Jake fires up Visagie
2 Jun 2006
Springbok coach Jake White has made another outrageous selection outburst.
And his latest comments could come back to haunt him by the time the match against the World XV is concluded.
Comments by veteran Bok prop Cobus Visagie earlier this week that he would like to challenge for a spot in White’s World Cup squad next year have received the cold shoulder from the Bok coach on the eve of the first match of the international season.
White says he has more than enough front-rowers at his disposal and will only be watching the performance of Deon Carstens – who will be directly opposed to Visagie – at Ellis Park on Saturday. Visagie, he says, does not feature in his immediate or future plans.
He could surely have reserved judgement until after his Springbok XV play the World XV. What happens if Visagie scrums Carstens into the ground? White could again be left with large amounts of egg on his face.
Furthermore, White’s comments will surely add fuel to Visagie’s fire as he will now be extra motivated to prove the Bok coach wrong and give Carstens the working over of his life.
“We’ve got more than enough props in South Africa and we’ve given them a lot of time and attention,” White told Beeld’s Hennie Brandt. “We have Eddie (Andrews), Lawrence (Sephaka), Deon (Carstens), BJ (Botha), CJ (Van der Linde), Os (Du Randt) and Guthro (Steenkamp). We don’t need another prop to join us.”
“There’s no benefit in it for us to exclude one of our players now after all the work and attention we’ve given them. I’m quite anxious to see how Deon performs against Cobus. I’m not going to watch how Cobus plays,” he said in Beeld.
32-year-old Visagie, a veteran of 29 Tests for South Africa before leaving for Britain in 2003 to further his rugby career at Saracens, was always keen to deliver a commanding display back on home soil.
And now he has the perfect reason.
248 Comments
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2 Jun 2006, 09:48 am
2 Jun 2006, 09:50 am
Wether Jake is right or wrong…Carstens must be muttering under his breath about Jake and his mouth….Come Saturday Cobus is gonna be fired up !
2 Jun 2006, 09:51 am
Cobus was never going to play in these immediate tests (World XV, Scotland, France) and if we’re talking about props for the 2007 WC – between Gurthro, CJ, BJ, Os and Lorrie, we have more than Cobus can offer. Add Carstens and Eddie as cover and you start to see where White is coming from.
I do think he was quoted out of context here in the name of sensationalism – “another outrageous selection outburst”? He’s just speaking his mind.
Most SA rugby fans seem to have a built-in outrage reaction device. The Outrageo 2000. Whenever a coach or administrator says something or a journalist writes something, it kicks in and they all feel automatically outraged. Then they quickly try and think of possible reasons for their indigntion. But listen and understand… perhaps even agree and support? Never!
2 Jun 2006, 09:51 am
Carstens is going to send Visagie back to the old age home.
2 Jun 2006, 09:52 am
Nick, I can only but agree, but should the proving ground not be the S14 where the levelis almost that of test rugby
2 Jun 2006, 09:53 am
ExPlaya and Katman: absolutely.
2 Jun 2006, 09:53 am
Then i hope that carstens can stand up and show why jake has put him in the side………who cares about Cobus…the only reason he wants to come back to the boks is because he is in SA now make the papers take it back to England to go and show the mates that is all….now he wants to play for the boks again….why has he never said anything a year ago…a few months before the world cup…come now…
2 Jun 2006, 09:54 am
Katman, I still think Cobus is a better scrummer than CJ who is next in my opinion.
Your tighthead you select FIRST. before you captain and before your kicker.
And Cobus is basically the best we’ve had post isolation (bar Tommie Loubsher)
2 Jun 2006, 09:56 am
Jake has confidence and that is a pre-requisite for the position.Journalists will always try to work an angle and create a reaction,if not they would not have work.Unfortunately for Jake wether plain honest and forthright or not,he does seem to have a major shortcoming when dealing with the media.As with the SA public our media are a fickle bunch and have to be dealt with carefully.It is either foolishness or a willingness to create controversy that seems to lead Jake into these situations.We have seen what he can do with the Boks and all know he is an astute coach,but he has rightly or wrongly earned a reputation as an oaf in dealings with those outside his Bok setup.
The Boks are not yet the mighty machine the All Blacks are and results are not exactly dominant. Yes we are ranked 2 in the world,but if we are honest with ourselves it is a precarious position at present.Our home form has been superb and we have picked up one or two nice wins away under Jake,but can we forget that this very team was demolished in Aus,outplayed in Paris and thumped at Twickenham.They managed to implode against Ireland along the way too.All this in a time where the All Blacks swept all before them.A Grand Slam would have done nicely.
It would be prudent to excercise caution and humility with this seasons fixture list.The Aussies will again have many injured stars available that missed last year.The All Blacks are still the team to beat and France in a one off is always a huge challenge.The two Tests at Twickenham will be the acid test.If the Boks can win one it will be a good result,win both it will be a huge result,if however they are beaten in both we will still be where we have been for a decade.Rampant at home and unable to win the big games abroad.This is why we failed to defend our Tri-nations title last year and is not good enough if we really want to be number 1.
2 Jun 2006, 09:56 am
Then I think that we should search high and low for a tighthead who is also a captain and kicker. Then it doesn’t matter who else plays in the team.
2 Jun 2006, 09:59 am
Carstens should not be muttering he shouldstand up and be counted
2 Jun 2006, 10:01 am
Am I the only one that sees this issue as not simply being a prop, but more a tighthead prop?
A position a team is built around, and a position we do not have a quality guy or one of world class standard?
BJ has entered the scene this year. According to all players that has played at the highest level, you only mature in your late 20′s in this position.
2 Jun 2006, 10:01 am
I hope everyone who is bagging JW on this site is prepared to eat their slice of humble pie when the Boks play like we all know they can!
He has one of the toughest jobs in South Africa, and instead of supporting him based on his successful track record, individuals allow their one-eyed opinions to cloud what the man has done and fire shots at him. Pathetic!
Which one of you who guns for him could do a better job?!?!?! SFA of you IMHO
2 Jun 2006, 10:02 am
Guys, guys, guys – pull up your panties and dry your eyes – Jake White is no moron – he badly wants to win the World Cup just like the rest of us. The difference between Jake and any other poepol coach we’ve had (excl Kitch and Nick), is that Jake has the intellect to achieve that goal.
Who gives a **** who runs out in the Green ‘n Gold – the main thing is that he gets our Bokke to win..!!!
Tekkelllllllllllllllllllll………!!!!!!!
2 Jun 2006, 10:02 am
Well said rastafox (#59)
2 Jun 2006, 10:05 am
Let’s fire Jake and bring back Rudolf, I believe Jake is the best man for the Job, but should use the media as an effective tool not give them ammo, and for the record quotes out of context mean ****
2 Jun 2006, 10:05 am
AND well said B16!
2 Jun 2006, 10:06 am
B16, I will be there tommorrow with the rest, and you are spot on
2 Jun 2006, 10:07 am
Jake was apointed till after the worldcup next year. He can decide for himself what’s good for the team. I also think his got a point by not selecting and outsider at the moment. I am not saying that Visagie is no good , but jake’s been working with a couple of guys and he know’s what he has in these players. No one will ever be happy with something Jake does or say. But i don’t think there’s something wrong with his coaching.
2 Jun 2006, 10:09 am
Could White jsut be firing up Visagie – to see if he still has it in him? Visagie hasn’t played for over a month, he has been on holiday in the US.
2 Jun 2006, 10:13 am
Good point – AndreWP
No coach can ever pick a side that meets with public opinio, because there is no such thing as constant public opinion. I’ve looked at the teams that various readers have put forward on this site, and every one of them is different.
When picking a XV, there are not always obvious choices – how the individuals combine as a team is probably the thing that sits first on the coaches mind – whereas we the readers just choose the 15 individuals that impress us the most.
2 Jun 2006, 10:13 am
Ex-playa – see you there – come to the PWC box for a dop afterwards.
2 Jun 2006, 10:14 am
I think Jake is revving him up to establish the full potential. no one can be that dumb to make a comment like that. there must be a hidden ajenda.
2 Jun 2006, 10:14 am
Visagie has never scrummed any one to pieces, I actually agreee with Jake, he’s backing the guys in his team , what else should he do ??
2 Jun 2006, 10:14 am
I think people have forgotten the circumstances in which Visagie left SA.
Tested positive for Nandrolone, banned for 2 years, took 1 year to fight it and overturn it. Then wasn’t immediately reselected and then sued SARFU for lost earnings (walked away with R3 million if I recall correctly – a lot of money back then!).
How many employers do you know who would be willing to re-employ someone after that individual has sued them and won?!?!?!
BTW – I am based in Ireland and have seen what Cobus has been doing for Saracens . . . he is a machine! CJ may be better one day, but he has a long way to go to be on a par with Cobus!
2 Jun 2006, 10:15 am
Redcard – you say JW is a moron and he has torrets syndrome. What is this torrets syndrome that you say this moron has?
2 Jun 2006, 10:19 am
This article is hugely sensationalistic.
“outrageous” and “outburst” in one short sentence?
Andrew, couldn’t you have seen your way clear to fit “slammed” into the sentence as well?
2 Jun 2006, 10:20 am
Wolverine – interesting what you say. Looks like a lot of us are going to pay a little more attentiont to Cobus’s performance.
2 Jun 2006, 10:20 am
gecko, i hope he’s just firing him up, Visagie is a great prop, but i think Carsten will want to prove something too, could be a big tussle.
2 Jun 2006, 10:20 am
Jake please put a sock in it! (Keo’s words some time ago, not mine.) Why can’t he shut his trap or try to be diplomatic.
“We have very good props in our squad and we have a lot of faith in them…..bla bla bla, having said that, Cobus has played for the Boks and has a lot of experience …..”
I have said it before and will say it again, JW should stop trampling all over players’ dreams and ambitions. He should remember what it felt like when he was overlooked as Springbok coach and he said the same things S Britz said, i.e. do what is best for me …. when he threatened to take over the English u/age teams
2 Jun 2006, 10:21 am
yeah, i think pussycat has a point, andrew is this not a bit OTP, was Jake White really so outspoken?
2 Jun 2006, 10:23 am
B16
another damn auditor on this site…
2 Jun 2006, 10:25 am
Wolverine…
he and Mr Strauli did not see eye to eye and like Fleck he was ne of the players who had to balls to tell him where to get off.
Thats the other side of the coin!
2 Jun 2006, 10:25 am
Nicksteroonie & WLS……*** lickers.
Take your heads out the sheeps *** to get the wool off from over your head…..
2 Jun 2006, 10:26 am
Tsiko, very good point relating to JW’s early comments after been overlooked
2 Jun 2006, 10:27 am
Yes Tsiko, why don’t we just train all our coaches and players in the art of the ambiguous interview? Fuzzy diplomacy, tired clichés and rehashed generalisations. A bit like an Anto Leonard post-match interview.
2 Jun 2006, 10:27 am
Hey Vin – the mother of all assumptions, dude. I’m a guest – not one of them.
2 Jun 2006, 10:27 am
maybe he wants visagie to play with a bit of fire and show his worth aswell as testing carstens
2 Jun 2006, 10:27 am
Pussycat -
How’s this?
Springbok coach Jake White was surely slammed out of his mind as he has made another outrageous selection outburst!!!
2 Jun 2006, 10:28 am
agree 100% with bunce (88)
2 Jun 2006, 10:28 am
Smellthis – let me guess, you are Bulls supporter?
2 Jun 2006, 10:28 am
The point is that Jake must learn to be a little more diplomatic. It just may have served him better to keep his comments till after the game. Somebody is going is going to look stupid. Who is it going to be: Kobus or Jake ?
2 Jun 2006, 10:31 am
PS Cab,
The quotes came from Beeld not my own. I’m merely presenting them here, but like I said White is capable of such rants. And basically its his indaba. Personally I thin he should just keep quiet. But who cares as long as he keeps winning.
He will NEVER make everyone happy. EVER.
2 Jun 2006, 10:34 am
LOL at Andrew (post 89) !!!
2 Jun 2006, 10:37 am
Andrew it aint about making everyone happy here. The agenda is how many tightheads do we have with basically 30 test caps, experience in NH conditions and scrummed against top players from around the world (regular Baa Baa player) in the past three years, who is still in top form?
Its not about making anyone happy but appyling good common sense. I am a JW fan, but think he must be arrogant to think what he thinks sometimes!
2 Jun 2006, 10:42 am
Jake pluk n lat vir sy eie gat.
2 Jun 2006, 10:42 am
Vinnie
You sound like you are in a good mood this morning.
I take it your handbag is in good working order along with all the “province” accessories?
2 Jun 2006, 10:44 am
ja Andrew, oh ok Beeld, say no more, the northerners reckon JW has a conspiracy to undermine them, unless all of the bulls are selected, JW will be catsigated as a soutie with a vendetta.
all i can say is thank goodness, they play the hoff at loftus to relax the locals.
2 Jun 2006, 10:44 am
morning jondood
2 Jun 2006, 10:44 am
Clearly no one watched boots n all. what is this an anti jake white site? Yes maybe he does put his foot in his mouth a lot of the time, but this is time it is being blown out of the water. Can’t you see you are being fed exactly what you want to hear by the media.
You guys are as bad as english football supporters… never happy with the guy in charge. It drives me mad.
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