Sharks deny Butch punch
3 Jul 2006
Linston Manuels is back in the news after he flagged Butch James for an alleged punch against Western Province on Saturday.
The touch judge, who was the centre of a massive controversy in the Super 14 when he disallowed a perfectly good try by Akona Ndungane, raised his flag as AJ Venter scored a try for the Sharks in the left-hand corner. However, according to Manuels, James had thrown a punch earlier in the movement. The Sharks No 10 was sent to the sin bin and Province awarded a penalty.
Fortunately for the Sharks, it didn’t cost them the game as James returned to play a part in Danie Saayman’s match-winning try.
“It was apparently a punch, which it wasn’t,” said Sharks coach Dick Muir at the press conference. “The player said he didn’t punch. I trust my player.
“I just think Butch is an incredible competitor. He plays it hard and fair and he’s not the type of guy who will intentionally high tackle or punch. He just gets himself into awkward positions sometimes.”
Manuels, however, told the Cape Times that James had thrown a punch at WP fullback Gio Aplon.
“I walked up to seperate them,” he said. “Butch punched him in the face as they got up. That’s why I gave Jonathan [Kaplan] the call of foul play. I saw it clearly. Why would I flag and give the call if I didn’t see it?”
57 Comments
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3 Jul 2006, 07:03 am
Yeah, something new…!
3 Jul 2006, 07:05 am
Difficult choice, between the ‘expert evidence’ of Linston or the ‘squeeky clean’ record of James…I call it a draw!
3 Jul 2006, 07:11 am
Why not simply ask Aplon?
3 Jul 2006, 07:14 am
Because that will be to easy and logical and then the journos will have nothing to speculate about…
3 Jul 2006, 07:15 am
Looks like Butch still needs help sorting out what his arms are for…
3 Jul 2006, 07:41 am
hey where in west aussie ? west aussie bok perth?
3 Jul 2006, 07:42 am
Klippies,
yep, in Perth. You in WA as well?
3 Jul 2006, 08:01 am
Tenminste was ek reg met die dat Butch n geel kaart gaan kry het toe net nie n rooie gekry nie en die WP het ook nie gewen nie!!! Nee ek kon ook nie vuishou sien nie
3 Jul 2006, 08:06 am
While waiting for the Sharks players behind the Grand Stand @ Newlands, Linston Manuels was appearing and joining a friend that was waiting for him. I was standing about 2 metres away from them and could hear their discussion about the Butch James and Gio Aplon’s incident quite clearly. Manuels mentioned that he have asked Aplon if James hit him, on which Aplon answered yes, but he said in his statement to the the Cape Times he actually saw James gave Aplon a punch in the face…I don’t understand, how can a touch judge or even a referee go on a player’s word if he must stick to the rule that the referee or touch judge can only make a descision on what he have seen and not hear ???
3 Jul 2006, 08:20 am
Well if the above post is true, then Manuels is more of a fool than originally thought. What does the camera say & YES! as APELON for the
3 Jul 2006, 08:25 am
James pushed Aplon’s head down as he got up. Nothing resembling a punch. Ref was awesome, touch judges were awful.
Linston Manuels also saw someone “knock on” a try, with the benefit of slow motion, earlier this year. That said, Koos makes a good point (post 2).
3 Jul 2006, 08:27 am
aplon tackled butch in the air, but no one saw that! natal deserved a penalty, but they scored a try anyway,only to be disallowed bcause butch reacted badly.
3 Jul 2006, 08:30 am
First he gets done for no arms now he’s get done for too liberal use of the arms when will it end
3 Jul 2006, 08:44 am
he will definitly not get away with what aplon did!
3 Jul 2006, 08:46 am
Butch had been involed in a number of off the ball incidents during the game, including shoving one of the Province Physio’s and throwing the ball in to the crowd to prevent a Province throw in. Geo weighs in at 70 k against Butch’s 100 k > So why push Aplon’s head down.
Butch has a lot of tallent but is involved in too much off the ball stuff for his own good.
3 Jul 2006, 08:47 am
Hoekom sal jy… wag laat ons sien… Omdat jy kakker as George Ayoub is, maw jy is die kakste ref wat nog asemhaal. F%$&#n loser.
3 Jul 2006, 08:56 am
Gretep
I saw the water boy incident. Was not that bad. But in butch defence I would also react to a aggressive body language from a water boy of the opposition. Geez I dont know why peoples brains dont hold the waterboy responsible for that. Must Butch take all the responsibility.
Must any pro sportsman take abuse ,, of nay type,,, from public. NOPE , they shouldnt. I would have reacted in the same way.
3 Jul 2006, 08:58 am
Gretep
Also ,,, your reference to weight is irrelivent. What your point. ??
Can guys who are only lighter than their opposition push or shove (as is standard in rugby)????????
3 Jul 2006, 09:02 am
butch is a saint
3 Jul 2006, 09:02 am
Has anyone found out who has this poopal on their payroll? It has to be that simple.
3 Jul 2006, 09:03 am
amazon, I didn’t see the incident. I therefore don’t know how serious it was. There can be no excuse whatsoever for a player who attacks an official, a spectator, or any of the non playing staff. There is a very definite line which is crossed there.
Remember, Percy got a 15 month ban for pushing a linesman.
3 Jul 2006, 09:07 am
Alica
You are right. but it was a simple shove to get the waterboy to take his shoulder and weight out of your chest. It was as though the water boy was wanting to intimidate him.
But to repeat myself. YOu are right.. You cannot shove an official.
Trust me if that was a natal waterboy and a province player the same would ahve happened.
Really it was nothing. But butch haters want it to be something.
talk about butch been taken in the air. Thats fair
3 Jul 2006, 09:07 am
Butch James problem has always been the fact that he is a hothead, may it be tackling or reacting to being tackled hard. I didn’t think he punched Aplon but his reaction smacks of someone who thinks he can play hard but when he gets it back he gets all reactive. He needs to sort out his attiutude.
3 Jul 2006, 09:08 am
Alica
It was definitely not an attack(waterboys are also not officials)
3 Jul 2006, 09:08 am
Lemoen
Ons het dit darem so amper gemaak , daar is defnitief hoop vir Province. Dit was regtig ‘n aanskoulikke game gewees. Iets wat die springbokke meer gereeld kan doen , hardloop rugby. Sien uit na ‘n goeie CC seisoen.
3 Jul 2006, 09:11 am
IG
You are right in your assesment.
But then you must focus on half of every rugby playing individual who retaliates.
I feel that if butch shoved martin johnson or troy flavel around in a test we would be saying quietly. Well done. We want guys who stand up for themselves.
The bulls dominate SA rugby because they dont stand back in any situation. They have that attitude.
3 Jul 2006, 09:19 am
Amazon – Fair enough, but you don’t have to act like a wanker to stand up for yourself. Get up and flatten the bugger the next time he carries the ball….Not wait till you standing over him and try and crush the dudes face while he is lying prone.
3 Jul 2006, 09:24 am
Well, I didn’t see the punch, but I definately saw “That” shoulder, ala…the good old days in the same passage of play.
Have to laugh at Muir on this one….”I trust my player”
ja….just like Heineke Meyer trusts his player that said he didn’t moer BJ at Loftus.
3 Jul 2006, 09:25 am
Butch is a hugely talented player, and he will make my Bok team personally.
But he has the real wanker attitude which I cannot stand.
Like Ig said, get on with the game and flatten the bugger next time he carries the ball – stop this off the ball kak.
I also saw the throwing off the ball away incident, not that it was Butch, but that is a penalty, I am surprised Kaplan missed that.
Good win for the Sharks, good game of rugby.
Must be said, I thought the Sharks were pretty ordinary. Maybe it was a bit of complacency, but they performed well below par.
AJ was shocking in my view. He did not play close to what we saw in the S14
3 Jul 2006, 09:29 am
Butch’s hair looks like a toilet brush.
3 Jul 2006, 09:31 am
“I walked up to seperate them,†he said. “Butch punched him in the face as they got up. That’s why I gave Jonathan [Kaplan] the call of foul play. I saw it clearly. Why would I flag and give the call if I didn’t see it?â€
Ig
Butch is undoubtedly an airhead at times but we have to admire the controversy Linston Manuels evokes as a sort of ‘airhead’ official.
Rugby has all sorts of macho stuff in it, but it’s usually dismised as handbags at 40 paces. Butch antipathy is one thing ( I think he is as thick as pig ****) but I can’t believe the rhetoric in 27 to describe a non event.
I watched the TDF with the incident involving Thor being cut by a camera as he sprinted for the line. No speculation, no hype, it was shown up clearly in the replays. We have both the technology and the capability to display Butch’s offence. If he’s ‘trying to crush the dudes face while he is lying prone’ then FFS show it, site and ban him.
3 Jul 2006, 09:33 am
the incident happened in front of me and did not see the try as was watching the scuffle
did not see any punch and certainly did not warrant a yellow card
however the touch judge was closer than me
sharks were fortunate to get the last penalty as i felt the player who the province full back tackled briliantly should have been penalised for not immediately releasing the ball or playing it but he continued to move on the ground
also would have red carded the sharks lock for mountaineering
kaplan was on the other side nad had to rely on a touch juge report
best game at newlands in years and you never have a good game without a decent ref
3 Jul 2006, 09:35 am
Sarky – i agree Manuels seems to be a plonker. And i agree that rugby is a rough game but on the replay i saw he had his forearm clearly pressed into Aplon’s face and he had his body behind it….
No rhetoric – just what i saw.
and well done to the sharks, they didn’t deserve to win but they did – a sign of a good team in the making.
3 Jul 2006, 09:37 am
The thing is siting has become a farce … teams don’t do it lest they be told they are being soft …
Butch and many others in the Sharks side are thuggish … as a supporter I can say this in particular when faced with a nippy ‘darkie’ that shows them up …
I’ve seen these boys when they play club rugby … maybe we can remedy butch’s thuggish ways by giving him a game with the club delicious … see if his same sh*t will be tolerated …
Muir must get rid of the ill discipline … and Bad Karma … Butch as talented as he is has been unfortunate because he is sucha dirty player what comes around goes around …
3 Jul 2006, 09:48 am
aquarius27 sounds like you’ve been chewing on a rather bitter pill there. What’s it like to lose so much
3 Jul 2006, 09:48 am
sarky, how freaky was that incident with thor, u gotta love that sport.
also, correct me if i am wrong but i saw butch’s weight listed as something like 80-85 kg, i thought he was bigger.
u gotta admit that butch gets his line away nicely. i like that he was not taken with on the tri-nations out leg. let him get some cc game time and then we can see.
3 Jul 2006, 09:49 am
I was at the game and Butch defintely landed a few on Aplon. Aplon took Butch out in the air, Butch took exception and had a go at Aplon on the ground. Manuels had to come onto the field to pry Butch off of him. It’s really funny that Butch denies the punch/punches. And even funnier that Muir believes him.
3 Jul 2006, 09:50 am
Butch is more 95-98 kg’s if I’m not mistaken.
3 Jul 2006, 09:59 am
Dawn, Funny, he has the brain of a toilet brush too.
3 Jul 2006, 10:09 am
Butch bly n vuilgat en hou van baklei…hy is n briljante loskakel maar sy humeur gaan die spanne waarin hy speel nog gereeld in die toekoms kos
3 Jul 2006, 10:13 am
Predawn you are right, just checked the sharks website, butch is 97 kilos.
JP Pieterson 95 kgs and dusty noble 90 kgs. these two boys are gonna go far.
3 Jul 2006, 10:37 am
Kners I saw Butch up close at The Stoop rugby ground in 2003. He’s a big lad and tall as well. Brent Russell was the only player that took me up to my shoulder.
3 Jul 2006, 11:07 am
Don’t worry Kners as big as you think they are … at some stage you will hear they are a bit light to be playing this game …
They will go far if we see them as players and not as colours and give them the same opportunities we still give Andre Snyman …
Never been on a losing side to Butch …
3 Jul 2006, 11:07 am
where’s the TV replay?
3 Jul 2006, 11:39 am
Andre_wp ja wel ek moet se ek was moerse verbaas met WP ek het regtig gedink dit gaan n weghardloop wees vir die sharks maar nou moet die naweek net verby kom want met die Bulle gaan ons klippe kou en dit op Loftus!Eina!!!Maar ja ons moet teen hulle speel kan nie dit net los nie hopelik kies Bulle hulle “C” SPAN TEEN ONS DAN SAL ONS DARM SEKER NIE TE VERLOOR NIE!! Ek laaik nogal die agsteman!!
3 Jul 2006, 11:42 am
Jammer ek het gesubmit voor ek kla was Kan nie ou se van spel nie die agsteman!! En miskien moes ek se ons sal nie so ver verloor teen die “C” span nie!!
3 Jul 2006, 12:22 pm
The point is that Butch is good for a card a game !!!
simple !
3 Jul 2006, 13:06 pm
It is a known fact that as Bokke, if you don’t dominate your opponent on the field of play, and you’re on the losing side, just resort to fists, bites and etc.
See Bakkies Botha, Corne Krige when they lose. So its no suprise that Butch is just that. They were losing at the time.
3 Jul 2006, 17:43 pm
When are some of you old woman that blog on this site going to realise that rugby is not for SISSIES
3 Jul 2006, 18:06 pm
Kaplan was the problem – Aplon was physically unmarked . Butch told me after the game (while I was talking with DHS old boy “Mox” Sangweni Mxoli – the 2nd half replacement prop) that Aplon would not release Butch’s jersey . So Butch swung and connected his forearms with Aplon’s , who immediately released Butch .
In summary :
Did Butch take a swing – YES
Was Aplon marked – NO
Did Butch tell this to Kaplan prior to Kaplan consulting the inconsistent Manuel – YES
Verdict :
Kaplan should have noted Aplon was unmarked and cautioned Butch – because it was not a full blooded punch , but just a swinging forearm to Aplon’s forearms – and if necessary WP or Aplon could have cited and then the video evidence would have determined the truth .
So it seems as though the Carmel High School Old Boy , Kaplan erred . However , I missed All out Rugby yesterday and will wait for thursday – Boots and All to see that Andrew David James was truthful .
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