Jake fires up Visagie
2 Jun 2006
Springbok coach Jake White has made another outrageous selection outburst.
And his latest comments could come back to haunt him by the time the match against the World XV is concluded.
Comments by veteran Bok prop Cobus Visagie earlier this week that he would like to challenge for a spot in White’s World Cup squad next year have received the cold shoulder from the Bok coach on the eve of the first match of the international season.
White says he has more than enough front-rowers at his disposal and will only be watching the performance of Deon Carstens – who will be directly opposed to Visagie – at Ellis Park on Saturday. Visagie, he says, does not feature in his immediate or future plans.
He could surely have reserved judgement until after his Springbok XV play the World XV. What happens if Visagie scrums Carstens into the ground? White could again be left with large amounts of egg on his face.
Furthermore, White’s comments will surely add fuel to Visagie’s fire as he will now be extra motivated to prove the Bok coach wrong and give Carstens the working over of his life.
“We’ve got more than enough props in South Africa and we’ve given them a lot of time and attention,” White told Beeld’s Hennie Brandt. “We have Eddie (Andrews), Lawrence (Sephaka), Deon (Carstens), BJ (Botha), CJ (Van der Linde), Os (Du Randt) and Guthro (Steenkamp). We don’t need another prop to join us.”
“There’s no benefit in it for us to exclude one of our players now after all the work and attention we’ve given them. I’m quite anxious to see how Deon performs against Cobus. I’m not going to watch how Cobus plays,” he said in Beeld.
32-year-old Visagie, a veteran of 29 Tests for South Africa before leaving for Britain in 2003 to further his rugby career at Saracens, was always keen to deliver a commanding display back on home soil.
And now he has the perfect reason.
248 Comments
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2 Jun 2006, 13:05 pm
Yeah !!! Waar is Skim nou ???
2 Jun 2006, 13:05 pm
Hello maatjies
2 Jun 2006, 13:06 pm
Groot
Wat se jy?
2 Jun 2006, 13:06 pm
Meeting. see you okes later
2 Jun 2006, 13:06 pm
what are the chances ao making a few strategic calls and get the Kiwi’s and Carter in particular framed for match fixing…..seems to be the latest thing, even soccer on the soggy island
2 Jun 2006, 13:09 pm
Ou Grootste,
Ek is vandag soooooo ****** lui, jy kan met my koekies bak…..wag net tot Bokfokopin Ozzie sy neus hier uithang….dan sal jy my sien wakker word.
Lekker dag buite hier in Verre Oos Jozi, of laat ek dit sommer reguit sê..Brakpan!!
2 Jun 2006, 13:09 pm
Why not just slip something in his drink and claim he was mates with big dell?
2 Jun 2006, 13:10 pm
not comparing butch to carter at all, think he is the only SA flyhalf that when on song can contain and give carter a good run for his money…
piss ant, carter is just about god of flyhalf and probably the best player in the world and even of the decade…
2 Jun 2006, 13:11 pm
Ig. A likely story.
Your prowess is legendary!
2 Jun 2006, 13:11 pm
The World Cup is more than a year away and there is much to be done in the mean time.The Boks as they stand right now are not world beaters and have their work cutout this season.The poor form of many first-choice Boks this season is cause for concern.Jake White has done reasonably well without dominating world rugby in any sense.
If we take a rational and calm look at the Boks under White we see a competitive team that has done far better than their predecessors and done much to erase the pain of the 2003 World Cup.The team that played at that World Cup were poor by any standards and still made the knock-outs.Hell would sooner freeze over than the Boks missing the playoff rounds.This is the order of world rugby.
So it is no superhuman effort to win all ones home games,it would be expected by any of the top 6 nations and appreciated by those lower down the order.It is away that truly good teams win and it is here where Jake and his boys have been poor.
In perspective winning against Argentina home or away should be a given despite the Pumas huge improvement in recent years.Beating the likes of Scotland,Wales and Ireland home or away should not represent a major obstacle.The French too should be regularly beaten and Italy despatched anywhere with ease.It is however in the South that we struggle most and Australia and New Zealand must be cracked away for us to establish any form of world dominance.
Our last 5 away games have yielded a good win vs Australia (22-19 in Perth),a scrappy win vs a weakened Pumas XV (34-23 in Beunos Aires),a convincing win against a woeful Wales (33-16) in Cardiff and two narrow losses to New Zealand and France.All told a decent effort and worthy of our No. 2 ranking in world rugby.
This year we need to go one better and this team needs to show that they are indeed ready to accept the challenge of world dominance.Looking at this years fixtures it will be make or break.
There are two tune-ups vs Scotland who must be despatched in style on home soil.A loss to the resurgent Scots at home is unacceptable and unlikely.The French are as ever a dangerous proposition anywhere and with an experienced squad must be beaten,this is Test may well set the tone for the season.
Then it is off to Australia and New Zealand for 2 against the Aussies and 1 against the All Blacks.Fortunately the draw favours us in having 2 home games against New Zealand,with one vs the Aussies and this may well provide the opportunity to regain the Tri-nations trophy.We must however win at least one away game against Oz and all our home games to secure this.It does not seem too much to ask.
We then have the question of revenge at Landsdowne Road and this will be a tough assignment as ever.The climax of the year will be successive Tests vs England at Twickenham and these two fixtures could be the make or break of the year,we simply have to win at least one of these Tests to be satisfied with this year.
2 Jun 2006, 13:11 pm
Ou Grote,
He wasn’t that impressive at Newlands this year either when he came on, maybe he hates CPT?
2 Jun 2006, 13:12 pm
I dunno big g, I’ve never seen Butch on song.
I’ve heard everybody talk about the mythical Butch James diva of the pocket but have yet to actually witness it and I’ve pretty much seen every game he has ever played.
He was either yellow carded or injured but never really seen him attain the mythical status that you hear the sharks fans and Jake White claim.
Maybe it was when he was in hgih school.
2 Jun 2006, 13:12 pm
Ag no man rasta,
This was a fooking long post, didn’t read it, am to lazy today
2 Jun 2006, 13:13 pm
Vinnie, do what you want as long as it works. remember the 95 cup final, the kisi’s complained about food poisoning, who knows any chefs in france and what would it cost???
2 Jun 2006, 13:14 pm
Why you guys arguing about Carter.
He’s gorge.
End of debate.
2 Jun 2006, 13:14 pm
Could always have a word with Arsene Wenger’s chef buddy at the Radisson…
2 Jun 2006, 13:14 pm
vinnie, he had a very good season just before he was injured, stepped up a level, by far and away the best 10 in SA at that time. Place kicking was superb, tackling solid (headhigh stopped), and distribution shithot, dont know if he’ll ever get back tho.
2 Jun 2006, 13:17 pm
never write off the aussies boys … and carter can be controlled with a decent quick loose trio, not Jake’s friggin carthorses like Cronje and co.
you can control the game from the breakdown and compete for the ball, preventing Carter from getting every opportunity available – that’s why Watson should be there.
2 Jun 2006, 13:21 pm
Derick Hougaard also had a great season once cab.
Butch James has never lived up to the hype.
2 Jun 2006, 13:25 pm
Depends what you mean by great, Hougaardt invariabaly kicks like a machine, but cant ever get his backline moving. we’ll have to disagree on butch, when he calms down with his tackling, best 10 we’ve had since Honiball.
2 Jun 2006, 13:31 pm
Cab, i agree with the James tackeling thing. I reckon the referee’s have him marked before the start of a game. I might have been a good thing he has been injured so long, hopefull ref’s would have forgotten all about his antics. Also makes him want to make a huge come back.
2 Jun 2006, 13:33 pm
Can you believe it, must go from sandton to Midrand in Friday afternoon trafic for aq 3 o clock management meeting that will probably go on till 5. This is cutting into my drinking time. Some people are so inconsiderate…..
2 Jun 2006, 13:35 pm
Dawn 215,
I am sure that’s what the dabate was about.
2 Jun 2006, 13:37 pm
vinnie
I am envious re 7′s.
I am working overtime tomorrow.
But I will make it to the pub for kickoff.
2 Jun 2006, 13:37 pm
I agree with Vinnie, especially since Butch’s tackling was closely watched he wasn’t the impact he was when he came into the fold.
2 Jun 2006, 13:37 pm
Dawn
My sack is itchy, care to scratch?
2 Jun 2006, 13:38 pm
I don’t suppose that anybody might think JW is deliberately firing Visagie up in order to test Carstens against a pissed off top ranked front rower.
If Visagie destroys Carstens I don’t see why JW would have egg on his face he would merely have answered another question.
If Carstens holds up well against Visagie or even dominates him JW will know he has a world cup prop able to absorb pressure at a higher level.
Keo, JW is our best chance at RWC glory he is doing a great job perhaps you could start putting a positive spin on some of your posts and then perhaps that could filter through to the squad. It seems you have an agenda against JW he has implemented a lot of common sense initiatives within the bok set up, steps that this site has begged for in the past and now it is happening you change your stand point and criticise. I just can’t understand it!!!!
2 Jun 2006, 13:41 pm
Always knew you had pubic lice. Itchy buggers huh. And what about that herpes.
2 Jun 2006, 13:44 pm
Dawn
You crude cow, I was taling about the sack where I keep my dice in.
I am gambling this weekend.
2 Jun 2006, 13:45 pm
Nick Mallet started doing this when it was the beginning of the end for him. You can’t really undersatnd why he would say something like this even if he doesnt want Visagie in the team. It definitely appears to be arrogance
2 Jun 2006, 13:51 pm
Jake is making it harder 2 root fully 4 the boks.Im a bok supporter but the things that jake has said so far&the kak selections hes made,makes me wanna hope the boks loose so that he can realise that he is not gods gift 2 rugby.I really believe that he likes the sound of his own voice.No bok coach has ever been so arrogant.
2 Jun 2006, 14:03 pm
I think Jake went too far this time. He is an arogent son af a ***** and a blind one at that. I agree with jakesfourie. I hope the springboks get such a hiding that Jake can shut his dam mouth. Despite the fact that it is good for a coach to have faith in his players Jake has a little too mutch faith in Deon. Its just as stupid as putting Brent Russel onto the field and saying: “I know you can do it. Now go out there and tackle the **** out of Jonah Lomu”. I think Deon Carstens is shiting in his pants becouse he knows Jake has put alot of presure on him. Visagie is going to kill Deon.
2 Jun 2006, 14:08 pm
Jake has shot himself in the foot yet again… So pressure on DC now. Cobus has nothing to lose – Go Cobus!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 Jun 2006, 14:09 pm
ag dont be silly.
A true supporter should not wish for his/her team to lose.
pathetic
2 Jun 2006, 14:19 pm
Ouens, Kiwis won the first world cup in 1987, since then they’ve been the bookies favourite entering every single event and have lost. Perenial underachievers is the label they’ve inherited! Their public want the World Cup above everything else in terms of results, being No.1 in the World means little to nothing – if you seriously believe SA are the 2nd best team in World Rugby, I’d suggest our 4th to 5th position later this year may come as a surprise to you!( I sincerely hope not but I have to take a view that we’ll lose to England and New Zealand away – having not beaten them at home since before 2000 – 7 years ago). Scotland won’t be easy not when we’re yet again putting players on the park out of position and not taking form or injury into account when making selections!
Jake got us out of the Rudi-mentary days of our plan. It’s time that either Jake adapts or moves on. The Ndugane twins selection into the squad would have resolved a number of concerns, allowed Jake to select Schalk Brits and VIsagie if required because he could drop Shimmie and Andrews – 2 perinial underachievers!
Wake up and smelll the reality that no one on the Top 10 is scared of SA, anyone of them can beat us! Until we build and develop a team out of consistant selection, in position, in all 3 of the CC, S14 and Bok teams i.e JDV playing 12 at all 3 levels, Juan Smith 8, Jaco 10, Snyman – 13 (the only position for a player of his calibre). SA will produce good teams but no great ones. Jakes needs to stop giving the press soundbytes that come and haunt him. Be more diplomatic, media savvy, think before he passes comment. Keo’s right that he should have waited until Sunday. If Cobus is the real deal, then we should keep the option open. But I agree with his 2nd point even more – have we just given Pomville another SA Prop – Pat Barnard? With Matt Stevens coming on leap and bounds within the English Setup.
Jake has got the toughest season ahead of him:
World XV, 2 x Scottish, 1 x France – at home
Tri-nations – 3 home and 3 away
England at Twickenham x 2 and another match away.
Hence 12 Tests and a warm up game.
With 6 of the Tests away. 3 against teams we havn’t beaten at home since before 2000, 7 years ago!!!!
If he succeeds, then I will accept his vision and belief have made a mockery of my arm chair selectors position. If he fails, then he will be vilified by the 10′s of thousands of likeminded Armchair selectors around the world. The issue is, if he does fail he’s got 12 months to fix the problem which is 12 months to little, too late!
2 Jun 2006, 14:26 pm
Well, whether Jake said what he said or not, it’s obviously the way he chose his words that people can construde it. Let’s face it, this is not the first time and he is obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it come to PR work.
2 Jun 2006, 14:42 pm
A
2 Jun 2006, 15:04 pm
Visage is a ***. I think Jake might have some insight into this and know that he doesnt want a guy like visage in his squad.
2 Jun 2006, 15:13 pm
Weepee
Bravo and well said I expressed much the same sentiment in an earlier post (#59).It is high time we in SA were a little less reactionary and a lot more pragmatic about where we stand.I do believe that we will slide this year as the fixture list is a tough one.It will not be necessary to fire the coach and dump the players as it will be in keeping with the order of things.We still have every chance to win the RWC next year,as do France,England,Aus and New Zealand.That makes 5 and one “power” team to face heartbreak.Somebody will not make the semi’s and it could just as easily be us as anyone else.
2 Jun 2006, 15:45 pm
Not only is New Zealand finally about to introduce the humble post code (as Wayne noted Cozzie 1, Cozzie 2, Cozzie 3) they have some really intelligent Rugby players…all this and handbag fights as well…
“Nobody in Rugby should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.” – Jono Gibbs – Chiefs
“I’m going to graduate on time, no matter how long it takes.” – Rodney So’ialo – Hurricanes – on University
“You guys line up alphabetically by height.” and “You guys pair up in groups of three, then line up in a circle.” – Colin Cooper – Hurricanes head coach
Chris Masoe (Hurricanes) on whether he had visited the Pyramids during his visit to Egypt: “I can’t really remember the names of the clubs that we went to.”
“He’s a guy who gets up at six o’clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.” – Colin Cooper on Paul Tito
Kevin Senio (Auckland), on Night Rugby vs Day Games “It’s basically the same, just darker.”
David Holwell (Hurricanes) when asked about the upcoming season: “I want to reach for 150 or 200 points this season, whichever comes first.”
“Andy Ellis – the 21 year old, who turned 22 a few weeks ago” (Murray Mexted – ex Wellington player)
“Colin has done a bit of mental arithmetic with a calculator.” (Ma Nonu)
“He scored that try after only 22 seconds – totally against the run of play.” (Murray Mexted)
“I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body.” (Jerry
Collins)
“That kick was absolutely unique, except for the one before it which was identical.” (Tony Brown)
“I owe a lot to my parents, especially my mother and father.” (Tana Umaga)
“Sure there have been injuries and deaths in rugby – but none of them serious.” (Doc Mayhew)
“If history repeats itself, I should think we can expect the same thing again.”(Anton Oliver)
“I would not say he (Rico Gear) is the best left winger in the Super 14, but there are none better.” (Murray Mexted)
Murray Deaker: “Have you ever thought of writing your autobiography?” Tana
Umaga: “On what?”
“Well, either side could win it, or it could be a draw.”(Murray Mexted)
“Strangely, in slow motion replay, the ball seemed to hang in the air for even longer.”(Murray Mexted)
2 Jun 2006, 15:49 pm
Rastafox’s comments on 11 and 139 are appropos.
There’s only one way to decided this and this is on Saturday on the field (Carstens v. Visage) – our current props are the aged and walking wounded – or quota – if Visage is as he was at his best then this is a no-brainer.
John Cowper – Detroit
2 Jun 2006, 15:53 pm
Groot (168)
If you think I got a pounding, mate, that was only the tip of the iceberg and if that is all you got.
Shame – you will find the world too big for you.
If you call that a pounding then I feel sorry for your missus because your ratings are shocking – I can imagine that you after a session with the missus you will say that it was lekker but during the time of your elation she is having tea and biscuits.
2 Jun 2006, 16:00 pm
Groot
I seemed I made more of an impression on you as you seem to not have gotten over it.
You seem quite bittered from the other night and dont quite see the humour.
You posts since then have a taste of reflection from the ordeal,
Anyway this is a rugby chat sight where other bring their views and opinions – other than the failings of the bulls outside the bull ring.
2 Jun 2006, 16:10 pm
(243)
I seemed – it seemed
2 Jun 2006, 18:05 pm
Jondood,
#2
From now on we should call you breindood. Os is a legend and Visagie a druggie. How you can even mention them in the same sentence is beyond understanding…
2 Jun 2006, 18:23 pm
katman
# 53
spot on.
2 Jun 2006, 19:12 pm
The journalist from Beeld got it wrong (as usual). The tabloid (Die Son) is the only Afrikaans paper that gets the gossip right. In today’s Gauteng (northern) edition Gaffie is branded as a “has been”. What can I say: the truth hurts.
3 Jun 2006, 11:16 am
Obviously more **** reporting.
Listened to Jake on this subject on boots.
He said what should have been the right thing, was a large portion of the viewers not so f..ing thick!
He first mentioned and supported his currently selected props, intimating that it would be dificult to drop them, and then said he was not closing the door.
really the standard of reporting, is really almost beyond belief, we need to take it from where it comes.
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