Absa Currie Cup fans a no-show
30 Jun 2006
The not-so prestigious premier league of South African rugby saw poor turnouts in it’s opening week, and this weekend is set to see much of the same.
Rob Wagner, MD of WP Rugby has indicated that the poor attendance figures could be attributed to the poor performances of the Springboks, as well as the fact that none of those players will play Currie Cup rugby in 2006.
“I think that we underestimate the impact that the performance of the national team has on the psyche of the nation. And the three tests thus far haven’t set the nation alight with regards to the performances. Maybe that’s a reason,” the WP Rugby boss told Rugby365 editor Jan de Koning.
The figures really do put this sad story into perspective. The Sharks opening match against the Lions was the only encounter to draw over 10 000 spectators, with 15 180 paying customers attending the game.
In second place was the Vodacom Blue Bulls and Valke match which only attracted 7 492 of the usually impressive Loftus Versveld turnout. In Bloemfontein, 2 000 fans gathered to watch the central derby between the Vodacom Cheetahs and Griquas, whilst the numbers were even worse in Witbank with 2 000 being the official count for the Pumas and Province clash.
The old coastal rivalry is to be resumed tomorrow at Newlands, but Wagner fears that it may no be the big occasion it once was. The unions are said to be planning on budget cuts, as the takings at the gates are no longer sufficient.
“At this point in time, for a typical Currie Cup game, it is not good,” Wagner said. “We haven’t improved on years gone by, despite the fact that we’re in a so-called strength-versus-strength competition,” Wagner said.
“Again one has to ask, is the absence of leading players not the only reason why we have these poor attendance figures?
“”It will be interesting to see how the [rest of the] Currie Cup pans out, particularly from an attendance point of few. It had been a shock, and we’ll see what the crowd attendance is like here [at Newlands] on Saturday.”
By Jon Cardinelli
151 Comments
30 Jun 2006, 12:18 pm
BULLSHIT! It because the stormers and cats were kak in the S14.
30 Jun 2006, 12:21 pm
Correct – that and the fact that there are some critical WCS games happening. Oh and the fact that WP struggles against the minnows also probably doessn’t help
30 Jun 2006, 12:24 pm
By Jove there is not enough playing talent to sustain a domestic competition in SA.
Perhaps one day the boks will become like Australia and indeed France’s football teams. Where all players ply their trades overseas but come back to represent SA in internationals.
Although the difference with football will be that any players that show real talent or potential are likely to be snapped up by the countries they are playing in. After all your typical Saffa would think nothing of selling their birthright.
The remainder or the dross as I would refer to them as can play for the Boks.
30 Jun 2006, 12:27 pm
A winning team playing attractive rugby will always fill the seats …
School boy rugby is attracting larger crowds for their games than a top CC clash …
The Grey PE vs Grey Bloem match in 2004 attracted 12 000 in PE , that was more than EP had the entire season at their stadium …
30 Jun 2006, 12:28 pm
but that was EP , so bad example … sorry …
30 Jun 2006, 12:33 pm
Yawn St M…
Did you see that Enland is still not one of the best teams in the world? Were are they? 6th or 7th?
30 Jun 2006, 12:34 pm
Still, it has to be one of the hardest domestic compeitions in world rugby. For example, the gauteng lions would cremate a teams of pretenders like the leicester tigers.
30 Jun 2006, 12:37 pm
Good one cab – haven’t chuckled like that in ages.
30 Jun 2006, 12:41 pm
geeze send this jc back to varsity or tech or school and pay andrew and simon double… you guys are waisting ur money on this oke… i can string a bunch of quotes together, slap a few words in between and call it an article…
come on keo, ur bloggers deserve more than this…
just like jaco, let us not be the testing ground for this ****…
30 Jun 2006, 12:43 pm
What do you expect!
30 Jun 2006, 12:44 pm
big g, what did you say about Jaco and Sucking?
30 Jun 2006, 12:44 pm
Big g ease up.
He’s new and is doing a good job.
30 Jun 2006, 12:44 pm
if you can string a bunch of quotes together, slap a few words inbetween and call it an article…
enlighten me, big g, what else would you add to this piece…
30 Jun 2006, 12:45 pm
Do they still start with and u/13 game at 11am, then u/19 games, then u/21 etc. or is it just the main game nowadays?
30 Jun 2006, 12:46 pm
Cape Town has the same debates about why we don’t support our PSL football clubs. More people wear Man Utd and Liverpool (old fogies like me are Spurs) replica jerseys than Santos or Ajax ones. Yet amateur football often gets good crowds at some of their games.
Answer is simple. The professional teams play kak, uninteresting or unentertaining football. When it’s our family or friends playing, we’re at least showing some passion by supporting them. even when the whole team or game is not so wonderful. Guys would rather go and watch Tygerberg, Collegians, Brackenfell, Villagers, etc., or watch DSTV/MNet, than trek to Newlands.
So rugby and WP/Stormers are travelling the same road that Santos/Hellenic/Ajax have been on – if you don’t entertain or win, we won’t pay to waste our time watching you. Same with the Springboks/Bafana Bafana/Banyana/Amagluglug/Amajita, etc.
30 Jun 2006, 12:47 pm
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
30 Jun 2006, 12:47 pm
Think its the main games…..gecko. They even stopped the uber lighties playing at half time.
30 Jun 2006, 12:49 pm
maybe a bit of ur own words and thoughts about why jc… just a thought, otherwise it could be a classified for all i care…
he he redcard…. sorry i apologise, i didnt start out right… i should have started with my usual:
jaco suck jaco suck jaco suck
jaco suck jaco suck jaco suck
jaco suck jaco suck jaco suck
there we go, now i feel better to….
30 Jun 2006, 12:50 pm
JC , on another note …
whats the news on Selborne Boom , is he signed up with Province for the year ?
30 Jun 2006, 12:51 pm
fact is anyone watches winners
right now weepee losers lol so no crowds
sharks winners lotsa crowds lol
30 Jun 2006, 12:51 pm
lol big g hiyas bro
30 Jun 2006, 12:52 pm
Whatever Wagner says – the opposite is true. Wagner is a wanker and he has no clue!
30 Jun 2006, 12:54 pm
selbourne boome has signed for the bulls
he took the road north lol
30 Jun 2006, 12:54 pm
That’s a good comment from Henri-F
30 Jun 2006, 12:57 pm
My suspicion is that within 5 years, just like Henri F describes as it is in football, Saffas will end up supporting English club rugby teams rather than their own provinces. So rather than root for the Cats locals will be hurah’ing for the Leicester Tigers. WHo will of course include maybe 1 or 2 saffas that the locals can identify with.
30 Jun 2006, 12:59 pm
JC please rise above such penicious and perfidious comments.
You are doing a splendid job in trying circumstances.
30 Jun 2006, 13:00 pm
StMick – nope, I’ve lived here in UK for 10 years, and still support any French/Irish or whatever team playing against an English club team (in HC).
However, you do have a point, but the SA’s here support lower, local league team – like Henri-F implies with soccer. London SA, or Richmond in it’s current form, which is full of SA’s, are well supported – so in fact are the Cornish Pirates as there is a but SA bunch in Exeter.
30 Jun 2006, 13:02 pm
As a laaitie, I enjoyed the curtain raisers when WP or SA played a touring team. We would get to Newlands about 09h00, and my older cousins and father would play klawerjas till the first schools curtainraiser at 10h30/11h00. Then it was an U19, and a provincial game, before the main game. When it rained, the field was a mudbath by 15h30.
30 Jun 2006, 13:04 pm
I am very concerned with the amount of analogies being made to the roundball game. In fact, i stop reading as soon as I see it mentioned.
Lets be clear. We dont want whingeing coaches, pampered arrogrant players, fans that are scum and a sport devoid of physical contact. Some may argue that we have that already in certain areas of our country. It is for precisely these reasons and influences that our rugby players are becoming such prima donnas.
It is not a proper sport.
30 Jun 2006, 13:05 pm
Henri – yip, that’s the Newlands I remember
30 Jun 2006, 13:05 pm
JC, get a chill pill.
The article raises important questions.
30 Jun 2006, 13:06 pm
Henri – right on ! Thats how it should be today still. It was a day of rugby not 30 over paid players for 80 minutes !
30 Jun 2006, 13:06 pm
ha ha, he just quickly had to go look up what ur ‘big’ words meant st.m #26
each for his own, these trying circumstances bwaha ha ha… i just really dont think he is ready for this environment yet, maybe give it a bit more time, just like chillieboy…
anyho, that my opinion and the difference i see in the quality of different articles, but you welcome to disagree…
off the subject… anyone going to the July?!! its gonna be awesome, the fashion is to die for and durbs is already buzzing…
30 Jun 2006, 13:15 pm
I’m waiting for Cardinelli to present himself for inspection to the head of the approvals committee.
Namely … me.
30 Jun 2006, 13:17 pm
I am working on a petition, which has 2 main aims:
1. To demand the IRB removes England’s name from the Web Ellis tophy for bringing the game into disrepute.
2. To ask George W to use US military power for good and send a B52 flyby over FIFA headquarters to destroy any trace of the roundball game.
30 Jun 2006, 13:18 pm
where do i sign….
30 Jun 2006, 13:18 pm
Happy to support point one…..can we delay the second till after 2010 – i got a little business hinging on that one !
30 Jun 2006, 13:28 pm
loftus will be heaving with fans for the big games, never u mind. when i say big games, i mean semi and final. we might even pitch up to see the blou masjien stoomroller the piesangs, mielieboere, the-team-formerly-known-as-queen and the lightweights from the wrong side of the jukskei. bring die koppie huis toe!!!
30 Jun 2006, 13:29 pm
Cab,
I’ll back you on one altho my reasons for removing England from the WE are different.
Sport is sport. You can hardly besmirch the the shananigans in football when SA has more than any pther country contributed to the very worst side of rugby:
- Corrupt referees
- Onfield premediated violence (inclduing murder)
- Player vanity
- Self-serving adminisitrators.
SA rugby is more guilty of misdemeanours than all of football added together.
30 Jun 2006, 13:33 pm
Has anyone watched the boks recently …dead boring … and our provincial teams are worse than that … why waste money when you can watch quality rugby in the six nations or New Zealand … teams who want to play rugby … not just spoil their way to win …
My local club is more entertaining than CC matches with SA teams
30 Jun 2006, 13:33 pm
its still early in the season. the boks are in their big internationals. when the 3N is finished and as the CC nears the final, the stands will be packed once more
30 Jun 2006, 13:34 pm
newlands is going to be so packed when they host the cc final
30 Jun 2006, 13:35 pm
Yea and England has Matt Dawson, and Andy Robinson – i am satisfied we still doing better.
Besides come the end of the weekend when your roundball 11 fails to make it through to the next round we will get to see the seedy side of the Brits as they rage around Europe and shoot each other through the press.
Aquaruis – see Henri’s comment – similar vein. i agree
30 Jun 2006, 13:36 pm
st mich
sometimes i really wish hitler had a bit more time, before he decided to battle the russians as well and the US rescued you guys…
30 Jun 2006, 13:38 pm
Ig,
Me thinks its rather premature for your soothsayer bit. England are 3 victories from sporting immortality:
Reigning across:
Football World Cup
Rugby World Cup
The Ashes
World Snooker and Darts
“What we achieve in our lifetimes echoes through eternity”
30 Jun 2006, 13:39 pm
big g – very sensible
Ig – no, i’m afraid urgent measures are required.
StM, yes it is precisely because of the sinister influence of the roudball game.
life before the roundball game entailed hard-drinking honest larrikins that were not adverse to a bit of argy bargey but always within the spirit of the game. A good klap was rewarded with a beer afterwards, and a favourable refereeing decision was accepted as home ground advantage. After all, it gave the spectators something to argue over. Take the world cup final for example, the aussies would surely have rewarded our man with a few cold ones.
I will put your support down for both 1 and 2.
30 Jun 2006, 13:44 pm
dream on scrawl
30 Jun 2006, 13:45 pm
Cab
…which is exactly why England, and Australia in 99 should have their name removed from the Webb Ellis.
It is inappropriate to compare the achievement of winning the WC in the professional era than the competition in the amateur times. I understand winning in the amatuer era carried the titled ‘favoured team’. The winners were not allowed to refer to themselves as World Champions. And exactly right to.
The Webb Ellis should have been melted down in 95 and a new more majestic trophy crafted in its place to signal the dawn of a new game.
30 Jun 2006, 13:46 pm
StMick – you forgot teenage pregnancies
30 Jun 2006, 13:46 pm
O vok he said my name.
30 Jun 2006, 13:48 pm
Fair enough cab – guess the farm in the kei will be about relaxation and not profit.
STM – highly unlikely those under achievers could string more than 10 passes together – for all the talent they just **** – reminds me of the Stormers
Futher more anyone who lists Darts as national spoting achievment really needs there head checked.
When can i expect a full itinerary for our end of year tour to mud island ?
30 Jun 2006, 13:51 pm
Portugal! Portugal!
30 Jun 2006, 13:51 pm
Eish Mr Wagner
The impact that you lot have on the Boks is more the point. You guys in the PC 14 call the shots so stop trying to tap dance your way out of it idiot!
Stop the BS and explain why you have black Boks you never play.
30 Jun 2006, 13:53 pm
Wat ook al sy naam is praat n klomp k@#$%^&*…Die mense kom nie Nuweland toe nie omdat die Stormers en Wp swak presteer die afgelope 2 seisoen en NIEMAND by die unie doen enigiets om dit beter te maak nie.EN as julle dit nieverstaan nie sal ek dit weer uitspel…Ons sal sien hoe lank gaan die idiote wat die tipe snert aan ons probeer verkoop nog daar wees as die geldjies begin uitloop?
30 Jun 2006, 13:56 pm
Hey Jonny –
VIVA PORTUGAL!!!!!
*england to be outplayed by far…
Can you say…’BIG HEADS!’
30 Jun 2006, 14:03 pm
StM,
what is the latest on the RFU vs. english clubs?
has the RFU sorted something out or is the oldest rugby union in the world still struggling to come to terms with true professionalism?
30 Jun 2006, 14:06 pm
St Micky – the master of trivial pursuits
Do you also keep score of your drunken hooligans arrest record on the continent?
Can you remember for how long mud island was banned from european soccer and why?
Is your idea of fair play the dreaded Graham Pohl referee of a life time?
Sometimes Micky I think that if brains were gunpowder you’ve not enough to blowdry your hair!
30 Jun 2006, 14:07 pm
Ah Micky. Sorry – you’re bald aren’t you. Never mind substitute eye brows for hair then
30 Jun 2006, 14:12 pm
StM, Just a fricken pity the Ashes are only competed by 2 teams.
I think the Aussies can lay the claim of great all round sporting abilities not the silly buggers who call that shithole of an mud island home.
30 Jun 2006, 14:20 pm
Redcard it is typical of a Saffa to pray at the altar of Australian sporting acheivement. But a sharp does of reality would suggest that right now the Aussies are only good at swimming.
In rugby league they lost the 3N to NZ
In soccer they fell short at the last 16
In rugby union they came last in the 3rd in the annual 2 horse race of the 3N
In cricket they meekly surrendered the Ashes to a youthful England team.
But they do hae their swimming. Which is probably one sport more than a certain other nation I know!
Ig,
As a WP fan I consider them to be over-achievers. Which players in their squad would an English team covet? Perhaps a fit Burger. But that’s it
30 Jun 2006, 14:23 pm
PA,
The fight between RFU and the English clubs creates a healthy tension. England needs a healthy club scene and a strong national team. The national team in pre-eminant as the World Champs. It is the turn of the club scene to gain momentum.
30 Jun 2006, 14:26 pm
healthy tension?
the media calls it a ***** fight.
everyone to their own i guess.
30 Jun 2006, 14:26 pm
St Michelle,
what a over-ripe load of horse tripe. i have to give it to, you are amusing.
30 Jun 2006, 14:28 pm
and while we’re at it, the validity of the Ashes needs to be questioned as a series.
The english seem to have elevated it to the american notion of baseball’s “world series”, when in effect it is contest by two teams, 1 of which is a perenial lightweight.
Indeed, Sri Lanka, another cricket lightweight, recently crushed these pretenders with a white-wash of note, an obliteration of most satisfying proportions.
30 Jun 2006, 14:30 pm
You have to keep in mind that there is a shedload of international sport on at the moment, the World Cup is on, all the big countries are playing tests, SA played France at home.
the CC never takes off with a bang, but rather builds momentum through the season.
30 Jun 2006, 14:31 pm
Cab,
and its telling that the best two players in the lilly livered pom side are saffas.
30 Jun 2006, 14:32 pm
As a WP fan I consider them to be over-achievers. Which players in their squad would an English team covet? Perhaps a fit Burger. But that’s it……
Bit of a change of heart there STM – if we were to browse back through the archives – we find you selling Burger as a bit of a plonker …..
30 Jun 2006, 14:33 pm
the english need to stand their ground, they have become america’s poodle.
we may not be as powerful as the US just yet, but we are defiant in retaining our culture and originality. the english and australians can learn from us in this respect and not bow down to american dominance. show some spine for goodness sake.
30 Jun 2006, 14:33 pm
ig,
the english have very negotiable personal standards.
always have.
30 Jun 2006, 14:35 pm
I am aware of that BB – thought prehaps this fellow had a spine.
Still awaiting my itinerary STM……
30 Jun 2006, 14:36 pm
they all have spines, although from the way they slouch you can hardly tell.
its balls and heart they lack.
30 Jun 2006, 14:36 pm
bluebarb,
indeed, England are in an embaressing situation, their only chance of achieving sporting success is by foregoing their own for south african talent.
30 Jun 2006, 14:37 pm
Yeah cab, it’s not as if the English overplay their sporting “achievements” is it!!? ******, we’re still getting 1966 rammed down our throats here in the media – if England actually somehow manage to win the WC this year they will still be crowing about it when I am pushing up daisies!! I needn’t worry though, Portugal (the first real team they’ve played thus far) will show them up for what they really are tomorrow.
30 Jun 2006, 14:37 pm
Ig,
I dont rate Burger as a player but he’s undeniably an excellent athelete. With the right coaching he might do OK (its the lack of brains that you cant teach that worries me). And I was referring to an English club team of course not the national side. Perhaps after a couple of years at a side like Bristol or Wrocester it might make him ready for the step up to Test level.
30 Jun 2006, 14:39 pm
the names on the webb ellis and ashes trophies will need to be corrected, to what i am not sure, perhaps:
Combined England/SA B.
30 Jun 2006, 14:40 pm
Yeah the 2004 world player of the year needs to be shown how to step up to the next level by the English!
30 Jun 2006, 14:40 pm
jonny,
im not so sure. they beat the mighty Trinidad. and they beat Tobago on the same day!
30 Jun 2006, 14:41 pm
Hahah Never say die old chap…..i never bought a word you said without taking a kilo of salt.
30 Jun 2006, 14:41 pm
jonny,
it is difficult for us to understand such a strong sense of nostalgia, since we’re used to sporting teams that bring back the bacon so frequently.
30 Jun 2006, 14:42 pm
And on that Note, I was quite surprised to see that France was the only African team left at the World Cup..
and why do they call it a cup if its a statue?
30 Jun 2006, 14:45 pm
i cannot watch the roundball tournament, it affects my constitution.
the mere sight of a group of poms acting out their patriotism and hugging and kissing one another, makes me retch uncontrollably.
30 Jun 2006, 14:45 pm
No question that if it wasn’t for Pietersen (and Flintoff) the English cricket team would be average at best. Ask yourself how many times Australia have failed to beat Sri Lanka in a test series at home?
Not that I think the current Protea team is up to much, but at least we know it’s just a temporary dip not an absolute trend!
Back to the topic, if I were in CT I’d be going to Newlands this Saturday – I’d probably have a season ticket in the Railway Stand in fact. The CC is only beginning, wait for it to warm up before questioning whether the old magic is going!
30 Jun 2006, 14:46 pm
Let us quickly evaluate the current english cricket team…
Kevin Pietersen… South African
Andrew Strauss… born south african
Geraint Jones… born in papau new guinea… grew up in australia and qualified to play for england through a welsh grandfather….
Thats 3 out of 11 off the top of my head.
30 Jun 2006, 14:50 pm
its coming home…its coming home…roundball’s coming home.
what is this rubbish? its meant to be a carnival-type tune, they don’t have a carnival bone in their bodies.
surely something by that misanthrope Morrisey would be more relevant?
30 Jun 2006, 14:51 pm
Yeah
Panic on the streets of London… panic on the streets of Birmingham.. etc etc
30 Jun 2006, 14:51 pm
Vindaloo,
Vindaloo,
Vindaloo, Vindaloo, Ay Yay!
Vindaloo,
Vindaloo,
Vindaloo, Vindaloo, Ay Yay!
I’ve developed a deep distrust in asda this world cup after running that stupid supporters song day and night.
30 Jun 2006, 14:51 pm
lol
30 Jun 2006, 14:53 pm
cab,
we have an italian technician working in our building and i walked past him towards the boardroom the other day. One of the accountants came out of their office suddenly and I swerved to avoid walking into him, brushing up against the italian by accident. With this he shrieked in agony and dived through the air clutching his knee, rolling around cursing and flailing.
it may be a genetic thing.
30 Jun 2006, 14:54 pm
Or they could just be little tosspots with too much oestrogen pumping through them…
30 Jun 2006, 15:01 pm
Did Ig just censor a comment?
30 Jun 2006, 15:08 pm
Nah – just removed a double.
30 Jun 2006, 15:09 pm
LMAO jonny
30 Jun 2006, 15:09 pm
Vinnie – so Uk Muppit evening – we probably not going to do anything to organised – IE charge you buggers for the evening as we did back in Cape Town……..
So you got a decent venue to hook up so we can drink a few pots and talk **** ?
30 Jun 2006, 15:12 pm
Rob Wagner, MD of WP Rugby:
“the poor attendance figures could be attributed to the poor performances of the Springboks, as well as the fact that none of those players will play Currie Cup rugby in 2006.”
Maybe it is because the stormers finished 11th [4/13] in the super 14 and WP have not even PLAYED IN A FINAL SINCE 2001.
For the wealthiest union in South Africa, that is pretty dismal.
30 Jun 2006, 15:12 pm
Lol. Oh ja. That was my double! Dunno how it happened!
Dude – we got plenty spots here! From real dutchie corners to really sheek bars.
Gonna be good fun. I’ll round up some of the boys for a few ngihts on the cans. Sure cab will also tag along.
Whereabouts you gonna be staying?
You guys got your tickets yet?
30 Jun 2006, 15:13 pm
Ig,
StM has invited us to his gaff, i have already invested in some gloves so as not to leave fingerprints on any valuable that might go missing.
30 Jun 2006, 15:13 pm
sean123… you’re pretty dismal if thats all you have to say mate.
Go grow your moustache or something.
30 Jun 2006, 15:16 pm
Vinnie, such venom?
If the kids are all hooking up in London, it’ll be great… but if StMichel is there, then sign me up… I need to meet the man who has provided me with more solid laughs this year than Mark Lamarr, Billy Connolly and Paul Merton put together.
30 Jun 2006, 15:18 pm
Vettie,
He’s always a bit coy when the subject of hooking up comes around.
As soon as the announcement is made of when the boys are coming over SM will disappear for a few months and then resurface when they return to SA.
You around for a bevvy or 5 with the boys in november?
30 Jun 2006, 15:19 pm
100! Still playing thsi game I see Vinnie
Get in the bag you dirty little ****.
30 Jun 2006, 15:19 pm
Rob Wagner,
what a monumental cockchops.
30 Jun 2006, 15:21 pm
Does a duck with one leg swim in circles?
Maybe if we offered StM a guest speaker role… perhaps half-time analysis, then we can convince him?
30 Jun 2006, 15:22 pm
This just shows the short sightedness (if there is such a word) of the unions in SA. They moan about the lack of specatators but do nothing about it. Say Kings Park has a capacity of 50 000 and they sell 15 000 tickets at R70 bringing in just over R1m rand R1 050 000 to be exact. Why not drop the ticket price to say R45 and attract a load more spectators even if you then have 25 000 people in attendance you make R1 000 000 but will sell more beer, more food, more merchandise and have a better atmosphere at the games. Come on this is simple economics that even the dumbasses that run half the unions can understand.
30 Jun 2006, 15:24 pm
vetkoek, i will not be in attendance if StM is allowed to speak. in fact, i have bought a muzzle so that the evening progresses smoothly.
30 Jun 2006, 15:25 pm
motomouse,
That is unfortuantely south african mentality at work mate.
I used to have a boss that shat me out for arriving at work 10 minutes late even though I used to work an extra hour in the evenings every day.
So then I got up a wee bit earlier and left not a minute after closing time. Stupid woman.
30 Jun 2006, 15:30 pm
lol Cab. Harsh, but fair my man.
30 Jun 2006, 15:32 pm
Motomouse, you’re giving far too much credit there my man. To the clowns that run these unions, big number on their little tickets equate to big numbers in their little minds.
It’s like asking a clubbed seal to grasp the theory of relativity.
30 Jun 2006, 15:36 pm
Nothing like an anti Mud Island/ StM thread as a cue to return after a bit of an absence…
Cab, I worry about you. Its realy time you got off that Godforsaken Island and came home. Just remember that we still owe good old StM a Springbok tatoo on his sphincter… his aclaimed “get together” seems a perfect opportunity.
30 Jun 2006, 15:42 pm
clubbed seals.
sounds like the sharks team.
30 Jun 2006, 15:47 pm
Hey Bod, howzit going? long time, whats been happening?
Am off the island in 2 months.
the ink is ready, now the boks just need to perform.
30 Jun 2006, 15:50 pm
Press Pass Vinnie. I get tighter details from you sonner to the time and we will announce here – so we can get a bunch together. cab – might just invest in a pair too.
30 Jun 2006, 15:51 pm
When a venue has been arranged you should post it. it would be good to get6 all the UK Keo bloggers together for some beer.
30 Jun 2006, 15:53 pm
I dont know I just cant understand. It would be interesting to see a comparison between ticket prices in SA, Aus and NZ and also to find out how much other items cost in these countries, for instance how much does a loaf of bread cost and maybe a can of beer that would give us a good idea of how much value the SA supporters get.
30 Jun 2006, 15:54 pm
IG, lucky you I am still waiting for Springbok supportes club to organise me some tickets.
Big G, you still there? I could do with some sucking?
30 Jun 2006, 15:55 pm
Motomouse, I think in economics it is called the Big Mac effect, i.e. how much does a big mac cost in each country.
30 Jun 2006, 15:55 pm
Coldwatershark,
You’re going to want to be very careful about how you say the sort of thing you said in 114.
30 Jun 2006, 15:57 pm
We had a muppit eve few years ago at Shoeless Joe’s in Temple (or was it renamed the Walkabout by then?) With Nick Mallet – man that guy has class.
30 Jun 2006, 15:58 pm
Who wants to go to Ellis Park when you can stay at home and have your car stolen, get mugged and shot just as easily.
30 Jun 2006, 15:59 pm
thanks koek, will do. It is just she always says Jaco sucks, Jaco sucks. i suppose it sounds wrong taken out of context?
30 Jun 2006, 16:01 pm
gecko, yes i went to that, but it was with white and toks as well, just before we got a hiding.
30 Jun 2006, 16:02 pm
Thats true, but at least by Ellis Park you are close to some hookers, at least you dont have to go home completely depressed after having your car stolen.
30 Jun 2006, 16:03 pm
there was some oke chirping nick mallett behind me and was dropping the most terrrible vleis&brandewyn farts.
30 Jun 2006, 16:06 pm
During the Super 14, the Lions board were offering the Cats supporters R350 each to go watch the games.
30 Jun 2006, 16:06 pm
Cab
Ja.. recently back in CT after a year in the UAE.. and loving it.
Unfortunately the Boks will never perform whilst we dont have a decent centre pairing and Jean De Villiers isnt moved back to the wing where he is most effective as an attacking force… anyhow thats another debate.
Just to wet your appetite… its Friday pm, 20Deg, sun shining, not a breath of wind and my beloved LaMed is calling..
30 Jun 2006, 16:09 pm
Bod,
hope you were’nt involved in any jihad when out there…yoh, u must get big danger pay in those parts.
yeah Cape Town sounds very nice…got the lot, but you okes smoke too much wackyweed.
bugger, i’d normally be very jealous, but it is a decent day over here (guess the difference is your winter and our summer).
30 Jun 2006, 16:09 pm
Bod,
28Deg and sunny here…. No wind…. and sadly no La Med.
30 Jun 2006, 16:10 pm
cab – yip, with Toks signing – but I recall White didn’t pitch.
30 Jun 2006, 16:12 pm
no, must have been a different occasion, cos white pitched, made a speech, left early, then toks sung and nick and keo stayed around afterwards for a drink and discussion with 101 budding armchair experts.
30 Jun 2006, 16:12 pm
StMichel surely you are having a laugh?
The Guinnes Premiership average crowds for the 05/06 season were just above 10k and this is a new record….
If any foreign league is to be admired it is the French Top 14 79,000 for a club game between Toulouse and Stade Francais now that is something to congradulate.
30 Jun 2006, 16:16 pm
Steel Shark,
That game holds the record for the largest crowd attendance in a single stadium at a French sporting event ever, beating even the World Cup final in 98.
30 Jun 2006, 16:17 pm
cab – stop bashing weed – its against the rules of the site !
30 Jun 2006, 16:18 pm
Apologies, the above is incorrect, it was actually the Stade/Biarritz game.
30 Jun 2006, 16:19 pm
Wackyweed???… outdated…Tik only these days, especially on the Seaboard and other upper echelons of society
Vetkoek
Dont make your problems mine…
30 Jun 2006, 16:20 pm
Bashing anything to do with Cape Town is against the rules.
30 Jun 2006, 16:21 pm
oh right – fair enough.
the capetonians are extremely laidback…the only okes that can compete are the zimbos who take the proverbial cake.
30 Jun 2006, 16:22 pm
Bod,
If you’re going to live in my beloved Cape Town, then you are going to have to learn to have sympathy for us Capetonians stuck in the insufferable heat of Mud Island, with not a decent La Med or Blues in sight…
30 Jun 2006, 16:33 pm
Cab stop irritating Ig.
30 Jun 2006, 16:33 pm
Ok Vetkoek
I understand your predicament and wont antagonise you any further.
Just think, there are those worse off than you by being stuck in Pretoria and having to go to Eastwoods for a Friday afternoon ale…
30 Jun 2006, 16:33 pm
And what the heck is wackyweed anyway.
You gotta start calling it by its name!
30 Jun 2006, 16:37 pm
ABSA has wholeheartedly supported the withdrawl of a large Bok squad from the Currie Cup. The low attendance figures are a worthy reward for a sponsor/bank that is prepared to screw the public around every corner.
30 Jun 2006, 16:42 pm
Bod…thats nothing, on the east rand we have to go down to the local kroeg in the Boksburg north hotel for an ale. you count your blessings if you get a clean glass and someone by the name of Breeker Maloy doesn’t approach you. then again, we do have wild waters…
Dawn, i am naive in that area, a couple of beers is enough for me.
30 Jun 2006, 16:43 pm
Lang Giel – I agree. I have a mortgage account in SA – two transactions per month with that account – rent in, mortgage out. Bank charges – R200
30 Jun 2006, 16:53 pm
Cab… I think you will find that things have changed on the East Rand when you get back. You are more likely to have the erstwhile Equirhini(I think) Police Chief aka Robert McBride and his cohorts approaching you in the Imperial Hotel …
Gecko
Change your bank…
30 Jun 2006, 16:56 pm
Bod – hard to do from 13000km.
My old bank (I won’t name names) closed all my accounts after I’d been abroad a few years – and didn’t even bother to tell me, or send me the cash.
30 Jun 2006, 17:01 pm
Bod…haha, yes i think Cape Town is a pretty cool place to live, but the poms are buying up all the waterfront property.
actually the banks back home are kak, i’ve accumulated more interest to pay then money in them.
30 Jun 2006, 17:23 pm
Gecko,
Same thing happened to me. Took me 2 weeks on my annual trip home to convince them I was me. They seemed a little surprised that I still wanted my money. So they “unfroze” my accounts.
Went home a year later… account frozen again, despite me having deposited around R10,000 in it every 3 months.
30 Jun 2006, 17:47 pm
I have gecko’s.
Feed them to my tarantula
1 Jul 2006, 07:09 am
steel shark leeds tykes brought that figure down as they got appalling crowds while they were in the premiership. Quins have already done well at getting season ticket holders signed up
1 Jul 2006, 10:39 am
Has SA rugby hit rock bottom?
In a country where controversy is a part of daily life and political sensitivity the order of the day it seems not even sport can escape the clutches of the power-mongers. SA rugby has once again this week been embroiled in crisis regarding the National team coach and his contract. This follows the unfortunate death of a club rugby player in a game marred by violence and the Boks first home defeat in 14 Tests. The poor turnouts at the Incoming Tour test matches and relative lack of interest in the Currie Cup competition should be raising alarm bells at headquarters.
It is the very administration of the game that seems responsible for the current state of our rugby. Decisions are not being made with the interest of the game or it’s many role-players at heart. Our continued failure to be competitive at Super 14 level should by now have resulted in a massive overhaul of our competition structures. For decades on end the Currie Cup remained largely unchanged and in the dark days of isolation gave us a dose of top-class rugby in place of the internationals we were missing. The past couple of years have seen continuous alterations to the structure of the competition and provided us with the entertaining Spears saga, somewhat of a rugby soapie.
It is high time long-term decisions were made and a plan drawn up to provide solutions for all stakeholders. The demise of Club rugby and proliferation of professional players has torn apart the very foundation of the game at grassroots level. There must be a well organised Club rugby structure at amateur level and steps must be taken to rid the club game of mal-administration and on- or off-field violence. It would not be completely impossible to replace the existing Vodacom Cup competition with a National Premier Club competition. The money made available to the Unions for Vodacom Cup rugby could be channeled into a broader audience and give club rugby the shot in the arm it so desperately needs.
With the removal of the Vodacom Cup at Union level the Currie Cup could return to it’s traditional strengths. A 6 team Premier division would play for Super 14 qualification and the last team relegated to be replaced by the First division champions. An 8 team first division would stand in place of the Vodacom Cup and be played in parralel to the Currie Cup. This would allow 14 professional teams in SA and limit the ammount of pro players in turn leading to an improvement of standards. The rugby season would look something like this:
Feb – May Super 14 featuring the top 5 sides in SA with a draft system in place
April – September Club season including National Premier league
July – October Currie Cup rugby Premiership and First Division
Springboks would be selected for the Incoming Tour and Tri-Nations and be withheld from other competitions.
The EOYT squad would be selected after the Currie Cup allowing for the inclusion of new talent etc.
When it comes to player contracting all Super 14 players (that is 5×28 man squads) would be contracted at National Level. Currie Cup players that are not selected for Super 14 duty would be free to take up contracts with their respective Unions. These players could be loaned to Super 14 squads if needed with the National Body reimbursing the Union for the players services. Careful consideration must be given to players welfare, they are after all the asset that the product is based on. There must be a cap to the number of games a player can play in a season and this must be set in stone. For example Jack is a key part of his Super 14 teams line-up and plays in 12 games, as the cap is 30 matches he is left with 18 matches for the year. Jack gets a Bok call up for the Incoming Tours and plays 1 Test before being dropped for the Tri-nations. As a nationally contracted player the coach decides he will be needed for the EOYT and as such is released to play a maximum of 12 matches to allow him a possible 5 Tests/matches on tour. This is an concept rather than a solution, but hopefully illustrates the idea.
The SA Rugby Union would need to be streamlined into an umbrella body for the greater game. They would oversee the running of the game, be responsible for rugby at National Level and provide guidance for the greater administration structure. A body like the Presidents Council could be placed at the head of the game at Union level and report to the National Executive. Their responsibilities would entail the 14 professional Unions, Currie Cup and all representative rugby at Union level. In parralel to this professional arm would be the National Amateur Rugby body that would control rugby at Club and School level. They would be responsible for all issues pertaining to the amateur game, the SA amateur team and encompass everything to do with schools rugby.
At National level more must be done to prepare players for the rigours of International rugby. Having just the Springboks is not enough and we desperately need to re-look the Junior Bok concept. With the end of touring and demise of the “dirttracker XV†there is no stepping stone to full-blooded international competition. With the right competition structures in place and a clear path for aspiring players to follow this is a logical step and serious thought needs to be given to a SA “Maori†type side. If we are indeed serious about transformation then a representative team could be entered into an African competition or similar to expose promising players of colour to top-class rugby and grow the available resource base.
I would love to see a 6 team National setup as follows:
Boks – the elite national squad to play in Tri-nations and full Internationals
SA A – This team could get involved in a competition with second-tier nations eg Churchill Cup
Jnr Boks – this team would comprise players of colour (a’la Maori) and could compete in the southern
six nations involving said Maori team and teams from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga etc.
SA Amateur – to compete in an African competition as they do at present
SA U/21
SA U/19
The development of coaches is another area needing major attention. All coaches must undergo periodic National assessment by a body put in place to serve the coaches. This body would provide the coaches with a forum for airing their concerns and allow for greater co-operation between coaches at different levels. We must identify the top coaches in SA and give them the best possible chance of becoming top professionals in their field. The day would come when having a South African coach would be a major step towards success, much like the proliferation of Dutch caoches in international football.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks in this country is fear of risk or failure it seems. At some time it will be realised that only by tearing down and re-building can the damage we have done be removed for the long term. Our unreasonable demands and hopes have seen many talented youngsters fall by the wayside or worse yet opt to persue their careers elsewhere. We demand instant results and instant heroes, but are not prepared to put the hard yards in nurturing talent at the bottom of the ruck. There is a distinct lack of succession in any area of SA rugby and everything is done with short-sighted decisions that secure the current status quo. A player of 21 might be good enough regards skills, he may even have the physical prescence, but I assure you he lacks experience. No team of 20 – 25 year old wonderkids have won anything of importance and frankly never will. We have lost our respect for experience and “coming through the ranks†is relic of a much more honourable past.
All said it seems a lot to do and some changes are major overhauls of long-held and outdated beliefs. The older heads may find change disturbing and be reluctant to let go of the plum jobs and easy gravy of the present, but the future will come and with it a revolution of youth that may yet correct the ongoing wrongs of those that have failed to grasp the New South Africa.
1 Jul 2006, 11:56 am
Why not let people in for free? Inside the ground sell all sorts of merchandise at high prices.
1 Jul 2006, 13:24 pm
Lack of Depth?
More like mismanagement of available resources it seems.
Loosehead Prop
Os du Randt is the incumbent and rightly so, the man is not only experienced but also a legend to boot.
Gurthro Steenkamp – young and a huge talent needs to recover well from his long lay-off
Ollie le Roux – perhaps not a long-term option, but offers huge experience and is still a world-class player
Lawrence Sephaka – adequate if not spectacular player who has improved vastly as he matures
Deon Carstens – will have to do some hard work to recover lost ground from his drubbing in JHB vs the World XV.
Other contenders include Daan Human , Eduard Coetzee (both currently abroad), JD Moller leads the young turks and Heinke v/d Merwe will challenge in the future. Wessel Roux is a capped Springbok however dubiously and could be called on in extreme emergency as with Bok tourist Brent Moyle.
Hooker
John Smit is the incumbent and captain. There is a general consensus that he needs to lift his form at the moment.
Gary Botha – a solid hooker in the more traditional role and worthy back up to Smit.
Danie Coetsee – another old-school hooker with experience and solid presence
Hanyane Shimange – surely needs to play at some level and lose the Quota tag he represents
Other contenders include the exciting talents of Schalk Brits, Lukas v Biljon (former Bok), Tiaan Liebenberg who had such an impressive debut for the Cheetahs in Super 14 and the younger talents of Skipper Badenhorst, Bismarck du Plessis and U/21 star Chilliboy Ralepelle.
Tighthead
CJ v/d Linde is young, strong and immensely talented. He will look to secure the 3 jumper again this season after an injury lay-off.
Cobus Visagie – offers vast experience and is recognised as one of the worlds best scrummagers.
BJ Botha – can he reproduce his awesome Super 14 form at International level?
Eddie Andrews – hardworking and honest, but ultimately struggles on the highest stage.
In Richard Bands and Marius Hurter we have two capped tightheads who could both do the job, but age and form are their major stumbling blocks. In Jannie du Plessis, Daniel Muller, Danie Thiart and Sangoni Mxoli there are a number of good prospects coming through the ranks and it is up to them to step up and challenge in coming seasons.
Locks
Bakkies Botha – a legend in the making. A copybook enforcer that is vital to Bok success.
Victor Matfield – supremely talented yet often lazy player that has it in his own hands to decide how good he really can be.
Danie Roussow – has shown great form recently as replacement for Bakkies and is a great impact option.
Albert v/d Bergh – despite the march of time is still a very competitive player that can get the job done.
Other locks to be considered include the talents of former Boks Selborne Boome, Gerrie Britz, Jannes Labuschagne, Quinton Davids and legendary hardman Johan Ackerman. Add to this the emerging lights of Andries Bekker, Johan Muller, Ross Skeate and Francois van Schouwenburg and the landscape looks abundant. We can add to this department the likes of Barend Pieterse, Boela du Plooy, Corniel v Zyl, Trevor Hall and Willem Stoltz.
Loose-forwards
This is an area of riches and there is a surplus of talent to go around at blindside and number 8, but the lack of any true opensiders that can fulfil a fetching role is a concern.
Openside
Schalk Burger is a unique player and a massive cog in the Bok gameplan. Chasing Schalk are the specialised fetchers like: Luke Watson, Solly Tiyabilika, Cobus Grobbelaar, Kabamba Floors, Hendro Scholtz, Gerhard Vosloo and young Keegan Daniel. There is a lot of exciting talent, but are any of these players good enough to step up and go toe-to-toe with McCaw and company. Tim Dlulane may wear No.6 for the Bulls,but does not play in the classical fetcher role. Warren Britz is a quality player, but his best years are behind him now. Hendrik Gerber is another that has played either side, but specialises in the fetching role.
Blindsie
No shortage of candidates here either lead by Juan Smith, Jacques Cronje AJ Venter, Wikus van Heerden and the talents of youngster Pierre Spies. There are ample other candidates in: Jacques Botes (at 6,7 or 8), Nico Breedt, Braam Immelman, Warren Brosnihan and another versatile flank in Johan Wasserman. If one includes overseas based Marco Wentzel and Roland Bernard it seems there is plenty available and youngsters like Leon Karemaker, Hylton Lobberts and David Hendricks will maintain pressure.
Number 8
Joe van Niekerek, Pedrie Wannenburg and former Bok skipper Andre Vos are world-class and if you include Bobby Skinstad (given time to get fit) , Shaun Sowerby , Ryno v/d Merwe, Adri Badenhorst and relative new arrivals Frans Viljoen and Ernst Joubert there seems to be plenty of depth. Sevens star Johnathan Mokuena is another that would hope to improve his XV man prospects. Then what of Jake Boer a UK legend and eager to be Bok.
Scrumhalf
Fourie du Preez – good with the boot, but has his critics especially regarding the speed of service and passing accuracy.
Enrico Januarie – at his best a real terrier on defence and perfect for an expansive game.
Ruan Pienaar – Has the attributes to be the worlds best. A good all-round game and brilliant vision will see him go on to great things.
Bolla Conradie – Has lost his way a little of late, but is another fine half in the terrier mould.
Other players that are available include ex-boks Neil de Kock, Dave von Hoesselin, Craig Davidson and young challengers Paul Delport, Janno Vermaak, Michael Claasens, Heini Adams and Tertius Carse.
Flyhalf
Perhaps the weakest link in SA rugby at present, much to do with our desire for a ready made hero that is better than Larkham and Carter.
Andre Pretorious – good all-rounder and incumbent. Not only injury prone, but often loses the plot when the heat is on. Best of the worst at the moment.
Jaco v/d Westhysen – has had a poor start to the international season, but is a creative player. His mental ability is the biggest question mark.
Butch James – Big on defence and a good distributor when in-form he can be devastating, but out of form is plain woeful.
Meyer Bosman – Will he make it his own? Has all the hallmarks of a good flyhalf and needs to be nurtured and managed carefully.
Peter Grant, Naas Olivier, Morne Steyn, Derick Hougaard and Willem de Waal have not set the world alight and none has put his hand up convincingly. Add to this the potential of Earl Rose, Ismael Dollie, Jody Rose, Scott Spedding and Brad Barritt (if not at centre). There are many options, but at this stage none have staked a decent claim.
Centres
In Jean de Villiers and Jacque Fourie we have a potential world beating combination the question what is left after that?
De Wet Barry, Wayne Julies, Marius Joubert and emerging youngster Wynand Olivier lead the charge and there are many talented youngsters coming through amongst which the following could really shine:
Brad Barritt, Ronnie Cooke, Andries Strauss and Waylon Murray. Add to this some experienced campaigners like: JP Nel, Dries Scholtz, Conrad Stoltz, Frikkie Welsh, Trevor Halstead, Adriaan Jacobs and others like Grant Rees, Barry Goodes, Gus Theron and former Bok Gcobani Bobo it seems we have midfield men to spare. This has however been a major problem for us early on in the season.
Wingers
Breyten Paulse, Bryan Habana, Andre Snyman, Gaffie du Toit, Ashwin Willemse, Thinus Delport, Henno Mentz, Tonderai Chavhanga, Brent Russell and Dean Hall are all Springboks. Then there are the challengers: Akona & Odwa Ndungane, Wylie Human, Jorrie Muller and Giscard Pieters. With Jongi Nokwe, Cedric Mkhize,Marius Delport and Gio Ap[on in the mix there should be no worry out wide.
Fullbacks
Percy Montgommerry is the senior man and is covered by Conrad Jantjes, Werner Greeff and Johan Roets. Add to this list JP Pitersen, Joe Pietersen, Earl Rose and Bevan Fortuin with Shaun Payne a candidate from abroad there is plenty to look forward to.
There are in each position a few others I may have missed, but if that is the case then all the better. We can add to this list the names of those representing other countries like:
Matt Stevens, Pieter de Villiers, Daniel Vickerman, Clyde Rathbone, Stuart Abottt, Mike Catt, etc.
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