Jake explores No 8 options
13 Jun 2006
Springbok coach Jake White is considering bringing in Jacques Cronje for Joe van Niekerk at No 8 for the second Test against Scotland.
Van Niekerk has had two opportunities this season – against the World XV and in the first Test against the Scots – and by all accounts has been almost back to his best.
White told Die Volksblad’s Hendrik Cronje he was considering using Cronje in Port Elizabeth, either in the starting XV or as a second half substitute.
The other player in contention for the important No 8 position is Pedrie Wannenburg. According to Die Volksblad, White will also keep an eye on Pierre Spies, who is playing for the Baby Boks at the Junior World Cup in France.
Cronje has not had a chance to play for the Boks this year after appearing in every Bulls Super 14 match, mostly on the flank. Despite this White still wants to give him a run at No 8 for the Boks. “I will consider him,” White told Die Volksblad.
Cronje has not had the same impact as he did last season, but White is a huge fan and will argue he was played out of position which may have affected his overall performance.
“This Test gives me the opportunity to involve a player such as Jacques,” White said. “I plan some changes, but I want to make sure we remain competitive.”
“Our aim in every match is to put down that golden figure 59 that golfers strive for on their scorecard. We want to produce our best in every match, not only in some Test matches.â€
83 Comments
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13 Jun 2006, 09:50 am
capebull
JC used to have a lot of pace, one of the fastest loosies then, now he has gymed himself into this use northern hemisphere type loosie, and has lost his speed and apparently his skill level as well. I think we can thank JW and HM for his evolution…
13 Jun 2006, 10:09 am
I would rather Pedri got the start Cronje looks jaded, prefer Joe overall as he has looked good so far in the two games.
13 Jun 2006, 10:11 am
White: why I won’t pick the Ndungane twins
Stephen Nell
June 13 2006 at 08:58AM
Jake White has been at the helm of Springbok rugby for two years and his team is yet to be beaten in South Africa. But an overall winning ratio of around 69 percent has not meant that he has escaped criticism.
His recent decision to close the door on Cobus Visagie and recall 32-year-old wing Andre Snyman ahead of in-form Super 14 players such as the Ndungane twins and JP Pietersen are two examples.
We gave him chance to respond on Monday and also spoke about his two years in the hot seat.
On closing the door
Visagie has excelled for Saracens, but his claims were dismissed even a day before he led an onslaught of the World XV that obliterated the Springbok scrum at Ellis Park. Why was this done?
White: Cobus was penalised a lot for scrumming illegally against us. We have a number of tighthead props in CJ van der Linde, Lawrence Sephaka, BJ Botha and Eddie Andrews. It’s interesting that nobody raved about how impressive Eddie was against Scotland.I have always said that the guy coming in has to be able to add more value than the incumbent.
I have never said the door is closed on anybody. We actually blooded two new caps (Wynand Olivier and Johann Muller) in the first Test against Scotland. We have to create a culture where big teams have a large number of caps. Paul Delport was considered the next big thing in scrumhalf play a few years ago. Now everybody is raving about Ruan Pienaar.
We have a real what about him mindset. When England dominated you didn’t even have to go to a press conference to hear what team they would pick. If they were forced into a change you had your headline.
Gert Smal (forwards coach): Jake has shown with Percy Montgomery, Andre Snyman and Jaco van der Westhuyzen that he will not hesitate to pick players that perform outside South Africa if he feels they can add value. There is always a possibility.
There have been rumours that there are issues between you and Visagie.
Smal: If there is an issue it must be from his side. It’s important that players don’t look for excuses. I think he will also admit that he’s playing better rugby now than when he was here. I never had an issue with Cobus. Eddie Andrews and Faan Rautenbach started challenging for places. Cobus was not playing well at that stage.
What do you think of Cobus as a player?
Smal: He is a good scrummager. I would like to see him do more than that.
On the Ndungane twins and Pietersen
It was reported that SA Rugby president Oregan Hoskins had told the parliamentary portfolio committee on sport that you regretted that you hadn’t picked one of the Ndungane twins for the training camp. Is that correct?
White: We discussed them, but I would never say one of them because that would suggest they are being picked because they are black and would be a quota. I had enough outside backs when I picked my squad. We agreed that they would be part of the SA Breweries high performance squad. They are both in systems where we know we can monitor them.
There are 30 (black) players in the squad and consultants look at the individual ]aspects of each player. I get a report every month on what the players are up to. No-one complained when Frikkie Welsh was picked ahead of Akona Ndungane for the Bulls. Both Akona and Odwa lack a bit of pace. I am not just talking about holding your own at wing. I am talking about sheer pace. JP Pietersen, Chilliboy Ralepelle and Pierre Spies were all given to under-21 side.
On transformation
Only two black players started against Scotland. What can be done about the transformation problem?
White: It’s not a problem for me at all. I have picked black players in every position except flyhalf. It’s an issue that people above and below me will have to address. No-one can point fingers at the national set-up. We had five black players involved against Scotland and at one stage an all-black front row. Every guy with us is here on his merits. People knocked me about picking Breyton Paulse, yet he has done well.
On the first two years
What’s it been like?
White: It feels like about five years! Results-wise we are further ahead than expected. If you had sat and analysed where we were when we started on 12 June 2004 (against Ireland) no-one would have said that we’d have a 70 percent win ratio and be unbeaten at home. We beat Ireland first up in a home series and they were the Triple Crown winners. We then beat a supposedly weak Welsh team by 50 points at Loftus and they ended up winning the Six Nations the next year.
Over and above the Tri-Nations victories we also won a home Test series over France for the first time since 1975. We beat Australia in Perth – the first time South Africa had beaten a tier one country away from home in 20 Tests. This team has surpassed all expectations.
On the team’s evolution
What is the way forward for you and the team?
White: People have written positively about last weekend, saying we counter-attacked well and that the forward play was better than it has been. If you consider that we didn’t have CJ van der Linde, Bakkies Botha, AJ Venter and Jacques Cronje, it’s a positive sign because there is forward momentum in our game.
13 Jun 2006, 10:12 am
Lol brains_trust@ 4, and that’s on 9 holes.
I wonder if we should’nt bring Schalk of the bench so he’s fresh for the Frogs. I think the Scotts will have a whole new problem on their hands with Bakkies and Habana coming on. So, they work on their scrums all week and Habana runs them ragged around the edges. Heh,Heh.
Well, If Cronje comes on I hope he has a good game.
13 Jun 2006, 10:31 am
Cronje is a fine player, who brings something very different to Joe. Jake has some great no 8 options in Joe, Cronje, Spies and Wannenberg.
Many ppl swallowed their words after seeing Rossouw’s performance last weekend.
13 Jun 2006, 10:35 am
Agree cab – i swallowed mine but won’t commit to it until i see it regulalry !!
In terms of Eights – Pecking order has to be Joe, Pedrie and Cronje…..the latter has had a couple of opportunities and he had a shocking EOYT….
I would also like to see Pierre Spies at 6…serious gas and a good ball carrier…
I would also be tempted to play the same trio – let them build some momentum after a great performance last week.
13 Jun 2006, 10:50 am
Viper 6
Anyone that says Juan and Jacques are useles do not know a thing about rugby
13 Jun 2006, 10:54 am
Jurgens, Agreed, and Wannenburg.
13 Jun 2006, 11:07 am
I wander how long White will be Bok coach? With these results, i hope forever! It would be good for White to remain coach until he feels he has had enuff and then for White to choose the next coach and then to remain in the Bok loop. We have never been this competitive over 3 seasons, post apartheid anyhow!
13 Jun 2006, 11:09 am
Ig, yeah Cronje has been a bit lacklustre lately and Joe has been superb. Thing about Spies is he’s as quick as joe with the size of Cronje, you can see why White is tempted to bring him into the fold.
13 Jun 2006, 11:30 am
It took 2 years for Jake to understand what everyone around was telling that Russow is not a flank he is LOCK. Once he was picked at lock he prodused much better games.
The question is when will Jake realise that Cronie is not an eightman he is blindside flank. Cronje was in his best form when played for Bulls at blindside two previouse seasons. When picked at 8 he doesn’t produce good performances (last year tests, first half of this year’s S14). An 8man should be quicker and more skilfull then Cronje. But at 7 he is perfect – strong ball carier and hard hitter.
13 Jun 2006, 12:15 pm
I agree with you ciccino, cronje would be more effective at 7.
I think a good trio is schalk,juan and joe.
but for backup its not bad to have spies, jacques and pedrie.
Things are definately looking up at the moment,
Jake has more options in all positions now than he did a little while ago.
I’m very relieved to see the return of CJ, being the most powerful scrummer in SA, i think if Jake has to play him with JS and Os, those poor Scots are going to run the 100m backwards in 11 seconds dead.
13 Jun 2006, 12:32 pm
Joe v/Niekerk has been one of SA’s top players. If jake wants to try out Jeaques he must move Joe to the flank. But whatever he does, he cannot leave Joe out of the first XV.
13 Jun 2006, 12:44 pm
blahblahblah……..
Wannenburg,Cronje and Dlulane gave Big Joe,Skalk and Luke the hiding of their lives just a month ago.
People forget too quickly that Joe goes missing in the important games.
He needs to develope a big set of hairy balls to complement is obvious talent and handling skills.
13 Jun 2006, 12:52 pm
STP – that the biggest load of drivel you have ever posted on this site. Please mention the games Joe has disappeared in ?
Not Super 14….Test matches…..
Super 14 – no team has bragging rights…we have never won it and i doubt we will…..
13 Jun 2006, 13:11 pm
Ig
Lets mention the tests he stood out in: Ellispark 2004, …….first 40 against Scotts 2006.
Have you ever asked yourself why Jake wants to change no 8 ?
13 Jun 2006, 13:18 pm
cronje is the biggest culprit of losing the ball in contact
13 Jun 2006, 13:27 pm
errm yes Ig,
is it really the biggest drivvel?
75-14…missing
39-3…missing
43-10…missing
CC final-2002….missing
All Blacks last season, 5 minutes to go, Boks defending….Joe goes missing – Meelueamu scores.
And that’s just off the top of my head. Do some analysis on it…the oke is currently a flattrack bully.
13 Jun 2006, 13:40 pm
In Pretoria against Aussie last year – he played out of position and was the best loosie on the park while Goerge Smith was making Cronje his *****….
Its difficult arguing with you Bulls okes because you think all 15 Boks should be Bulls….try see beyoned Tshwane fellas !
I gather some stats when i have some time and leave them here for you guys….
13 Jun 2006, 13:42 pm
BOB SKINSTAD!!!!!!!!!
He has skill, and Bok Captain experience!!!
Don’t judge the guy on what he looks like, just judge his skill. He is perfect for the job, jake should recruit him because he will be controdicting himself if he doesn’t. He always goes on about Skilled player that can fill other positions and he goes on and on about experience… Well Bob has enough of both!!!!
SKINSTAD FOR 8!!!!!
13 Jun 2006, 13:45 pm
Ig
I disagree St P always sounds more confused than a baby in a titty bar !
St P
For Super 14 games 1-13 and the semi – Jacque Cronje didnt even show up never mind missing but i must admit the 43-10 victory by the bulls over wp was impressive i mean they did it with 14 players, dunno what cronje was doing that day.
13 Jun 2006, 14:55 pm
Redox and Ig it is evident that when you start loosing an argument you start calling people names.
We have not once said that JC should be there Jake did. I explained that P3 is my choice.
If you do not agree that Big Joke has a tendancy to go missing when the game gets tight, then I do not believe we are on the same planet. Get Joke to play for 80 every test then we can talk.
13 Jun 2006, 15:29 pm
Ig
I’m pretty sure Cronje didn’t play against Oz in Pretoria last season?????
R U being mental again?
13 Jun 2006, 15:32 pm
Nah i was there – Cronje played 8 …Joe was at 6, same day Gary Botha got his first Bok cap !
13 Jun 2006, 15:38 pm
Ig
Please give us stats, but if you get a stat like “meters running with the ball” please make sure its meters running forward not sideways , cause then Bolla should win hands down.
13 Jun 2006, 17:39 pm
jake should get Spies after the U/21 and slowly introduce him.
By WC time he should ready.
13 Jun 2006, 19:29 pm
cronje should have suffered the fate of the dinosaurs,cos he is one
13 Jun 2006, 19:37 pm
Stan,Spies is an awesome prospect,yes bring him in asap,i mean Jake has brought in other youngsters who have excelled,just look at Burger for example,Spies is super fast,get him ready
13 Jun 2006, 23:09 pm
P3 has had a few very good seasons in a row now. he gets selected for boks but ends up getting injured and left out of the picture coz of how long rehab takes. he was rookie of year pretty much 2002, was in the bok Wc squad till corne got his panties in a knot, 2004 was in the squad as well and played well, and last year 2005 he pretty much started the movement that helped us beat france and win the series….then he got left out again (possibly injury).
cronje on the otherhand has done nothing to impress. his defence is rat ****, he is too slow, and as everyone above says his techniques etc are substandard. he used to be explosive with ball in hand. he is a meek ***** cat on the field these days!
14 Jun 2006, 04:53 am
Ditto Tomsta
Nobody mentions AJ in the loosies in this blog. Short memories of his sinbinning and not of his awesome S14.
Dont forget about him ,he can play 7,8 and lock,pretty well.Expeience ,versatilty…Jake is just given him a cool off.
14 Jun 2006, 05:44 am
omg viper wtf do u have against juan smith, he is up there with the best, obviously u didnt see the difference he made when he was missing from the cheetahs lineup. viper ur comments in general are very negative, maybe a bit homesick from ur native zimbabwe?
14 Jun 2006, 10:54 am
Hey guys
Jake’s comments about SA fans swallowing everything the press say, and Mallett saying SA fans knows f#$%$#ll about rugby starting to make a lot of sense to me now.
Why should it be that Jake has a problem with Big Joe if he’s looking for some-one else to play against Scotts? The same names on this string are bitching and moaning on other strings about ZA not having as many players up to standard as ABs. How do you grow your capacity? By letting other players get time on the park in less important games…wake up and shove your provincialism! The Bulls are not the begin all and end all of ZA rugby.
15 Jun 2006, 05:02 am
Dont rate Cronje,He has had enough chances.He looses tha ball in contact,cant keep his feet like a big rig should as he immediately falls after hitting first line of defense(watch Bulls games,guilty as charged)and he doesnt have the vision for the number 8 position as he is not a link man.Might have the size but he is no Lauaki,Soia’alo,Tuaili’i etc.Aj is a better bet at 8 and would bring in Watson or Botes ahead of Cronje,they are smaller but more effective.
Not a fan of Wannenburg neither as he tends to shy away from the rough stuff even when neccessary but his S14 form was best of all the S.A 8thmen.his workrate is somewhat dissapointing,he is just only a runner and sometimes not effecrive at that even…
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