Botha: Leave Solly alone
30 Jun 2006
Former Springbok captain Naas Botha has backed under-fire flanker Solly Tyibilika.
Tyibilika will in all likelihood take over from Schalk Burger in the No 6 jersey for the away leg of the Vodacom Tri-Nations.
“That guy never played one bad minute in a Springbok jersey and therefore I’m very surprised not to see him playing for the Sharks and I’m very surprised not to have seen him playing for the Boks,†Botha said on Boots&All.
Tyibilika struggled to make the Wildebeest team in the Vodacom Cup and only appeared as a second half substitute in the final loss to the Valke in Brakpan.
Botha though could not understand how Tyibilika could fall from grace after performing so well in the green and gold.
“Not one bad minute, so why was he not part of it? Nobody knows. At least now he is part of it, but unfortunately – and this shows how we operate in this country – he should play every week (but he doesn’t).â€
Tyibilika was a controversial inclusion in Jake White’s 28-man Springbok touring squad for the Tri-Nations considering he has hardly played any rugby this year.
“But it is important a guy like him plays week in and week out because whatever we say you definitely get sharp by playing more.â€
By Andrew Hollely
139 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 [3] Show All
30 Jun 2006, 15:10 pm
There is so much discussion about Eddie. In the tests this season he has performed well and with difficulty. In those he performed with difficulty (World XV and French) the entire front row struggled. Given that doubt, I would give him the benefit – CJ as reserve.
Wrt Shimange and Sephaka – how do we judge? They never get game time. And that one of the points I made. Surely if tehy are in the mix, they should have played against the World XV and Scots as starters. This would have kept smit and Os fresh too.
30 Jun 2006, 15:12 pm
Aquarius: Exactly. we know we’re not doing well enough and we need to improve. That alone defines the need to increase the number of successful black players.
30 Jun 2006, 15:13 pm
Lots of fishes….
30 Jun 2006, 15:17 pm
Storm,
Why, why play players who have no game time unless it is beacuse they are black?
30 Jun 2006, 15:20 pm
Shark: Why have they not got game time?
We may be going back in a circle here. Remember, I’m arguing that we need to be looking for opportunities to increase the number of black players!
30 Jun 2006, 15:21 pm
In post 97 you say if opportunities arise like Ndunganes and Dlulane then grab them. How does this realte to the likes of Sephaka and Shimi? Why should we grab them if they have not prooved themselves? On your argument should we give some unknown white player a break, even if he has not proved himself…no.
Like I said we should invest and give previously disadvanted players a chance, but not push them through if they don’t have the talent. National team should be selected on geuine form and merit and not on skin colour alone.
30 Jun 2006, 15:23 pm
Storm you are altruistic I must say …
You actually believe that the average white supporter or player is interested in seeing a representative Bok side …
A player of colour will be tagged … potential or not and we will do our best to kill their careers … we will first argue they too small but then we will scream fowl when Luke is left out … we will say they not strong on defence but will persist with Russel, montgomery, de wet barry and our whole lose trio contemplating that they are exceptional talents bar the occassional lapse in concentration that leads to opposition winning… and finally we will claim they need some game time and experience … while we field Spies in Super 14 and relegate Chilli to Vodacom cup to gain experience …
then at 28 we will declare them to old and of no good for the future of SA rugby and we will recall Gaffie and that other 32 year old who played club rugby in England
30 Jun 2006, 15:24 pm
105. maybe we will need to disagree. I think we should be looking for black players and we should invest. But if they do not play at the provincial level and do not proove thgemselves then no they should not make it into the boks.
Let me ask you, would you like to loose your job to an unqualified black person soley beacuse he may one day be beter than you if he does your job for the next 10 years? Or should your job go to the more experienced and qualified person?
30 Jun 2006, 15:25 pm
Well, there are elements of agreement and disagreement there.
I would argue that investing in those players of colour would be giving them the game time to prove themselves.
Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. Go well.
30 Jun 2006, 15:26 pm
Thanks Storm, I have enjoyed it. Cheers
30 Jun 2006, 15:29 pm
Shark – 108 – before I rush off: I’ve been on a leadership team of three and would never have been considered for MD. Did I begrudge my black colleague? No. In fact I supported his promotion. What would the point have been to argue the need for his promotion in light of the South African circumstances? I looked for recognition (and monetary reward for my job well done) and worked with him to build our firm – and find more black talent.
30 Jun 2006, 15:33 pm
Storm,
Very big of you. How did it make you feel though? Did you have the skills to do the job better that he did?
30 Jun 2006, 15:39 pm
112: Generally but he was brilliant at networking – particularly with potential clients with black management.
I didn’t feel bad at all. This is SA and I choose to live here. That is part of SA. That might mean I do the same thing in my new job – find a black partner and work myself out of another job. I don’t have a problem with that.
30 Jun 2006, 15:40 pm
112: And we’re good friends and he has a huge amount of respect for me. He’s trying to recruit me for something at the moment.
30 Jun 2006, 15:52 pm
cold water … I often battle with this concept of doing the job better or merrit … what is the scientific measure for this?
I certainly believe that there is value in having representative leadership and decision making … there is a need to value what others may bring.
I am a person with little formal training … i have years leading teams of individuals and getting the best out of them.
All of sudden I get a young staff member who with no experience has many more papers to prove their worth … that staff member battles with taking my leadership and does not acknowledge beyond book knowledge there are other factors that make more than one person capable of doing a particular job …
30 Jun 2006, 15:57 pm
Agree aquarius, I meant better experience and skills not papers, sorry.
30 Jun 2006, 16:12 pm
so you agree that the present measurement of what is a merrit Rugby player may change if our perspective changes …
if we adopt skill level as a measure of ability … we will have less bulls players in the team … if we value speed to the breakdown point and ability to connect forwards to the backline … players like january and conradie will be seen as better than du preez and pienaar…
if we start thinking that the job of the backline is to score tries and secondly stop them and that size is not important but consistency is… we would never select De wet Barry …EVER!
If we think that getting to the breakdown and cleaning ball and tackling is more important than jumping in the lineout for our looseforwards we wouldn’t select the man mountains that miss to many tackles and don’t carry the ball as far as their size suggests … Solly and Tim’s speed might be more valuable …
If we value hunger and energy above age … if we see Rugby as entertainment and not just a game to be won … we would drop Percy, forget snyman and tell gaffie to try WP Liga and not make them boks … we would choose youthful player who will like Tana Umaga retire from International rugby knowing they can’t give back to the game.
Snyman accepting selection was selfish of him … if he had a rugby mind he would have told Jake to think again … Jaco would go to Japan and make the millions he needs to not and not try and play Fly half at international level …
30 Jun 2006, 16:25 pm
What a bunch of **** aquarius…
If someone offered you a job would you say uumm, no thanks rather pic the next guy who’s better than me. Secondly, WWF is entertainment, rugby is a sport & the point of competing is to win.
If you want rugby to first be entertaining, prepare to lose… alot!
Its not fair to judge gaffie & snyman on their performances in the past few games as all the players where below par even where was “try machine” brian habana?? why not sack him too?
By winning it will be entertaining!
30 Jun 2006, 16:25 pm
What a bunch of **** aquarius…
If someone offered you a job would you say uumm, no thanks rather pic the next guy who’s better than me. Secondly, WWF is entertainment, rugby is a sport & the point of competing is to win.
If you want rugby to first be entertaining, prepare to lose… alot!
Its not fair to judge gaffie & snyman on their performances in the past few games as all the players where below par even where was “try machine” brian habana?? why not sack him too?
Win first then entertain!
30 Jun 2006, 16:26 pm
Oops…
30 Jun 2006, 16:33 pm
well tell that to the French ,Aussies and New Zealand …
they learnt because of rugby league and other sports if it was not entertaining people will watch other sports … means no money … means no players … means no audience … means no sport …
about snyman and Gaffie when have they really proved themselves … at province or club … and of what value will they be to us in a year or two …
Gaffie can’t make a useless Stormers side consistently … and has always flattered to deceive … but because somebody believes he will one day score a try they continue to show hope and faith … imagine you gave a black player the same chances … let’s say we all assume that Solly hasn’t been given a fair try and not moan about his inclusion … lets say we say its not fair to judge him on the little opportunity which has not been bad … would we be talking about this
Or is the real issue race … white players need opportunity and black players are no good to start with …
John ask yourself what is your response to players of colour and white players … if they the same and you don’t buy into the spin you may be surprised that you are a racist.
30 Jun 2006, 23:45 pm
Pick the team on merit and merit only. I disagree with stormsaam’s long credo entirely and precisely because of this. It’s a matter of hard non-racial principle which cannot be diluted. Race-based selection or Non-racial selection. Either-Or. SIMPLE.
NO “affirmative action” selections unless the non-white player in question can not only “do the job” after a fashion but he can do it better than anyone else can. In that case, he’s not an affirmative selection at all, but a proper merit one. I’m in favour of that, wholeheartedly.
It’s how the All Blacks are selected.
30 Jun 2006, 23:57 pm
As for saying “this is South Africa” and that therefore race-based selection ought to be meekly accepted, that’s about the same as telling Jewish shopkeepers in pre-war Berlin to meekly accept the routine smashing in of their shop windows simply because “this is Germany”…
The “right thing to do” is to select teams non-racially on merit and nothing but merit. Don’t try to water down this principle because “this is South Africa”.
1 Jul 2006, 04:10 am
Storm post 97;
I totally disagree, Conje should definitely be kept and should play against the AB’s…I love the way he meekly hands the boy over to big bad boy Dan Carter!
Blue post 99;
NZ does not have a blueprint to develope black players, we don’t even talk about skin colour, except to laugh at ginga lily white Paul Tito somehow being eligible for the Maori All Blacks.
The best players are selected, but then they ALWAYS have been.
Our legends and heros of rugby and war were Maori and pakeha
1 Jul 2006, 07:51 am
Should be “hands the BALL over” a la Bulls vs Crusaders
1 Jul 2006, 07:55 am
Hey, not even that Tough Taranaki Tiger, the old “Fish” (Orange Roughy) Tito!
What about the Shorks crackerjack Maori flyhalf gamebreaker, Tony Brown of chilly Otago?
Ngati Farty?
1 Jul 2006, 08:00 am
nah, Ngati pakeha!
1 Jul 2006, 08:05 am
Hey Tackler
Looking forward to 3N and SA getting a hiding?
thought up some good abusive one liners yet?
Cos you know everyone will be expecting you to, so they can vent their disappointment and frustration about supporting a hopeless team out on someone
1 Jul 2006, 09:02 am
Na ss just waiting for the next world cup so Ruben can freeze once again he ha.
1 Jul 2006, 09:08 am
Reuben will be the least of your worries next year mate!
1 Jul 2006, 09:33 am
Is it not amazing how the boks can still beat the mighty All Blacks with all their quota players .
1 Jul 2006, 09:59 am
Yip the mighty All Blacks who spanked the British Lions 3 zip and then got spanked by quota players and lost the Tri nations in the same year. Be scared very scared. Only time that New Zealand will win the world cup is 2011. 24years later at home nog al.
1 Jul 2006, 10:26 am
I’ve just gone back and had a look rumage through that big stack of trophy’s in the cupboard and there gathering dust is the Tri Nations Trophy
I don’t get all this talk of quotas really,
I do think to be fair there should be a quota of trophys that countries other than NZ should have…maybe we should start giving some away once we get the big one next year
1 Jul 2006, 10:33 am
Those one off test’s where you fly from there to here and back and play a few games of rugger, the Tri nations what a joke. Bring back the tours then it will be game on. Quota players and all.
1 Jul 2006, 11:46 am
“Bring back the tours”?
The AB’s won a full four-test end-of-season “Grand Slam” tour 4-0 away from home seven months ago. And the won 3-0 in a three-test series four months before that against the British Lions.
That’s about as good as it gets these days. The days when the AB’s dirt-trackers played Wednesday games against Boland or Griquas went out before PacMan videogames, dude!
The last Bok win versus NZ was way back in the last century in 1998 — seven hidings in a row on NZ soil since then. Plus a severe hammering or two dished out on SA soil in between — like the “fifty pointer” at Loftus, 2003!
1 Jul 2006, 13:21 pm
To get back to why **** Muir didn`t give Solly enough game time, I feel it`s fairly simple. The sharks already have Warren Britz who`s been playing the best rugby of his life and you can`t start 2 lightweight flankers to do the same job. You sacrifice too much weight in the scrum.
2 Jul 2006, 03:06 am
“Weight” only means anything useful when it’s coupled with muscle and skill and forward momentum.
“Weight” is a handicap when it is coupled with flab and slowness and fade-in-the-final-20.
3 Jul 2006, 08:55 am
what the hell is merit? Define a merit selection in Rugby? what is the scientific and imperical indicators of merit selection in Rugby?
Or is it really just all subjective? all in the eye of the beholder … and if the beholder is a white racist or just slightly prejudiced … will anyone of colour ever really be a merit selection?
3 Jul 2006, 18:08 pm
Original Pierre u hit the nail on the head Warren should be in the bok side and if Jake really wants to sort out the back line call on Halstead ,Snyman has really not done anything since he was at the sharks last time
Pages: « 1 2 [3] Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.