Bakkies and Habana crocked
21 May 2006
Bakkies Botha and Bryan Habana will miss the two-test series against Scotland because of injury.
Both were injured in the Bulls Vodacom Super 14 semi-final defeat against the Crusaders in Christchurch, with Habana’s ankle injury looking bad.
Habana and Botha are integral to White’s first-choice Springbok line-up and neither looked comfortable when leaving the field.
Habana, who only touched the ball once on attack — and scored from it — tried to continue playing but the pain was too bad, while Botha left the field before half-time after failing to make much of an impression in his 50th match in Super rugby.
White has already lost the services of BJ Botha and Andre Pretorius, while Os du Randt is out for the next two weeks.
Habana strained ankle ligaments, while Botha hurt his achilles. Both are expected to be out for anything between four and six weeks.
121 Comments
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21 May 2006, 11:41 am
BrumbyIV
What do you think about French’s team?
21 May 2006, 11:44 am
from what i hear your full backs have their moments of madness. same goes for Michalak. On their day they can destroy any team. fortunately for us it doesn’t happen that often
21 May 2006, 11:50 am
ill admit the bulls played a lot better than i expected them to. nice try bulls.
i hope the match analysis is not discarded as some good things can be learnt. jaco really needs to watch the tape and see if he can count as high as the number of times he didnt find touch. jaco was useless and made life extremely difficult for the bulls pack. the bulls tight 5 again showed as so many predicted that they are incapable of playing overseas.
the loose trio was not a trio. cronje as mentioned already is plain kak. one dimensional and left all his covering work to pedrie. tim looked like some oke job shadowing mccaw.
steyn tried to add something, but was not getting great ball, and the option taking was pretty scary.
olivier was the pick of the backs. he could do quite well behind a good pack that is doing their job.
the rest of the backs dont deserve a mention, either not looking for work enough, habana, or just average performances.
the 2 players who did their bok starting jersey a nudge are olivier and pedrie. the rest were abysmal.
21 May 2006, 11:50 am
BrumbyIV,
I’m not a French. My name is French, but I would never be a French! Are you a ausie?
21 May 2006, 11:52 am
Capeflatsboy yeah I am.
21 May 2006, 11:56 am
KEO,
I heard something about Jake White setting up a springbok team of 30 black players? This is a project aimed at transforming the sport and also helping to tune up some of the really good talent out there for the World Cup.
Do you know more about this? Like who they are going to play against? ETC
Anyone heard about this?
Its a good thing, thats why I am interested.
21 May 2006, 11:58 am
yes. too many crash ball players
21 May 2006, 11:59 am
Does anyone agree with me that dewet barry is an idiot?
21 May 2006, 12:01 pm
French,
I dont know De Wet Barry!
21 May 2006, 12:02 pm
he is a good drunk .
21 May 2006, 12:16 pm
Huuuuugge problem this.
Now our starting XV will lack a pure gas man. Paulse is a snail and Snyman is getting on a bit.
Time to put Chavanga into the hot seat?
21 May 2006, 12:19 pm
mackie,
the group you refer to is an initiative by jake who has identified 30 PDI’s to introduce them to specialised coaching skills.
the project is headed up by brendan venter and they are currently in bloem where derrik coetzee (conditioning), derrick redhead (injury prevention), henning gerricke (pshycology) and sherryl calder (visual skills) are working with them.
training sessions were also held earlier this year lead by former gaelic football player, turned coach, mickey o’sullivan and former england fullback jonathan callard.
it is no so much a team or squad of players that will play any games, they will also not have camps all the time but their unions will rather assess them all the time.
the project is headed up by brendan venter and sponsored by SAB.
these guys are basically SA’s 30 best black players and for a better word they are the high performance squad idenitified by jake.
21 May 2006, 12:22 pm
This is a bit off the topic but I’m really concerned of the direction WP/Stormers rugby is going.
I would really love to see the following to happen:
Director of Rugby: Nick Mallet
Head Coach: Alan Solomons
Backs Coach: Pieter de Villiers
Forwards Coach: Tiaan Strauss
Kicking Coach: Louis Koen
15.) JP Pietersen
14.) Tonderai Chavanga
13.) Marius Joubert
12.) Jean De Villiers
11.) Jongi Nokwe
10.) Jaco van der Westhuysen
9.) Stefan Basson
8.) Joe van Niekerk
7.) Schalk Burger
6.) Luke Watson
5.) Ross Skeate
4.) Selborne Booms (c)
3.) Pat Barnard
2.) Schalk Brits
1.) Daan Human
16.) Faan Reutenbach
17.) Haui Edmonds
18.) Andries Bekker
19.) Adri Badenhorst
20.) Paul Delport
21.) Pieter Grant
22.) De Wet Barry
21 May 2006, 12:23 pm
PissAnt,
So are the likes of Habana, Ricky J & Wayne Julies part of this program? Or are these 30 announced players newbies?
Im glad that a lot of thought and effort is going into transforming the sport rather than some arrogant twat simply saying “throw any ol sod in there so that we can represent the demographics of the country”.
21 May 2006, 12:25 pm
Edwill,
JP Pieterson belongs to the Sharks boet.
No poaching him im afraid!
He will make bok call up in the near future, I think he just needs to bulk up a tad.
21 May 2006, 12:28 pm
Anybody can be bought! Half the Bulls team, are not from Pretoria
21 May 2006, 12:30 pm
I am still taking e-mails for the best of the super 14 team if any are keen to join the “selection Panel” e-mail your XV to rastafox@ananzi.co.za!
21 May 2006, 12:31 pm
Edwill,
If the Sharks can cough up 1,5 mil for Kees Lensing, what makes you think they will let JP Pieterson slide to WP?
Anyway, thats not on the cards so pointless discussion.
Sharks to donner all in the CC.
21 May 2006, 12:39 pm
Bok Team :
1.Os du Randt
2.John Smit
3.Eddie Andrews
4.Andries Bekker
5.Victor Matfield
6.Schalk Burger
7.Juan Smith
8.Joe van Niekerk
9.Ruan Pienaar
10.Butch James
11.Andre Snyman
12.Jean de Villiers
13.Jaque Fourie
14.Breyton Paulse
15.Percy Montgomery
16.Gary Botha
17.BJ Botha
18.AJ Venter
19.Pedrie Wannenburg
20.Ricky Januarie
21.Meyer Bosman
22.Wynand Olivier
21 May 2006, 12:41 pm
Assuming Jake keeps all Bok training squad or majority out of Currie Cup,the Sharks still have a super line-up:
1.Kees Lensing & Brent Moyle
2.Skipper Badenhorst & Bismark du Plessis
3.Danie Saayman & Sangoni Mxoli
4.Johan Ackerman & Daniel Farani
5.Albert v/d Bergh & Werner Cronje
6.Warren Britz & Keegan Daniel
7.Nico Breedt & Braam Immelman
8.Jacques Botes & Jaco Gouws
9.Craig Davidson & Sandile Nxumalo
10.Steve Meyer & Scott Spedding
11.Henno Mentz & Dusty Noble
12.Brad Barritt & Grant Rees
13.Adriaan Strauss & Adriaan Jacobs
14.Odwa Ndungane & Cedric Mkhize
15.JP Pietersen & Brett Hennesey
This excludes the talents of Steven Sykes,Alistair Hargreaves,Tendai Mtwarira,Scott Mathie,Craig Burdon and Jody Jenneker.
21 May 2006, 12:42 pm
…..or has beens such as Gcobani Bobo and Dean Hall.
21 May 2006, 12:46 pm
Or maybe the squad of 26 :
Forwards:
Os du Randt
Eddie Andrews
BJ Botha
CJ vd Linde
John Smit (c)
Gary Botha
Hanyani Shimange
Andries Bekker
Victor Matfield
Bakkies Botha
Joe van Niekerk
Schalk Burger
Juan Smith
Pedrie Wannenburg
Backs:
Fourie du Preez
Ricky Januarie
Ruan Pienaar
Butch James
Meyer Bosman
Jaco vd Westhuyzen
Bryan Habana
Jean de Villiers
Jaque Fourie
Breyton Paulse
Andre Snyman
Percy Montgomery
Wynand Olivier
21 May 2006, 12:54 pm
Mr Skop Gat,
Paule is no good man, he is tiny and finished!
Brent Russel is a far better bet.
I see you also have steddy eddie, hmmm hy is ook maar a plonker!
21 May 2006, 12:57 pm
mackie,
the established boks are not part of this squad.
chilliboy calapele, JP pietersen, waylon murray, the ndungane twins and hilton Loberts are some of the guys in the squad.
it is basically guys earmarked for springbok greatness that are identified and they are given specialised coaching to prepare them for the tough international scene they are destined to enter soon.
it is a great initiative but it is very ‘select’ in my view.
i would also like to see Saru identify promising talents from townships and do the same thing (obviously less intensive) looking ahead to the future – as this idea or concept is a short term (fastracking) solution.
not that it is wrong though. these guys are hugely talented and deserve this sort of training, but i would also like to see some real work done in the real PDI communities or for a better word townships.
hats off to jake though, he came up with the idea, and he convinced SAB to sponsor it.
21 May 2006, 13:00 pm
Asha1(post 10) “Canes will pay”.
We will have to wait and see about that won’t we.
Edwil(post19),
You have Dannie Rossouw on the bench. After seeing last nights game I would put him ahead of Bakkies or Victoria.
To Anyone above who critised Habana;
You are a blind wanker. One touch of the ball against the Sadres—and OH MY what a touch.
But f-ck me, would they let him touch it again!
Habana is a rare talent–SA’s best wing since Ray M.
Tackler;
Please do not refer to Jerry as an “enforcer”–This conjures a negative image and as we all know Jerry is a living “Bona Fide” Saint.Hard but clean.
21 May 2006, 13:02 pm
Pete77 you guys had the toughest away draw and would have given the Saders a scare. Pity Stormers messed up last week. The Bulls are not a threat on the road.
21 May 2006, 13:04 pm
Unfortunately because the Bulls got smacked, the argument concerning their tactics…or lack of, will rage on.
The Bulls wanted to play the game in the Crusaders half and contest the set peices.
Why,oh ******* why……can’t any of the Bulls backs find touch then? How many times did the Bulls backs kick deep…straight down the Crusaders throats? Lets not even talk about the problem the Bulls have with protecting the ball…..they’ve been so inconsistant in this department all season.
Bulls played kak and got klapped by a bloody good side.
Seriously though, McCaw is a good player…but at least half of what he does is not penalized. He disengages from scrums before they are over, he constantly plays the ball while not on his feet….and if he can’t get the ball, he lies all over it. Why the hell is he given so much leeway?
Personally if I had to point to one specific thing that caused the Bulls defeat….it would have to be our kicking out of hand.This is still probably the reason that Heyneke Meyer backs Hougaard so much….the Bulls may not score as many tries with Hougaard at flyhalf, but the team gets to play the game in the oppositions half.
So basically, Hougaard needs to learn to pass or Steyn needs to improve his kicking out of hand ten fold or the both need to f-off and Potgieter(who is supposed to be the real deal anyway) starts playing now. Likewise, I think the last few weeks with Jaco at fullback have emphasised Roets’ value.I thought Jaco would add something at fullback….he does not, Roets is the man, defensively and tactically.
Also, if the Bulls want to seriously win these sort of games…a few players need to re-invent themselves as well as Meyer coming up with a few ideas.
Cronje cannot be accomodated in his current state.The Bulls just cannot afford Roussow and Cronje on the park at the same time in my opinion.They do not complement each other at all….both appear to be fighting to do exactly the same job on the field.
As an afterthought……possibly Meyer should make Danie Roussow a straight replacement for Jaque Cronje, Wannenburg should move to lock when Bakkies goes off to speed up the pack, Spies moves to 8(or possibly starts playing 7 full time?)…and Dhlulane is just getting better at 6.
All in all….a very dissappointing S14 campaign by the Bulls in my opinion.
21 May 2006, 13:09 pm
Rasta
Is the team drawn from all countries S14 or only SA.
The Sharks should be the best off of the CC teams with regard to the Bok withdrawals. As I understand it, only the regular Boks will be withdrawn which would be Smit, Monty and possibly AJ.
21 May 2006, 13:10 pm
StP
The beaty of the man named McCaw is his ability to play on the fringes of the law.This has been the outstanding feature of all great opensiders from the Iceman Michael Jones,Josh Kronfeld, Neil Back,George Smith and even our own Ruben Kruger.These players know when the ref is looking the other way and will as due course push the limits of the laws at every pus,this is seen the role of the specialised openside. Hats off to you Richie,an openside terrier of repute!!
21 May 2006, 13:11 pm
David
All countries and teams the most “votes” in each position clinches it.The idea from my side is to see with the huge difference of opinion on this site what will happen.
21 May 2006, 13:16 pm
CapeFlatsboy yeah I agree, I don’t think the sharks would have beaten the Saders but they would hav put up a better fight than the bulls.
It’s a shame that when a team has players like Jaco, Habana & Ndungane as a back three that they cannot work the ball to them more than once or twice a match.
I would like to see as many Sharks in the Bok 22 not because I think they are better or posses more potential than other plaers, but purely because I think they have the right attitude & are the only players use to playing with a bit of width & flair (much respect to Campese for that). If the boks are going to contest with the AB’s & French & Wallabies this year, they are going to have to learn to spread the ball in all conditions and away from home. That’s why I think those that are continously knocking White for selecting Snyman need to only compare the Boks backline play in Europe over the last half a decade to realise that we need players with Northern Hemisphere experience.
21 May 2006, 13:20 pm
Rastafox,
we will just have to agree to disagree…….
a ref not spotting that the worlds most prominent opensider is not binding properly, is just plain stupid in my opinion.
Surely refs must do some home work on certain sides and players beforehand…to just make their job easier come game time.
Ironically, you applaud the fact that he doesn’t get caught be do not deny that what he does is illegal?
Let me again state….he is an amazing rugby player, tough and uncompromising in the mould of our own past great Andre Venter, albeit slightly differing job descriptions these days.
But I believe that we have a Skalk Burger who is just as equally effective but is not given the benifit of the doubt as often.
Why not?
21 May 2006, 13:21 pm
I read an article by Gavin Rich in today’s Argus, where he writes about the skill and decision making or rather lack thereof of SA teams. He is of the opinion that one can see the influence campese had on the sharks as they were about theonly SA team where skill and decision making was evident.
This to me is really sad. Why do we have to get foreign coaches or ex greats in to help our players with these aspects? Surely the time has come for guys like hennie le Roux, Joel Stransky, Naas Botha and others to give up the Supersport studios and help SA rugby. After all these guys competed against the likes of Campese.
21 May 2006, 13:25 pm
I think we should’ve had a trials game every year. To work out gameplans. Imagine a game of this. They should practice controlled aggression. Any player acting irresponsibly on the field will be subbed right away.
I’d like to see a game between:
15.) Percy Montgomery
14.) Breyton Paulse
13.) Jacque Fourie
12.) Jean de Villiers
11.) Bryan Habana
10.) Jaco van der Westhuysen
9.) Fourie Du Preez
8.) AJ Venter
7.) Juan Smith
6.) Schalk Burger
5.) Victor Matfield
4.) Bakkies Botha
3.) CJ van der Linde
2.) John Smith
1.) Os du Randt
against:
15.) JP Pietersen
14.) Tonderai Chavanga
13.) Andre Snyman
12.) Wynand Olivier
11.) Brent Russel
10.) Butch James
9.) Ruan Pienaar
8.) Joe van Niekerk
7.) Wikus van Heerden
6.) Luke Watson
5.) Ross Skeate
4.) Danie Rossouw
3.) BJ Botha
2.) Schalk Brits
1.) Guthro Steenkamp
21 May 2006, 13:28 pm
Capeflatsboy (love the name by the way )
I hear what you saying, its a little frustrating that some of our bigger names of yesteryears rugby are getting their faces powdered in the broadcasting studios. The thing is that some of these boys have been offered various roles which they end up turning down. Wasn’t Naas offered a lucrative contract to coach the friggen Falcons. I know thats not a S14 team or involvment in the Bok side, but to me it seems as if these okes dont want to do it or dont want that pressure on them.
So having said that, lets bring in the overseas boys. Campese had a positive affect on the Sharks, hopefully this other Aussie chap will help the Boks!
21 May 2006, 13:29 pm
I also think that most Muppits need to temper their optimism with a dose of reality withregards the Sharks.
They were an unknown quantity playing high risk rugby this season.
Next time around they will no longer be an unknown quantity.
We all know what happens then?
Saying that…for the upcoming CC, they must be strong contenders but it remains to be seen how they operate without their 3 most experienced players.
21 May 2006, 13:33 pm
Yesterday they showed shots of the All Black selectors, Brian Lochore, Wayne Smith and Graham Henry. Brian Lochore was a legend, Wayne Smith was a good flyhlaf who toured here with the Cavaliers and before Grant Fox was the All Black flyhalf. I mean these guys are putting back into the game. I would really like guys like Naas and others to do the same. Even Francois Pienaar who won the World Cup must get involved.
21 May 2006, 13:37 pm
St Pete dont you think the Sharks are cloning their team on the Bulls?
They have a powerhouse pack. Butch should be their No1 flyhalf. In the centres they have hard straight runners and at the back they are very similar to the Bulls. Their 1 wing is an identical twin of the Bulls wings.
I am however concerned that next year when the laws pertaining to the mall changes, the Bulls pack will be nullified.
21 May 2006, 13:39 pm
Ironically Edwill….
Jake white has selected 45 players and not only 30.
And of your 30…..I think at least 6 don’t make his 45 because he does not rate them enough yet.
Personally,I’m a very concerned Bok fan, I don’t think we have one back that would make a S14 Dream Team, our wings in particular are very poor and I can see Habana being moved to 13 very soon, it is quite obvious that our back division needs more spark and speed in the mid-field, I also expect to see Brent Russel more often, we need more gamebreakers…..and only 3 forwards that possibly would. Bakkies,Wannenburg,Van Niekerk…..and they probably still wouldn’t.
21 May 2006, 13:45 pm
Capeflatsboy
Wasn’t Wayne Smith the ABs backline coach who developed the “flat backline” tactic that caused them so much trouble under Mitchell?
21 May 2006, 13:49 pm
Areas for concern for me is:
Fullback:
Right Wing
Flyhalf
no 5 jumper
21 May 2006, 13:50 pm
No when John Mitchell was AB coach, Smith went to Northampton. He was the head coach before Mitchell. He also coached the Crusaders and won the Super 12 with them as coach. He played test rugby at flyhalf for the Blacks.
21 May 2006, 13:53 pm
Edwill
I know it’s ******* freezing but Woolies have got a vast selection of jumpers to choose from.
21 May 2006, 13:54 pm
Edwill the entire Bok back-line is a concern.
21 May 2006, 13:55 pm
Capeflatsboy
Having a strong pack is a prerequisite to having a successful rugby side.If you don’t have one, your backs had better be **** hot…….like the Brumbies, but then, they usually lose finals against sides with a strong pack.
It’s worldclass backs our country is short of…..when last did we have a flyhalf who could dominate a game? Don’t say Honiball, he’s not in the same league as Wilkenson,Larkham, Mertens or Carter.When last did we have wingers who could break the line and burn you on the outside? When last have you seen us with centers who could side step, pass 20 meters either side and unload in the tackle? We’ve got some decent potential, but even our best are only realistically at 70% of their capabilities.
When last did we see our most talented players become the best they could become.Unfortunately…we always fall short in this department.
21 May 2006, 13:59 pm
nz herald had ruan as the pick for scrummie in the super 14 dreamteam. they also mentioned wannenburg as close 2nd behind tuali’i. no other saffas made it.
regarding sharks team trying to mimic bulls is most definitely not the case. the bulls have this season really tried to swing the ball, and maybe a few seasons from now they will get guys with full complement of skills playing in all back positions so that they do become effective attackers with ball in hand,
the sharks seem to show a little more accuracy in their decision making, not all campese’s work, and look to back themselves, their skill and decision making while in the firing line. i dont see that same confidence from the bulls. the bulls are still a little more conservative.
the conservative style is great for tests, but in super rugby it doesnt get a team anywhere.
the sharks took risks this super season and those risks paid off this time.
21 May 2006, 13:59 pm
Ste Pete
I am in full agreement with you on the backline problem. I believe Hougaard can be that world class flyhalf. Unfortunately he’s got a big head. Made it too quickly in domestic rugby and believed that he was the man. If he sorts out his head, he could be the man to dictate things from flyhalf.
Jacques Fourie and Jean de Villiers are a competent centre pairing. However we do not have quality wings (and here I include Habana – don’t believe he’s the complate article yet).
21 May 2006, 14:01 pm
Edwil,
you are concerned about Matfield or his backup?
Quite frankly,he’s as good as anyone in the world when he plays.
I would think in the current situation…Albert Van Berg is not a bad option.I personally don’t see the point of bringing in Skeate or Bekker now.Van Berg is a very experienced understaudy and exactly the sort of player you want to bring on if Vic where to go down injured in the WC.Why would you want to bring on an inexperienced lock.At the very most, if Skeate where to play every game from now to the world cup….he still wouldn’t be an Albert.
Keep them for after the world cup for when the cycle turns again.
21 May 2006, 14:10 pm
Tomsta
Forgot about Ruan Pienaar…..
I still wouldn’t start him for a test match.
It is easy for the NZers to select a srummie who can’t kick….they have Carter or about 2 or 3 other decent flyhalves.
We have not one flyhalf who we can claim to be a certain starter for the Boks.
You’ll probably find that JW starts with a scrumhalf who complements his flyhalf.
He could afford to start with Januarie or Pienaar if Pretorius is at flyhalf, a player that kicks well with either foot. If it’s Jaco at flyhalf……he’ll need DuPreez at scrumhalf, a player that can ease the tactical kicking burden.
Maybe if Butch James gets his best form back we can just select our best scrumhalf…..which is anyway a very debatable topic.
I did however think, that in the later stages of the competition we were starting to see the Old Joe Van Niekerk back……..although he went missing against the Bulls for 80 mins again.
21 May 2006, 14:41 pm
I find it hilarious when people say how bad the Bulls are and yet those same Bulls beat all the other SA teams.
The Bulls have now reached the semi-final two years in a row. They are certainly building nicely. Yes they didn’t have a great Super 14, but they still reached the last 4.
Winning the Super 14 is a huge task and I think the Bulls are still on track to win it in the next 2/3 years.
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