Mitch judges SA’s teams
27 Apr 2006
John Mitchell has given his verdict on South Africa’s five Vodacom Super 14 franchises.
Speaking on Boots&All, Mitch was asked to comment on the local teams. Here’s what he said:
Mitch on the Bulls
“Their scrum is not what it used to be. The Bulls tighthead doesn’t ask the questions of you that certain players did in the past.
“They’d ask far more questions on attack if their flyhalves attacked the inside channels more. Both Morne Steyn and Derick Hougaard take the ball very deep and don’t ask much of the defence.”
Mitch on the Stormers
“I’ve been absolutely impressed with Luke Watson. He’s been phenomenel. Their back row performs well and they just haven’t clicked yet. But when they do they’ll be a very tough prospect.”
Mitch on the Cheetahs
“I spoke to Rassie preseason when he brought the Cheetahs to Perth, and even then I could see they would be a force in the competition. He’s done a fantastic job and their status as Currie Cup champions attests to their quality.”
Mitch on the Cats
“The Cats fixture will be tough, a lot of guys have never played at altitude. We’re in for a different kind of contest.
“They’ve got really good set piece, possibly at times a bit of skill execution under pressure lets them down, but they’re not afraid to try things. Andre Pretorius will make a big difference when he hits his stride.”
Mitch on the Sharks
“Tony Brown has made a massive difference at 10. Their forward unit is very competitive and their backline can score tries from anywhere.”
34 Comments
27 Apr 2006, 20:26 pm
I guess it was a slow day on the newsfront in good old SA. Seems to me like everybody is in bed already over there.
27 Apr 2006, 20:37 pm
Was a public holiday. Everybody is out braaing
27 Apr 2006, 20:46 pm
Big Apple – nobody’s in bed yet but Boots ‘n All is pretty much a must. Having Mitchell on is or was a big plus.
The fact of the matter is that Mitchell coached the All blacks successfully between 2001 and 2003, now coaches the Western Force who may well not finish at the bottom of the log.
27 Apr 2006, 20:57 pm
interesting comments, my guess;
he is blowing smoke up our asses.
27 Apr 2006, 20:59 pm
Mitchell is correct about Watson: a rare talent that materialsed, he is right about AP too: best flyhalf in SA
Luke Watson is well be advised to play out his contract at WP and then head for Oz, unfortunately for him and for SA Rugby, ‘stalwarts’ such as Dulane and Solly are pencilled in as first ‘replacements’ for the open side already, Luke must be aware of it too!
27 Apr 2006, 22:40 pm
green smoke hey Pissant….he could have been way more frank!
27 Apr 2006, 22:51 pm
Mitchell seems like a really top-notch bloke.
Another reason to loathe the Aussies.
That said – here are a few thoughts I’ve been toying with over the last couple of seasons of super rugby. Would really like to hear what you all think.
As a SOUTH AFRICAN, I have asked myself the question: What is most important to me as a rugby supporter. What do I really cherish in rugby. My first answer has to be “when the Springboks play wellâ€. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than seeing our boys in the Green and Gold thrashing opponents. Or if they lose, that they lose with ‘honour’, going down fighting etc. Beating the Australia, the All Blacks, England, the Lions [in no particular order… ok especially Duckface Larkham and Gregan] just makes my year. My season. My life. Thank you Jake White.
So, most important – the Springboks.
Numero Uno.
[I sincerely hope we can all agree on this… Blue Bull fans as well.]
Right, what next? After the Springboks, what gives me the most satisfaction? Now I must be honest, at times, my second choice changes depending on how well my team is doing in whichever particular competition at the moment that I pose that question [I speak to myself regularly] – by this I mean either the CC or the S14. Not really objective reasoning on my part, but I am after all human – and its easier to enjoy something when your team is doing really well. Having said that, I remain a true supporter through thick and thin, good and bad. But – I must state that my love for either has wavered depending on whether or not my team is getting their arses handed to them on a plate, so to speak, week in and week out. Regardless, does this alone decide which of the two competitions I place, next in line, after my first love for test rugby? Well no.
Because the more I thought about it, the more I realised that CC is what I grew up with. Before the Springboks were allowed back into the rest of the world, the CC was all we had. A bit like the Benson and Hedges Night Cricket games [anyone remember those?] – the Currie Cup WAS my Test Rugby. It was the most nail-biting stuff I had ever seen. Legends, nay – gods – played rugby in those days. I am convinced that this is why we have such a huge problem with provincialism vs nationalism in our rugby – that, and the ‘small’ matter of our history, politics, eating habits, drinking habits, and differences of opinion regarding whether ‘Dropzone’ or ‘Forries’ constitutes a good drinking hole. But that debate is to be left to a later date.
So, with due consideration the CC is my favourite. It is the one I attach more pride to because with the Currie Cup comes bragging rights. Yes. Bragging Rights. I don’t get to meet all that many Kiwis or Aussies [thank God] or Brits on a regular occasion – but I’m constantly mixing with rugby supporters from other parts of the country. To win the CC, gives me an ENTIRE year to constantly rip off the poor, arrogant ******* that works with me, that was so convinced his team would take the Cup home. I never enjoy this luxury in the S14 [they want to bring a cup into the competition now… where’s the tradition in that?]. Bragging rights are of course an integral part of any sport. That and the minor heart attacks we constantly suffer – and of course all the other stuff that sports journo’s far more qualified than me wax lyrical about every week. That and tradition. You gotta love the Currie Cup [what what].
So – is it not a simple case of putting Test rugby and the Springboks first, then the CC, and THEN the S14? This appears to be what I’m getting at – right?
Well no.
Because the S14 is international. Which means that my team, and my pride, be it as a South African and whichever province/city I [as the proverbial supporter] happen to be closest too, is attached, in a sort of ‘regional’ way, to the performance of my team. I have to listen to Phil Kearns and Murray “I want to have Richie McCaw’s children†Mexted rubbish our sides when they play badly. I have to watch their ‘Reunion’ and other Aus Rugby shows, where the presenters scoff at any thoughts of a SA team even dreaming of beating a Kiwi or Aus team. And I have to hear the results of surveys where all the dirtiest players are South African, where SA’s boys aren’t even mentioned on the ‘feared’ list, and that all their players hate Pretoria [It’s got Steve for crying out loud!]
So what now. I want to put the CC next on the list, behind Test Rugby – but my pride gets in the way, and the ‘international’ aspect of Super Rugby keeps on bobbing its ugly little head up. So I put S14 next on the list. And then our teams get killed. Week in, week out, year after year after year. Then comes the 3N, and some pride is restored [only recently], and then comes the Currie Cup, as a sort of consolation prize. And even this gets messed up, because all our top players get hammered before they have to go off on the end of year tour, and then we start talking about relegating the importance of the CC in order to preserve our stars for Springboks, 3N’s and Super rugby. And this is where my actual point gets made [bless all those who are still reading] – we have to make a mindset change. A huge one. But I cannot help thinking it’s the right one.
Take the following ‘steps’ with me. We LOVE the Springboks, test rugby, tours and the 3N. Its number one. We LOVE CC for the tradition and the bragging rights, and because in spite of the rainbow nation – SA is still sometimes 5 countries in one… the boerewors, banana curtain et al. We have it all, we had it all, and yet, in the space of 10 odd years, we are willing to throw away all the tradition of a competition that’s been going since before Doc Craven – and for what? A competition forced on us by money greedy administrators? The concept is beautiful, and has revolutionised rugby without a doubt. But in spite of all the good it has brought – we just cannot seem to hack it. Now the reasons for this, are numerous. And have been debated at length. And now is not the place. But one thing I am convinced of, is that we are NEVER going to dominate the Super 14. Ever. We might, might, MIGHT win one year. Maybe. But for whatever reason, Australia and New Zealand have got it taped. All we end up doing, is year in and year out, getting our hopes up – only to see them smashed to smithereens. Then we leave it to the poor national coach to pick up the pieces and hopefully get it all working in time for the 3N. We are always on the backfoot before we even get close to the 3N. By the time our players get up for national duty, they have to play against a bunch of players who might have put 30/40 points past them a few weeks earlier. Sure, some of those games might have gone the other way, with one or two of our teams actually pulling of the odd win – but a glance at the tournaments history, and the averages involved – well, they speak for themselves. We suck at the S14, and as much as the players mindset changes by the time they get to the Springbok camp, some of the residue from the S14 must get taken with them. This cannot do us any good.
So what am I proposing? Well, in short – some arrogance on our side. Its about time that we took a step back and analysed what SHOULD be important to us as South African rugby supporters. The answer to this lies in my preceding paragraphs.
Firstly, the Springboks must play at a level befitting their ranking. As the best side in the World barring the current All Blacks. And our goals, our expectations, should be to attain the same heights that the touring Springboks of yesteryear achieved. Of respect. Of opponents fearing our arrival. The Springbok deserves again to be held in the same reverence as that of the Silver Fern. We had it before. We will find it again. So we must set our goals to again become number one. And to remain number one. It might be far off still, but we can never give up on that as being our ultimate aim.
Secondly, our own tradition should not step back for anyone of anything. Especially not the power of money. We have the Currie Cup, a competition so steeped in history and glories of past achievements that I get all misty just thinking about it. I don’t think South Africans fully appreciate the magnificence of that beautiful trophy, and its rightful place in World Rugby History. We owe it to all the past heroes to uphold it as a bastion of all that is good about the game of rugby. It is only through such internal strength that our National Rugby can continue growing. It is no coincidence [much as I hate to bring this in here] that Australia remain number 1 in test cricket (by a HUGE margin), with their local provincial competition being as strong as it is. We need to remind ourselves of the importance of the CC, and we cannot ignore it as we seemingly have been over the last couple of seasons. Danger lights are flashing – and yet no-one seems to be noticing.
If we can convince ourselves that the above order is correct, of Springboks and then the CC being first and foremost our main concern – where then does this leave our S14 attempts? Now for the huge leap of faith. I suggest that we start looking at the S14, not as an end to a means, but as a means to an end. That ‘end’, should be world domination for the Springboks. Please, for those kind souls still reading – bare with me. All rugby players agree that the S14 is a close to test rugby as one can get. Read that sentence again. What better opportunity can exist to blood new young players, and prepare them for international and Currie Cup success [assuming you buy into the ‘order’ of importance espoused above], than the S14? Why don’t we STOP thinking of the Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup as a feeder for the S14, but instead start looking at it the other way around? Crazy!? But is it really?
If you put the entire Cats Vodacom team into the S14 – they would get smashed. What would be the difference from what we are seeing now? The ONLY barometer we should measure our rugby on, is how the Springboks play… So let me ask you this hypothetical question: Assume that this year the Springboks win every single 3N game by more than 10 points, and score on average 3 tries a game – purely from backline moves. And then next year, we win the World Cup. At the same time, our BEST team in the S14, next year, does worse than what the Cats did this year. Do you think anyone would care? If we slaughtered National Opposition with the Boks, and played the most beautiful, beautiful running rugby in the Currie Cup – would anyone care what team played in the Super 14. Sanzar would, because a drop in quality would supposedly see less attendance. But with SA having the largest rugby support attendance in the S14 in any case – when was the last time anyone saw a full stadium during all the local games? What would the difference be to the coffers if fewer people showed up to S14 games, but instead completely packed all the Currie Cup games to the absolute rafters? Sanzar would complain – but is that our problem? Or the administrators?
Now I know that plenty of people, assuming they actually take the time to read all of this will dismiss it as a utter waste of space, since the current order of things is that we measure our players against foreign teams in the S14, thereby blooding them and preparing them for international tests… But is this the only logical way to assure success at an international level. I don’t think so. I honestly believe that I powerful internal league such as the CC would suffice, and its levels would be adequately raised to the exposure of the youngsters to S14 rugby. I’m not advocating throwing young un’s to the wolves – but rather a change in focus. If the coaches, players and supporters saw S14 as subservient to CC and Springboks, and as RSA cleverly using the S14 to improve the level of competition in the CC, instead of the other way around – would that be so bad? My underlying point of departure remains that we reverse the order, and USE the S14 to our advantage, on our terms, to bolster – as we see fit – the Currie Cup and ultimately the Springboks. The current status quo is NOT improving anything in SA Rugby, ergo ANYTHING else might just be an improvement.
Therefore, my remaining 5 cents worth regarding the Sharks and Bulls. Sharks travel better, and appear to have the easier run-in with there remaining games. Therefore, from a purely South African viewpoint – I hope they win on Saturday, as they should have a better chance of making the finals.
However, in light of what I’ve said above – we should all be looking ahead to the 3N and reason as follows: We want a quality 3N, Currie Cup and end of year tour, AND we want to sort out potential squad members for the World Cup. So, screw the S14, rest our mainline boks and give them to Jake to start preparing. Send in the youngsters and tell them to go have a blast. Tell the supporters to expect the boys to start running from out of the dead-ball area, and dedicate the game to the gods of running-rugby. Protect our players from more moral-sapping losses, let the Aussies and Kiwis kill each other in the semi’s and finals – and give Jake the time he so desperately needs. Then – kick the Kiwi’s and Aussies arses in the 3N, and bring that other cup home!
Use it – don’t use it. But let me know what you think!
27 Apr 2006, 22:53 pm
Greenbok…..you should publish a book mate, good words
28 Apr 2006, 00:16 am
greenbok…nice piece….sitting at Cincinnati airport having a beer…brings back memories of sitting at Newlands….Agie Koch…Niel Burger…Robbie Blair…Michael Dup killing NTVL in CC final…to me and my brother Agie was a god man…anyone know where he’s at?
28 Apr 2006, 06:19 am
Greenbok, I think…. interesting read,thanks.
Bull’s fans think…. oops oxymoronic, they would have lost concentration after the first paragraph and pressed End to scroll down!
28 Apr 2006, 07:45 am
s14 feeder into currie cup? That was just an unnecessarily long piece of rubbish. save our downloading time and go write on your own blog.
28 Apr 2006, 08:28 am
Greenbok,
Great stuff!!
Agree 100%
What about starting even further down the line and try get club rugby were it was many years ago!! Watched a replay of a tukkies/maties intervarsity at loftus 1977 or something… packed loftus with 20 springboks playing.. awesome!!!
28 Apr 2006, 08:52 am
Geenbok,
Impressive and well put together piece. Unfortunately the logic is flawed——You have to live in the real world.
Have faith you saffa’s—You do have many,many talented players.S14 success will come.
It’s the admin/internal politics/provincialism that lets SA rugby down.
Here in NZ we say a Jappie grows 6inches and puffs out his chest and 3 inches when he puts on the Bok Jersy.
28 Apr 2006, 09:04 am
As long as the CC and international commitments overlap it won’t work to place the CC above the S14. If all the Boks are available for the CC all the time – like in the S14 – then maybe.
28 Apr 2006, 09:31 am
greenbok your post to long wont waste time reading it.
Nothing gives me more pleasure than the whole s.a play against the great bulls
28 Apr 2006, 09:46 am
Went to a do in Perth about a month ago and Mithcell was the guest of honour, he’s prediction of WC07 is no.1 Kiwis, no.2 Bokke and no.3 France
28 Apr 2006, 10:07 am
Moegrat, thats exactly why I am going to watch the final. The world order the way it should be.
All Blacks v Boks for the world cup. May the best team win.
Clearly that will be the Boks.
28 Apr 2006, 10:40 am
This oke is a fantastic coach, agree with all of his comments, especially on Bulls pack and deep flyhalves, quite amazed he rates Watson that highly, perhaps Chris on Keo’s team, has a point with all those “positive contributions”.
28 Apr 2006, 10:42 am
amusing stuff Cane.
28 Apr 2006, 11:15 am
If Luke Watson is not given a Bok cap this year, then I am starting some massive anti JW brigade next year.
28 Apr 2006, 12:12 pm
watson only looks great cos he playing in kak team
28 Apr 2006, 12:23 pm
Drunkmonkey
surely it is more difficult to look good in a kuk team?
28 Apr 2006, 13:26 pm
What is it with this “… questions asked on …” nonsense? Even Jake White talks like this. Is die ouens dof of wat?! Surely there must be better more intelligent ways of bringing those points accross. What about “… they are not competitive enough in …” or “… not strong/skilled/fit/fast/ enough …”? Duh!
28 Apr 2006, 13:37 pm
dogboy, don’t confuse drunkmonkey with facts and logic.
28 Apr 2006, 13:52 pm
If Luke Watson is not a Bok this year. then I shall also become a ant JW!
28 Apr 2006, 14:14 pm
What im saying is watsoname wont make Bulls team …. pedrie and spies better than him. He would anyway look like a kak rugby player in bulls team.
28 Apr 2006, 14:23 pm
i think schalk burger should be given a bit of a rest and let Watson start the games. I have watched schalk of late, and he just isnt doing it for me at the moment. I ger so annoyed when he takes the ball up and does this huge jump in the air before he takes the hit! He needs to just run hard and low.
bench time will bring back the Schalk that shook world rugby a year or so ago.
He could be so much better than Ritchie. I am though at a disadvantage coz down in london we dont get to see enuff southern hem rugby,So to comment on guys like solly and dulane.would not be right. But on the othe rhand i think solly aint to bad, he looks like a grafter bit size wise i think he needs a bit more of that and a bit more strength.
I agree with greenbok,excellent stuff.We need to give the boks a chance to rest,and let the youngsters do their thing.Even if they get a hiding they will cherish the experience and work harder to be a part of their respective starting 15′s.Which can only be good for SA rugby in the long run.
28 Apr 2006, 16:03 pm
Greenbok
You posted a long piece, but really didn’t say a lot.
There’s a lot of repetitive or recurring themes/ideas in your posting about the importance of the S14/Currie Cup and Springbok matches.
You’re of the opinion that:
1) CC is more important than S14 – based on it’s heritage
2) S14 must be use as a feeder system to blood talent – this is already happening
I need to put this question to you: If our teams really played well in S14, would you still have held this opinion?
I doubt it – your piece is indicative of a person that gave up on the S14 because of our teams’ poor showing. Now you’re suggesting that we need to concentrate more on Springbok rugby and CC than S14.
A valid point you made is that players from the S14 carry some of their bad habits/performances to the Springbok team. In this department Jake White really excelled to make our team not only competitive but turn them into a world-beaters. However at some point of the other he’s going to feel the strain, if not already, of players suffering from fatigue or not having the right mindset.
Greenbok, I really feel for you, when your team is playing dismally then your day is also spoilt. Believe me I know that feeling. I was only too wise to educate myself to learn that bad habit off. Yes, every now and then I still feel bad after my team has suffered a humiliating loss, but at least I control it much better.
Finally, I’m going to (respectfully) disagree on your view that S14 only significance is to blood talent. S14 is international rugby. It’s whereby we (supposedly) showcase our best local players against the best overseas players. Regrettably our teams are not doing well. Our players and coaches need to get a wake up call.
28 Apr 2006, 18:15 pm
Greenbok.
Disagree in part, but fully with you in terms of valuing our own traditions. Rugby ultimately is not about money.It’s far more important. You are a rugby man. Cheers.
28 Apr 2006, 19:56 pm
Well with luke watson going to the force maybe now he cam get the recognition he didn’t get @ the Sharks or the stormers. guess the international jersey will be yellow now as well. aka: rathbone. yet another lose to SA rugby- keep up the good work boys.
29 Apr 2006, 06:37 am
Who sez Luke Watson is moving to Oz to play for the Wobblies?
It’s a rumour.
29 Apr 2006, 07:08 am
Greenbok,
I’m astonished to read that you lot rate the Super 14 above the Currie Cup. Should be the other way round.
I think you are right to bemoan the loss of tradition and much of the old format. Believe it or not, we have the same problem in Australia where club rugby in Sydney and Brisbnae has been shamefully degraded. I guess its the onset of professionalism. I have two other points to make:
- NZ are top of the world rankings and have the best super 14 teams. No coincidence. South Africa are in the pack with Aus, France and England. SA will stay there until they can do better at super 14 and away from home. From where I sit, you have bpoth the talent and the depth.
- Be lucky you aren’t an Aus rugby supporter who has to sit through seeing his game dragged around by deadshit agents and chancers i.e. the giteau and gasnier sagas.
29 Apr 2006, 08:22 am
tackler can’t see it happening myself unless he has a grand parent like Rathbone and Vickermann. 3 to 4 years is a long waiting period to qualify for another country plus you earn less if you can’t be selected for the wallabies.
29 Apr 2006, 08:23 am
greenbok, shorter paragraphs mate. gave me a bit of a headache reading that.
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