White wants direction; not a national director
14 Mar 2006
Springbok coach Jake White believes the appointment of a national director of rugby will do nothing to improve the situation in South Africa.
While most, including me, are screaming that such an appointment be made, White said he would prefer to operate free of any director as he felt it would only complicate and not simplify any national coaching position.
“People are looking for answers in the wrong place. The answer to our problems is not the appointment of a national director of rugby. The answer is consistency in coaching appointments at a national and regional level and a succession plan for each person, agreed to by the board of the SA Rugby Union,” White told Keo.co.za, adding that he had reservations about a national director of rugby appointment because of all the politics involved in creating such a position.
“The less interference to the Bok side the better,” said White. “And I think a national director of rugby would want the Springboks to fall under his job responsibility. I don’t think this is right. We currently have a general manager of national teams in former Stormers and Welsh international Andy Marinos. He does a fantastic job, but his focus is very much on the administration around the team. He has nothing to do with the rugby side of it and that is the way I, as a national coach, would prefer it. I know others disagree.”
White said that it was outrageous to be calling for the heads of Kobus van der Merwe and Frans Ludeke, to name but two of the country’s five regional coaches.
“Take Frans as an example. He has lost four of his first five matches, but the Cats have lost something like 44 of their last 49 matches in the competition. In this time they used Frans, Tim Lane and a coaching trio of Chester Williams, Rassie Erasmus and Brendan Venter. Getting rid of the coach isn’t the answer.
“Where’s Chester? So much went into his development in 2004 and 2005 and now he hasn’t got a team to coach. Where’s Brendan? He was very good at London Irish but he’s not coaching? What would have happened to Rassie if the Cheetahs were not a new entity in the Super 14? Would he also have been sacked.
“In Cape Town it is the same. What good would it do to be sacking Kobus (van der Merwe) and Gary (Gold) after one season? It is short-term knee-jerk reaction. As I said in an earlier interview, if there was a rugby blueprint that embraced the national coach and the five regional coaches and put in place a three-to-five year plan and succession plan, we wouldn’t have coaches coaching from one week to the next wondering if this week is their last. It is not right.”
White also said it was crucial that the top 140 players were identified between himself and the five regional coaches.
“We don’t have a draft system. We don’t have proper identification. There are some very good players running around in the Vodacom Cup that could be adding value to our Super 14 squads. But no one is talking. No one is acting on what is a crisis situation for us. The first five weeks of the competition have not been good to us. All the coaches and myself need to be discussing how it can be improved, not on a casual basis, but in a constructive way to find solutions.”
White said it distressed him that his All Blacks counterpart Graham Henry (and his fellow national coaches) were spending a day a week with the five New Zealand franchises. At this Henry interacts with the regional coach and those players in the national frame. It also gives him a chance to see first hand players outside of the national framework.
“We simply don’t have that kind of working relationship in our rugby,” said White. “I’ve popped in at the odd union for a casual visit. Earlier in the year I indicated that I would like to play a more active role during the competition, in terms of interacting with the coaches and adding value to their campaigns. Nothing materialised.”
White, after five weeks of Super 14 woe, is frustrated. He believes he could be making a difference. Instead he is far removed from the South African Super 14 scene.
“Now is the time to fix it,” he says. “We can’t keep on plodding along like this.”
265 Comments
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14 Mar 2006, 13:36 pm
Stinky, I doubt very much that Jake will pick Watson, his splurge in the media when Jake didn’t pick him the last time did it for him.
Also agree that Burger is not at his best at the moment, but as with the rest of the team, Fester’s lack of coaching skills is to blame.
14 Mar 2006, 13:42 pm
ruan piennaar must play for bokke so will spies.
fourie game not been so good
If we select a team for us purely on performance who would make it based on stats!!!!
14 Mar 2006, 13:42 pm
Hold on Cab
Now you are inventing facts.
What exactly have the Boks achieved?
We’ve won all our home games……..and so we bloody should if we are honest about it.
Don’t let your lack of ambition cloud your judgement.
Compared with Strauli’s Boks we are brilliant-granted.
However,we still have not beaten a top 5 team away from home under Jake White.
We won a tri-nations…..but again, we didn’t win a game away from home did we? Well, if you want to count that game in Perth vs Oz when they fielded the softest side in the last 20 years….and even then we only scrapped home. Not that different from Heyneke Meyers current sequence? Win all the home games….lose all the away games.Get as many bonus points as possible.
Jake White’s achievments are no better than Meyer’s whatsoever. S14 is a far more telling competition………more games, more away games and sometimes even more away games than home games.
There’s only 1 daddy in SA rugby coaching circles…….and it is not Jake White.
14 Mar 2006, 13:46 pm
een vd bulle se tekortkomings is dat hulle nie ‘n baie goeie 6 het nie. As L Watsen nou sy kop gebruik gaan hy na die Bulle toe en dit sal sy game ongelooflik goed doen. Ek rate hom – alhoewel hy dalk nog te los speel.
Of Wikus v H, hy sal ook goed inpas by die bulle. Ek kan nie verstaan hoekom het hulle hom nog nie gekoop nie.
Pakslae is ‘n slot en die bulle kan nie bekostig om hom as ‘n loossie te speel nie.
Wasserman en Pakslae is ook nie die vinnigste mense op aarde nie om nie eens te praat van Cronje nie. Hulle is wel kliphard maar die bulle kort spoed na die afbreekpunte.
P Spies gaan nog ‘n skitterende speler word – ek ken hom al vandat hy 5jr oud was toe hy nog kaalvoet op die plaas tussen die diere met ‘n rugbybal gespeel het.
Hierdie lat eet, drink en slaap rugby en is nie bang om die pap dik aan te maak nie – hy’s ‘n youngster vir die toekoms – miskien is hy die agsteman waarvoor ons al lank wag want Flou Joe speel nie te goed nie.
Ek het baie te se oor S Burger maar miskien het hy ‘n afrigter nodig wat ‘n openlike gesprek met hom kan he. Hy is ongelooflik talentvol maar iets is nie reg met sy game nie. Hy is ook heeltemal te geniepsig. Hy hardloop soos ‘n afkop hoender rond en probeer alles self doen – dit hou hom te besig en maak hom oneffektief.
Tans is daar huidiglik net 1 loossie op vorm en dis J Smit – daai man is ‘n monster. P3 mis nog te veel tackles en ek is onseker of ek A3 Badenhorst moet noem tussen die groot honde.
Ek het nog min vd Sharks gesien – hoe speel AJ Venter?
Dus my 2 sente is dat ons huidiglik probleme het op loosies vir die Bokke – nie net die Stormers en Bulls nie.
14 Mar 2006, 13:49 pm
hey keo who would be the inform players at the moment maybe we should chat about that.
14 Mar 2006, 13:52 pm
CAB
in the current Stormers team with no real fwd play and runners Burger can play off, Luke is imho outperforming Burger, however although not on form as he was i would still pick him in my lossies for SA.
8 Pedrie / Danie Rossouw
7 Juan Smith
6 Burger
5 Vic
4 Bakkies
3 BJ Botha
2 John/ Gary
1 CJ
J Cronje is not half the player he was. Although Danie is not a 6/7 i think that he or Pedri can bring something to nr 8.
14 Mar 2006, 13:53 pm
Didn’t Keo write that he’s going to keep us updated, and create a team each week of inform players? If not, start doing it now!
14 Mar 2006, 13:53 pm
please!
14 Mar 2006, 13:53 pm
Staal,
Ek dink die groot rede hoekom die hsarks ‘ oplewing beleef, is oor die spel van AJ. Hy is by vêre die beste no 7 in Sa op die oomblik, speel met vuur en passie en het van sy dom astrante geniepsigheid ontslae geraak!
14 Mar 2006, 13:55 pm
Spank me
Danie a no 8 please dream on
PS change your name to” klap me”
14 Mar 2006, 13:55 pm
what have the boks achieved? StP, you’re taking the piss surely.
Firstly, when JW took over in 2004 we were a laughing stock on the international stage and had been so under a string of previous coaches. We constantly got pounded in the 3N year after year and suffered a 55-3 loss to the poms and i think our first ever losses to Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Down to 6th on the rankings, never has a bok side been so poor. If you remember JW’s first series was against Ireland at home and the Irish were favourites.
Well we won that and have not lost a series at home since. In his past two years we won the 3N once and were a very close runner-up last year. We beat the aussies 3 times last year, who are still a pretty decent side. We have beaten NZ twice and lost narrowly once to the best team on the planet easily. No other side has done this. Not even close. The All Blacks absolutely caned England at home and France in their backyard.
Under JW we have moved from ranked 6 to 2 in under 2 years, it is a miracle.
14 Mar 2006, 13:56 pm
Please can we leave Pakslae at Lock, have him as an impact player, but please at lock!
14 Mar 2006, 13:57 pm
Cab for president lol
14 Mar 2006, 13:59 pm
Bloem Leeu
same name diff language.
Danie is a powerfull runner with the ball in hand. He can provide great fwd momentum from the base of the scrum and the back of the lineout, yes he is not the quickest nr 8 but neither is David Lions of they Woblies but he sure is powerfull.
14 Mar 2006, 14:01 pm
Spank me,
I agree on J cronje. Looks like JW obsession with bulk and power rubbed of on him.
In his strive (spelling) to become bigger and stronger he lost a lot of speed.
I don’t think pakslae is a good 8, too slow as well. he is a definate lock.
14 Mar 2006, 14:01 pm
We could have been no1 if right team played …
14 Mar 2006, 14:03 pm
most importantly White has actually managed to engender a team spirit and a willingness to win, which has not been seen since Mallet, and even then the players seem to respect White more.
Why, simple, he is open-minded enough to respect their abilities and encourage their skills, but at the same time backs them to the hilt, unlike many other coaches that waiver their support at the first sign of difficulty.
Strikes me as being a principled bloke whose strengths far outweight his weaknesses and is an excellent analyst and rugby coach. Yet the bulle want to drop him and other star players. What exactly did the boks do wrong last year?
The bulle supporters are a knowledgeable bunch, but their narrow-mindedness and inability to see the bigger picture has always been their downfall.
14 Mar 2006, 14:05 pm
Spank me
No pun intended
A No 8 must be powerfull, skillfull and must have great vision on attack and defence “and must be able to catch the ball lol”
I think van Heerden or Wannenburg could fill this role
14 Mar 2006, 14:07 pm
… i think Andre Vos would be the best No 8!
14 Mar 2006, 14:08 pm
bloemleeu, bladdy good 8 that even when he came over to the UK.
14 Mar 2006, 14:15 pm
If I can Dream…
Bring Vos back at No8, Juan at 7 & Scalk at 6
Make Vos captian, drop John Smit and play G Botha or S Brits
14 Mar 2006, 14:16 pm
StP,
just my opinion, you are welcome to yours, but are you just stirring it a bit this morning?
14 Mar 2006, 14:18 pm
Cab
you are measuring Jake Whites success with Strauli and Viljoen’s lack of it……..eeeisshh.
Rather compare Jake with Mallet and Kristie……and then he falls a little short at this stage of his tenureship.
The Boks winning games in South Africa is non-negotiable as far as I’m concerned.No Bok coach should be getting patted on the back for doing this……..it should be as basic as breathing air.
We provide one of the biggest pools of players
To play in the biggest stadiums
With the most vocal and passionate fans
…….non-negotiable….nothing to do with great coaching.
Winning in NZ/England/France…….now that takes good coaching, preparation,selection, tactics and gameplan.
14 Mar 2006, 14:19 pm
Tacitus, you sound like a regte plank. Jacque Fourie is the best 13 in the country, but plays for the cats. Are you going to leave him out?
That bonehead rugby only goes so far, when they need flair, they fall on their bums!
14 Mar 2006, 14:21 pm
8- Sowerby
7- AJ
6- Scahlk
14 Mar 2006, 14:22 pm
Bloem leeu,
Tov die hakers in die S14 moet ek se dat S Brits is huidiglik ons beste. ek laaik netnie daai “goose step” idee van hom nie. Al wat kortkom is ‘n bottel bleach en dan is hy nou wragtie ‘n “Flou Joe wannabeee”.
Gary Botha is nog nie op vorm nie en ek het nog nie J Smit gesien nie.
14 Mar 2006, 14:22 pm
Good point RedCard. White should just pickup the phone, why is he waiting for the other coaches to phone him!
14 Mar 2006, 14:30 pm
Cab,
I’m not sure what you mean by “narrow mindedness” and “downfall”. You Can’t compare JW with HM. To make a Fair comparrison JW must coach the current Bull team and HM the boks. If JW gets better results than HM he is a better coach and visa versa. BTW jake away record is not something to brag about. It is about the same as HM away record.
At this stage lets agree that both are good coaches. Both took struggling team’s and turned them around into quality teams.
As for The Mallet, he is the best coach to date, won 17 in a row half of them away. Hi’s absession with Bobby Foreskin in the 99 RWC caused his downfall.
I can remember how the Rugby public outside Pta went ballistic when John Williams was the bok coach and select mainly Bulls players. Can remeber specifically the noise that was made about Piet (ore) Pretorius.
14 Mar 2006, 14:30 pm
Yeah Jake and we want NO SIRCUS either – like the relegation circus that stuffs up the bit of good play and momentum there is in SA Rugby…
O yes Jake and we DONT want BvR etc etc..And we would like to see the best hookers in the country get to wear Bok jerseys…
14 Mar 2006, 14:31 pm
For the record……I rekon Jake is a decent enough coach, the players seem to like playing for him and basically that is enough for me.If you have an enviroment where the players want to play for the coach, and the coach rates all his players I believe you can be successful.
I do believe that his lack of experience in CC or S14 is now hindering his own developement.
It is at these levels of rugby where he would of learnt to evolve a team and take them to the next level.I also possibly question his expertise, he may have to do a Sir Clive Woody and recruit specialists to focus on certain aspects of the sides play…..possibly even tactics.Nothing wrong with this…..Alex Fergusen did it with Man United when he was falling short in European games, he called in specifically McClaren followed by Quiroz to focus on tactics for those matches.
But like you said, with his “Headmaster know-it-all” attitude…I wonder if he is big enough to admit that he does not know it all.
PS: Calling in a scrum guru on the Saterday before a
test match is also not exactly what I am getting at.
14 Mar 2006, 14:32 pm
no wonder nick mallet called supporters stupid – after reading the first 20 posts i can understand the level of intelligence JW has to work with if the majority of people in SA share this view.
14 Mar 2006, 14:33 pm
Staal
The funny thing I use to play hooker like S Brits, step and all, then got selected for Northern Natal U/21 as an inside centre, and I nver looked back, just loving it!
14 Mar 2006, 14:34 pm
surely a Bok no 8 should be 1st choice in that position, or any position, at his province. Wannenburg is only now being used as a starter at the bulls. That said I do like him.
Wickus has played for the Boks, and shown himself to not be up to the task. A tireles grafter who will never let you down – but Jake is quite clear that he looks for players with x-factor. We have so many talented loosies in SA – why pick solid, when you can have exceptional. Lets not put donkeys up against racehorses like Collins, McCaw, Smith, Nyanga etc.
I like the look of the young Spies though – he’s one to watch closely. AJ is a monster and gives the mongrel a forward pack needs. Juan Smith is an allrounder who will be around for a while (he just needs to wrok on his vision and passing) – so does schalk…). Big Joe is the most talented, if not hard working, or strong loosie, and you’ve got Schalks immense work rate. Jaque Cronje needs to step up at international level, but I fear he flatters to decieve. awesome physically, he just does not impose himself in matches the way players like schalk or AJ do.
Anyways, thats my 2 cents worth…
I’d like a loose trio of:
6. Big Joe
7. Smith
8. AJ – why doesn’t he play here anymore?
With Scalk either on the bench, or starting with Joe on the bench.
14 Mar 2006, 14:35 pm
Tot ons ‘n vaskop kry wat domineer sal JS haker wees, CJ het nog glad nie oortuig nie. Du Plessis is beter, BJ is hoog “gerate” deur Kees Lensing wat seker iets moet beteken.
AJ kan dalk op 8 die oplossing gee ek sal hom en Juan nie saam as flanke speel nie. Hy is egter die hoof rede hoekom Sharkies so goed lyk.
14 Mar 2006, 14:40 pm
PissAnt – agree. the same feeling i got
14 Mar 2006, 14:58 pm
B4theGame,
So you are saying that a team that has lost 44 of their last 49 games doesn’t deserve to be relegated!!!!!
No, in SA, we’d rather watch balookas like Jorrie, than blood new youngsters.
14 Mar 2006, 15:02 pm
Pa,
Pasop om mense se intelek te klasifiseer volgens jou denkpatroon – ons het almal die reg om te verskil en nie een van ons kan besluit wie is onnosel of nie. Ek was ‘n “prembaba” en is nie baie skerp nie en nou voel ek baie seergemaak ….
Jy gee nogal interessante opmerkings oor spelers se spel/stand van rugby, kom ons hou dit daar.
Wat dink jy is die beste backline wat Sa op die veld kan sit volgens spelpeil vandag?
14 Mar 2006, 15:03 pm
St P,
To say JW is WP bias, is a quite a statement. Let’s look at a possible SA side that JW would select:
Monty
Habana
Fourie
JDV
Jantjies/Paulse (given he is back)
Jaco vd Westhuizen
Januarie/du Preez
Os/Guthro
Smit
CJ vd Linde
Botha
Matfield
Burger
Smith
Venter/van Niekerk.
3 current players from WP in there. 20% of the starting line up. And we have 5 S14 sides, so that seems to me an even distribution.
14 Mar 2006, 15:11 pm
Lo
A team sheet like that is all fine and well…but look at the squad picture……then look at some of the players missing out with selection (not only Bulls players) at the expense of Newlands based players.
Players like poor old BJ Botha are wondering what they must do to take Eddie Andrews’ place.
All 50/50 selection calls go in the Captonians favor.
14 Mar 2006, 15:21 pm
staal,
jy weet mos teen die tyd dat ek net sekere mense onder een sambreel plaas – ek geniet baie mense se kommentaar hier en ek dink dis obvious na wie ek verwys.
anycase,
dis altyd moeilik om n span of agterlyn te kies op huidige vorm en te probeer verduidelik aan mense dat ek nie noodwendig dink dis die span wat vir die bokke moet uitdraf nie. ondervinding en kombinasies soos jy weet speel n groot rol.
maar kom ek maak so. die sekere spelers in sekere posisies wat my die meeste be-indruk het tot dusver is die volgende ouens. let wel, nie noodwendig springbok keuses nie maar hulle speel goeie rugga op die oomblik.
9. Pienaar – die laaitie het hope talent en nou kan mens verstaan hoekom hy verkies om scrummie te speel. kyk persoonlik reken ek nogsteeds hy het al die eienskappe om een van die beste heelagters ooit te raak maar ek is ook teen die neiging om mense uit posisie uit te speel.
10. Hougaard – glo dit of nie ek het nog altyd vir die ou baie ge-rate, en die vraag was net of hy kan opstaan na 2003. dit het hom n rukkie gevat en ek reken hy is op die oomblik 60% van wat hy kan wees. kyk net hoe hy sy veldposisie verander het van laas jaar af, hy staan glad nie meer in die ‘pocket’ nie en ek reken fourie is actually die swak skakel dat die bulle se agterlyn nie wegkom nie.
11. habana – geen gelyke nie, hy mors so biekie nou en dan maar die twee games wat hy op vorm was het hy gewys hy het aan sy swakpunte van verlede jaar gewerk, namens verdediging en posisionele spel – ek wens net iemand wil hom leer skop uit die hand uit as hy die heelaget so nou en dan moet gaan help. maar ek moet se die ou van die vrystaat het my nogal ook impress.
12. nie baie aanspraakmakers nie maar jean div het weer sy klas in n stront span die naweek bewys. as ou olivier nie daai een vrot game gehad het nie was hy loshande voor. watch die oukie van natal ook, hy wys goeie visie maar kort biekie vertroue in sy eie spel oom meer te waag.
13. weereens niks veel om oor huis toe te skryf nie, van al die swak spelers is JP op die oomblik die beste, maar saam met olivier is hy op tye biekie suspect.
14. nou hier is n klompie oor wie ek excite is. benjamin is baie goed in n swak span en die twee ndungane broers verbeter elke game. maar die bull ndungane moet die eer kry hier.
15. alhoewel hy nie die selle impak sover as laas jaar het nie en die feit dat percy rondgeskuif word bly dit maar roets. fortuin het ‘glimpses’ van genius in hom maar is nog biekie te ‘unreliable’
hoop dis nou beter.
(dit het my amper n blerrie uur gevat om afrikaans te tik)
14 Mar 2006, 15:24 pm
PissAnt (131),
what view? I’m one of the first 20 so I’m a bit slow in understanding what common view the first 20 propagated.
14 Mar 2006, 15:26 pm
Errm PA
Brannesnacht is on ruggaworld mate.
English please?
14 Mar 2006, 15:27 pm
katsesnor,
as i said to staal, if you read ‘some’ of the comments it should be obvious.
14 Mar 2006, 15:33 pm
sorry StP,
he asked in afrikaans so i thought it proper to answer in afrikaans.
but for your benefit.
my backline on guys i believe have played decent rugga (but not my first choice boks) in every position is as follows:
9. pienaar
10. hougaard
11. habana (cheetahs wing also impressed)
12. olivier (jean div showed his class bbut only played 1 game – and watch the guys from the sharks)
13. nel (out of all the pathetic displays so far he is the best)
14. ndungane (bulls) (his brother and benjamin for the stormers is also not too bad)
15. roets (not the roets of last year yet but no equal currently since monty is shuffled around)
14 Mar 2006, 15:36 pm
shosholoza,
by narrowmindedness, I am saying that from many of the posts above it is clear that bulle supporters cannot look beyond their own player base objectively. I would also add that although your style is effective, its hardly changed much in 100 years. Forward dominance with a boot at 10, which is why the Bulls are the least successful SA side in the S12.
yes, Meyer is a good coach, who has turned the Bulls fortunes around but its cos he has a more progressive mindset and is aware of their shortcomings.
The Bulls would be a far better side with Burger at 6 and JdV at 12.
StP, agree BJ should get a call up.
14 Mar 2006, 15:39 pm
yes cab and StP,
none more deserving of a chance than BJ
14 Mar 2006, 15:43 pm
Put Jake in charge of everything rugby in SA, he seems to know the most
14 Mar 2006, 15:46 pm
StP,
any 50/50 case where transformation can be advanced goes to the PD player – as is the case with Andrews. BJ have to be much better than Andrews – warranting a whitey to be dropped in another position to make up the quotas.
14 Mar 2006, 15:52 pm
ja the fact that some springboks just bench warmers isnt good.
14 Mar 2006, 15:57 pm
Boneheads are to be dumb, maak die Bulle almal bokke… Souties is almal ‘***’, gee die Stormers almal rokke… Cats to win Super14…
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