Ashwin out again
17 Apr 2006
Springbok wing Ashwin Willemse is in another race against time to be fit to make Jake White’s World Cup squad for France. He looks unlikely to play any more rugby in 2006.
Arguably the unluckiest rugby player in the country, Willemse tore posterior cruciate ligaments in his left knee near the end of the defeat to the Sharks at Ellis Park on Saturday.
The result of a scan revealed the seriousness of the latest injury and Willemse will be out of action again for between six and 12 months.
It is likely he will have to undergo another operation to repair the damage. Willemse missed most of the 2005 season after having surgery on his ankle. He returned to the Cats squad earlier this year, but missed out on the overseas tour with a hamstring injury.
Saturday’s match was his first Super Rugby game in more than a year. The wisdom of leaving Willemse on the field for the full 80 minutes will surely be questioned. He sustained the injury in the 77th minute of a match that was already well and truly lost. And for those 77 minutes, the former SA rugby Player of the Year had looked a class above the rest on the field.
Willemse had played for the Young Lions in a Vodacom Cup match the previous weekend, but asking the player to last 80 minutes in his comeback match at Super 14 level was too much. He should have played no more than 50 or 60 minutes. Now his entire rugby career hangs in the balance again.
By Andrew Hollely
65 Comments
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17 Apr 2006, 07:59 am
He’s a goneburger and we all know that. And I don’t fancy that he’s any great loss. After all, he’s just a quota player and always was no more than that.
Shall we all just move on?
17 Apr 2006, 08:31 am
Tackles
Agreed he’s a gonner,but give credit he was a fine player.It is however time to move on.
17 Apr 2006, 08:39 am
Was.
Past tense.
Like Jonah Lomu.
17 Apr 2006, 08:42 am
Not quite the same league as Lomu,but gone nevertheless.This must stand as a great example of our fine mismanagement structures in SA.
17 Apr 2006, 09:12 am
What makes him a quota? The fact he’s black?
17 Apr 2006, 09:15 am
That Stoffel is the unfortunate legacy of Quota selections.No player regardless of ability will be seen as a merit selection by many,especially those who have not come to terms with our new political landscape.
17 Apr 2006, 09:20 am
Ashwin was actually the only player in the Cats team who looked good on saturday. Shame he is so injury prone.
17 Apr 2006, 09:31 am
Thought Jacque Fourie tried hard and made a few great defensive plays.
17 Apr 2006, 10:07 am
why the coach felt the need to play him for the full 80 minutes in his first game back escapes me.
17 Apr 2006, 10:08 am
Tackler
Reading some of your posts on a previous thread re Afrikaner traditions. It seems that you were one of those slapgatte who couldnt cut it in the army or with traditions in certain schools.
All those traditions instilled a sense of belonging and discipline. Maybe if todays players had more of that, they would have been more men than mice. All that was abolished or toned down in ’94 when most of todays players were at school. I spent my life in a boys school and two years in thearmy, and yeah I enjouyed it and I am proud of it.
17 Apr 2006, 10:37 am
Ashwin, so skinny you can break him
17 Apr 2006, 10:47 am
Xkreni
PROUD OF THE ARMY….give me a break.
While i understand your idea of the school tradition thing instilling belonging and discipline,school was a tradition and something we learned from ….the army was a **** up and I too spend 2 years in it but i new then and now that it was a lost cause. I got my sense of belonging and discipline from other souces,and jippo’d my way through thick and thing in an embarressing SADF and enjoyed pulling the wool over the idiots eyes of those ‘above’ me. What i hated even more and still do is those english okes that bought into the system for their own short term benefit of more pay and so they could hand out opfoks to those below them as had been done to them.
We are in 2006 now and guys like you are still proud of it.
I pray i never meet you as when I do run into fools who still think like that I can see why they are still losers.
Tackler makes some foolish comments but ‘not being able to ‘cut the army’ is nothing to be ashamed of.
Oh,yes ,and Ashwin played damned well considering his year long lay off. What a shame,we are stioll uncertain of our no 14 spot anyway and I was thinking during the game that Jake might have a point.
It does seem small minded to have attempted to play him for the full game.
17 Apr 2006, 11:07 am
This looks like a new injury and not a recurrence of an old one. How can the caoch be blamed for what appears like a freak accident? Don’t the players also have some responsibility in managing their own fitness and physical well-fare? Surely if Ashwin felt any discomfort before that incident he would have left the field.
17 Apr 2006, 11:19 am
ddrek
Sound like you had a few cluster ***** in your time.
poor little boy.
I seriously doubt that you could even pull the wool over your own eyes.
17 Apr 2006, 11:36 am
Jondoos
Enjoyed the mag did you?
I loved it when i thought of all those boneheads and others who were now out of a job and wondered why their little world vs die swart gevaar wasnt so OK anymore.
The okes were so thick and sold on the idea in Potch Artillery *** end of the world that it pleases me to think some of them are shining shoes now for Mr. Ndungane and the rest.
Bunch of dooses who bought into the system. I bet you miss it ,you know,tjose ;’good old days.When it ws really good being the chosen ones,not havuing to cpomptere fairly with thje rest of th country. Oh how tough it is now.
No boetie I ended up in a sweet deal for the other 18 months ,sleepout pass ,surfing team ,inside a navy camp as an army boy and made more money on the side than any of the boys with pips and stripes ,while the idiots got rank and stayed there afkakking all the while.SADF was the clusterfuk.
Sorry Ig,back to rugby.
Get well Ashwin
17 Apr 2006, 11:40 am
Jondood
I know many a boytjie who has a hard time that they bought into the sytem and cant stand the guys who jippo’d who new it was a lost cause cos they themselves bought into it and feel the foolish ones but can’t accept it.
So did the army really make a man out of you,like mommy said?
17 Apr 2006, 12:21 pm
Tackler, Tackler, Tackler. You’re getting soft and weak.
“I don’t fancy that he’s any great loss. After all, he’s just a quota player and always was no more than that.”
That’s the best you can do? That’s not even good flame-bait! It’s terrible! Usually you give at least what appear to be superficially plausible reasons for your cockamamie claims. This is **** by comparison.
Come on, man. Your troll powers are weakening.
17 Apr 2006, 12:37 pm
I think Ashwell Prince is starting to look like a quota now. Our middle order looks so frail with him there. Please put Jacques Rudolph in ahead of him
17 Apr 2006, 12:57 pm
Those idiots on the muppit league did not put JDV as scoring a try – not that it matters as other players did **** and slowly move down down down – need to make selection for next few weeks but don’t think it will help!!!
17 Apr 2006, 13:21 pm
Can someone just ask JW not to interfere with the super 14 players. I heard from various reliable sources that JW has phoned various players this year and request them Not to injure themselves and NOT give a 100% in the super 14 as they do not have to prove themselves, because they are already chosen for the world cup!!! He also did that last year with the BULLS in the currie cup final. Hence the bad performance of most boks, excluding Bakkies &Juan Smit,”wat hulle gatte aan agterbaksheid afvee” One for Mr Keo, the sharks are not doing so bad after all with Strauli somehwhere in the background.Find out from **** Muir how much he really appreciates Rudolf. One for JAKE WHITE. Sir, as jy met die leeu se B.. speel of gespeel het, moet jy die leeu se BAAS wees. Jy gaan “gefaks” word. Markies, DIE GROOT LEEU, is honger en Lus vir WHITE MEAT!!! I do not think JW will take the boks to the world cup.To much laundry will be washed in the open.
17 Apr 2006, 15:54 pm
Willemse started as a quota player but grabbed his chances to become a Test quality player!
Never shy to put his body on the line despite his fragile structure.
So again, this is the rule: if they come to play rugby, then they don’t last long, see Guttro, Chester, Willemse
17 Apr 2006, 16:15 pm
Onlooker
You speak as if the world is run on “merit”. As if “elitism” is a figment of our collective imagination, the “Old Boy’s Club” is something made up by hairy feminists, the Freemasons stand for equal opportunities and it is always “not who you know, but what you know”.
Give me a break. If you are going to be consistent, then please argue that Affirmative Action is just another form of elitism.
17 Apr 2006, 16:21 pm
Onlooker,
take it from me. Willemse is one of the toughest players to play against.He tackles you and you know. Never complains. Was a “skollie ” in his heyday and can fight with a knife. Knows no pain. same toughess as andre venter, rassie, ruben kruger, joost and james small.
17 Apr 2006, 16:29 pm
I rate Willemse, and I rate him highly, I saw how many tackles he broke against the ABs in 2003!
I also rated Gttro Steenkamp and Chester, fact is they don’t last long.
As opposed to Andrews, Sephaka and Shimanga brigade who last foreever, just replay the tapes and watch closely!
17 Apr 2006, 16:40 pm
Onlooker
Way back in the cruel ’80′s, my dad was told by his white bosses that, even though he was probably the best Chartered Accountant in the country, they had decided that they would never make him Financial Director of the company because he is black. Does my family today use every opportunity to rubbish white achievements in a public forum? No! Do we believe that white people have nothing to offer this country? No! Are we hateful, cruel and vindictive? No!
Today my dad is retired but still has to lecture part-time to maintain his standard of living because he could not accumulate wealth during apartheid. Are we bitter? A bit disappointed maybe, but no, not bitter. We love life and we love G_d and we love people.
Black people in this country have been incredibly magnaninimous. Show a little respect.
17 Apr 2006, 18:25 pm
Tackler:
This is all I got to say:Bull ****.
Ashwin is/was no quota. He is extremely talented and if any of you went through wat had to you wouldn’t have made it out alive. He is one of our best wings and I hope he gets well soon.
Anyway, I love wearing track suits. They’re really comfy.
17 Apr 2006, 18:45 pm
Ashwin is a great commited player, sorry to hear this!
It is starting to look like the beginning of the end of what good have been a truely great player, pity!
17 Apr 2006, 19:33 pm
So true patty.
17 Apr 2006, 20:00 pm
Ashwin was selected on merit but due to his skin colour there was more pressure to play him when he wasn’t fit, eg on the UK tour when he did his leg in. It’s an example of another black talent who was used as a pawn to satisfy political correctness. If there was less pressure to have black players in teams then he would probably have/had a much longer career. Lets hope he recovers full fitness!
17 Apr 2006, 22:21 pm
I am gutted for the dude….well at least he got ot of gang life with rugby. Would love to see him try for 2007!
17 Apr 2006, 22:24 pm
As usual from Tackler: a cowardly hit and run.
He’s not a good troll, and he’s clearly not a reasonable poster. Methinks he may just be a waste of space?
17 Apr 2006, 22:44 pm
Tackler, u one shocking bugger. You must be a Cats and Zuma supporter.
18 Apr 2006, 00:55 am
Of course Ashwin was a quota! Everyone who has enough melanin for the selectors to tick off against their mandatory race quota is, by definition, “a quota”.
That’s not the way I would like it to be, but I don’t make the rules. I’d like all players to be selected on merit.
18 Apr 2006, 01:49 am
Was a great player (fast tracked, but a great Bok).
But, like Greef, he’s too %&^%$&$& injury prone.
18 Apr 2006, 02:37 am
Don’t equivocate, Tackler!
First, you say:
“And I don’t fancy that he’s any great loss. After all, he’s just a quota player and always was no more than that.”
The clear implication is that quota player = poor player. Since Ashwell is a quota player, you suggest, he’s of no worth to the team.
Again, your meaning: quota = bad.
NOW all of a sudden you say:
“Of course Ashwin was a quota! Everyone who has enough melanin for the selectors to tick off against their mandatory race quota is, by definition, “a quotaâ€.”
You see, dear Tackler, this is what we call equivocation. You take two meanings of the same word and, like the duplicitous snake you are, pretend that you meant the second when you actually meant the first.
Here, you imply that “quota” is a neutral word — that it is merely a definition of sorts, and that nothing derogatory is meant by it. A “mandatory race quota” is something poor Ashwin just has to deal with, just like everyone else on his team.
Yet, just a minute ago, you were saying that Ashwin being part of such a quota is insidious! That merely qualifying as “quota” means that you’re useless to your team!
You can’t use two different meanings of a key word in a debate. It’s a copout, and it’s pathetic. Even worse, you’re wrong. Ashwin Willemse was a clear winner as South Africa’s MVP in 2003. He’s big, he’s strong, he’s fast, and he has amazing tactical nous and handling skill, especially when he was young (not so sure now). You see, Willemse has proven two things:
1. That “quota” does not necessarily equal “poor”.
2. That “quota” is irrelevant to a debate regarding his skill or worth to a team.
So shut the **** up.
18 Apr 2006, 02:52 am
Court case in session…very interesting dudes
18 Apr 2006, 02:56 am
Nowhere have I ever said that “quota” ipso facto means “bad”.
Quota simply means quota. Picked to conform to a rule that insists that X number of players are NOT allowed to be white and that they MUST have an adequate supply of melanin.
And, for that reason, ANY and EVERY person who qualifies for the quota is, by definition, a “quota player”.
18 Apr 2006, 03:03 am
Bolla is a “quota player”. Habana is a “quota player”. Ashwin is a “quota player”…
If you want to make laws saying THOU SHALT have X number of “quota players” you simply have to accept that each and every one of these quota players are going to be publicly named.
One day, perhaps, you will come around to my way of thinking which is that there ought to be absolutely NO quota players. And that each and every player is there on nothing other than merit.
But it doesn’t appear that South Africa is quite ready for that level of non-racialism yet.
They’d far rather cling on to the idea of “quota players” and the whole “let’s pretend” nonsense…
Well, you boys make your bed, but then be prepared to sleep on it!
18 Apr 2006, 03:58 am
Tacler, go read the Treaty of Waitangi, we’re trying to doodooo down here!
18 Apr 2006, 03:59 am
Nitey settlers!
18 Apr 2006, 04:35 am
Ashwin…. eighteen months off, seventy minutes on….
18 Apr 2006, 05:11 am
Tackler:
It’s amusing to watch you flounder after the fact.
I quoted you directly. Took the words right out of your mouth. Showed you exactly where, how, and why you equivocated.
You can struggle until you’re blue now – you’ve simply been hung by your own noose.
See, even in your sad attempt to worm your way out of your own constrictions here at the end, you commit the same fallacy.
You see, nobody is arguing that “quota players” don’t exist. What we find fault with is this logical construction of yours:
Merit equals good. (this is fair)
Quota cannot equal merit. (ridiculous statement)
Therefore, quota cannot equal good. (preposterous claim)
And, stretching that further:
Habana, Willemse and Bolla are quota.
Quota cannot equal good.
Therefore, Habana, Williams and Bolla cannot equal good.
That final statement, as is obvious, is blatantly ridiculous. YET THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. Your OWN words have made this claim clear.
But now, when you realize how stupid you sound, you try to back out and limit “quota” to a new definition. Yet, somehow, even in your backtracking here, you’re still stepping in the slagysters.
Give it up, Tackler. You’re a phony.
18 Apr 2006, 08:12 am
Quota CAN occasionally equal good. More often as not, it equals inferior rubbish. There’s probably no accurate way of telling because quota NEVER means merit.
But quota always means quota.
18 Apr 2006, 08:37 am
Al die poepolle wat laasweek in hul broeke gekak het toe ek gesê het hy gaan in die helfte gebreek word: daar het julle dit. Useless Willemse se tyd IS verby.
18 Apr 2006, 08:38 am
Player of the year 2003 was a long time ago. Seems it was a flash in the pan. The Cats need to realise that he’s finished and to stop investing money is old used parts.
18 Apr 2006, 08:41 am
Sampioenman there were a whole bunch of whining liberals screaming at us about how fantastic he was. I also said we would say, “I told you so” when he inevitably got broken in half playing rugby at this level.
cab, why are you so quiet?
18 Apr 2006, 08:48 am
Hi Predawn. Cab’s taken refuge in a hole somewhere, I would too after all the **** that he spewed forth last week.
18 Apr 2006, 09:04 am
Typical South Africans..old habits die hard. One needs to pracice looking out of both eyes.
18 Apr 2006, 09:30 am
Ah, but Tackler, how is this possible?
“Quota CAN occasionally equal good… There’s probably no accurate way of telling because quota NEVER means merit.”
But you established earlier, via your own logic, that merit = good. Now you’re saying that, despite the fact that you ADMIT (for the first time) that quota sometimes = good, quota never = merit?
That’s logically inconsistent. Following your OWN reasoning, it should read that quota sometimes = merit. And, indeed, this is the truth.
You see how you’ve worked yourself into a corner? Can you huff and puff without blatantly contradicting yourself?
You see, I explained to you months ago how it works. A player gets into the team by merit (best in his position). That player is non-white. That player fills a quota position. You see how simple it is for quota to equal merit?
But of course you do! Because you just admitted it via your own logic. Yet on the surface, you try to claim otherwise.
What, are all those sheep ******* with your head, or is that all you’ve got?
18 Apr 2006, 10:40 am
i dont believe it, horrendous.
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