AB pack pounds Wobblies
8 Jul 2006
Victory by 20 points to the All Blacks — and one that could have been even more convincing had Dan Carter kicked better.
Carter defensively was outstanding in the All Blacks 32-12 Vodacom Tri Nations win against the Australians, but he experienced a difficult night with the boot, both when kicking at goal and out of hand. His attacking impact was also limited but it is the measure of his quality that even when he plays poorly, he can still come out of the contest having made a difference.
It was Carter’s charge down of a Stephen Larkham kick, quick regather and offload that set up the All Blacks bonus point fourth try two minutes from time. And it was a fourth try that should have come some time earlier when Carter’s cross kick found replacement lock Ali Williams, who tapped it down only for an unopposed Rico Gear to knock on five metres out.
Four tries to two was a fair indication of the All Blacks dominance and 20 points was as accurate in the difference on the night. It may even have been a bit kind to the Wallabies, given Carter’s goalkicking troubles.
The Wallabies, having scored first through a Chris Latham counter attack and Lote Tuqiri finish, were under intense pressure at scrum time and at the breakdown where the industrious Jerry Collins and Richie McCaw were too potent for the slower Australian loose-forwards, of whom Rocky Elsom was the most ill-disciplined and disappointing.
Elsom was sin-binned for a third successive professional foul with the Wallabies leading 7-0 and in his absence the All Blacks scored two converted tries within five minutes. It was a sin-binning that was always going to be probable as the cumbersome back rowers tried to slow the pace of the game at the breakdown. South African referee Jonathan Kaplan, who enjoyed a fantastic night, was not going to tolerate the cynicism and negative play of the Aussies at the breakdown and the Wallabies were never in a position to win the game.
Pre-match predictions singled out the superior All Blacks scrumming and aggressiveness at the breakdown as telling home team advantages and on both counts the All Blacks were superior. Carl Hayman was particularly brutal on young Aussie loosehead Guy Shepherdsen. And while Australia dominated possession and territory in the last 30 minutes, their attacking efforts made little impact against a black defensive wall magnificently led by McCaw and Collins, who between them made 30 tackles.
Carter made 14 tackles at flyhalf, but to put the win down to a defensive effort only would be short-changing those ugly buggers who do are the dirty work in the engine room. The All Blacks tight five was responsible for the flow of the game and Australia never recovered from the early battering. The scrum advantage gave New Zealand comfort at every put in, be it their own ball or Australia’s and the Wallabies were again forced to resort to phase play and patience.
It wasn’t enough. On 10 occasions the visitors took the ball through five-plus phases and not once did they break the All Blacks first line of defence. Their first try was a counter attack and their second came from a lineout drive near the tryline.
New Zealand’s backs were the more dangerous because of the quality of ball at their disposal. Aaron Mauger asked the most questions of the Wallabies defence and Leon Macdonald was very good when running the ball back at the Australians.
The All Blacks were as patient in defence as the Wallabies were in attack. But the aggressiveness and intensity of the defence proved decisive and the All Blacks constantly troubled Australia with a willingness to attack from any turnover ball. Some of the interplay between backs and forwards was of the highest quality, with Jason Eaton, Chris Jack and Keven Mealamu brilliant with ball in hand.
Australia only threatened from kick-offs, where Eaton missed three, and they looked dangerous when driving from the lineout. Then again, which top five team doesn’t have an advantage driving the lineout ball from five and 10 metres out?
The shoddy kick-off takes at least gives the All Blacks something to address in their week off, while Wallabies coach John Connolly knows his tight five problems are still as prominent as they were a year ago.
The Springboks wait in Brisbane and technically the Wallabies will have to find something to neutralise the Bok forward power. It should be an intruiging week as the focus shifts to Brisbane and the Boks.
In New Zealand, they will reflect on a 19th successive home win and a magical tournament bonus point. It was a win, brutal in execution and brilliant for what it showed on the scoreboard.
Isaia Toeva
ScorersIsaia Toeva
All Blacks - Try: Keven Mealamu (27th minute, 33rd minute), Richie McCaw (48th minute) and Isaia Toeava. Conversions: Daniel Carter (28th minute, 34th minute, 50th minute). Penalty: Carter (46th minute, 54th minute)
Wallabies - Try: Lote Tuqiri (16th minute), Scott Fava (51st minute). Conversions: Stirling Mortlock (17th minute). Penalty:
147 Comments
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9 Jul 2006, 00:32 am
I will be the first to admit that I was wrong. I thought the Aus backline was going to cause havoc for the AB’s. Shows you why White wants a dominant pack. Even the best backline struggle if their pack is always on the back foot. We are still in with a chance.
9 Jul 2006, 02:18 am
Ian (post 61),
I agree with your comments in regards to referee’s. However, I don’t believe that Kaplan fell into this category in last night’s game.
As for the comments about Aus. gifting the game through mistakes, you are once again not taking into account that sport involves 2 teams, and Aus. did not play in a vacuum. In other words, a team does not play well, either because they are not allowed to, or individuals make mistakes because of the pressure of the moment, or they are not skillful enough to fulfill the function where they failed. The unforced error in topline sport is a misnomer, and certainly does not relate to last night’s game.
To say that Aus. lost the game more than the AB’s won it does not do justice to this reality, and fails to give full credit where it is due.
Putting it into the context of last night’s game, 3 of the 4 tries could be attributed in part to AB pressure on Aus., with Aus. failing to be able to handle it. Mealamu’s first try came from pressure from Eaton in the lineout and pressure on McIsaac because of the context. McCaw’s try came from pressure from the AB’s, but was started by great skill from the kickoff to get the ball wide, and by Mauger who cut the Aus defense wide open, which was followed by a deft kick that put Aus. under pressure on their own line going backwards, with McCaw showing his rugby intellect. Toeava’s try came from pressure from DC and skill in his part to regain the ball and find the speed man. This was the second time Larkham had been charged down by Carter.
Therefore, to say that Aus. gifted these tries fails to account for the AB’s part in these situations, which also shows a certain amount of arrogance, by firstly, not giving the opposition their dues, and secondly, not understanding the nature of topline sport. It also shows a lack of understanding of the nature of international sport, where the top 2 inches often separates teams, where pressure from one team and mistakes from another is more often than not a defining reality in a given contest, where there is an interplay between these two concepts.
You said that from pretty much the start of the game, you knew that you were going to lose. If we were able to replicate the exact context of the Aus. start playing Romania, would you still be saying the same thing? Exactly!
The point of my question was to show the logical absurdity of what you were saying.
C Norris (101),
I have read your posts where you really rate the Aus. backline, but IMO the only 2 players who would have a chance of making our top backline would be Latham and Tuquiri. The Aus. backline can look spectacular against opposition who give them space and time, but this does not generally happen against formidable opposition.
9 Jul 2006, 03:21 am
I knew they would win but by how much I was not sure . Yeah tt the wobblies.
9 Jul 2006, 03:25 am
No question that the All Blacks deserved their win. They were clinical, few errors and defensively superb. I feel on that form they probably beat any team in the world and they certainly showed why they are rated No 1. Not to take away anything from their win, watching the re-run of the match I feel stronger than ever that Kaplan had a poor game. He seems to get one eyed and vindictive every time he refs. Australia. He had a shocker when the Waratahs played the Chiefs and practically blew the Aussies out of the game. The first time he pinged Elsom last night was a bad call – replays clearly show him on his feet and not on the ground. Elsom made a mistake in chirping back to Kaplan and from then on he was a marked man. Elsom’s second offence was blatant and deserved a penalty. His third offence was extremely harsh since he did roll away but in Kaplan’s view not quick enough. Hardly a sending off offence. And of course that opened the door for the A B ‘ to score twice. And during the whole of the first half Kaplan awarded only two penalties against the All Blacks – a remarkable achievement in a hrd fought test match. I thought they were pushing the margins which another ref might have pinged. But all credit to the All Blacks – one just feel that a more balanced ref would have made it a better contest. Can’t wait for the return match in Sydney which one feels will be ma much closer affair. Hamba Kahle.
9 Jul 2006, 03:32 am
Well that went much as expected and the 20 point margin about right. The fact is Aus were playing catchup rugby from the 55th minute, and were always going to lose once the scrum buckled twice around the 25 minute mark. A learning experience for the forwards. NZ pretty much faultless and they remain the benchmark. I thought Kaplan was, as you lot say, kak, and made more wrong calls against Aus than NZ. But as seen by the kiwi posters in front of this, it works both ways and in no way was he the reason for the 20 point margin. Thought Lote was very disappointing – missing tackles, dropping the ball. Elsom has always been a meathead since schoolboy days, but he has the necessary mongrel and should be retained. Big big test in brissy next weekend for Knuckles.
9 Jul 2006, 05:06 am
McCawesome,
Three of the AB tries were not tries if the ref had done his job properly. Normally Kaplan is an excellent ref, but last night he had a poor game. McCaw knocked on before Mealamu scored-Kaplan missed it. The charge down was after Kaplan had said he was playing advantage, but then after the first backline movement gave the advantage to the AB’s. He should have come back and given us the penalty because we did not get any advantage. The try scored by McCaw, was the result of a knock on! Only one legitimate try on the night. It had nothing to do with pressure, but bad referee calls.
As I’ve said before, I accept that some games the calls go against you, and at other times they go in your favour. For example, who can forget the awful call Honis (Mr. Kill the Game) made against the Boks when they were playing Ireland! It was a call that cost them the game and even the most biased Irish fan would have conceded that point.
I don’t follow your point with Romania. obviously, an off-form Aus side would still beat Romania. However, the same cannot be said when they are playing the stronger nations. What doesn’t help is when the ref blows against you too.
I am still not arguing that the AB’s did not deserve to win-they did. But had those calls not gone against us, the score would have been much, much closer.
Just by the way, three of the AB’s tries did not come from pressure. They came from poor refereeing.
Why did Kaplan not penalise Rocococo for going off his feet when Larkham dived ion the ball, which He is permitted to do? Why did he not play a p[roper advantage when we were on attack? Why did he not blow McCaw’s knock on before Mealamu scored?
No mate, I think you think your side is better than they are. I suspect it will be a different story when we meet again in Brisbane.
9 Jul 2006, 05:37 am
“Ifs” and “buts” this is all part of the post mortem of a game, but history will not remember the “ifs” and the “buts” Must remember that “if” Rico Gear had gathered in Ali Williams tap back from a Carter kick, that would have resulted in a try, “but” he did not. “If” Carter had been on target the whole game like he is on a good day, it would have been a bigger margin “but” he missed a few.
9 Jul 2006, 05:40 am
As I much as I love to go to see the AB’s play here at home, I and I probably speak for most AB supporters would rather see them play abroad, I love seeing the AB’s taking on the opposition on their turf, Brisbane is the next stop, Bring It On!!!
9 Jul 2006, 05:57 am
Ian,
The problem with this debate is that you are not following the logic my argument.
The point of my thread’s has been that international sport is made up of 2 teams and to say that the game is gifted by one team (Aus), or that they lost the game, more than the AB’s won the game (in this context), is to simplify all that is involved in the context of a given sport and to view it from one country’s perspective.
By saying (as you have said) that the AB’s were the better team, but Aus. lost the game, more than the AB’s won it, through the gifting of tries (although you are now saying in effect that Kaplan gifted the AB tries), it is a backward way of saying that Aus. is actually the better team, because you have shifted the burden of responsibility for the result of the game from NZ to Aus.
I thought the point in regards to Romania would have been obvious as I gave the context of your comments and it follows the same logic of what I have been saying. Let me explain. You said that pretty much as soon as the game started, you knew you were going to lose. The reason I mentioned replicating this game against Romania should make it clear that the defining factor is the opposition, which has been my whole point all along. Aus. would not feel under the same pressure playing Romania as against the AB’s and this would impact on how the game would be played and the individual outcomes which make up the totality of the game.
As for the ref., I don’t think this is going to lead anywhere productive, and I did comment on this in my last thread.
As for thinking my side is better than they are, this underscores the whole context of your comments. The AB’s have been #1 for about 2 years now and have won 19 straight at home. This does not make them unbeatable, nor does it mean that they will automatically win in the future. However, you can only make comments about the reality as it has been, and the AB’s have proven over a period of time, in a number of rugby contexts, that they are the best side in the world at the mo. I donot need to champion their cause, their results speak for them self.
Brisbane will be a good game, may the best team win!
9 Jul 2006, 06:01 am
Absolutely agree with you CSI,
The away games in the 3 nations are going to be good, but it is the end of year tour that is most appealing (IMO).
It is not only the opposition, particularly France, but it is the fact that Henry has talked this tour up as the most important of the year. Therefore, one would expect to see the AB’s peaking at this time and when the opposition is taken into account, I think the rugby will be fascinating, particularly with 07 WC looming.
9 Jul 2006, 06:58 am
Why is everyone so blind! South Africa, Australia and New Zealand has dominated Rugby Union since I was born. They have ignored the massive improvement of rugby union around the world because of cockiness. The Wallabies should change their name to the Bats! They are confused, unorganised and have lost their love and passion for rugby. Mr John Knuckles Connonly! Sir I am a Australian citizen with a polynesian back ground who is also related to the well respected “Totai Kefuâ€, and your highly undoubtably answer to Wallabies scrummaging “Rodney Blakeâ€. On the eighth of July, a burial ground was already organised in New Zealand for the Wallabies. Mr Connonly and The Wallabies (including George Gregan) You were MASSACRED physically, mentally, emotionally and even in the spirit of rugby SPIRITUALLY. Critics of Australian Rugby and South African Rugby pompously over exaggerate about their home team and will continously struggle to find unity if weaknesses aren’t recognized. Shamefully these critics are in denial. In addition to this “Phil Kearns†should be ashamed of himself after the comment he gave on channel 7 (Australian) during the game (Wallabie Vs All Blacks). An innocent happily excited All Black Spectator held his child in the air and a frustrated, immature commentator Mr Phil Kearns proudly stated that the spectator and child should be embarrassed of themsleves because they were of New Zealand nationality. You RACIST! You are a true Australian loser. I was embarrassed for my family who PROUDLY has worn the green and gold jersey in the past, present and those with goals to make the Wallabies in the future.
P.S.: For the love of rugby “Go Franceâ€
9 Jul 2006, 07:28 am
Passionate Newks,
I don’t believe I have read one of your threads before, so if its your first time, its good to hear your viewpoint!
Are you one of the family who has the goal of wearing the green and gold in the future, or is their a talent you can let us in on?
Are you sure it was Phil Kearns in the incident, as he commentates for Fox Sports? Channel 7, from memory was Gordon Bray, Tim Horan, and Dan Crowley. They have also nabbed Stu Wilson, for some unknown reason. NZ rugby public have certainly gained in this area, as we have Farr-Jones to listen to.
9 Jul 2006, 09:42 am
It was actually Dan Crowley that made that distastful commment. One of the worst and most biased “commentators” I have heard.
9 Jul 2006, 10:20 am
This Dan Crowley comment sounds interesting. Is Newks comments a direct quotation of what was said, it would be interesting to hear if it isn’t.
9 Jul 2006, 10:31 am
Did anyone catch Jerry Collins relieving himself on the field just before kickoff. Nature calls!!!
9 Jul 2006, 10:58 am
McCawsome,
I just seen the incident you refering to on the news, I remember seeing that kind of stuff in club rugby.
Newks,
Welcome aboard, just read your comment and its a great read, My brother in Sydney called me after the game and amongst our chat was the Dan Crowley incident, I am not surprised that he spoke out like that, he was a **** player, always will be a back-up if memory serves me right, and his comments just shows the IQ of the man. All I can say is, is that I guess he will be making a few more comments like that wehn the OZ’s come back to play at Eden Park. Phil Kearns is a more respected commentator over these parts, what he says is also one eyed, but its all fair play and fun with Kearnsy, Marto and Clarke, the channel 7 lads need a good kick up the bum for there commentary.
9 Jul 2006, 11:12 am
MY Bok team/Squad (all injuries aside!!!)
Manager: Morne du Plessis
Head Coach: Jake White
Forwards Coach: Heyneke Meyer
Backs Coach: Paul Treu
Technical Analyst: Rassie Erasmus
Kicking Coach: Louis Koen
Skills Coach: David Campese
15.) Percy Montgomery/JP Pietersen/Stefan Basson
14.) Aswin Willemse/Breyton Paulse/Tonderai Chavanga
13.) Jacque Fourie/Andre Snyman/Marius Joubert
12.) Jean de Villiers/Wynand Olivier/Brad Barrit
11.) Bryan Habana/Brent Russel/Odwa Ndungane
10.) Butch James/Meyer Bosman/Jaco van der Westhuysen
9.) Ruan Pienaar/Fourie du Preez/Ricky January
8.) Joe van Niekerk/AJ Venter/Pedrie Wannenburg
7.) Juan Smith/Pierre Spies/Keegan Daniel
6.) Schalk Burger/Luke Watson/Time Dlulane
5.) Victor Matfield/Selborne Boome/Ross Skeate
4.) Bakkies Botha/Danie Rossouw/Andries Bekker
3.) CJ van der Linde/Cobus Visagie/BJ Botha
2.) John Smit(c)/Schalk Brits/Chilliboy Rallepele
1.) Guthro Steenkamp/Os du Randt/Deon Carstens
9 Jul 2006, 11:21 am
RugbyStudent
Thats an impressive looking squad, I would actually have Campo as backs coach, but not an announce of disagreement with me there.
Now if only JW had someone like u asa selector.
9 Jul 2006, 11:23 am
When was the last time the All Blacks played a test against Australia in Brisbane? I remember one test up there where John Kirwan scored off the end of one of the finest length of field team tries in test rugby.
9 Jul 2006, 11:54 am
“And during the whole of the first half Kaplan awarded only two penalties against the All Blacks”
Since that was part of the game plan, I don’t think it can be blamed on Kaplan.
NZ deliberately started cautiously, trying to suss out the opposition and referee. They conceded ground rather than penalties and didn’t try too much. Hence the Aussie maul made good yards early on and their backs looked reasonably sharp: but only because the ABs were deliberately not risking any collapse or “in the side” offences, nor any penalties for offside in the backs.
I predicted before the game that they would start to crank up at 30 minutes. In the event, Elsom’s card meant that an ideal opportunity presented itself earlier, so they took that.
Expect every game to be like that: ABs to start slowly and concede few penalties. Hence, regardless of Kaplan’s faults, the low early penalty count cannot be blamed on bias.
As for penalising Joe Rokocoko for falling on Larkham when he went down on the ball on his line. Well, Joe went down alright, which wasn’t very clever, but he held onto neither Larkham or the ball. In fact he basically missed both, then got to his feet and entered from the correct side. Pretty harsh to penalise that.
9 Jul 2006, 12:18 pm
Good squad rugby student cept for the No.13 backups Marius Joubert and Andre SNyman are junk, IMO Ronnie Cooke, JP Nel or even moving Habana there would be better options.
9 Jul 2006, 14:30 pm
Re 106: Kaplan could not come back for advantage with the last AB try. He had clearly called “advantage over”. Perhaps he shouldn’t have, but he had.
Towards the end of the game Kaplan actually played quite long advantages for the Aussies — to their benefit mostly. Since they weren’t kicking for goal anyway, quality possession was all they were ever going to get from a penalty anyway. Since their scrum was going nowhere, awarding them a scrum was useless.
9 Jul 2006, 14:35 pm
NZ play down Collins indiscretion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/international/5162312.stm
9 Jul 2006, 17:06 pm
CSI.Rugby #119
Yes, Aus haven’t scheduled many games in Brisbane over recent years against NZ. Their have only been two fixtures simce 1990.
One in 1992 the other on 27 July 1996.
Almost 10 years to the day for the good folk of Brisbane to see their team take on NZ live. Anyone would think there was a conpiracy to deprive the locals.
9 Jul 2006, 19:18 pm
Whinging Wobblies.
http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19733928-23217,00.html
I wonder what they will report next week after the Boks game. “Dirty Boks bashed” or “Eye gauging freaks”.
9 Jul 2006, 21:00 pm
I can’t believe they think Elsom was innocent of the third, yellow card penalty (the second one was a bit wobbly, admittedly).
Of course he struggled to get off the ball: he had gone to a lot of trouble to fall exactly over it in the first place. Then he lay there until four pairs of boots started — whereupon he suddenly decided that he could move after all.
9 Jul 2006, 22:30 pm
I just read that ozzie link;
the only jokes on the feild were the 3 Oz front rowers and that was because the AB’s were so good
I clearly heard the ref call advantage over (and my wife says I’m partly deaf!)and so did the players,
so maybe the coach just needs a hearing check
Kaplan didn’t blow as many penalties as he could have but that favoured Oz as they were the ones hanging onto the ball on the ground and sending players in to grab Macaw no matter if he was in a ruck or not
9 Jul 2006, 23:45 pm
Not only do the Ozzies whine more than a 3inch Mozambique mozzie when they lose, but I am getting so sick of their negative win at all costs tactics when they are totally outgunned. Let me think of a few examples….
1) Bill Youngs frontrow antics(need I say more)
2) They were the fokkers that introduced dummy/decoy/obstructive running; now they whining about McCaw doing it to them, even though he had his hands on the ball so technically he was the ball carrier ……idiots
3)The pathetically cynical habit Gregan introduced that seems to (unfortunately) have become common nowadays where if the ref sticks his arm out for advantage, he (Gregan) goes for a drop goal which he and everyone else watching knows he will never slot. I think the law should change in that instance: if you go for a drop that is your advantage gone/finished/caput. It is absolutely ridiculous that a team gets 2 attempts in a row to claim 3 points, and most importantly the point of the advantage is so you press for the try and attempt to get 7 points out of it, and if it doesn’t work out you have the luxury of kicking for goal…… dodgy ozzie bollocks I reckon.
4) And now to top it all off, I saw Larkam TWICE receive a pass immediately after Kaplan indicated advantage and he DELIDERATELY knocked the ball on, collected it, and then ran straight to the spot where the penalty was given. If thats what the Ozmob call good positive rugby then quite frankly they can keep their gamesmanship and their underhanded tactics and shove it where it belongs.
Lets not forget the way they constantly squeal like pigs being molested by a confused horse whether they win or lose….theres always something they’re trying to slip into a press conference in the hope of gaining some sort of advantage going into the next match through influencing the ref or whoever via the media.
It became predictable about 3 years ago and now I actually feel embarrassed for them.
Have one of these one eyed Ozzie genius´who have criticised Kaplan stopped to think that maybe he just doesn’t fall for their slippery b-grade attempts at bending the rules? Added to the fact that Kaplan tends to be reffing when Oz sides are playing Kiwi ones and lets face it; they simply put better rugby teams on the field than the Ozzies…
This is why even when SA is in a slump (as we have been for a few years now, not including the last 2), NZ and SA will always have respect for each other and Oz will always be the 3rd wheel. Why? Springbok and Kiwi sides go hammer and tongs at each other. They blend brute force and sublime skill, and the team on the day which gets the balance right tends to come out trumps.
No bullshit with employing a sideline technician to try and break the other teams lineout codes, no shady tactics to cover up front row incompetence, and definitely no covering up by national governing bodies of known drug cheats, only to let them onto the field of play 1 month later.
Just good, hard rugby without trying to bend the law in a distasteful way. The team that walks off the field with the most points is always the team that deserved to win.
It may not seem like it but I actually have huge respect for some aspects of Wallaby rugby. Its just a pity they sour everything by trying to manipulate and schlenter every game even when they are completely outpayed.
Some would call it *creative thinking*. I call it *lame*
10 Jul 2006, 02:19 am
My apologies to Phil Kearns It was Dan Crowley’s comment that I was refering to… Sorry
10 Jul 2006, 05:02 am
Oh now we all understand why Jake wants a heavy pack, jip me knows why now.
10 Jul 2006, 05:49 am
Ha I also read that link and it is so funny how different people in their own country’s see it. The boks have an advantage in the front row but we [Ozzie's] are still superior f.f.s give me a break their front row is still kak and they know it. Oh and Carl Hayman is the best prop in the world ha ha .
10 Jul 2006, 06:40 am
I am rooting for South Africa this weekend against the Bats… Sorry Wallabies. Hopefully Akona Ndugane partners up with Breyton Paulse if the rumors are true and the everlastingingly diligent Joe Van Niekerk plays at number eight. Ndugane is a player with a lot of potential, young, electic, and will have a lot to prove… He’ll definately play well! The venemous veteran Breyton Paulse will sting any winger that opposes him from the Wallabies, the only downfall would have to be the fly half! What game will you be playing this weekend sir? As for the forward pack!!!… Now full of aggression… Looking forward to the injury tally for the Wallabies next weekend?
Mat Rogers, Stephen Larkham, Sterling Mortlock, Chris Latham, Jeremy Paul?
10 Jul 2006, 07:08 am
Carl Hayman, are you serious? A prop playing in a winning team dosen’t make him the best prop!
Andrew Sheridan, Sylvain Marconnet, Fabio Ongaro or Andrea Lo Cicero, Os Du Rant, Rodrigo Roncero? Carl Haymans is one of the best… But highly unlikely to be the best!
10 Jul 2006, 07:13 am
Pompies,
I am sorry, but I did not think the comment about Hayman was that humorous. IMO, he has proved himself against all opposition.
10 Jul 2006, 07:48 am
pompies and Newks
I’m probably a bit biased, but I’d be interested in your opinions as to if there IS a prop performing better than Carl Hayman at present.
You’ve given a list there Newks, would you like to put it in an order of ranking?
Just please don’t put Sheridan at the top – or above Hayman – after last year’s AB’s / England year.
10 Jul 2006, 07:51 am
Post 134 I think we will find out in two weeks time if Os Durant agrees with you.
10 Jul 2006, 07:57 am
Post 133 yip one win against the wobbles and all of a sudden they are the best in all that they do nough said.
10 Jul 2006, 09:38 am
Pompies,
people have been saying he is the best in the world for some time. He began to show this dominance in 04 vs France in Paris, where the AB scrum dominated.
I know that Os has iconic/cult-like status in SA, and yes, head to head over a 3 test series (assuming they play in every game, which is highly improbable for the AB’s) will give a better indication of their merits, but the AB scrum did have it over the Boks last year, and if we can use the French test as any indication, Os’ best years seem to be behind him (no disrespect intended). Although in saying that, he does seem to be the type of player who can pull the big one out when it is needed.
Speaking of props, what about Tony Woodcock? I have heard commentators/ex-front rowers from Aus. and SA say that he is the best loosehead in the world.
Does this mean that the AB’s possibly have the 2 best props in the world?
10 Jul 2006, 10:17 am
Loose and tight? Yeah rite now you really pulling the piss. LOL.
10 Jul 2006, 11:14 am
But wait there’s more pompies
Mealamu must be the best hooker in the world now as well!
Since the AB’s did NOT get their butts kicked that must be I don’t have to disappear fro 2 months now does it Pompies?!
10 Jul 2006, 11:52 am
1st Rank: Sylain Marconnet
2nd Rank: Os Du Rant
3rd Rank: Carl Hayman / Rondrigo Roncero / Os Du Rant
4th Rank: Rondrigo Roncero
5th Rank: Pieter De Villiers
6th Rank:
7th Rank: Andrea Ci Cero
8th Rank: Phil Vickery
9th Rank: Andrew Sheridan
10th Rank: Rodney Blake
? Christian Califano, Cobus Visagie, John Hayes, Tony Woodcock,
10 Jul 2006, 18:34 pm
103 pompies…you said that Aus was going to win before the game!!!
11 Jul 2006, 06:19 am
Mate after the hit man pissed on the turf I changed my mind.
11 Jul 2006, 06:30 am
Ricane the Ab’s are not #1 for nothing but there is only one team that has beaten them lately and came quiet close in the land of the long white cloud. At least the Boks put up a fight. That Ab’s team is getting very Pacific, I don’t no if you have noticed but it can only benefit world rugby.
11 Jul 2006, 06:40 am
Post 142 thread: Kiwis snub opener post 68.
11 Jul 2006, 14:02 pm
The Irish’ evaluation of AB’s & Ozzies having played both were obviously misleading. It’s impossible to turn a team around in a year having been clobbered by all & sundry in 2005, Connolly’s swipe at the officials should not detract from their major weaknesses upfront, & despite quality line-out jumpers & effective loose trio, experience/class in the backline the Ozzies were just not good enough. The were outplayed in every respect.
11 Jul 2006, 18:07 pm
Kamate, Crusaders 2001
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