guys, what I fear most is the return of Allistair Coetzee to coach the Bok backline. We can argue for years about what franchise should provide how many players to the Bok team, but when such a coach is in the mix we are in for serious pain.
14 Mar 2006, 13:08 pm
capebull,
Burger best season where he was voted IRB player of the year was at 6, its also the same season where the stormers reached the semifinal of the S12.
Ya, you okes are also mal, wanting to drop Schalk, ffs just when we have regained some respectability. Genius.
14 Mar 2006, 13:08 pm
Capebull,
Het nie dit geweet nie, maar in daardie geval sal ek se dat hy sy hele lewe verkeerd gespeel het, Schalk is ‘n 6. Die lyne wat is 6 hardloop pas hom net beter, hy kom nie uit waar hy moet as ‘n 7 nie!
1 persoon uit 15 ouens kan nie verantwoordelik gehou word vir die wen van balbesit nie! Dit moet ‘n spanpoging wees! As ons ‘n voories afrigter gehad het wat die span coach na hulle sterkpunte toe, dan sou die besit helaml iets anders gewees het. Kom ek noem ‘n voorbeeld…
Jy sit met ‘n pak spelers wat basies uit Bulle ne Cheetas bestaan (die grootse gros). Wat is die 2 spanne se sterk punte? Dryfmaal en nogmaals dryfmaal. Gert Smal hou nie van die dryfmaal nie, daarom het die bokke dit laasjaar nooit gedoen nie? Hoekom kies jy die spelers as jy nie hulle sterkpunte gebruik nie?
As ons laasjaar meer gedryf het, het die besit skielik geklim van 35% na amper 55% dan was die hele jaar moontlik ook ‘n ander prentjie en was die drie nasie beker seker ook nog steeds by ons.
A good one to watch for at no 6 is the young Pierre Spies from the Bulls. He is lightning quick and runs brilliant lines ie. does not try to run through an oppnent, but rather runs on his arm, which creates the halp gap. He is gonna be a good one for the future!
14 Mar 2006, 13:14 pm
Jake White didn’t believe in Schalk and Luke as a combination – and thus left Luke in the cold. This current Stormers combo isn’t working – proving White correct – and Schalk should get his 6 back. It’s either Schalk or Luke but not both.
14 Mar 2006, 13:15 pm
Katsesnor,
ja die bulle het in die “verlede” nie goed getoer nie EN ook nie goed by die huis gespeel nie. Behalwe vir laas jaar.
Die stormers en die sharks het in die “verlede” beter (let wel nie goed nie) getoer, maar terselftertyd ook goed by die huis vertoon. behalwe vir laas jaar natuurlik. Moet ons spelers kies op wat hulle in die verlede gedoen het of wat hulle huidiglik doen.
Ek persoonlik sal daarvan hou as my afrigter die vertroue in my stel wat jake in die huidige groep bokke het, maar flippit dan moet ek daai vertroue regverdig.
Schalk is nie naastenby wat hy was 2 jaar terug nie, maar ek sal hom nog steeds kies daar ek van mening is in ‘n goeie pak sal hu meer tot sy reg kom. Daar het egter ‘n geniepsigheid in sy spel ingetree wat bakkies laat bloos.
My bok 22
15- Roets
14- J Fourie
13- Habana
12- JdeV
11- A Ndungane
10- Hougaardt
9- F du P
8- P3
7- Juan S
6- Scahlk
5- Vic
4- Bakkies
3- BJ Botha
2- Gary
1- Du pessis (os is oor die muur. jammer om dit te sê.
16- Wynand O
17- Ruan Pienaar
18- Conrad Jan
19- CJ vd Linde
20- Pakslae
21- Vickus
22- S Brits
Ja die meeste is Bulls. Maar hulle performance regverdig dit. Die span is op HUIDIGE meriete.
14 Mar 2006, 13:16 pm
Regardless of what one thinks of Tactisus initial appraisel, it would be hard pressed to prove him wrong.
In what provincial setup, never mind the Bulls….would Quinton Davids,Eddie Andrews,Shimange,Nokwe,et al…..get starting berths?
And Jake makes them all Boks ahead of players performing far better and far more consistantly.
If we look ahead to possible Bok selections later in the year, whose willing to bet that either of Skeate or Bekker get selected. Who wants to bet that Conradie makes it ahead of Pienaar.Who wants to bet that Chavanga is again selected before Mentz or Ndgane?Who wants to bet that the young WP prop also gets capped?
Jakes selection policy is screwed…..he’s made some good ones but far more bad ones and the fact that he is WP bias is undeniable.
What is also undeniable is that the unions will outlast Jake White, he needs them far more than they need him.He needs to do all the wining and dining.
14 Mar 2006, 13:18 pm
Shosoloza
Baie goeie span
14 Mar 2006, 13:20 pm
The only way that I can see a Watson and Burger combo working is if WP start playing left and right side flankers and do away with this open side/blind side idea.
They are both opensiders….they both need to be able to play to the ball depending on what area of the pitch the scrum is.
14 Mar 2006, 13:22 pm
Shosoloza
Fourie is playing **** at the moment….in fact most of our scrumhalfs are.
Conradie is possibly playing the best…..which isn’t saying much because he’s not that great anyway.
Pienaar is far to inconsistant still.
14 Mar 2006, 13:23 pm
Cab talking about the bulls succes and the springboks succes are two very different things.
Your intentions to play Danie Rossouw are based purely on brute streagth and possibly a few other soft issue area’s, and honestly thats your opinion.
Persoanlly I cant compare Joe or Danie as players they are radically different and thats what comes down to game plan.
Cab we had this chat maybe last year I think, the fact that worries me about Danie is he’s liability with his hands, he dont have the skills mate!
He’s lock or loose forward on the given day and opposition. Play him against Argentina and Whales.
Personally speaking my bok trio for I would want to have the choice of five or six loosies on any given day.
I am worried about Schalk and very worried about Juan Smith, even though he was a revelation last Juan is loosing form, hands and tackles, and Schala he just looks tired and lacks spirit, but he’s playing for the Stiormers.
The bulls style of rugby has its place and so do others its moulding creating and understanduing the stregths and weaknesses as a coach to mould the best side, play the form players for that day and against that opposition.
14 Mar 2006, 13:25 pm
St P,
Watson is playing good rugby at the moement, but I am not that impressed with him. He lacks something that I can’t put my finger on.
I do agree that the Stormers must decide, Watson or Burger. The current duo is not good for them at all.
Also, although he gets a lot of praise each weekend I am not impressed with fourie. He’s not the same.
Would also play Ricky and maybe Pienaar (at least take him along so that he can get some exposure)
14 Mar 2006, 13:28 pm
Jake has 2 problems, i) he opens his mouth too soon and ii) he is prone to schoolmaster behaviour.
But nobody is perfect and regardless of the propaganda you bulle supporters like to spout, here is one coach who has achieved a minor miracle. His results speak for themselves.
What the hell have the bulls accomplished on the international stage? How many away games did they win last year? Who are the current CC champions?
Thats right Jake White is Heyneke’s daddy.
14 Mar 2006, 13:33 pm
Fuzzy,
yes, its all about opinion, i’m saying Danie is useful in certain types of matches and should not be discrarded out-of-hand merely cos he is not as skillful as Joe. The bok pack has often lacked a harder edge in the recent past, which is why we keep getting beaten up by certain teams. JvN is also good, however you need to decide what sort of game you want to play, which seems to be in agreement with your final sentence.
14 Mar 2006, 13:36 pm
basically, i’m arguing in the NH for two ball barriers at 7 and 8 selected from Cronje, Rossouw, AJ and Juan.
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