Leave Habana on the wing
8 May 2006
Jake White is toying with the idea of Bryan Habana as a centre. NO JAKE. Leave him on the wing.
The Rapport newspaper, following an interview with White, speculated that a Habana move infield was on the cards to give the Bok backline more creativity. Hopefully White was throwing a bit of bait and isn’t serious. If ever we needed reminding of just who should be playing at No 13 for the Springboks Jaque Fourie reinforced the view that he is as good as any outside centre in the game.
When White played Jean de Villiers and Fourie as his test midfield combination, they were comfortably the best option we have seen in Bok rugby for some time.
There seems a reluctance to play our best players in their best positions. And it is ridiculous. The Cats wasted Fourie on the wing for much of the Super 14 and the Stormers also sent De Villiers back to the wing to accommodate De Wet Barry at inside centre.
De Villiers is our most creative inside back and it is time he is entrusted unreservedly with this role. Outside of him Fourie provides the perfect foil. Shifting Habana infield would negate his impact. He needs space and his strength is his finishing and not his creativity. To borrow from soccer to emphasise the point, we don’t need to turn one of the best strikers into a decent midfielder.
If Habana is to be moved from the wing, then the position to give him a run at is fullback. He has a good kicking game, he understands defence and his pace will be maximised and not stifled if wearing No 15.
Marius Joubert showed he is trading on yesterday’s headlines against the Sharks, while Barry was honest without ever being influential in the final 10 minute flurry when the Stormers could not create anything to break down the Sharks defence.
Of the other midfielders on display Ronnie Cooke is an exciting prospect at No 13, but he is not better than what’s there at the moment (read Fourie) and Brad Barrit has something special about his play as an inside centre option.
But to shift Habana now would be dangerous and White would be making the same mistake John Hart made when he moved Christian Cullen from fullback to wing and then to centre for the 1999 World Cup. Cullen was not bad at centre, but he would have been so much better at fullback. The same applies to Habana. He would never disappoint playing at No 13, but he would not be the factor he is at No 11.
Keep your best finisher on the wing Jake.
191 Comments
8 May 2006, 06:17 am
If the Springbok coach had any influence the Bulls would have played Habana at centre during the Super 14 and we would have gotten a chance to see him play there. It’s not a bad idea but it should have been done already and not in the international season. Although in a squad system with so many games over the next few months it would be worth seeing. De Villiers and Fourie can’t play ten consecutive games.
8 May 2006, 06:30 am
I must admit I tend to agree. Although I am not convinced about JDV at centre I think BH is more value on the wing. The only issue then will be getting the ball to him.
I think Barrit looks extremely promising as well as Ronnie Cooke although I think RC may be a bit small for 13 perhaps not for 12.
In terms of future centre pairings I would really like to see Meyer Bosman spend some time at 12 if only to get him ready for flyhalf and perhaps in the TN just after the world cup we could be looking at
10 Meyer Bosman
12 Brad Barrit
13 Ronnie Cooke
?????
8 May 2006, 06:34 am
Move Habana to Fly half and he may see some ball!
8 May 2006, 06:35 am
or better yet prop!! Although he did pl;ay scrumhalf at school I beleive.
8 May 2006, 06:41 am
That’s interesting he may be better closer to the action. I would love to see him in a team that could preserve space and allow him to demonstrate his flair.
8 May 2006, 06:44 am
I think the 15 suggestion is not a bad one at all. His defence is great and at 15 he could join the line from either side and be running some really good angles at speed.
8 May 2006, 07:02 am
Keo – Weren’t you the one bitching about JDV’s defence in the midfield? In all honesty, I really rate JDV as an attacking centre, but that Stormers midfield looked a lot more solid with Barry there. If only JDV could learn to defend a little better…
8 May 2006, 07:04 am
Madness, Habana’s problem is that he has very little creativity. Unless he gets an intercept or has a clear straight run he stuffs it up.
The first thing he looks to do when faced with a one on one situation with a class opposition wing is to put the ball on boot and chip and chase.
The opposition have worked him out.
8 May 2006, 07:12 am
Harry D,
Last season I would have agreed with you but this season I have seen Habana doa bit of stepping. Not that much as he hasn’t had the ball but certainly he has been working on that aspect of his game. He does still like the chip kick though and p[erhaps an even better reason to have him at no 15, the opportunity to chip and chase and have clear straight runs?
8 May 2006, 07:20 am
I totally disagree,keo
People tend 2 forget that it was @ no13 where habana made his mark in a team setup where running rugby was the name of the game.He does the moves with pace&that is sure to add a new dimension 2 our backline play.
Also keo,I don’t believe that its jake’s plan 2 play habana ahead of jaque f.He probably wants 2 see how he does@13.If jaque does get injured in say the 3nations at least he’ll know where he can turn 2.Rather play him @13 vs the world 15 or scotts &see how he does that throw him in @the deep end against the aussies&all blacks.And please,forget about marius.He does not deserve 2 b anywhere close 2 the bok team.He has been out of form for a couple of years now.
8 May 2006, 07:20 am
Saffa I am not convinced that he has what is required for an international class center.
Do you think that the ‘bit of stepping’ he has shown this season is enough?
8 May 2006, 07:23 am
Harry D you miss my point. I am not saying he should be at centre but at Fullback. no 15.
8 May 2006, 07:27 am
saffa – I would love to see Habana at 15. I think he’d be extremely dangerous joining the line and we could see many long range tries from him. Good idea…
8 May 2006, 07:33 am
What’s wrong with Habana in Centre??? If Habana was white or would he then ‘deserve’ a place at centre?
8 May 2006, 07:35 am
Edwill – that’s just a phukin stupid thing to say. **** off with that racist bullshit. It’s too early in the morning to be dealing with the race card…. ****!
8 May 2006, 07:36 am
If I was the bok backline coach and not subject to any selection pressures my backline would look like this
9 FDP (with a rocket up his a$#e to get quicker distribution)
10 Jaco v/d West
11 Jean de Villiers
12 Meyer Bosman (goal kicker)
13 Jacques Fourie
14 JP Pietersen (not sure but maybe)
15 Bryan Habana
8 May 2006, 07:38 am
Frazer thats a typical Edwill statement.We have had more than 10 years of democracy.People died for this cause and then you get people like yourself who still moan.If you havent made it in 10 years you never will.
8 May 2006, 07:38 am
Frazer
Habana made his name playing centre. You guys are now outraged that Jean must play wing. Why are you not outraged that Habana must play wing?
8 May 2006, 07:40 am
Edwil dont be like tackler, it’s got nothing to do with race would u play os at flank?? leave the best winger in the world on the wing!!! it only makes sense. SA is the only country were our best opensider plays blindside(schalk at the stormers) and now our best wing is going to be a centre. dont do it, let jaque play. maybe JDV on the wing until he improves his tackling!?
8 May 2006, 07:45 am
Futurebok its a excuse that he falls back on because he cant cut it in the real world.He will use it till the day he dies.
8 May 2006, 07:46 am
There’s nothing wrong with Jean’s tackling. Its his commitment that’s lacking.
Schalk Burger is not an openside flanker. He doesn’t play like one and he’s too big. If you look at the games closely, he gets beaten to the ball alot. And by the way, if he is playing a openside flanker, wouldn’t it make sense to play him right across from his opposition?
I’m just saying. You guys can’t fathom moving Jean and Jacque to the wing but are quite settled to push Habana to the wing. Habana scored more spectacular tries at centre than at wing.
8 May 2006, 07:46 am
bliksem
hahahaa. I can’t cut it in the real world. Get your facts straight.
8 May 2006, 07:47 am
So, please explain to me why Bryan can’t play at centre even for one game?
8 May 2006, 07:48 am
Edwill I am really not interested in having a discussion with you.Enjoy your life.Cheers
8 May 2006, 07:48 am
Edwill,
I am quite happy to move Jean to the wing but I think JF is probably our best bet at 13. I must confess I don’t think Jean has lived up to the Hype but he is a very good winger.
I have never seen Hababn play at centre and can only comment on that I think he would be great at Fullback.
I also don’t understand the colour issue, since when has centre been a whites only position?
8 May 2006, 07:57 am
Saffa
Look at the history. Habana made his name playing centre. He then moves to the Bulls and they can’t think of putting him, even for one game at centre…just one.
Jean is not a winger. He is an inside centre. But the gameplans are not suiting him. The coach, Jake included, think because he is big, he should crash the ball up alot. He played his best rugby under Carel du Plessis who taught him how to create space. Now he is taught to run into people. Jean de Villiers is as outspoken as Luke Watson. If he doesn’t feel to play for a coach, he won’t.
I still need someone to tell me, why Habana can’t play at centre. His try ratio is better when he played centre than at wing.
8 May 2006, 08:04 am
habana did play centre for the bulls in last years super 12 for a game or 2, he didnt do to well.
anyway, we have centres at the moment but are short wings. leave him there, he has done well.
what about gaffie on the other wing this year for the boks?
8 May 2006, 08:06 am
Knersboy.
Jean, Jacque, De Wet, Marius, Wynand and JP have played more than a game or 2 not very well. So I don’t think that’s a good enough reason. Bryan Habana’s favourite position is outside centre. The man went on TV and said it himself. He modelled his whole game on Brian O’Driscoll.
8 May 2006, 08:14 am
yeah i hear you edwill, but the thing is that we are short on wings for the boks and i would rather see habana on the wing than fourie, because habana he has more pace.
8 May 2006, 08:15 am
i wish we had 1 more habana, like the ndungane twins, or the underwoods.
8 May 2006, 08:17 am
edwill, has habana actually played @ centre 4 the boks?? i dont think so … correct me if im wrong bru. u cannot compare his try ratio (centre vs wing) if he hasnt played @ 13 yet. + if ur refering 2 currie cup then all good + well, but hell that comp aint wot it used 2 b.
8 May 2006, 08:19 am
Edwill – Habana is still our best option at wing. I believe a wing should have blinding pace and that’s what Habana has. I don’t believe that JDV has blinding pace, but he is an excellent playmaker, so he would be wasted on the wing. Jaque Fourie is without out doubt our best option at 13 and he proved that on the weekend.
8 May 2006, 08:24 am
Leave Habana in a ditch rather. The oke is useless this year. How many tries has he scored ? 1, 2 ?
After the Lensing deal, okes like Habana the Useless will probably be demanding millions to play, and then under perform in any case.
Should we not be resting all Springboks now already with the semis chance out of the window ?
Soon,we’ll be hearing about how tired the Bokke are. Now is the perfect opportunity to rest the whole miserable lot.
8 May 2006, 08:25 am
You know what, you guys have been accusing me of racism and disagree that Habana shouldn’t be moved to centre. It just shows, you guys don’t even want to think of Habana being at centre, even just for two games against the Scots.
8 May 2006, 08:26 am
if u think about it we havent seen much from the bok backline players during the super 14. de villiers and fourie have been moved around a lot and playing in loosing teams, habana hasn’t got the ball that much.
imo percy has shown why he is first choice, 7 tries so far in super 14, not bad. now we just need ricky to wake up a bit, i think fourie is coming back to his best and jaco is still my first choice number 10.
8 May 2006, 08:28 am
edwill, all players in a rugby team are valuable. You don’t push a player to the wing because he’s bad or being demoted, and centre is not better than wing.
I reckon the reason you would keep him on the wing or #15 is because he’s a player how can use space very well. Playing at #15 would mean that he spends more time in his own backline too!!
Cullen excelled at 15 because he had room there, he was wasted at centre
Centres also have become a lot bigger recently, putting in big hits and involved more in a loose forward type of role at the breakdown. I’m not sure that is Habanas forte
8 May 2006, 08:29 am
Blueblood – Maybe if your useless team could figure out how to create space for their wings and get the pill to them, he would have scored more tries this year.
Edwill – I think you’ll find that you were the one accusing everyone else of racism. Before you brought that up, nobody was thinking about race.
8 May 2006, 08:33 am
Edwill, relax man, i like your idea of him being given a go against the likes of scotland. if he were to play centre, what would your backline be. i think.
9) du preez
10) jaco
11) fourie
12) de villiers
13) habana
14) paulse/gaffie
15) percy
with a back 3 like percy, fourie and gaffie/paulse u have 3 guys who can effectively play fullback, i.e. good under the high ball etc etc.
8 May 2006, 08:37 am
Edwill
Habana made his name at wing for the u/21 , he’s played a few games at centre for Lions,
I saw Linstroom Manuals over the weekend as ref for school’s rugby, the ball was kicked into touch , caught by an spectator , given to a player that took a quick line out,his call was , scrum the ball was not put in straight.
On the same point the lines man for the bulls game was pathetic. Jako should have had a yellow and so the wing of crusaders on 2 occasions , which means a red.
Our refs are a joke to the world
8 May 2006, 08:39 am
GREAT MOVE — he would be just awesome at 13, his pace would carve up the best defense, he only needs a half gap, this is his best position.
How often do you see a centre break and then he is caught from behind because of lack of pace? WONT HAPPEN WITH BRIAN
8 May 2006, 08:39 am
Keo,
Remember my hypothesis I emailed you a week or two ago?
Some of your concerns were:
Crusader not to score a point at Newlands.
Highlanders beating the Brumbies
Warathas losing etc.
See how easy things change in sport. Pity the Bulls and SHarks didn’t do their bit though
8 May 2006, 08:40 am
Frazer,my apologies, you are correct. All the Bulls are equally useless.
8 May 2006, 08:47 am
We do not deserve a spot in the semi’s
% games lost
Saders 8%
Tahs 25%
Canes 25%
Brumbies 25%
Bulls 41%
Sharks 50%
8 May 2006, 08:55 am
With Jorrie Muller injured J Cronje is the new Jorrie Saterday ref told him 3 times no 6 hands out ruck, and he still did!!!
8 May 2006, 09:07 am
Capebull – spot on! Why are our teams always the dogs under the dining room table fighting over the scraps? It’s pathetic!
8 May 2006, 09:17 am
Keep Habana on wing with JDV and Fourie on 12 and 13. We got a great forward pack and our backline will get quality ball, we need a flyhalf of Carters caliber and we dont have one in South Africa at the moment and i dont see an and coming one in the junior teams (U.19 and U21)
8 May 2006, 09:17 am
Bokusa @1
Your post is spot on, HM should have given him a run at 13. Habs is lost on the wing and seriousl needs to be brought closer to the action, having said that, how does one replace Fourie after his showing this w/e.
I don’t think the idea of flyhalf is such a joke at all, if in doubt, try him there in a vodacom cup match.
8 May 2006, 09:18 am
We will never know if we dont try him lik Edwil van Aarde says vs worlds and Scots. We need a good backup for Jacques Fourie ,our no 1 choice. If there’s an injury or a player rested then the boys move in. Habs moves to 13 ,Jean to 12 ,if not there already. Yes Brian played great for Lions at 13. then came his debut vs england and jaco broke incredibly and put brian away (with his pace ) for the score. he had another good ruyn and has been a wing ever since. We need backup at 13. If he is a specialist 11 and 13 he is more useful. i think Jake has finally realised MJ is toast ! Lets hope.
We can also blood some new boys who happen to fit the colour scheme of things ,at wing and one day they can move to 15 or wherever.(Ndungane twins,Pietersen etc)
Now about Brian at 15….a tasty thought,but thrown in in the bok setup? well me thinks he’ll adapt to 13 with his experience faster. Like someone said….if he was triein the S14 at 13 ,well thesame goes for 15. Its big position that could work fantastically for him (and us supporters) but its a bit like people calling for Jake to blood JDV at 10 during the bok games.
What arisk….aainst minnows sure,but were werent playing many minnows after the 1st few games.
(by then)
JdV has shown below average clearance kicking for a 10….he would need specilaist training.
I am also worried that he is said to be by keo and co …our most creative no 12. we are in ****….he is occasionally creative,he is often boig standard.Perhapos this is our best.
I still like jaco at 15 ,AP at 10 (for 2 out of 3 games) and Percy n the bench.JF,BH and JDV sghould all be a part of the team and i like them all at wing and centre but JdV at both 12 and 13( even tho he’s not always THAT amazing)
Barritt needs to be focused on in the background.
I also think Habana at 13 would do well cos he is targetted at 11 and selsom has the room to move and is fouled a lot there.He would be a bit of an unknown at 13 yet he knows what he can do.
All we say is ,we need a gopod backup for Jacques fourie ….its foolish to rely on him for every game.
i amstill oing back and forth with Barry at 12. I feel confidence when he plays there,sort of….ha,what does that mean? If he can offload in the tackle and have his players running offf him …like we see at times ,he is a good bet still.But we must have an AP or Jaco at 10…which w will have.
Yes I think Bosman like Baritt be developed at 12 is a good plan.
8 May 2006, 09:18 am
and i dont see an up and coming one in the junior teams (U.19 and U21)
8 May 2006, 09:19 am
Haha! Habana should stay at wing fool! JdV and JF at centres with Barrit and Cooke as backups. Butch is a must for flyhalve. Percy at the back, Jaco as the backup. Ruan as 9, FdP as backup. Breyton or Jantjes on wing.
8 May 2006, 09:19 am
At sheer excitement at Jake’s new spirit of adventure, I’ve thought up a new adventurous Bok selection.
A more adventurous Springbok selection
Jake White’s comments to the Rapport about things he would like to try made me very excited. He talked about trying Habana at centre. So I thought based on that and two more matches, I’d propose a slightly more adventurous Springbok selection than my last.
Here’s my second selection with second choices in brackets.
First Choice Second Choice
1. JD Moller – Stormers [Lawrence Sephaka - Cats]
2. John Smit – Sharks [Schalk Brits - Stormers]
3. BJ Botha – Sharks [Eddie Andrews - Stormers]
4. Bakkies Botha – Bulls [Johan Ackerman - Sharks]
5. Victor Matfield – Bulls [Ross Skeate - Stormers]
6. Luke Watson – Stormers [AJ Venter - Cats]
7. Schalk Burger – Stormers [Juan Smith - Cheetahs]
8. Pedrie Wannenberg – Bulls [Joe van Niekerk - Stormers]
9. Ruan Pienaar – Sharks [Fourie du Preez - Bulls]
10. Jaco van der Westhuyzen – Bulls [Meyer Bosman - Cheetahs]
11. JP Pietersen – Sharks [Odwa Ndungane - Sharks]
12. Jaque Fourie – Cats [De Wet Barry - Stormers]
13. Bryan Habana – Bulls [JP Nel - Bulls]
14. Akona Ndungane – Bulls [Giscard Pieters - Cheetahs]
15. Percival Montgomery – Sharks [Bevin Fortuin - Cheetahs]
So this is based on an entirely different logic to my last selection which tried to mix Jake’s policy of selecting the incumbent and then thinking of form.
My changes start with selecting Schalk Brits ahead of Gary Botha as backup to John Smit. This is a selction based on sheer excitement value – I agree with Jake that Brits needs to firm up on his basics, specifically his lineout throwing.
My next change brings AJ Venter in as a loose forward backup. My loose forward backup don’t correspond directly to where I’d play them. I would clearly not play AJ on the open side, but with Luke Watson and Schalk Burger in the starting line up and both possible opensiders, a number of possible combinations are possible – including picking either of Luke or Schalk as the starting opensider with Juan Smith or AJ as the closed side flank.
After being delighted that Jake would consider Habana as a center, that has made selecting the rest of the backline a bit difficult. Habana is an outside centre, so finding him a partner means a rejig or dropping Jaque Fourie. The latter cannot happen, and something about Jaque Fourie at inside centre and Habana at outside centre is very exciting. Bringing Habana in at centre means we would need a new left wing. In the spirit of being adventurous, I think picking JP Pietersen has tonnes of potential and is a pick for the future. So I’ve picked him. There is a real problem as backup left wing – no one outside of Habana and Pietersen has shown international class. So I’ll assume that Odwa Ndungane can handle the switch – as I did in my initial selection.
Moving Jaque Fourie inside, has meant that I’ve relegated De Wet Barry to the bench, dropping Wynand Olivier. I thought Olivier’s performance against the Crusaders (crabbing across the field, etc) was worrying enough to warrant this anyway. I’ve kept JP Nel in the side giving him the benefit of the doubt.
In the spirit of adventure, I’ve dropped Breyton Paulse from my line up and promoted Akona Ndungane. I’ve brought in Giscard Pieters as the form right wing behind Ndungane.
I’ve continued to leave Jean de Villiers out based on his shocking defensive performance at 12 this season and his spoilt brat reaction at being moved to the wing.
Do I think Jake will select anything like this side? No. But it does show how difficult moving Habana into centre will be as a disruption. Exciting though.
8 May 2006, 09:23 am
Capebull@43
I am in fact hoping that non of our teams make the semis. What’s the point? To go over to Canterburry and get smacked by the Saders? And lets not kid ourselves, we will get smacked. This season is now over for us, Jake must have the extra time to pick up the pieces and put them back together. Then I see us having a good 3N’s. It would be good to have a Tah’s Saders final. Let those dudes work right to the end.
8 May 2006, 09:24 am
Storm_saam – i sent you a mail about your postings – please read it and follow the instructions !
8 May 2006, 09:27 am
jake’s backline for the WC:
9. january/fdp
10. percey/jaco/ap
11. snyman
12. jdv
13. habana
14. breyton
15. JF/percy
write it down, frame it, mark my words – looking at what he has done and what he is saying lately this is what it is going to look like.
as for habana, #13 gives him more than enough space if his #10 & #12 is on top of their games – good move in my view, but he must work on his distribution.
8 May 2006, 09:27 am
Ig – you worried you’re going to lose punters?
8 May 2006, 09:28 am
I think it’s worth an experiment to try him at centre against the Scots or even World XV. He didn’t do well with the Bulls at that position but for the Boks he’d have a genuine playmaker like JDV making space for him and it could produce something special.
It could be a disaster but we’ll never know if we don’t give it a try. As Knersboy suggested, play Fourie on the wing and if it goes to ****, swap him and Habana around during the game.
8 May 2006, 09:28 am
May Butch never see a Springbok jersey again.
8 May 2006, 09:32 am
Nah Frazer – just applying the terms and condition equally !
8 May 2006, 09:35 am
Storm, theres no way JW’s gonna leave Januarie out, he was fantastic in the 3N’s last year, in fact I rated him above FDP, Ruan Pienaar should be brought into the training squad, but FDP put serious pressure on him in the Bulls\Sharks match, so he needs more time.
8 May 2006, 09:41 am
Ja,id rather see the investment in Brad Barrit and Bosman at 12 (more future left) than Butch,altho he did well on the weekend in his 1st game back.
8 May 2006, 09:41 am
Indeed PA, we’re forgetting about Snyman. And he’s definately in Jake’s plans.
Gom Storm, what have you done wrong? the dreaded E-mail.
8 May 2006, 09:42 am
IG, terms and condition? I’ve forgotten them, what were they again?
8 May 2006, 09:47 am
Edwill
I agree that Keo has it wrong, butI dont think it is racism that is holding these guys back, it is lack of understanding of the difference between speed and acceleration.
Habana made a name for himself at centre and wing at the Lions. He has acceleration AND top end speed – he is good at scavenging, intercepts and chasing down bombs, and he rus good lines – perfect for centre.
JF made a name for himself at fullback and wing. JF has a better kicking game and a good top end speed (for joining the line from fullback. He is tall and good under the high ball – perfect fro fullback.
If someone like Jean, Bosman or Barry could create the smallest of spaces for Habana to exploit, then nobody could do it better. He has also shown that he can get his hands through the tackle and pass to wings.
Why not put Jacque Fourie at inside centre? He is a playmaker and has a good handoff, and god defence is essential at inside centre, as is a big boy…
8 May 2006, 09:47 am
I agree on Januarie last season – this season he’s been terrible. Looks unfit and slow.
I know Jake White will go with Jean div. Hopefully he’ll get the best out of him. But he was seriously **** there for the Stormers.
8 May 2006, 09:47 am
http://www.keo.co.za/terms-and-conditions-of-use-for-wwwkeocoza/
Leave Habana on the wing JF is hitting form and with a decent ten inside of JvD – they will be back to their best !
8 May 2006, 09:49 am
Sorry: there=inside centre
8 May 2006, 09:49 am
Wicked – because JF runs better lines of his inside centre than anyone else in this country.
8 May 2006, 09:51 am
sorry – of = off (better lines off…)
8 May 2006, 09:52 am
we will see about butch, u okes write him off but he has just come back, why dont we give him a chance first. remember, he was jakes forst pick when he took over.
8 May 2006, 09:55 am
Butch is shithouse, he is not and will never be South Africas flyhalf solution.
8 May 2006, 09:56 am
Yeah I have to say that with JDV and the brilliant JF as our 12&13 there isn’t much space for Jetshoes in the midfield.
8 May 2006, 09:58 am
Don’t get me started on Butch.
I swear that guy’s got problems. He looks to get cheap shots in at every opportunity.
Watch a video of Saturday’s game. He jumped all over Watson and Skeate in the loose, pulled Stormers players out of mauls in a headlock and punched Luke Watson.
Don’t get me wrong, the Sharks were fantastic and deserved to win.
But Butch is a thug. He will cost his teams the game one day and I’d rather that wasn’t when he plays for the Boks.
8 May 2006, 10:01 am
Agree, agree, agree!!!! Habana also can’t tackle for s**t. I would actaully leave him out of the Boks until he can prove he can do anything else than get intercept try’s. Fourie is KING!!!! My midfield would be De Villiers and Fourie. But only if Jean can also take the same tackle lessons as Habana. By the way… CATS WON!!!!!!
8 May 2006, 10:04 am
If Jean de Villiers was a better defender by all means play him at 12.With a defensive liability in the flyhalf channel Jean will struggle at 12. If a flyhalf like Butch James plays then de Villiers is the answer.
8 May 2006, 10:06 am
Don’t think that’s going to be a good idea. Leave him on the wing. He’s made a name for himself there. Fourie and De Villiers are our best centres at the moment. Fourie realy impressed me the last couple of games. He’s strong and he’s running straight. Barry needs a break from rugby , he’s no good anymore. Jake is going to sit with a alot of tallent and i hope his going to pic the best players available. We got lots of good forward players aswell as backline players.
8 May 2006, 10:07 am
Edwil is a tosser.
Jaque Fourie at center for the Boks.
Habana at center for the Bulls.
8 May 2006, 10:08 am
I think Butch has a lot to offer.
In 2004 he was prob the best 10 in the Super 12 and was playing some cracking rugby. He was, shock,horror, using his arms and was pulling off some huuuuuge tackles. His goal kicking was very good and his distribution top notch.
He has potential.
8 May 2006, 10:08 am
KEO!
I do believe that Habana would do quite well @ centre, but I do agree with you that the best bok side would have fourie and devilliers @ centre, they are by far our most talented pairing, all of you old die hard stormers fans should take your blinkers off, barry and joubert’s time has come to an end, they were very good and they had a nice run together, but there are quite a few players who offer a lot more than them now! Deal with it!!!
As far as Jean de villiers, Keo I don’t know if you have heard the same things as I have but word out there is that the stormers are not a happy team (political nonsense amongst the players/coaches I don’t know and don’t really care) but I can see on Jeans face in the game as well as some of the other players, they are not happy and it goes further that just losing a lot of games. Jean was very irritated on the field on Saturday, and his comments about equating his shift to the wing the same as being dropped were profound………players don’t normally make comments like that especially not to the media…something is up @ newlands…
so I agree he hasn’t had his best season but I know that when I play and im low on confidence and my head is not in the right place I play ****!!! simple as that..
So Keo do you think Jake is gonna give us all reason to pull our hair out and select barry and joubert at centre for quite a few games this year so that we can all watch the backline crash up channel one all day and we can scrape out couple of wins because our pack is really brilliant!!
By the way watch closely barry is starting to slip more and more tackles, John Smit bounced his *** on Saturday and him and Joubert were outplayed by two youngsters just starting out in the big time.
8 May 2006, 10:10 am
BlUECAP, but look what happened to FDP on Friday. He was a plonker.
FDP never put Ruan under pressure, the bulls pack did.No srummie is good behind a retreating pack.
8 May 2006, 10:13 am
Keo is missing the point. Monty is over it and Jake needs a 15 for the WC.
Fourie at 15, Habana at 13 and then please the gov by propping up the black quota on (yes, you guessed it) the wing.
Moving Haban is in the best interest of the backline oveall, it will make it stronger with the void left by over-the-hill Monty.
8 May 2006, 10:16 am
Hats off to one young Bradley Barritt on Saturday,this youngster plays the type of game at 12 I love to watch.A great defender and fantastic hands coupled with great vision.This kid will hopefully continue to grow and perhaps in a few seasons make the jersey his own.At 19 let him play CC and Super rugby and who knows where he might go.I hope it is to the top.For now Jacques Fourie is the definite form centre and I hope Jean de Villiers will up his game when in Green and Gold,it has not been a great season for him,there are a number of reasons for this I am sure.Habana should make the wing position his own he has everything to be a Springbok great and I have no doubt he could play centre too,but we don’t have a lot of quality wingers at present and this is where Bryan is needed.
8 May 2006, 10:18 am
BadBoy, for someone who is over the hill percy has done damn well in this years super 14.
but yeah, maybe 2007 is a bit far away. on current form though he is the best we have.
agreed rastafox, barit will go damn far and cooke is also really good.
8 May 2006, 10:19 am
Rick West, I am a Stormers supporter and like every Stormers supporter, NO ONE SUPPORTS BARRY.
Or Niel de Kock for that matter. Everything he does is a faak up.
8 May 2006, 10:20 am
Kners would love to see Barritt and Cooke as a pairing in an A game or something like that.They are fantastically exciting prospects.
8 May 2006, 10:24 am
Speaking of Faak ups, does anyone remember that SABC news presenter who was going over results in the FA cup one year and when he read “FA cup” on the teleprompter, he actually pronounced it “the FAAC UP”. Classic bit of SA television history. Still makes me chuckle.
8 May 2006, 10:24 am
apart from the ellis game last year in the 3N, i am struggling to remember when last jean impressed?
fourie, definately, this guy is by far probably the most professional player in the Super competition this year as far as backline players go.
he goes out and gets the job done, and he does it bloody well.
8 May 2006, 10:27 am
Pissant – I agree re Fourie. You’re also right about JDV. The kid has so much potential though. I’m sure a good coach like JW will get more out of him. Let’s face it, his current coach is kak.
8 May 2006, 10:28 am
agreed rasta. i am not all doom and gloom after this years super 14. i dunno why everyone stresses, we are always kak, every year.
but this year i feel there are positives. our forwards are performing. all the sa super 14 teams did relatively well in the forwards. imagine the combination of the sharks front row, the bulls locks and the stormers loosies.
watson has to get a go in the bok jersey. jake should respect this oke, he never complained or threatened to play overseas etc etc, he just said “well then i will play harder” and he did.
8 May 2006, 10:32 am
Knersboy – re Watson – I totally agree. I wasn’t convinced before this season, but in a very kak Stormers side this year, he has proven himself in every match he’s played. I’d rather he were in the squad than either J Cronje or Van Heerden. I reckon he’d also be an ideal backup skipper.
8 May 2006, 10:34 am
I am glad that it is not just me that sees some light.There is a huge ammount of young talent coming through and bar one or two results most games went to the wire.Only one of our sides had a long standing experienced coach and two of our teams were virtually new selections.The Sharks impressed by playing rugby as I believe it should be.The Cats I’m sure would have done better if their coach was in anyway good enough his selections have been baffling.The Cheetahs are a hugely inexperienced side and the Stormers let themselves down a bit.It has been hard and competitive this season and I for one have enjoyed most of it.
8 May 2006, 10:37 am
i dont think you should be so quick to write off trying a new combination. Barry and Habana would make a helluva midfield. Big fan of Fourie at 13, but he and JdV are also make awesome wings.
Always liked the idea of Barry and Habana, why dont we give it a go, if it doesn’t work then JdV and Fourie are worldclass.
8 May 2006, 10:40 am
Players that I feel have done their best to play their way out of the Bokke:
Jacque Cronje,Marius Joubert,Tonderai Chavangha, Lawrence Sephaka,Albert v/d Bergh and Solly Tiyabilika.Due to injury or bad form I feel these players have not merited selection.
Those who must be knocking:
Ruan Pienaar,Jacques Botes and BJ Botha from the Sharks.
Luke Watson,JD Moller,Andries Bekker and Schalk Brits from the Stormers.
Ernst Joubert of the Cats.
Akona Ndungane and JP Nel from the Bulls.
Ronnie Cooke,Tiaan Liebenberg and Barend Pieterse from the Cheetahs.
There are others that have been poor or excellent and I’m sure will agree and others not.
This is merely my little opinion
8 May 2006, 10:49 am
Habana should stay on wing.
If you have the world’s best kine out jumper, but the hooker can’t throw in, you dont make the jumper hooker now do you. Two wrongs doesn’t make a right.
If Habana played for say the crusaders or any of the teams who plays exciting running rugby, can you just imagine how many tries he would have scored?
Leave him on wing and sort out the cause of the problem.
8 May 2006, 10:52 am
Agreed Blouste
It’s like the Crusaders suddenly playing Rico Gear at flyhalf so he can score more tries!!!
8 May 2006, 11:00 am
rastafox/blouste,
what are you okes talking about Habana used to play outside center? Its his favoured position.
8 May 2006, 11:04 am
Huh ?
Why is it that a ref can blow a penalty with his back to a maul and still get it right, but not award a simple try without asking the television ref if it was indeed a try ?
Huh ?
8 May 2006, 11:05 am
huh??? indeed
cab
read earlier post we need Bryan on the wing,we are thin in this department!!
8 May 2006, 11:06 am
you right there cab. he played 13 for the lions and was awesome. he totally outplayed DWB and MJ that year. he played all his senior rugby at 13…
8 May 2006, 11:08 am
Cab
I think some guys thought Brian started playing rugby against the Poms at twickers. They dont seem to have seen him before his ‘trail and intro’ to the boks at wing.
Jake as just been conservative in wanting to have Barry and MJ at centers,and then when MJ was injured he found Fourie…..he also strted JdV at wing i beleive but most screamed for him to come in closer.
I dont understand what people miss but ive seen Habana do some amazing tackles ,filed high balls and when quiet on attack has been solid with occasional misses on defence. Ive also seen him be incredibly creative and able in a backline esp when he was a no 13.If anything he has been worjked out and is limited at wing,not center…..he is deaaling with very litttle space against the line often and is targetted.
Fourie needs a backup ,who’se it gonna be?
8 May 2006, 11:09 am
And last year everybody cried foul and “black wing syndrome” when Heineke M put him on the wing….
What am I missing here??
8 May 2006, 11:12 am
Centre is a crucial defensive position.There is reason that coaches spend hours trying to engineer line breaks.By all means bring Bryan in at 13 on attack,but I feel he will struggle against most international centres defensively. jacques Fourie is a deadly defender and can put opponents on the back foot with ease this is why De Wet Barry is respected abroad and where Jean Div struggled mid-season (ironically the Stormers turned around with De Wet back at 12.)
8 May 2006, 11:15 am
rasta,
perhaps we are thin in the wing department, but Fourie used to play wing and JdV made more of an impact at wing than center for the boks.
remember JdV and Fourie were our centre combo all through the 3N last year and everyone complained about our inability to break the line. Personally i think they could make a worldclass midfield, but Barry and Habana would also be quite special.
wpw/ddrek,
yeah JdV, Fourie and Habana are all capable of playing at outside centre or the wings. Should be interesting to see what JW does. A hard running/tackling centre like Barry offloading to the acceleration of Habana could result in a very potent combination.
8 May 2006, 11:15 am
Give Habana a decent run at center.
Hey, I’m the biggest fan of Jacque, but I don’t mind Jacque at fullback either.
Keo and posters of the same line – I suppose they should have left Tana Umaga on the wing too…
Thought not.
8 May 2006, 11:19 am
BoksForever – I don’t think you should start comparing Habana with Umaga. They’re completely different players, and the argument for bringing either of them into midfield is also completely different.
8 May 2006, 11:20 am
Good Point Cab – taken
I am just a fan of dominating centres and electrifying wingers.Thus it is my belief De wet and Fourie with Habana as a winger that can move in-field as required etc.
8 May 2006, 11:23 am
This is a pie in the sky SA A team combo:
9 Ruan Pienaar
10 Meyer Bosman
12 Brad Barritt
13 Ronnie Cooke
8 May 2006, 11:25 am
No so Frazer – different player – same principle.
Consider Stirling Mortlock vs Rua Tupoki vs Caleb Ralph vs Umaga – all different centers, but the mix somehow works.
We won’t know until we try. And what if he becomes like the Stephen Larkham shift from 15 to 10?
Nothing ventured, *****-all gained.
8 May 2006, 11:27 am
thank goodness rastafox, for a moment i thought u were contemplating p nel?!?
not so sold on ronnie cooke and pienaar might just have to be tho bok scrummie, but it would be lekker to see barrit and bosman next to each other and maybe even olivier (although he had a kak game the w-end at 13…
by the way, well done S H A R K S ! !
8 May 2006, 11:28 am
boksforever,
habana is struggling on the wing cos he has been worked out and it is also plain to see that he aint no winger. A guy like Paulse is a good winger as he knows when to track back and help the fullback and also looks for work. Just like Fourie is a fullback and not a centre, so too Habana is an outside centre and not a wing.
b4thegame, we talking rugby here, not race!
8 May 2006, 11:30 am
bok backline:
15- fourie
14-Paulse/Jantjes
13-Habana
12- JDV/DWB
11- Chavanga/Ndungane
10- Percy
9-FDP/Pienaar/Bolla
8 May 2006, 11:31 am
habana is a better finisher and tackling from the side than what he would be head on… think he is great on the wing… soon this debate will be null and void, barrit will be bok in a season or two with jdv on his outside and fourie at fullback…
8 May 2006, 11:31 am
There is one reason for this. Jake must make up his quota numbers and by playing Habanna at 13 there is space for another quota on the wing.
We have some brilliant quotas playing wing at the moment, the Ndungane brothers will do just fine with Habanna on 13. De Villiers will create enough space for Habanna to exell
8 May 2006, 11:34 am
wpw
You must be joking.
Chavanga, Paulse and Jantjies and Barry have been weighed and found to light. Bolla must first learn how to pass to his right, in the meatime Januarie will do as third choice
8 May 2006, 11:35 am
big g love the faith in Barritt – this guy excites me (in the rugby sense!!)
King
I really cannot see the hoopla about the Ndungane twins,both have had decent seasons and are the best of a weak bunch,I really don’t think they have the quality to step up and this will be highlighted in time.When up against top opposition these boys can be put under pressure and make some ordinary mistakes.Wouldn’t like to see them as Boks yet,but perhaps with time they will make the grade.
8 May 2006, 11:35 am
the king, before i comment on your post, is this said in jest or do you really think all black players are quotas? me thinks its the former…
8 May 2006, 11:36 am
Pretorius and Jaco for 10 and 15. Both can play both positions.
JF MUST play at 13. I beg the coaches to stop wasting this man anywhere else. He can play well anywhere from 10 to 15 and is thus moved all over the place which isn’t good for the player in the longer term.
Jean and Jaque has this almost telepathic communication that is the holy grail for centre pairings – so I would not mess there – unless forced by injuries. Jean can be taught to defend better by a proper defense coach. I would bring the young Barrit closer to squad to test him with Jean and Jaque.
Habana is the no 1 wing and backup for JF at 13 – and should stay at wing as long as JF is fit and on form.
Snyman will be on the bench. I cannot see him running on.
Paulse had his time. Others now deserve their chances. We have enough quality for the wing position.
Ricky will be trimmed doen soon enough by White’s conditioning team – and a fit Januarie is still my no 1 choice at 9 on a dry pich/day. Wet days/pitches goes to Du Preez.
8 May 2006, 11:38 am
wpw,
I just like the idea of having your most exciting players handling the ball more often.
Who knows which combination is the real winner. All I know is Jacque, Paulse and Habana have a habit of scoring tries from anywhere. The rest of our boks, not so much.
And I don’t necessarily believe it’s cos the others set them up. Some players just naturally cross that white line more than others – regardless of what happens around them. I say give them the ball before someone before them loses the ball to McCaw or Waugh, or runs then into the touch-line. Game on. Catch me if you can – right up the middle!
8 May 2006, 11:39 am
katsesnor, yeah i know what you mean about JF at 13, he is class, could become one of the best. difficult one.
8 May 2006, 11:40 am
wpw is that a team for a good laugh or were you sincere, cause i sure had to wipe a few tears from laughin..
percy at flyhalf, de wet paulse, chavanga(who cannot play for us luckily) ndugane, bolla jantjies?!?! ha ha ha… geeze thats funny! ouch!
can you imagine the missed tackle stats of that team ha ha!
8 May 2006, 11:41 am
anyone watch the cats game, where did Fourie play at 13 or on the wing to score his hat-track. Also what was Julies like?
8 May 2006, 11:43 am
Boksforever – They moved Umaga to the midfield becuase they had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Umaga has excellent distribution skills, he stays up in the tackle, offloads in the tackle, breaks tackles, can quite comfortably crash it up if needs be, and can attack space with equal ease. His defence is also very good. He’s the complete package.
If Jake is to move him to centre, these are questions he will ask himself, and I’m not sure if he’ll be able to check all those boxes when it comes to Habana.
8 May 2006, 11:43 am
i was a hectic critic of julies in the past, but he makes players look good… they both had quite good games, but i agree, at the moment fourie and jean is the perfect midfield combination..
8 May 2006, 11:44 am
Edwill 26
Hoe kan jy se Habana se try ratio is beter op senter? Vir die bokke is sy rekord op VLEUEL 14 gespeel met 14 driee. Hy het net een jaar curriecup gespeel op senter en sy rekord was nie beter as dit nie. Hy het dalk n beter ratio o/21 gehad maar hoe de hel kan jy 0/21 ccup met toetse vergelyk?!
8 May 2006, 11:44 am
big g, what’s wrong with Paulse & Jantjes’ defence. DWB is solid… I would prefer JDV at 12 though. Percy will do well at 10. AP is not consistent enough. Chavanga played a test for the boks last yr vs Uruagauy(spelling)
8 May 2006, 11:45 am
Kats who are these quality wingers???
Benjamin,Nokwe,Chavangha and Rhyland are for sure not international quality.(Perhaps Gus Theron????)
Henno Mentz is for my money the best bet. Ndungane and Mkhize may be talented but are nowhere near ready for higher honours.
Pieters,Fredericks and Gaffie du Toit ?????
Seriously none of these should wear a Bok jersey.
Wylie Human is a good journeyman,Jantjies is no winger and Jorrie muller is at last disappearing.
Lots of potential in Ndungane at the Bulls but is this guy really good enough I think not.
Mametsa ain’t the answer and Frikkie Welsh may have his moments but really??
8 May 2006, 11:47 am
big g – Why can’t Chavanga play for us? He’s already played for us against Uruguay where he broke the record for most tries in a game, and on debut. I think you’re a little confused there…?
8 May 2006, 11:47 am
Big G
Chavangha is a capped Bok!!!!!Of course he can play for us.He even holds the record for most tries vs Uruguy a huge achievement that is.
8 May 2006, 11:48 am
Cab – Fourie played at 13, and Julies distributed really well. He also had quite a blinder.
8 May 2006, 11:50 am
Julies played a classic game at 12 and I have often been critical of the man,but he played a massive game.
8 May 2006, 11:51 am
interesting rasta, cos IMO he has been playing classic **** so far.
8 May 2006, 11:52 am
I’ll give him Saturday where it came from I don’t know!!!
8 May 2006, 11:53 am
rastafox. I would leave Paulse and Jantjes on the wing. Last yr he was the Cats’ best player in S14 along with Fourie… Paulse has experience and is a winger… Chavanga has played 15 for the poofters and is actually a good winger. He may not be on form but he should at least be in the squad of 45. Then there is Andre Snyman who has been doing well for Leeds b4 JW offered him a contract…
8 May 2006, 11:55 am
unfortunately had chavanga confused, yes he is allowed to play but shouldnt…
we need rugby player not fancy nimkapoops in the team and especially not on the wings.. i mean rockococo against paulse, jantjies, ndu’s, etc etc, ag come on..
8 May 2006, 11:56 am
Forgot about Snyman.
8 May 2006, 11:56 am
huge achievement yes, huge…
percy on flyhalf will put pressure on the rest of backline..
8 May 2006, 11:57 am
big g – you’re clueless mate. Paulse has produced the goods in every game he’s played, on defence and on attack. There is nothing wrong with Paulse – come on man, pull your head out!
8 May 2006, 11:57 am
Go check out
http://www.sport365.co.za/sport365_says/story_85394.shtml
8 May 2006, 11:59 am
big g, i know it was nearly 2 years ago but Chavanga did make an *** of rocockoko when the Moffies from CT demolished the Blues in Auckland. He has shown that he does have what it takes…
8 May 2006, 12:00 pm
rastafox, mentz had a good season and i like him to unfortunately he’s got a broken leg…
snyman played awesome rugby the last few years, dont think he’ll let our team down at all…
8 May 2006, 12:01 pm
I’m not a Paulse fan as you all know. I believe a winger should have speed and/or size,Paulse does not,imo anyway.
I would start with Habana and Snyman on the wings (its the safe bet).
8 May 2006, 12:02 pm
Rasta,
Habana + Jantjes + Ndungane (Bulls) + Russel = good enough Bok wingers in my books.
8 May 2006, 12:02 pm
frazer mate, i played against these chaps(clueless as i am), and let me 100% guarantee you, bring on paulse, id rather play against him anyday than the better wings out there…
8 May 2006, 12:04 pm
Not a Paulse fan as such,but the man is highly experienced and has produced the goods on many occasions before.He is highly regarded in world rugby and in a young team could provide vital direction.Not sure how his club form in France has been I watched one game he played in and he played well.
8 May 2006, 12:05 pm
Bigg G,true.
If I was an All Black and I could pick the Bok team, Paulse would be in my starting 15 everytime.
8 May 2006, 12:05 pm
Russel is defensively a liability as shown on Saturday.A good example of what a wing should be capable of was Wylie Human’s try-saver against the Blues on a lumbering tighthead.
8 May 2006, 12:08 pm
Rastafox,I think he was shown up in the fast pace French game. He’s to slow for wing and to small for any other pos.
Take Russell for example. The moment his pace leaves him, its good night nurse.
8 May 2006, 12:08 pm
russel a defensive liability, i was at the game and must havemissed it, sorry, i am clueless you know that..
pocket rocket is the best impact player in world cricket and just as klusener shold still be in the protea 1day set-up, russel should be the first guy pencilled in (even if it is on the bench)
8 May 2006, 12:08 pm
Paulse het vrot gespeel oorsee. Daai een game het Varndell (as ek sy naam reg onthou is) hom drie keer geklop en vier driee gedruk. Speel vir Snyman/Pietersen en Habana op vleuel…
8 May 2006, 12:09 pm
Russel makes tries. As long as he makes two for every one he lets past him I’m happy.
8 May 2006, 12:09 pm
So big g, explain to me then, why is it that Paulse has played over 50 Springbok tests and is currently playing in France, while you’re you’re sitting around talking **** about rugby.
8 May 2006, 12:11 pm
Frazer,to be fair to Bigg Paulse is having zero impact in France. I’ve seen a couple games and he really is invisible on the field.
8 May 2006, 12:12 pm
Russel may be a great ball-player,exciting runner and try scorer/maker this I agree with. I have watched him play Vodacom Cup this season and Super 14.Not even a squash ball rebounds as quickly as Russell in a tackle.This is the weakest point in his game and he will be found wanting at international level.
8 May 2006, 12:13 pm
Londonshark – that’s not something I can comment on, because I haven’t watched him play there, but I can comment on him playing for the Boks, and I don’t think anyone can say that he lets the Boks down.
8 May 2006, 12:14 pm
LET ME ASK YOU ALL THIS??????
I AM NOT A BULLS FAN BUT I WAS SO UNBELIEVABLY FRUSTRATED WITH THEM ITS JUST NOT FUNNY. I AM A AFRIKANER, BUT FOR GOODNESS SAKE, NOW I REALISED WHY POEPLE CALL US THICK DUTCHMEN. ITS BECAUSE OF THE PLONKERS UP NORTH.
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE (THE PUBLIC) SAID THAT ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE BALL IN HAND IN ORDER TO BEAT THE AUSIES AND NZ TEAMS???
I ASK AGAIN. HOW MANY TIMES???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
AND WHAT DID THE GENIOUSES UP NOTH DO ON FRIDAY??????? THEY KICKED EVERY SINGLE BALL BACK TO THE CRUSADERS.
WHATTA FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF??????
8 May 2006, 12:20 pm
Rasta,
Russel rebounds yes – and that is also his strength. He gets out of tackles like that also. I will have him in my team anyday as he makes life for the opposition very difficult by keeping them guessing all the time – just what we need in SA rugby. And is he any lighter/smaller that Paulse?
8 May 2006, 12:21 pm
hehehe brick… lmao
I am not going to say anything about afrikaners… you do have a valid point though. On Sat during the Sharks vs Poofters game the Moffies were behind 3-21 i think and Peter Grant decides to kick the ball to the opposition. Bolla also did it once but luckily AJ knocked on. I have no idea why saffa teams do this… The Sharks never kicked the ball that much… It is fine if you are way ahead and want to put the opposition under pressure by kicking to the corners but not when you are trailing and need to score tries…
8 May 2006, 12:21 pm
never heard of career ending injuries i presume.. but still involved in the rugby fraternity and i just love the game, frazer.. anyho, that left there, paulse served his creative and transformation role n the past and did a good job of that, but with lack of pace that he clearly demonstrates in france, he is not the wing he used to be…
8 May 2006, 12:22 pm
Brickwall – Caps lock – off –
But seriously, I hear you…
8 May 2006, 12:24 pm
Brickwall,
You better lock those security doors real well tonight … i see the Boeremag coming your way …
8 May 2006, 12:24 pm
big g, from articles i read Paulse actually did quite well in FRA. Scored a few good tries too.
Anyway, ppl who still call h wr dont know what they talking about. He has never ever let the Boks down. When i say that i mean he has never been the worst player on the field. Everyone has average games and i suppose he had 1 or 2 but was very consistent imo.
8 May 2006, 12:25 pm
what about bradley barrit ? the guy can tackle, he has good attacking capabilities aswell.
I agree with a whole bunch of you.. leave habana at wing. and leave paulse in france too.
8 May 2006, 12:28 pm
Post #159,
Rumour has it that its actually Stan, Jondood and Onlooker on their way …
8 May 2006, 12:34 pm
have to disagree on Paulse, we need different players. I think Barry is our 12 with Habana, JdV and Fourie our first choices at outside centre and wings. If Snyman hasn’t lost all his pace, he will be an invaulable backup. These guys are all big and fast and have done it at bok level.
Big g makes a good point about being able to contain powerful wingers like the aussies, kiwis and french have. in fact all of them have them noawadays including England, Ireland and Wales.
8 May 2006, 12:36 pm
leave the stormers players out they cant play they bottom of the log. nah put sharkies and bulls
8 May 2006, 12:36 pm
Frazer, you right. He has never let the Boks down but I think we need someone who is going to do more than ‘not let us down’.
8 May 2006, 12:37 pm
England have Cohen and Cueto. ireland have Horgan, Scotland have Lamont, France have the 2 big blonde wingers (Rougerie and ?), even Wales have that big no 14.
As for the aussies and kiwis, very powerful wings in Tuquiri, Sailor, Rathbone and Rocokoko, Vidiri and Gear.
8 May 2006, 12:38 pm
Cab
Good point about the big wingers…. and too true about snyman… he does bring experience to the table. i can definitly see this bok squad looking hot.
8 May 2006, 12:39 pm
scoob, yeah, size is not everything, but a good big guy will normally beat a good little guy. The sport is becoming more and more physical.
8 May 2006, 12:40 pm
londonshark
thatb is the most sensible line I have seen for a while we definitely need players that do more than just hold their own.
Brick
Dude go easy there bugger!!!
8 May 2006, 12:42 pm
Brick is not ironic that bar Kitch the best the Boks have done is under Mallett and White a pair of Souties???
8 May 2006, 12:43 pm
Fair enough big g – Sorry to hear it. Regarding Paulse. I haven’t been following him in France, but if he’s lost all his pace, why did they sign him?
8 May 2006, 12:47 pm
Funny that big is now the in thing. SA has always had the big boys and everybody was shouting that we should not be so obessed with size. What we lacked was intelligence to go with the size. If SA can get that right we will do well then.
If size matters at wing, then Pierre Spies should be moved back there.
8 May 2006, 12:47 pm
no doubt the fellow brings a lot of experience into the picture… same as tony b, although he played bloody well for the sharks, he wont make nz again, but he sure does add a hell of a lot with his experience and situation summaries..
8 May 2006, 12:48 pm
nothing wrong with pierre spes except that he plays for the bulls ha ha… seriously, he could bean answer on the wing if he just plays there for a season or two with his franchise…
8 May 2006, 12:49 pm
I hear you, Londonshark, maybe it is time to think about alternatives, but I just hate hearing people slate Paulse who has served the Boks very well over the years. He probably deserves a little more respect and recognition than he gets.
8 May 2006, 12:52 pm
katesensor,
no its more than size, it is athletic powerfully built wingers that are the biggest difference in the modern game. Mordt would have been perfect. Even that old little guy for France, is very powerful in breaking half-tackles and finishing off. These wings ask more questions outwide in a game with less space and better defences.
8 May 2006, 12:55 pm
Rasta,
Kitch was a Scot if I remember correctly (not Afrikaans).
I don’t want to go into this but Carel DuP lay’d the foundation for Mallett’s success and he’s defintely not a Soutie. Buurman van Zyl wasn’t a Soutie – and no-one beats him in my books. In Van Zyl’s time we didn’t compete internationally but if we had he would have made all Soutie coaches look like Souties.
8 May 2006, 13:05 pm
Frazer,yeah, he has been a brilliant Bok but I hate to say it, he simply fills a quota spot for Jake.
We all know that Jake loves big players (Paulse is tiny), Jake has also said how we lack pure pace outwide (Paulse has lost his afterburners) so we must conclude that Jake has other reasons for picking him.
The guy deserves repect and has alot to offer the Boks as a second stringer and has even more to give to the Currie Cup/Super14.
8 May 2006, 13:06 pm
Kats
I tend to agree on Carel and if Kitch is a Scot all the better for my theory.Regarding the days of yore I am not familiar enough to comment.It was however a toungue in cheek statement and not meant to offend.Ek is n “detribalised ********” n afrikaanse seuntjie wat n engelse skool bygewoon het.
8 May 2006, 13:21 pm
Edwill 26,
Habana did not make his name at centre, everybody was amassed by his inclusion in the Springbok team. Jorrie Muller was the Lions leading try scorer the year BH entered the fray (& exited from the Lions) in less games.
And most of his try’s were scored wide emphasising his finishing abilities or from a typical AP bullet pass into a gap that the just run through with all his pace (which he clearly has). These try’s can still be scored if he is 11 (ala Rathbone and Tiquiri, don’t think he is physically as a strong runner as them though)
Habana is not a bad tackler but a useless defender, he might actually do well at fullback where he can use his pace in defence. He might just even loose the ‘intercept is the best defence’ mentality when at 15. This is not my opinion as his line has openly been targeted by many teams the last 2 years. With him and JdV next to each other the midfield will be one big gap.
He is not creative and has never shown any sign of creating opportunities, what he does do often (not nearly consistently enough looking at the Springbok games as people might argue lack of opportunity with the Bulls) is exploit a opportunity or even a half opportunity created for him.
8 May 2006, 13:22 pm
Rasta,
I took it as such don’t worry. I could have added Heineke Meyer to that list too. HM needs a good backline coach (Carel ?) to get the Bulls to fire on all cylinders.
8 May 2006, 13:32 pm
LS – Maybe you’re right. But even so, I would still keep him in the Bok mix as an old head with lots of experience. Maybe he could teach Habana to go look for work more and generally be a positive influence on the Bok starters?
8 May 2006, 13:37 pm
Edwill,
Why did he model his position on Bo’D, cause the ‘useless’ Lions management said they will only be interested in him as a midfielder. However they need to know if he is committed to make the move. They then tasked him to write a 5000 word essay on who he thinks is the best midfielder and why. This was only 3/4 or so years ago and he has not been tested at a higher level.
Could argue that needs to be tried before cut out, if it was up to me I will insist an improvement in his defence before considering the move.
8 May 2006, 14:45 pm
Frazer, yep, Paulse has a great work rate, something Habana needs to work on.
8 May 2006, 15:45 pm
Habana will not last long at centre, it will bring a brilliant Test career to an abrupt end.
If JW does contemplate that move, it must be seen in the context of adding another quota player to the Boks back line by creating the vacancy on the wing
8 May 2006, 15:48 pm
Just a quick note.
I may not have seen much S14 (thanks Sky!), but the last game I saw, JDV was running sideways against France & cutting off all the space for his outside backs.
Lets face it he has only performed on the wing so far. He may have the skills but he has not shown them when its counted.
12 is the problem we need a playmaker to put his hand up.
Wrt Habanna – the problem is that with all his speed, he does not do anything else, he is not the complete winger, but he does seem to have a good awareness and can spot a gap, so maybe a 13 run would be fine. Should depend on form, between Jaques & him – will be nice to have some competition for the jersey.
If JW wants a bit more creativity – perhaps he should look at his backline coach & flyhalf / scrum half & tell them to unleash the backs & stop kicking (this would mean Fourie D Preez would need to be excluded from all games where we plan to play running rugby – but that does not seem too much of a loss!
8 May 2006, 16:10 pm
The poor boks don’t have a backline coach
8 May 2006, 19:09 pm
Brian Habana is just too farking lazy to be a centre.
8 May 2006, 19:57 pm
JW needs some ‘reality check’ as the Yanks say, well, by all means, go play Habana at centre, January or Bolla at scrumhalf, Andrews, Sephaka and Shimanga at the front row and perhaps Dlulane or Solly at loose forward, and why not?
As long as you don’t pretend those are merit Boks, it’s fine by me, we can live with it.
8 May 2006, 20:35 pm
katsesnor rules!!!!
9 May 2006, 01:30 am
While the Bok coach desperately ponders remote possibilities and wonders about trying weird options, the All Black coach has already actually put THREE separate test teams to the genuine blowtorch of an end-of-year player-burnouted Grand Slam tour and has seen all three his test team return home undefeated.
Now that’s what I call proper planning.
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