White slams player abuse
21 May 2006
The international season only kicks-off in two weeks’ time and already Springbok coach Jake White is complaining that his players have played too much rugby.
White told Reuters that he was not surprised Bakkies Botha and Bryan Habana had sustained injuries in a Super 14 match on Saturday and expressed concern about the fitness of his squad ahead of international fixtures.
Lock Botha (Achilles) and wing Habana (ankle) hobbled off the field as the Bulls lost their Super 14 semi-final against the Crusaders 35-15 in Christchurch on Saturday.
The Springbok training squad gathered in Bloemfontein last Wednesday to begin preparing for the international season. South Africa will play a friendly against a World XV on June 3, followed by home Tests against Scotland and France before the Tri-Nations series begins. Habana and Botha may only be back in time for the one-off Test against France in Cape Town.
“I could have told you before the game something like this was going to happen,” White told Reuters from the Springbok training camp on Sunday.
“We have been saying for a long time that the players are being asked to play too much rugby. Habana has had one week off since the start of the year and has played for a full two years before that,” explained White.
“And 72 hours before the semi-final Bakkies (Botha) was unlikely to play due to an Achilles injury. The fact that he only lasted 30 minutes suggests that he wasn’t fit to play. It’s very disappointing.”
White said he had not been in contact with the Bulls but that he believed his medical team had spoken to the Super 14 franchise’s management to assess how bad the injuries were.
“We will only know fully once they’re here and we are able to examine them,” he said. “Injuries are going to be a problem because my medical staff has informed me that some of the players are on the edge and the season is just starting.”
Fyhalf Andre Pretorius was unable to train at the camp and has already undergone groin surgery. Props Os du Randt (knee), Brendon Botha (back) and Eddie Andrews (shoulder) are also under an injury cloud while centre Marius Joubert (hand) is out for six weeks and Wayne Julies (knee) at least 10 days.
75 Comments
21 May 2006, 18:29 pm
The same old jake
21 May 2006, 18:39 pm
Let’s hope it is not like this in a year’s time…
21 May 2006, 18:42 pm
The decision to withdraw the players from the Currie Cup is utterly the right thing to do. It will ensure a group of fit and fighting players who are experienced in their positions at international level.
21 May 2006, 18:43 pm
Please Jake grow up , have you heard of something and now thats where youre going to end, the constant whinning of un conditioned SA rugby players. No one else in the world complains like you. And sir Woodward only won the world cup because SA was so **** , we were on par they wouldnt even make the semis. So your mentor took 10 years to get lucky , how much do you want.
A few years ago Tim Noakes had this scientific thing about bio rithems , and that if your mental and physical highs are reached the same time you will so superhuman no -one could touch you. Now say for instance in your WC semi final Victor , John Smit , and whoever have a mental low but a physical high would you drop them for that match. You are making it imposible for yourself to train these guys , there is just too many excuses.
Give the players more freedom and stop offering them with all this technical excuses , they are not your ex schoolkids they hear you and will use your own words against you when they need
Train basics not this non rugby tecnicalities and the Sa guts and determination will take us trough
21 May 2006, 18:58 pm
if our guys are playing too much rugby, then they must gave them less games to play in, not asking them to be rested for a couple of games but reformat the currie cup into something where less agmes are played but the action still remains and to get the super14 changed or we pull out 2 teams and only ahve 3 teams with more condensation of top players….
21 May 2006, 19:00 pm
Come on Jake, it’s the same old story every year! What’s this guy’s problem?! Rugby is a tough game.
Is this an excuse for if they lose against Scotland? Is it because of all the injured players? Jake White grow up!
21 May 2006, 19:15 pm
What cheeses me off the mosdt is Jake will happilly play Os, Smit, Bakkies, Matfield, Burger, Habana, Monty in every single game this year (like last year) without rotating and building squad depth, but he moans when S14 coaches do it….. Practice what you preach Jake.
21 May 2006, 19:25 pm
Then rest them during the S14. Take them out and let them rest. Let them play 2 games a year.
21 May 2006, 19:42 pm
Anyway i cant see the point of playing 3 times a year against NZ and AUS , especialy next year, the blame must go to BVR and the top bras. Its all about money. If we end up being 3/4th didnt matter to them as long as the cash came in
21 May 2006, 19:58 pm
****, the uninformed and STUPID comments in this thread already are unbelievable. Some people do not like hearing the truth.
Blokkies, if you really believe that – which is contrary to White’s own statements – then you are deluded too.
all those telling White to “grow up” simply because of the amount of rugby played and injuries beyond his control are in need of a reality check.
Welcome to the advent of professionalism. Welcome to the realities of those players playing at the highest level while you are in your armchairs expecting them to perform to your every whim week-in and week-out.
Pathetic. Grow up kiddies and get off the whinging pot. Enjoy someone as a coach who is professional, produces results, keeps people informed as much as possible and who keeps faith in his players.
*shakes head at mentality*
21 May 2006, 19:59 pm
Come on chaps, Jake has done a great job with the Springboks,especially after last years disastrous super14.We knew the Bulls had no chance of going throw to the finals.
The Saders rested Richie McCaw and still made it.
21 May 2006, 20:03 pm
How about this as a novel idea and a way for Jake to not only grow the depth of players of colour but to put his money where his mouth is:
I know this will never happen but I think it would work really well:
Start off the international season against the World 15 with a blend of as many POC as possible as well as all the new guys and the guys who need match practice: re: Shimmy and Solly for eg. So against a world 15 start off with a team like this:
1 Lorrie
2 Shimmy
3 Eddie
4 Bekker
5 Muller
6 Solly
7 Juan
8 Joe
9 Pienaar
10 Butch
11 Breytie ( I would have one of the Nduganes here)
12 Olivier
13 Fourie
14 Chavanga
15 Russel ( I would have Fortuin here )
Now let these ous have a run and the idea is that the ones that play well stay on the field and the ones that dont get subbed by the regular boys who are on the bench as in:
16 Smit
17 Os / CJ / Carstens
18 Matfield
19 Schalk
20 Januarie / FdP
21 Jaco/Pretoors/Monty
22 JdV
In this way you let the new ous have a run and you have insurance on the bench if anything goes haywire you just introduce them.
Players who play bad get moved to subs bench for the Scotland game, but must still be given about 30 minutes and reavaluated after that to see if they go back to starting lineup for the 2nd Scot test, stay on the bench, or out the 22 completely
The team can be slowly tweaked to look closer to the best 15 by the time the 3N starts, and at the same time everyones getting some game time, your regulars are getting rested but kept fresh. The thing is Jake knows what he has in his regulars and he needs to keep them sharp but not over play them, at the same time building up the confidence of the new players. How else are players like Solly and Shimmy going to get better if they are not gradually moved into the starting lineups regularly especially for games against Scotland, World 15 etc…..
Thoughts on my mad plan anyone?
21 May 2006, 20:11 pm
mikeybrass easy there tiger, and watch who you calling stupid. I can back up my comments regarding Jake playing the same players himself week after week.
I am a massive JW supporter, but that doesn’t mean I will just follow his every move with a happy acceptance when I think he is wrong. I travelled to Paris last year to watch a springbok team run out onto the pitch who looked dead on their feet from the word go, and that was because Jake had no choice but to play his same players week after week on a long end of year tour because he hadn’t built up depth and so wasn’t able to replace his exhausted players…… If you think voicing my dissatisfaction of that is sdtupid then maybe you should take a look in the mirror.
21 May 2006, 20:13 pm
So to sum up I am not denying that the S14 coaches have overplayed players cos they have. They are also short sighted poepalls, but the point I make is Jake cannot moan about it when it is something he does himself.
21 May 2006, 20:25 pm
Blokkies thats the point , the AB built up a second team as good as the first , remember last years grand slam sucsess , the depth of thier squad. If Jake wasnt so stubborn he would have had a replacement for every Bok player. Plus a lot of players knocking at the door.The ABs have no fear of losing any player , they have enough replacements , thats why they play with total comitment , no fear
Imagine what will happen if his blue eye boy John Smit is injured
21 May 2006, 20:32 pm
Exactly….
What about this for example: we have already losty Bakkies for a few weeks. What if we lose Smit, Burger and Monty in the first game of the season?
We would need to replace them with 3 players who might only have 10 test caps among them.
21 May 2006, 20:33 pm
I respect Jake as a coach a lot but I recon he’s trying to cover himself for potential losses. If the Bok season goes pear shaped then he can always blame fatigue for bad performances. Why he didn’t let players like Habana, Matfield and Os rest is beyond me, the WC is next year and they’re going to be beyond repair by then in terms of injuries. Let’s hope not, but it’s quite likely in my book.
At least there’s loads of talent in SA to fill the gaps and let’s hope Jake starts selecting players like Watson, the Nduganes etc to blood them before the WC.
21 May 2006, 20:40 pm
Since Jake became SAs coach he showed he has his favourite boys , we must understand his little private club is getting smaller. If what i say is not true why does he say the stuff he says to players like Schalk Brits , Luke and last year Ettiene
21 May 2006, 20:55 pm
You have to give White time to build up squad depth. He does not have the luxury of Henry in terms of quality depth he could have turned to. His first priority was to restore SA pride and to build a nexleus of players around which he could then build an extended squad. White, essentially, is having to build the depth himself. He now needs to provide the new players with international experience around a core of experienced players, not to throw an inexperienced team wholesale against the World XV. Watch White chop and change for a few matches, and watch him being prepared to lose a few matches to obtain the necessary strength in depth for next year.
So no, I will *not* watch who I am calling stupid. Stupid comments will be called stupid.
21 May 2006, 20:58 pm
Wespa, he did *not* have the luxury to rest those players. Now, as the structure are beginning to improve and new players emerging, he is able to begin to build on his successful platform to date.
He is, essentially, working to a long-sterm strategy. Those demanding a more instant fix are missing the point of a long-term process being required not only to obtain a core group of excellent players who win at international level, but both to build a large experienced group and to sustain that group as players loose form, retire, et al.
I also find criticism, without knowing the inner details of White’s plans and the structure he is putting in place behind the scenes, to be incredibly short-sighted and naive.
21 May 2006, 21:07 pm
too true mikeybrass,
and jake is absolutely the best coach in this country at present. Even Meyer and Rassie aren’t to his standard yet, or might never be. The only coach i see which is getting things right like Jake is **** Muir. Also has a proffessional attitude to his job, and understands the game. Go Jake – tell everybody how pathetic they can be, i’m also pissed about Bakkies getting injured. Habana is another so vital player. And habana should have come onto the second half, we should start off the semi with frikkie and akona on th e wings, and habana as a final booster. anyway that is history.
Jake has to play the best boks week after week. It is the Super14 teams that should have depth and be able to smartly manage their players. As a south african i expect to have a consistent best Bok XV. And Jake is absolutely right. The answer is consistency and giving the best boks the much needed test experience, and the boks shouldn’t really be looking for answers, but rather be the top team without any questions.
Ofcourse there are a few controversial Jake’s acts, but he is right. I cannot understand why so many of you keep shooting Jake down, even though he is the only coach producing the results. Afterall only that matters!
21 May 2006, 21:17 pm
yip long-tern strategy, well said – which is exactly what Jake has in mind. He also is so perfect with bringing great rugby brains to get some basic things right in the squad. He is not afraid to discuss and consult rugby with people who have more knowledge on specific areas of rugby thatn jake has, and jake knows that – and intends to learn, at the same time establishing a real team with character, passion, experience and know-how.
Other coaches would close the team’s doors from all sides, of fear that some one would show that they’re better than the coach himself. I’m a fan of Jakes intelligent management style. His role being to be able to establish the best training conditions for the boks with the most proffessionally working staff. An other thing is that jake is open to many ideas, he’s been too many countries looking for the best option/answers and is always keen to have a decent chat on rugby with any of the world’s rugby brain.
21 May 2006, 21:22 pm
Just tell are you blind or just dumb look at his away record and his results against the big 4 countries and then you might come out of your domgeit. Jakes in his 3rd year as coach how long you want to build and how much experience do you want. Gary Botha was for 3 years a reliable back up for JS and his ok experience is how much , 10 minutes. I can go on and on about missed opportunities by Jake the point is he is already getting other scapegoats , and that pisses me off.
21 May 2006, 21:24 pm
Oh Jake, stop bitching already… What were the Bulls supposed to do – rest their best players for the semi? Get real dude.
21 May 2006, 21:27 pm
Ek stem 100% saam dat die ouens heeltemal te veel rugby speel. Dit sal wonderlik wees indien die top ouens spaarsamig in volgende jaar se S14 gebruik word. Maak byvoorbeed ‘n reel dat ouens soos Bakkies, Smit, Os Burger ens net in 8 van die 13 groep wedstryde mag speel. Die coach van die francise kan dan self besluit in watter 8 sy ouens gaan speel. Kyk maar mooi hoe rus die AB’s en Ausies hulle sleutelspelers in die volgende jaar of wat. Solank alles net goed beplan word. Ek stem saam dat ons nie kan bekostig om ‘n “swak” span te kies net om ouens in die setup te kry nie. ‘n Wenkultuur is meer belangrik.
21 May 2006, 21:30 pm
Keo how about a vote poll to see what we all rate the most winning the WC or winning games in between WC tournaments in other words constant performance against winning a tournament once every 4 years
21 May 2006, 22:09 pm
Butch also injured , whats going on in Bloem
21 May 2006, 22:11 pm
read this on news24
Bloemfontein – Springbok captain John Smit will be in for a very busy season.
National coach Jake White said here at the Bok training camp in Bloemfontein that he has no plans to rest his captain in the coming international season.
21 May 2006, 22:18 pm
Christchurch – The New Zealand Rugby Union could become the first of the Tri-Nations partners to curtail Super 14 participation of a large number of their top players next year.
A proposal by national Kiwi coach Graham Henry, that up to 30 All Blacks be wrapped in cotton wool next season to prepare for the 2007 Rugby World Cup in France, has become an intense discussion point.
Henry is apparently suggesting that the top players are withdrawn from the Super 14 for at least six weeks.
It is virtually certain that he has the last few weeks at the start of the business end of the series in mind.
This year’s fourth place on the Super 14 log was determined by the final league phase after the Bulls beat the Stormers by the required 33 points.
Henry’s radical proposal published in the Sunday Star Times has caught the Kiwi rugby bosses on the wrong foot. The union’s CEO, Chris Moller, was vague in his response about the possible opposition Henry’s proposal could expect.
Moller has confirmed that talks are to take place with the five Super franchises on Wednesday and the union’s 2007 Rugby World Cup planning committee will discuss it the same evening.
The union’s board of directors will discuss Henry’s proposal on Thursday.
Moller could not give any indication when a final decision would be taken saying: “Perhaps on Thursday, perhaps in a week’s time or maybe a month,” is all he was prepared to say.
All the role players
The All Blacks coach mooted the proposal last year and the matter was discussed with all the role players in New Zealand rugby over Easter.
This included the country’s five Super franchises – the Blues, the Chiefs, the Crusaders, the Highlanders and the Hurricanes, who are not too happy with the proposal.
The Crusaders are struggling, as it is, to fill the Jade stadium, despite their brilliant home record and with stars like Richie McCaw and Daniel Carter in their midst.
It should be filled to capacity the for first time this season on Saturday, when the Crusaders play the Hurricanes in the final of the Super 14.
When the Crusaders played the Bulls on only 24 000 spectators went through the turnstiles in stead of the 35 000 who were expected.
The New Zealand franchises biggest worry is that their stadiums could be virtually empty if the top players are not included in the Super 14 teams. They are very dependent on gate income and season ticket sales.
The Super 14 series forms part of the exclusive broadcast contract News Ltd has with the three Sanzar partners – Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The opinion of the giant sponsor about the withdrawal of 30 All Blacks will also have to be taken into consideration.
There will definitely be repercussions from the other two Tri-Nations partners if the New Zealand Rugby Union agrees to Henry’s proposal.
They would also want to withdraw their players in the second half of the Super 14 series.
21 May 2006, 22:19 pm
LOL, got that from News 24 as well!!! So we will be caught with our pants down again!!!
21 May 2006, 22:22 pm
The coach said: “I initially considered giving John a break, but first he was suspended and shortly afterwards injured, which kept him sidelined for eight weeks.
“Thus he has had his breather. Wikus can be a big asset as a No 6 and a No 7 flank, but there’s not a shortcut to becoming captain.
“I’m not going to change my entire team when I need a captain. I can, for example, also make someone like Os du Randt (loosehead) the captain.”
It is not the first time that White has mentioned Du Randt as a possible captain. He has a knee injury at present and the Bok camp hopes he will recover in time to play against Scotland in Durban on June 10.
Smit will play in his 50th match as hooker against the World team. He has also represented his country as prop.
Bloemfontein – On Thursday Springbok coach Jake White and SA Rugby will hold their most important meeting yet before the 2007 World Cup in France.
White is going to ask SA Rugby to relax their stranglehold on him and his top players like Victor Matfield (lock), Schalk Burger (flank), Bryan Habana (wing) and Jean de Villiers (centre) so that they can be rested this year without the threat of him being fired if the Boks do not perform without these stalwarts.
“This will be an important meeting. It will depend on the outcome of this meeting whether I can rotate certain players in Tests this year,” said the coach.
If SA Rugby turns down his request, White will be forced to consider Matfield for all 12 Tests in 2006 as well as the match against the World Team at Ellis Park on June 3.
White has a performance clause in his contract and he could be dismissed if he did not select his best team to play in the Tests without the permission of SA Rugby.
The coach does not only have the 2007 RWC tournament at the back of his mind. Some of his stalwarts could be injured prior to the start of the Tri-Nations series as a result of the hectic programme this year and the Boks will then face major problems.
The Boks will not be the first team to give some of the top players a breather. The All Blacks hope to rest about 30 top players.
Request to SA Rugby is two-fold
England will be doing the same. It is hoped that SA Rugby will have the interests of the Springboks at the top of its priority list if the aim is that South Africa win the RWC for the second time.
Matfield is the top No 5 Bok lock and also the South African player who has played the most rugby the past year. He shone in the Bulls’ semi-final against the Crusaders in Christchurch and deserves a break.
White’s request to SA Rugby is two-fold. He wants to give top players like Matfield a rest, and by doing this he wants to ensure that the Boks do not make an early exit from the Rugby World Cup.
“We need Bakkies (Botha, lock) and Victor fit and injury free for the World Cup.”
“But we must also be prepared for injuries. That’s why we have players like Albert van den Berg, Danie Rossouw, Andries Bekker and Johann Muller in the squad, even though it will be difficult to play without the experienced lock partnership of Victor and Bakkies.”
If SA Rugby approves, it means that players such as, among others, Matfield, Habana, Burger and De Villiers could be used at White’s discretion.
The Bok training squad in Bloemfontein has problems as it is, given the number of players injured in the Super 14 series. Some of them have not been given enough time to recover and work on their conditioning.
21 May 2006, 22:26 pm
Waar kom die %$@#*&% wet vandaan wat se JW gaan gefire word as die bokke verloor?? Wonder of daai reel vir Fester en Nick Mallett ook geld
21 May 2006, 22:28 pm
“Well”, says Jake, as he puts his razor back in the cupboard and has one last look in the mirror this morning, “that’s got me covered, if the Bok’s crash and are humiliated in Tests this year”
“now what other overseas coaches can I borrow…Maybe Robbie Deans could come over and show the boys some basic ball handling and retention skills…they could come in handy”
21 May 2006, 22:31 pm
Smit played is 50th test against Wales last year and as far as I understand the World XV game is not an official test os no caps for the boys.
21 May 2006, 22:32 pm
It’s not as though JW has exactly had the cooperation of the S14 franchises. For example the coaches have not been prepared to experiment with different positions so JW can evaluate them in match situations. Apart from this he’s had to deal with the usual politics to keep everyone happy – and here he has not had the support of the provinces. He has had a bit of a mountain to climb, plenty of ‘off the ball’ stuff that his counterparts like Graham Henry and even Eddie Jones never had to deal with. There seems to be this inability to cooperate with any national vision. As long as it persists it will affect the game. In fact JW has done pretty well considering what he started with. He’s not perfect but noone is – remember all the calls for Mallet’s return; memories are short – people forget how destructive he could be, how he axed Teichmann at the worst possible time, how he shattered Du Toit’s confidence and how he portrayed Paulse a player who was selected to fulfil quotas.
So part of the problem here is the impatience of the fans. They want to build but they want success now or else. Is it JW’s fault that the Bull’s decided to kick possession to the Crusaders all day – something they have been doing every year. There are several coaches whose skills leave much to be desired.
21 May 2006, 22:33 pm
Ricane …….are you trying to be funny or are you just an idiot?
21 May 2006, 23:32 pm
I read on News24 that Jake has to go and ask his employers whether they will relax the clause in his contract that states he must play his strongest team at all times. This is purely so that he can rest players like Matfield and Habana. He is clearly between a rock and a hard place. I think Jake has already got to add to the 45 he’s already chosen. Butch James will now also be out for a short while. What happens if this occurs near the world cup and the younger players aren’t familiar to the playing style. We will have injuries during the world cup too. Henry wants to withdraw 30 players for about half of the super 14. We may as well do that too. It’s less important.
22 May 2006, 02:28 am
A year ago Jake’s team escaped with a very lucky draw in the first test versus France in the Eastern Cape (the game where a chicken had to be shooed off the field, remember?)
His excuse was that they were “ring-rusty” at the start of the test season.
Now he says they are over-played!
Every lame excuse in the book comes from Jake’s beak, doesn’t it?
22 May 2006, 02:53 am
Just trying to rattle your cage, Princess dear
Wait til the Boks do get a whipping from the
All Blacks, then I’ll try to be funny!
I was actually hoping to post congratulations to the Bulls for fighting so valiantly but they absolutely capitulated…didn’t even work the Saders over for the Canes to finish off!
22 May 2006, 04:04 am
ricane – don’t worry – it’ll be your turn next week. I fully expect the Saders to run through, around and over your lot.
Tackle Bag – Whatever – just one question phuckwitt – how many Boks are currently injured?
22 May 2006, 04:33 am
Jake, your full of it.
You can get injured even in training.Let that not be made an excuse.
The AB’s play a ton of rugga and yet most of ‘em are available.If not (WoodCock,Williams) , then they have adequate replcements(Tialata,Eton).
Use this oppurtinity to test the depth of the Bokke by playing a ‘second string’ team against the Scotts.
22 May 2006, 04:38 am
Ricane,
Remember what Tana said last year when the Saders beat the Canes in the S12 semi ?
“It will take us a few years to build up a winning
structure/culture like the Saders”
Remeber the Score ? 47 – 7.
Ya think the Canes are going to do better this time ?
22 May 2006, 05:00 am
How many Boks are injured? (#40) Does it matter?
Well, Jake says that having EIGHT crocks out of his select training squad are eight too many. After all, it’s half a team.
(Bakkies, Butch, Petoors, Os, BJ, Eddie, Marius and Julies, so far. Probably a few more will report as sick, lame & lazy by the time you read this.)
22 May 2006, 05:01 am
Make that 9 with Habana.
22 May 2006, 05:19 am
Update: make it 13, with CJ, Percy Bolla and Pedrie…
22 May 2006, 05:44 am
We get it Tackles.
22 May 2006, 05:52 am
Exactly Tackle Bag – Except it was a farking rhetorical question, fool.
22 May 2006, 06:58 am
hmmm anybody wondered – maybe saru should make a decision like:
No Springbok (that list would be decided by jake or selectors) can play in a south african derby. Instead of destroying each other, the boks would concentrate and perform only against the aussies and kiwis. This would also something similar to Henry’s withdrawal of the all blacks for half the super14 next year.
22 May 2006, 07:18 am
Taurus , no trails , no competing against your direct opponent , next you will breed Boks in a lab and grow them up and play them exclusively in tests. Proefbuis Bokke
22 May 2006, 07:21 am
Gee some of you are complete dimwits!! The taurus and Mikeybrass are about the only 2 with any common sense! JW is not making excuses he is stating the bloody obvious! It should not be up to the National coach to start resting and managing players at national level. This should be done at the lower levels FFS!! An ideal world would be for 60 odd players to be contracted to SARugby and then JW discusses and agrees with the S14 and CC coaches how many games and when each player will be available for S14 and CC. The S14 and CC franchises would pay SARugby for the services of these players on a pay per play basis.
If only the country had the Springboks interest as their major priority!!
As I said an ideal world!!
PPS. If a player is limited to 28 games a year then he should be available for ALL 13 (or however many there are) Bok games first then the remaining 15 games can be found in S14 and CC!!
22 May 2006, 07:23 am
To continue – it is a business and you should manage and protect your assets as best you can to maitain optimum performance!
22 May 2006, 07:39 am
2 much rugby for sure, far too many games against ABs and Aus every damm year , it will loose it apeal. I personaly can not get excited in playing the ABs 3 times a year, 3 times a year every 2nd year might be beter.
the s14 could also be devided in 2 sections ,add 2 teams and play 2 groups , and the CC can also be the top 8 teams only, that would give the players the three tiers to climb
22 May 2006, 07:51 am
Well, yes… Firstly we need to define what exactly too much rugby means. To take the two examples at hand – surely for forwards too much rugby would be something completely different to the backline players.
Firthermore, Bakkies for example has hardly played for more than 60 minutes during any game this year. Surely then there are forwards who have had an equal or better work rate but for 80 minutes per game…??
Habana’s workrate has not striked me as something extraordinary this year and although he scored a few brilliant tries, a lot of the time he really idled and hang around on the wing. Not sure that I can agree he has played too much rugby this season…
Other examples – Pretorius?? He was injured most of the season, therefore definitely not too much rugby causing his injury!
It’s very easy to cry wolf in general terms. However, careful analysis of players’ workrate and time spent on the field during the season, is warranted before conclusions are made.
22 May 2006, 07:57 am
bluestripe, think of how many times these players also have to train every freakin week. Habana has not had rest for the last 2 or so years. this is unacceptable. It will probably be much better this yr as they wont be involved in the CC.
Look at McCaw, he got rested for more than 2 games this S14 and if i’m not mistaken he never played much NPC last yr…
22 May 2006, 08:10 am
Koos and Japie from POTCHEFSTROOM were in Pretoria for the Currie Cup Final when they suddenly spotted this sign on a shop window:
Suits R20–00 each
Shirts R10–00 each (Two-Tone only)
Trousers R8–00 per pair
Koos says to his pal. “Hey Japie, check at that! Bliksem, we could buy a whole load of that clothes… then when we get back we could resell them and make us a moerse fortune!”
“Now listen boet, when we go into the shop you keep your big mouth shut, hey! Just you let me do all the talking plus wheeling and dealing stuff,
‘because if they hear your POTCHEFSTROOM accent, they might try to rip us off. I’ll be giving them my best PRETORIA accent so they think we’re locals.”
They go in and Koos says, “Excuse me sir, I’ll take 50 of your finest suits at R20 each, plus 100 shirts at R10 each, and 50 pairs of your trousers at just R8 each. I will be paying in cash, and taking those items with me today, if you don’t mind.”
The owner of the shop interrupts, “You guys is from POTCHEFSTROOM, isn’t you?”
“Err….ja” says Koos, “how come you know?”
The owner says, “This are a dry-cleaners you doos!
22 May 2006, 08:16 am
Well Jake .. best you start developing some depth in all the possitions .. you are already a year to late on that score, but rather late than never.
22 May 2006, 08:27 am
Anvil #42. ite a different attitude this year and it shows in the close games.
I dunno if we can beat the saders, we can certainly play better the that excuse of a Bulls team did, and we can do better than we did against the Saders earlier in the season, which was a very close game.
We have what it takes to win, will we do it
It will defintely be an exciting finale to the season!
22 May 2006, 08:29 am
Fair enough wpw,
guess the point I’m trying to make, is that there has to be more scientific ways to establish which players are playing how much rugby at what intensity and there should be guidelines to measure against. Not this generalised “too much rugby” thing…
I’m sure if you ask Heineke’s opinion on Bakkies this season, he would argue that he managed Bakkies quite well throughout? And he’s probably not wrong either.
Maybe we can get that dry-cleaner in Pta to keep the records for them – check how many times he cleaned each players’ jersey and how dirty they were…!!
22 May 2006, 08:33 am
Superbul – your post no 4 is a rambling hotchpotch of addled nonsense. Anyone wanting a good laugh on a Monday morning, have a gander at it.
Initially I thought one would have to just remove any sense of style and class to become a Bulls supporter. Now I’ve realised you have to have a complete brain removal – maybe just leave the stem.
Superpussycat
22 May 2006, 08:35 am
ricane – The Shady Pines Retirement Home first 15 could do better than the Bulls did….
22 May 2006, 08:54 am
So JAKE – its fine to complain!! What is the solution??? U had the chance end of 2005 to NOT take key players on tour, yet u did??
Everybody’s head is on the chopping block at CC, S14 and Int level – so why would any team NOT use the resources they pay a fortune for?
22 May 2006, 09:18 am
At the rate this injury spree is going the springboks are going to cancel their season because Jake only believes in picking a certain group of so-called “wunderkinds†or “chosen –onesâ€. He has the chance to rest some of these players and to develop new talent but his to stubborn to do it. I smell a wippin coming this season….and the excuses has already been formulated!
22 May 2006, 09:35 am
RiCane,
Re the Bulls,I am dissappointed about the Bulls performance.But given their on and off form,I think they did well to get to the top 4.
Frazer,
Shady pines retirement 15 would better your women in black.Just like the Bulls did.
22 May 2006, 09:50 am
Must admit that while Jake is correct in general about player burnout in this instance he might be off the boil , I mean Bakkies played only 60 mins of most games this year and Habana if anything needs to play a bit more and he was badly off form midway only coming right now.
PS – WPW – Post 55 , LMAO – good one!!!!
22 May 2006, 10:52 am
Anvil – WTF are you talking about? The Iraqi womens team?
22 May 2006, 11:01 am
Frazer, Let me give you a hint.
75 – 14
43 – 10
22 May 2006, 11:09 am
I juts red this on the Supertsprt site.
By Gavin Rich:
White added that his medical staff had informed him that several of the players at the camp were “on the edgeâ€.
However, while White fumes about the Super 14 coaches overusing players, it needs to be remembered that when he had the opportunity to give the top players much needed consecutive (continuous) rest by giving them off the last end of year tour, he did not use it.
When a possible extra test against Italy was also mooted for the end of year tour, White was also all for it.
And instead of giving his players a rest opportunity at the end of the current season, which could be important before next year’s World Cup, he has instead managed to convince SA Rugby that they should be rested during the Currie Cup.
This effectively means that the players will be “resting†at a time when their season is still on the go as White will be calling them into action for the end of year tour to England and Ireland, where three tests, and maybe a possible fourth against a World tea, are scheduled.
On top of all of this, White has stated, according to reports, that he will not be resting Springbok skipper John Smit during the international season. He may have his reasons for this, but then Heyneke Meyer undoubtely probably had his reasons for playing Botha against the Crusaders.
Jake is staring to lose the plot. Bakkies was managed so well, everybody complained he hasn’t had more than 60 minutes the whole season, anf NOW he has been overused. Shut up JAke, you are looking like a ****** idiot. And Habana was rested against the Crusaders. Jake obviously would have rested Habana in a Semi-final! And he stated John Smit is not going to have any rest.
Jake is becoming like Woodward, more and more. I’m starting to get a dislike in him….
22 May 2006, 12:05 pm
Anvil – What are those numbers – the amount of times you correctly guess which team someone supports? 14 from 75 is not at all impressive… And what’s the 10 from 43? The amount of times you haven’t been let down by your Bulls? Also nothing to shout about…
22 May 2006, 12:08 pm
All you have to do is Look at the record of SA. You can take that away from him. Let him do what he wants and need to do and when the time comes you can judge him, only then.
So I think he is doing a great job. The point he made was he was already injured and they made him play so, they took a chance knowing he was injured. THAT WAS THE POINT.
No need to judge the guy before the season has even started.
22 May 2006, 12:34 pm
LMFAO Frazer!
I gotta give up on you now mate,cuase if this goes on I’d die of laughter at your lame comebacks.
22 May 2006, 12:35 pm
LondenBul, its you thats looking that way.
22 May 2006, 13:42 pm
Anvil – Exactly what I thought. You’re a Bulls supporter – you got nothing!!!!
22 May 2006, 14:13 pm
Superbul you are illiterate and a moron. Typical doff, stubborn Bulls supporter’s view. The National side is what matters the most and Jake White had valid points. Plus he wasnt critisizing the Bulls coaching staff, just saying Habana and Bakkies have played too much. You need to learn punctuation and how to write.
22 May 2006, 16:52 pm
So Jake is starting with the excuses already?
23 May 2006, 09:33 am
The only way to get players to rest more is to scrap the Super 14 and the Tri nations. Go back to playing club rugby, even the bloody Springboks. Bring back the Easter club championships and only there after start with the curriecup. Bring back decent tours like All Blacks in SA for a 6 week tour playing 4 tests and a couple of midweek games. Bring the British lions an go there. Stop the end of year simple player burn out tours.
The paying public would like to see NZ play the Falcons on a tuesday and the Boks on Saturday. That way it will ensure that you have at least 30 players in your squad that can play test rugby.
For once I would like “Moaner White” to stop complaining. He moans abbout the players playing too much but also states that his captain won’t get much rest. Why not set an example your bloody *******???????
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