Spears enquiry gets green light
29 Mar 2006
Saru will send a fact-finding mission to the Spears to ascertain their state of readiness to participate in next year’s Vodacom Super 14.
The board of SA Rugby on Wednesday rubberstamped a recommendation made by the presidents council that the Spears’ partipation in the competition be revisited. SA Rugby’s decision effectively amounts to buying time for a politically explosive and legally complex issue.
Saru president Regan Hoskins will lead a delegation that also includes Saru vice-president Koos Basson, chief executive Johan Prinsloo, deputy chief executive Mveleli Ncula and financial director Basil Haddad.
“The visit marks the beginning of an investigation into the franchise, regarded as a critical step in determining the future of the Southern Spears,” SA Rugby said in a statement.
According to SA Rugby, the enquiry will include:
- an evaluation of the commercial impact of the ultimate decision taken on the affected franchises in the event of relegation;
- consideration of the bid documents from the Spears and other South African franchises;
- an assessment of implications of the decision on the Sanzar/Newscorp contract obligation to play the best possible sides from each of the Sanzar affiliates;
- a consideration of the implications of a decision for all stakeholders in the Spears region.
“The process will require a lot of research and time,” said Hoskins. “The ultimate decision is one we will not take lightly or in a haphazard function. The terms of reference are designed to give us a total picture that will tell us whether they are ready for 2007 or not.”
48 Comments
29 Mar 2006, 20:01 pm
The facts are easy to find,
even if they send *******.
Saru is run by incompetent idiots.
The government is run by corrupt,inept idiots.
Our players should be paid performance related ratio’s.
Our basic rugby skills are lacking.
WPW stands for ” whose poepol’s wet.”
Classic Blokkies,i’m still crying.
29 Mar 2006, 21:12 pm
can we see to which unions all the members on this panel has links?
29 Mar 2006, 21:20 pm
Duiwel or whatever your name is!
I suppose “the government is run by corrupt, inept idiots” statement was not applicable when the Groot Krokodil was around hey! I suppose the level of corruption you talk about relates to govt actually endorsing for the Spears participation in next years S14(who happen to have the majority of black players in their structures) Dont be a racist pig! your statement suggests that people who given their lives to get this country to where it is now have done so in vain. Guys like Mandela, Mbeki and countless other honest working government people (Black, White, Indian, Asian) etc are all idiots to you becuase they are responsible for shaping RSA to the way it is now. Please dont make irresponsible comments like that! Its quite clear that the big unions do not have transformation high in their agenda. and dont come and mention the bullshit that the team needs to be picked on merit(which i think is an insinuation that u need white players to dominate the numbers in a team for it to be strong and competitive.) Guys like you just cannot stand to see black players being given an opportunity. The bulls were last on the S12 log for several years in a row under Heyneke Meyer and actually won the first game overseas against the Hurricanes about 3 years ago. no one even suggested that maybe they were not good enough. they were given ample time and opportunity to develop into the dominant force they are in now. why is it disastrous if the same treatment is given to a province that happens (by chance) to have 13 black players starting? I wonder!
And in response to the article itself, i see no reason for these big unions to protect a team like the Cats that has struggled so much in recent seasons. Why not give other players who seem more hungrier than the fat Cats players who play with no soul. these guys have taken their place in Superrugby for granted. I say we put in the Spears in the S14. Cheetahs are playing with heart and even though they won the cuury cup, they dont have such wonderful structures sought by these unions. You dont have to look further than the vodacom cup to notice that.
29 Mar 2006, 21:37 pm
Lubabalo dont let these eejits put you off who dont think before they post. Remember most of the muppits on this site lived on the priveleged part of the fence so they have no idea what it feels like to not be given an opportunity in life. They are very quick to cry the ‘affirmative action is wrong’ mantra yet they have little regard for those who have faced bigger obstacles in their lives. Anyway enough of the politics.
On a rugby basis the Spears should be given a franchise purely because the structures in our country are not developed enough to capture a large part of our rugby-playing population. If we want to continue having a steady number of talented players coming through we need to 1) develop rugby in black areas and 2) strengthen our club structures.
Cats a disgrace. Have been for many a year. Give it to the Spears but only for 2007 with CC determining who gets promoted come 2008.
29 Mar 2006, 22:10 pm
Lubabalo & Shieldstheband
You are complaining about the Cats and Bulls performances in the competition? – the Spears got smashed in every match against the teams you think should be relegated from the competition.
Try to change your typical “African Idiot We Demand” attitude and start creating your own opportunities. It’s guys like you that will still be blaming the “Previous Regime” 30 years from now when you are failing with the rest of ‘Africa’. It’s absolutely disgusting – sies man!
29 Mar 2006, 23:37 pm
The Spears would be even worse in the S14 than the Cats, the stormers gave the Spears a massive hiding and look at how kak the stormers are at the moment.
To put the Spears in the S14 would make SA an even bigger laughing stock in S14.
Let the top 5 teams in the Currie Cup play in the S14.
29 Mar 2006, 23:41 pm
Yes the eedjit ******* in government are turning South Africa into just another african shithole.
Good Going.
30 Mar 2006, 00:59 am
Ooooh, this thread is gonna cause some problems!!
As mentioned before, put the Spears in the Currie Cup next. If they make the top 5, make them a super 14 franchise.
Simple simple simple.
30 Mar 2006, 01:03 am
Lem, that’s harsh boet. Yes they are corrupt, but then again so is GW Bush.
South Africa has been steadily improving as a country for the last 10 years and if we can pull off the world cup in 2010 without a hitch (hold thumbs), we can do anything!
30 Mar 2006, 02:31 am
What a waste of time! The Spares would in all likelihood be easily whacked by the Grey College U19 1st XV and anyone knows that!
Competitive in S14 rugby? What a laugh!
30 Mar 2006, 05:03 am
The CC solution for determining the five Super 14 franchises won’t work. Jake will be wanting to rest his chosen few and the unions will want to use all their best players to make the cut.
30 Mar 2006, 06:36 am
Labulululu oh come on, your talking more **** than Tackler and STM combined. Do you as a person serisouly say that its alright for this goverment to be Corrupt because the last” white one was” Thats the problem with the current black attitude in this country. 10 years on and your still going on about how hard done by you were 20 years ago.
you cant blame the past for the rest of your life FFKS.
PS 7 years ago when the Bulls started the Super 12 was hardly as proffesional as it is today, there are far more factors than just fielding a black team FFSK.
For all the black people out there that talk the very same **** as LEBULULU go fix your ******* football team first. Before you bring down what is a proud sport.
30 Mar 2006, 06:39 am
Ands SHIELD THE BAND how old are you pray tell?
cause **** if there is one thing that is uncanny its how fast Black people cry foul about racists this and Apartheid that. your probably 20 years old and havent got a ******* clue anyways. Hell im 32 and i hardly remember all the wrong doings? perhaps im living in the wrong part of SA? which i suppose is my fault, my ancestors fault and pretty much everyone else who is whites fault.
******* stupid tospot. talk rugby this is a rugby site.
30 Mar 2006, 06:41 am
Some guys on this forum got issues, looks like the hate is not about to go away…
30 Mar 2006, 07:26 am
The Super14 is a professional competition,and as such it’s all about money. The Spares are useless as there track record up to now shows, and that means 0 support and 0 people through the turnstyles. And the sponsors don’t like that.
30 Mar 2006, 07:28 am
blue is dit hoekom hulle R42 mill se sponsers al klaar het wat wil commit?
30 Mar 2006, 07:39 am
Wls
can’t agree more. The problem from their perspective was they were promised something and now that promise is not going to materialize. We would all be agitated by this, who made the promise and why is it taken away……. that’s what we need to analyze.
imo, baby steps as we know has been crucial to success in life, thus go and prove your worth in the VC and CC and then go forward to international. it would be criminal and corrupt to go S14 straight. yes it is also criminal and corrupt to promise and not deliver…. go sort that with BvR and minister of sport. No one ever said the idea of taking rugby to the people is not brilliant, but do the people want to see a hiding every week – I think not!! And that’s what exposed an idiot like BvR and made him fall of the high nd might chair.
this team and franchise will exist if they play S14 next year or not, so let them continue to play the games as planned e.g. against the Farce, because that will be good prep for the CC.
win the CC in the first year running, challenge the Cats / Stormers (or who ever) for a promo – relegation match, win that and who can criticize and say this team did not put their hand up to play S14.
wls, also note that this is the hard way and with all respect the these 2 new incumbents posting, this isn’t the appropriate way that you always wants to do and see things? don’t let the history you are making be one of, ag shame we tried even though we were warned, and now we know what its all about.
Spears in S14 will get whacked every sat, for the simple reason this franchise was not a rugby decision but a political one, and between the 4 lines on the rugby field politics count for nothing.
we want to post rugby comments here, can we stick to that!!
30 Mar 2006, 07:40 am
Lubabalo…you are an idiot just like the other ******* in the goverment,let the black players earn their right in a team or competition on merit.They should not be forced in somewhere by the goverment.Let they prove themselves in the currie cup and then we take it from there…why is it everytime u white people say black people must earn their right and play good rugby to be in a starting 15 then we are racist? u are such a ***
….
30 Mar 2006, 07:43 am
how ready are the stormers and cats to play super 14?
30 Mar 2006, 07:46 am
Bliksem – Yes I agree. I think there should be a relegation match…
30 Mar 2006, 07:48 am
bliksem
based on paper we need to say they must be there. but if they are ready, not quite sure, although they do turn up running through the tunnel onto the park……….. but that’s how ready they are for now, maybe in 07 they will know there are two 40 min periods and start playing the first and in 08 they will play the full 80.
30 Mar 2006, 07:49 am
South Africa now is better than its ever was thanks to the ‘*******’ who liberated us from a sinking afrikaner christian ship. If you long for the old South Africa and think todays version is a ****-up then go to Orania.
Wls I am almost 30 and still nothing pisses me off as much as ignorant whiteys who go to shopping malls and live behind barbed wire yet claim to know whats going on in this country. You dont know the half of it boet.
Rugby: The Spears were together for 1 month when they played the other teams. Even this year the Bulls struggled to convincingly beat a Namibian side after their lay-off. Its all about money you see, not politics. Why did the CHEETAHS have to wait so many years for a franchise despite whipping the lions year after year?
The spears and the cheetahs lack money but they dont lack passion. Yet somehow both has to travel to the moon to ‘convince’ the other non-perfomers of their worthiness?
30 Mar 2006, 07:51 am
shields
cheetahs whipped lions in CC, let the spears do the same first on that level.
30 Mar 2006, 08:01 am
Shields – you idiot,what the **** has arrogant whities got to do with this you prick??? You jealous coz whities still live the high life – Ag shame…
30 Mar 2006, 08:13 am
Once a sense of entitlement settles into the mindset of a particular group, it lingers for long – much longer than 10 years.
Hell, in the US, African Americans are still going on about slavery, 150 years later…
Once you start expecting hand-outs instead of earning your way through life, you are pretty much condemning yourself to the bottom rung of society. Is it any coincidence that African Americans are also the poorest group in the US?
Societies who prosper are ones who roll up their sleeves and get to work, not ones who wait for a share of the riches to be “allocated to them”.
In the same way, the Spears supporters seem to be driven by a sense of entitlement. Whether they win or lose in the Super 14 is apparantly immaterial to them, as long as they get their “rightful share” of the Super 14 cake.
How typical, and how predictable…Just like their future performances in the competition, if they don’t climb the ladder the hard way…
30 Mar 2006, 08:14 am
i am white bigg. whites still live the high life? i bet you dont use that argument when you have a hissy fit about how unfair affirmative action is!
30 Mar 2006, 08:16 am
shields I am with you guys.12 years down the line and some blacks are still crying they are victims.ag ****** shame.
30 Mar 2006, 08:17 am
firstly the article.
i feel for regan in a way that he has to sort some of this **** out.
but the spears scenario is not one of them.
he, and the presidents council made this decision last year june 8 – he is hardly new to this and was actually part of the original decision made when he still represented natal.
now he, and the self-same presidents want to re-investigate, re-assess, re-evaluate the decision they all agreed to? seems a bit odd doesnt it.
fair enough a few of the presidents weren’t there when this decision got made – but they are all from small unions and these unions have nothing to gain or lose from this decision – well apart from back-hands and votes that is.
we all to BVR apart for the integrity he displayed while running our rugby – i include myself in this, i could not stand the man. but then what type of integrity has regan displayed so far?
that reporter from the mercury reported and quote hoskins as such a stand up guy where all the minutes of the PC meeting would be released to the public because transparency is key in his tenure – just for regan to come back and say he never said such a thing AFTER the meeting, yet the journo sticks by his article and keo can correct me if i am wrong, but if you are quoted out of context cant you sue or demand a public apology from one such journalist? surely it borders on defamation? has regan requested this? if not it speaks volumes of who i reckon is talking the truth.
but then why the about turn on that? was things perhaps discussed in the meeting where he relized it will be suicide if he releases these notes or minutes? just specualting but hell what else can we do? integrity…
to bring it back to the spears. last year he was one of those that made this decision to include them.
i mentioned yesterday that the reason i believe all the ‘presidents’ were so keen to do this last year was because it was believed that the new boys, cheetahs, who has a new coach wont make the grade. well well well, they ended up winning the CC and think back to when these noises were made… only by the end of last year.
suddenly the new guys are a force and wont be the ones replaced by the spears and everything changed. integrity.
peter de villiers mentioned SARU (and i include the presidents) are making these statements and recommendations because they are scared – well i think they are kakking themselves.
the spears – well we can argue and go on and on debating whether they are good enough or not.
the embarrassment argument does not stick with me because i can pull up records over the last 10 years which has embarrassment written all over it.
the not good enough argument also does not stick with me, because as coach mentioned 2 days ago, one-off matches is no way to judge a team – otherwise we can pick the 70+ points thrashings of the current unions/franchises and hold them up as arguments as-well. and i agree, for a team together for two months playing against established franchises/unions is no way to gauge whether they will be good enough in a year’s time.
so lets judge them on the CC.
the facts so far is that they have already secured R42 mil in sponsorships (with another R60 mil in negotiations) and are involved in many agreements which includes upgrades of stadiums, sports clinics and they have contracted players and employed individuals – all these thing cost money and it was done because of what was agreed to – their participation in 2007.
as a business, which they are and what most people forget, it is not only wrong to now go back on all of this but also speaks volumes of the values of these people that made the decision in the first place.
someone mention a day or two ago the decision on our new president was basically an ABB vote (anything but brian). and i am starting to agree with him if i look what is happening at the moment.
the minutes story and now a president going back on a decision he has made with the other big union presidents is a clear indication they are buying time and onlly looking out for themselves and nothing else – so how is that different from brian?
johan prinsloo is not even worth discussing because of the contradictions he makes in the media yet he is still CEO of SARU?
regan mentioned he wants to look at everyone’s salaries to evaluate where money is spent. can we also see regan? or has that also now dispappeared with all the other promises? all talk.
take chester williams as an example – now nothing against the guy i dont know him personally. but he is on SARU’s payroll for a reported R500K (per annum i think but dont quote me) as being the springbok ‘a team’ coach, which was confirmed at the last PC meeting. can anyone tell me when and against who the ‘a team’ isplaying this year? is chester then getting paid to coach a team that has no fixtures and effectively does not exist?
the point in all this. forget the spears people and look at the bigger picture. if decisions are made like this (this time against the spears) what stops these guys for making the same decisions in future to perhaps your team you support? stab them in the back and go back against their word as soon as they do or say something that does not go down well with the old boys club in SARU?
the spears are asking for a fair chance to prove themselves. now all of you can keep on slamming the coach and players and the union or region and bring politics into these arguments if it makes you feel better – but a team like the cheetahs proved to me with a bit of guts and determination you can accomplish a **** lot.
so i believe they deserve a chance to compete – and until then some arguments posted on this blog is as pathetic as the new clown(s) running our lovely game.
30 Mar 2006, 08:18 am
much like the afrikaner who without protection and handouts would probably still be behind the english and africans due to their inherent superiority complex. i bet the cats had to climb the ladder the hard way? you sound like a clown tacitus.
30 Mar 2006, 08:21 am
tacticus,
and with the current teams performances over the last 10 years (win or lose) losing more often than not they feel entitled to the same Super 14 cake?
your argument is flawed and biased.
30 Mar 2006, 08:23 am
in fact – you (our current franchises) have climbed the hard ladder and failed everytime – if that is how you argue this situation then the spears have even more of a case than what the other teams have.
30 Mar 2006, 08:40 am
Shields – then you must have a black wife…
30 Mar 2006, 08:50 am
I love the mentality of some of you guys. Whenever somebody presents an alternative viewpoint you come back with some witty retorts like:
“Lubabalo…you are an idiot just like the other ******* in the goverment”
Most of you guys should just say thankyou to anybody who tries to educate you so that you can lift yourselves out of your unbearable dark little nightmare that you currently live in. You guys are so disconnected from reality, it’s frightening. This site unfortunately is starting to look like those white power fringe websites where people still deny the holocaust.
Get some perspective.
30 Mar 2006, 09:03 am
Listening to Tony (Spears CEO) on SABC sport last night.
He came up with the following;
1. SARU agree to initiate the Spears programme in June 05. On 29 March 2006, not a single SARU official had gone to PE, to have a look.
2. Funds were promised to the franchise by SARU in June 2005, not a cent had been given to the Spears.
3. In the 4 monhts that the Spears started to prepare for their inclusion in next year’s Super 14, not a sinlge SARU official had been to one of the 7 games the Spears had played to date.
4. Tony went on to invite SARU officials to have a look at the Spears play Namibia in their upcoming game.
5. SARU’s management have not yet been to any of the Spears facilities i.e. administration set up and on field structures.
The points he raised came as a shock to me. The premier body of rubgy admin in the country has not made an effort to see the Spears so the fact finding mission by Mr Hoskins will, in all probability achieve very little because past behaviour by SARU reps indicate a very high degree of unwillingness to assist “their” programme.
Even more interesting these times, were Mike Stofile’s comments on today’s Daily Dispatch. He raised concerns about the capability of EP and Border to administer a project of this nature, when the two provincial unions were without board presidents respectively.
His “new” stance was rather suprising from someone who was part of the Border set up, though the man raised legitimate concerns, I am finding it difficult to believe the his reasons for raising these concerns at this point. Stofile is the same man who went for his brother’s backing to get the Spears rolling.
I think he has sold out, a possible trade off for the vice presidency and another power monger in the making.
I think the programme on SABC is better presented compared to the Nkumane, Naas, Ndoro and Le Roux show. Supersport sucks when it comes to rugby presentation and the sunday afternoon show (All Out Rugby) is a joke.
I do understand that you cannot compete with a satellite channel that gives you live coverage of global sports but the way the package their highlights, analysis and general presentation is wack.
Garth Wright sucks, he might be a Spears man but he sucks on TV, period.
Head 2 Head remains the best show SA broadcasters have come up with.
30 Mar 2006, 09:32 am
if relegation was to go ahead would the Cats players to be able to get a release? isn’t the best place in Jo’burg the highway that gets you out of there?
30 Mar 2006, 09:48 am
What a load of rubish, the only way to determain if you’re ready is to at least do well in the cc.
I could give a report that will show that Pfadder High School is raedy for S14.
“Papier is geduldig” ask any Cat’s – and now days Strompies supporter.
30 Mar 2006, 09:57 am
Brumby4,
Yes, a clause in the contract apparently that Jake can place the boks in any team he wishes, not sure about the rest.
No, the highway only has 4 lanes and is always jam-packed until way into dark. So I guess it gets you stuck in there.
30 Mar 2006, 10:02 am
Pissant
If the Spears are better than the Cats, they deserve to be in the Super 14. However, going by the statements of De Villiers, Meckeever and the gang, if they end lower than 5th in the Currie Cup they will still insist that they are “entitled” to participation because of transformation or some other lame reason.
Just because the Cats do terribly in the Super 14, does not automatically mean that the Spears should replace them.
That is like a dog losing constantly to a tiger in a fight, prompting the rat to suggest that he may do better.
The onus is now on the Spears to prove their worth in the Currie Cup, not to make loud noises about possible court cases if they are excluded.
Do you think that anyone would deny them their chance if they made the Currie Cup semi’s?
They are protesting so loudly because they know that they will not be able to achieve that.
Which proves that they should not be in the Super 14 in the first place.
Time to get back in touch with reality.
30 Mar 2006, 10:10 am
I doubt if any of you who are relegating the Spears to a no-go for the S14 next year have seen them play. I watched the games in PE (vs Cheetahs) and EL (vs Cats). The Spears lack depth and experience in their pack. The Cheetahs won purely by destroying the Spears up front, and they used their big forwards quite effectively. Big up to them, however the real backline running (lacking in all but the Stormers) came from the Spears. The Cats was mediocre against the Spears. The fact that they eventually won, was a mere confirmation of the babies the Spears was at the time.
I cannot wait to see the Spears forwards bulk up and adding an experienced front row. If this happens, the Currie Cup will belong to the SPEARS. And blind believers in the current kak we are forced to watch each weekend, will reconsider their spoonfed views of the game of kings.
My views is not about race, politics, and whatever stupid agenda you wanna conjur up… it is about seeing a team play rugby the way it should be played. And it’s about time.
30 Mar 2006, 10:16 am
Nondoda,
Did you read my reply to your Xhosa message, and did I read it right. Some words I was not too sure about.
Ja but the show on sabc last night I could hardly understand, tried my best but they speak to fast and loose me far to quickly.
Your comment “Garth Wright sucks, he might be a Spears man but he sucks on TV, period.”
Are you implying that Spears men are automatically better ?!? Just because they seems to be (as this might just be a sales plot) fighting a fight against the whites ?!?
When is head-to-head on, don’t think I’ve seen it. Superrugby is good though to, I think mainly due to Kobus Wiese he lightens a program up like Darren Scott in the past and they speak slower and I do understand Afrikaans better.
Well, I do not get time to what much TV in any event and seldom catch these programs.
30 Mar 2006, 10:19 am
Nondoda,
Ideally EP, Border and SWD structures should not have a major impact on the SPEARS, since the SPEARS should operate as a seperate entity with little input and support from the three partner unions. If operated this way, they can do business in an open transparent manner (as they have been up to now).
In all fareness, the SPEARS should get preference above the brother (can’t call them sister) unions’ needs.
30 Mar 2006, 10:40 am
Shieldstheband
Your comments about whiteys living behind barbed wire and heading off to shopping malls has to be the most myopic statement ever.
Face reality dude, 4.5 million new black memebers of the middle class live behind barbed wire to. Oh and they also frequent shopping malls.
You say you live in the real SA? What township would that be? Are you in touch with the plight of the common people or did you attend one or two lectures on Political Science while you were at your white liberal university… before you dropped out?
Stop bitching wanker and start making a difference. Your negative attitude is indicitive of a weak character.
30 Mar 2006, 11:34 am
shields…
you are one arrogant arse….
your negativity surprises me
sports and politics should not mix
that is why the sport in south africa is suffering so much because politicians have been interfering in sports
30 Mar 2006, 11:46 am
the same guys that chastise others for failing to consider their supposed “alternative” viewpoint (which has in fact been the mainstream one for as long as anyone can remember) would do well to stop spitting out platitudes for a second and consider the irony of those statements.
As for negativity, how about all those ripping into the government for anything, including alot of made up things. Whats the problem, why are ppl still bitching?
We have a better economy, no more stars on nipples, hell even our rugby is better?
Whats the problem? why the negativity?
30 Mar 2006, 16:10 pm
PA p.28
Good reply – Spears is a symptom of the rugby problem, not the solution. Giving EP the original go ahead based on the mythical & unreliable information on numbers of rugby players provide by vested interests, coupled with EP’s traditional inability to provide admin, coaching, players etc was & is an example of the SARU hierarchy brain fade when under pressure.
30 Mar 2006, 21:51 pm
Stupidity is not reserved merely because
you’re black.
Then again,the US-marines aptitude test seems
to differ.
after A decade more in power our ID’s and passport classification is stil:white,black, coloured,indian and other.
*****,what an inspired,insightfull,
visionary change.
All thats changed is the colour of the hands
that sticks the money in the pockets.
And the smell is worse.
30 Mar 2006, 21:54 pm
oh yes,i almost forgot Labalaba swanatwat
fk you and all.
31 Mar 2006, 06:39 am
Does SARU really have to inflict a gang of useless no-hopers called the Southern Spares on their SANZAR partners just to discover how useless these Spares really are? Do they REALLY not know that by now already? Is there any point in exposing these incompetents to three months of hundred point plus hammerings by the thirteen REAL rugby teams in the competition, just to keep the ANC happy?
I don’t think they should. Send the Spares away with a flea in their ear.
Get Chester Williams to pretend to coach them rather than to pay Chester half a mill a year in real cash to pretend to coach a Bok “A” team which itself only pretends to actually exist.
And the Southern Spares can become a team in the Vodacom Cup who pretend to play rugby just like the not-very-mighty Elephants do.
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