Judging Monty
17 Jul 2006
Is Percy Montgomery the greatest fullback to have played for the Springboks?
This is the question SA Rugby magazine put to HO de Villiers, Gysie Pienaar and Andre Joubert – three other No 15s who excelled in the green and gold. Get the new issue, on sale this week, to find out where they put Monty in the pecking order, why they don’t think Jake White’s game plan suits him, and why the Boks would struggle without him.
Also in the mag:
– Schalk’s Bok burnout: Statistical evidence that Schalk has been overplayed at Test level
– Pierre Spies: “I want to be the greatest loose forward in the world”
– Danie Rossouw breaks new ground
– Greg Rawlinson on learning the haka and the prospect of doing it against the Boks
– Dan Vickerman: “I will always be South African”
– Champs to chumps: The demise of England rugby
– Special report on the use of impact players
– We visit Butch James’s new Waterfront apartment
– Keegan Daniel on the U21 World Championship
– Ross Skeate: “I’ve done a lot to get to this point”
– Columns from Naas, Keo and Mallett
89 Comments
17 Jul 2006, 11:45 am
Hell no – that honour would have to go to the “Rolls Royce” – Andre Joubert…
17 Jul 2006, 11:46 am
No, Chris Latham took him on a 30m piggbyback during an attempted tackle on saturday.
17 Jul 2006, 11:46 am
He is kinda good.
17 Jul 2006, 11:46 am
I like the one on Spies – hahaha! He sure proved it on Saturday.
17 Jul 2006, 11:49 am
HO De Villiers the best
17 Jul 2006, 11:49 am
NO WAY but he is still one of our better players in the modern era.
17 Jul 2006, 11:49 am
How do you mean is he????
Percy & greatest in the same sentence?
17 Jul 2006, 11:50 am
What about Johan Heunis and Andre Joubert ? Both were much better than Percy
17 Jul 2006, 11:52 am
REMOVE Alister Coetzee!!!!!
17 Jul 2006, 11:52 am
The best fulbacks that played for SA:
HO de Villiers.
Johan Heunis.
Andre Joubert.
Gysie Pienaar.
17 Jul 2006, 11:53 am
Percy the greatest??? Naaa …
Sure his won us a few games, but he has lost us much more .. Gysie, Jouber & Heunis were much beter.
17 Jul 2006, 11:53 am
Lets look at this objectively….no
17 Jul 2006, 11:54 am
Percy is behind Joubert, Heunis and Gysie Pienaar.
That is the guys I saw.
My dad swears that HO de Villiers and Lionel Wislon were better then all of them.
17 Jul 2006, 11:54 am
With the 2nd highest test cap count in Bok history, he still routinely drops the high ball…
HO and Jouba didn’t flake out like that.
17 Jul 2006, 11:54 am
Thats the prob with rugby magazines, articles are written weeks before publication and then in the interim something shocking happens and makes the articles look ridiculous.
Lets use Sports Illustrated’s last mag as an example – where they talked about Jaco being the best flyhalf we have. And how good the rush defence system is! BWAHAHAHA, well that is a joke now.
Then this new SA Rugby mag – talking about Spies wanting to be the best.
17 Jul 2006, 11:54 am
Simon,
How can’t you ask JHeunis for his opinion – have you ever seen him play? Streets above the rest, i tell you.
17 Jul 2006, 11:55 am
hell no percy is not the greatest bok fullback, that has to go to andre “the rolls royce” joubert.
perhaps if jouba had stayed on a little longer and mentored monty a little more monty would have turned into the finished article, i firmly believe that monty would have been a far better player today if he could have learned more from jouba.
17 Jul 2006, 11:56 am
Are you under the influence of the finest Jamaican Tobacco?????
Percy has been a loyal servant of SA rugby and a very solid player,but a great he most certainly isn’t and I would not include him in the company of Joubert/Heunis/Pienaar etc.These were players with that X factor that make them greats.
17 Jul 2006, 11:57 am
nick,
take a deep breath and give him time – you’ll be surpised. Spies will become a monster. This kid is no showpony and he lives for the game. He has got everything – give him time i say again.
17 Jul 2006, 11:57 am
when is ross skeate supposed to be fit to play again?
17 Jul 2006, 11:58 am
Allister Coetzee is a typical SA politican, they cant do the job properly, yet dont have the decency to resign.
Fire Coetzee and replace with Campese.
17 Jul 2006, 11:58 am
Is Percy the worst fullback under the high ball to ever have played for the Boks?
17 Jul 2006, 12:00 pm
you can’t mention percy in the same company as jouba, pienaar and heunis. i rate calla scholtz higher than percy.
17 Jul 2006, 12:02 pm
lol cab (2), I don’t think Latham realised immediately that he was carrying a passenger. He only stopped when Percy insisted that he wanted to get off.
17 Jul 2006, 12:02 pm
oh don’t worry I’ve just read the other article, which answers my question about ross skeate
17 Jul 2006, 12:03 pm
For more then a year we hear that percy has won us a game (or kept us in the game) with his kicking. Well on Sat there were no penalties to kick. Apart kicking does he bring anyhing to the game. He is useless under high ball (they even named a drop of the high ballon after his name), he is no where in defence and no where in attack. How on earth anyone can consider to be gtreat?
17 Jul 2006, 12:05 pm
Gavin Johnson was better than Percy – solid at the back & pretty pacy on attck too….
If he hadn’t had to compete vs Jouba, I’m sure he would have been capped more!
17 Jul 2006, 12:13 pm
sjambok 22,
maby not the worst, but definately the biggest wuzz???
Hel hy is ‘n bangat onder die hoe bal.
17 Jul 2006, 12:17 pm
PLEEZ MAN THE ONLY THING JOUBA WAS GOOD AT WAS BEING CONSEVATIVLY CONSISTANT. VERY GOOD PLAYER …YES BUT STILL VERY OVER-RATED
DONT WORRY IM READY FOR THE BACKLASH
17 Jul 2006, 12:20 pm
ice is probably going to suggest Justin Swart…
17 Jul 2006, 12:20 pm
I subscribed to the bloody mag more than two months ago and still haven’t received one! What the hell is wrong with the ********!
17 Jul 2006, 12:20 pm
Sister Monty only had more opportunities than his predecessors. He might not be the worst, but is not nearly the best.
Heunis, Johnson, Joubert, V Rensburg, Gysie, HO and even Pierre Edwards are all way better than him.
I would rate Heunis as the ultimate.
17 Jul 2006, 12:24 pm
Stan.
Don’t know a Pierre Edwards. What province did he play for?
17 Jul 2006, 12:26 pm
HO De Villiers was the best, defined the way the modern fullback plays the game!
17 Jul 2006, 12:26 pm
Who else is there at fullback currently? No competition for Percy, so no incentive to raise his game.
NZ have McDonald & Muliana, Aus have Latham, Gerrard & Shepherd all capable of doing the job…
All we have is a green Pietersen.
Always liked the look of Roets, but don’t know if he could make the step up?
17 Jul 2006, 12:28 pm
Lets not forget what the old dog has done for the Bokke.
That said.Time to go now before he gets humilated any further.
17 Jul 2006, 12:28 pm
You cannot judge Spies on one game in which the Boks were murdered. Heyneke Meyer says he’s the best player he’s ever coached and will become the best Bok ever. Read the mag.
As for Percy … we are not saying he’s the greatest – we are simply debating the topic and asking the experts for their opinions.
17 Jul 2006, 12:28 pm
Roets chip-and-charge? Roets up-and-under? Nope, sorry, not in the green and gold.
17 Jul 2006, 12:30 pm
One name kept popping up as an able replacement for Jaco: Brent. Same name could be mentioned when looking for an able fullback.
17 Jul 2006, 12:31 pm
Why would you ask three rugby players if someone else is better than them when all three plus the rest of the country know that they a hundred times better? I don’t understand, are you testing there modesty or what are you trying to do?
17 Jul 2006, 12:31 pm
Agree with Simon on Spies, SA has a none to proud record of playing great talent to early , watch them flounder and then drop them, where other countries will persevere and develop the talent.Done it more than once in the last few years!
17 Jul 2006, 12:32 pm
Jorrie Muller will be my nr 15.
17 Jul 2006, 12:32 pm
sampioenman
(40) short memory? you surely didnt foerget loftus and the abs, did you?
17 Jul 2006, 12:33 pm
foerget = forget. thick fingers!!!
17 Jul 2006, 12:35 pm
Well Sampi,
looks like our depth is so ****** that Jake will forced to hand out the jersey to Brent,Ruan and errrrr Luke.sooner rather than later.
Either that or call up the UK Dads army Bok squad.(Vos,Visagie,Boer,Coetzie and Snyman)
17 Jul 2006, 12:35 pm
@simon: what exactly has heyneke meyer achieved as a coach beyond a second rate national competition? did you see the U21 final where spies was also ineffectual? he is nowhere near the league of smith, waugh, mccaw etc. and never will be with the laughable lack of professionalism and management skills in SA. i shudder to think how good schalk would have been if he had moved to new zealand, australia, france or england after school or even at school.
17 Jul 2006, 12:36 pm
or the Gasman…
Worst possible Bok backline?
15- Mini-Slaptjips
14- Jorrie Muller
13- Gcobani Bobo
12- Danie Van Schalkwyk
11- Gasman
10- Jacobel vd West.
9 – ???
17 Jul 2006, 12:38 pm
i have just seen the headline on the mag: ‘i want to be the best loose forward in the world’ pierre spies. well then my son, move abroad because even the most average loose forward who gets properly coached and managed and isn’t allowed to eat at the frickin’ spur every night will be better than you.
17 Jul 2006, 12:38 pm
i have just seen the headline on the mag: ‘i want to be the best loose forward in the world’ pierre spies. well then my son, move abroad because even the most average loose forward who gets properly coached and managed and isn’t allowed to eat at the frickin’ spur every night will be better than you.
17 Jul 2006, 12:41 pm
50
17 Jul 2006, 12:41 pm
50
17 Jul 2006, 12:45 pm
Soda,
……?
17 Jul 2006, 12:46 pm
Percy aka Johnny Bravo is over the hill and part of the backline problem.
Pick Pietersen or anybody else.
Don’t blame Spies for the fact that the coach picked him out of position, Joe v Niekerk out of position and no fetcher!
17 Jul 2006, 12:53 pm
The best must be Andre Joubert, although I am not old enough to have seen Gysie etc play, but Joubert was a hero.
Hope JP Pietersen fulfills his potential and becomes one of the greats, possibly the greatest.
Even WP’s Pietersen is brilliant
17 Jul 2006, 12:54 pm
When Jorrie comes back as fullback you will all eat your words!
17 Jul 2006, 12:55 pm
#47 Quinnyshark, who is Mini-slaptjips? That is an awful backline, but Greef might get in there and also Adrian Jacobs
17 Jul 2006, 13:01 pm
Exactly. Spies hasn’t play No 8 since high school.
17 Jul 2006, 13:01 pm
Percy is the greatest ever!!!
17 Jul 2006, 13:11 pm
Bokfan,
Mini-Slaptjips is Chris Rossouw, who somehow managed to get a call up a few years back…
Hmmm, forgot about Greeff & was close between Jacobs & Bobo!
17 Jul 2006, 13:18 pm
Given the current apparent state of Bok rugby, I would advise against publishing a “Champs to Chumps” article now.
17 Jul 2006, 13:22 pm
Percy is my *****
17 Jul 2006, 13:24 pm
King Percy!!
17 Jul 2006, 13:42 pm
Andre Joubert is the greatest to have ever played for the boks end of story
17 Jul 2006, 13:55 pm
joubert not that i have seen the others that played before him. montgomery doesn’t have an attacking edge that other fullbacks have.
spies thinks he is zinzan brooke by kicking all that ball away
17 Jul 2006, 14:16 pm
Heunis was the most complete full back ever in SA.
Fast, strong and a very good runner. Prolific kicker with both feet and brilliant tactical play.
17 Jul 2006, 14:19 pm
HO sou floreer het in hedenhaagse rugby, hy het moderne heelagterspel in SA geskep (1972-1977). Met daai paar groot bobene en reguit hardloopstyl kon hy dwarsdeur n pak voorspelers hardloop. Die veiligste hande op aarde.
Na hom is dit Jouba en dan Gysie, wat my betref. HO en Jouba was spesialis heelagters, Heunis was ewe tuis op vleuel. As ek reg onthou het beide hy en broer Chris vleuel gespeel vir OP (1980.
So, n man moet ver terugdink om beter as Percy te kry(gee die duiwel wat hom toekom!)
17 Jul 2006, 14:26 pm
LMAO katman (24), ja we probably shouldn’t take the piss, at least he made an attempted tackle, which was a damn sight better than the rest.
Jacques Fourie excluded. Solid as they come.
17 Jul 2006, 14:27 pm
13 Capeflatsboy. Jou pa onthou goed!! Maar hy sal ook onthou dat Lionel Wilson alles in ‘slow motion’ gedoen het. Hy was bestendig ja, maar darem te stadig, hy het n man se senuwees opgemaak met daai jakkalsdraffie van hom. Die ‘Rots van Gibraltar’ onder die hoe bal, dit was hy wel.
17 Jul 2006, 14:34 pm
Whos going to buy a mag that asks such stupid dumb arsed questions as that.
HO Gysie and Joubert must of pissed their pants when asked the question
17 Jul 2006, 14:44 pm
Percy will drop 7 out of 10 high balls
17 Jul 2006, 14:47 pm
Good one budacat
17 Jul 2006, 15:09 pm
I find it quite amusing how many of you seem to recall Andre Joubert as some kind of flawless player that never let his team down.
You must have very short memories to not remember the dismal games (and seasons) that Andre Joubert had.
In losing teams that performed poorly, Andre Joubert looked just as bad as Percy did on Saturday.
And if you’re going to critisize Percy’s defence then you really shouldn’t be mentioning Andre Joubert, because I dont think there has ever been a worse defensive fullback in Springbok history.
I’ll never forget Andre Joubert leaking tackles in countless games because of poor defensive play and a lack of courage/commitment in the tackle.
Reality check people – Andre Joubert had a few good seasons just like Percy, but when Joubert was bad….he was VERY bad…
Percy Montgomery looked bad on Saturday just as every other player in the team did. When you’re constantly on the back foot, under preasure, and trailing by 20 or more points, you’re always going to try overcompensate, and this is just going to lead to even worse play.
It wouldn’t have mattered who was playing fullback on Saturday.
Also keep in mind that in a position like Fullback you are more exposed than any other player and you’ll always be forced to clean up the mess made by other players – so when your wings, centres, flanks, etc. are missing tackles you’re going to be left with the job.
Percy puts his heart into every match he plays and he might not be perfect (critisism of him under the high-ball is fair), but he’s still the best 15 we have, and when the rest of the team does their job and he can play his own game, then he consistently delivers.
Dont have such short memories and stop trying to romantisize players of the past era as though they were perfect.
They weren’t – they were just as flawed and they never played at the same level of profesional competition as today. Gysie, HO, Andre….they would have all looked bad on Saturday.
Cheers
17 Jul 2006, 15:20 pm
thanks for that neil montgomery, when is boetie retiring ?
17 Jul 2006, 15:27 pm
Well said Neil.
I agree with you 100%.
Monty has played every position in the backline,was coached at school by HO De Villiers and has been chosen by every Springbok coach if my memory serves me correct.
Form is temporary,class is permanent.
And as Danie Craven would say..check the scoreboard and see how many points he has scored for the Springboks.
17 Jul 2006, 15:50 pm
Neil, one of the best ever comments I have ever read to shut up the anti-Percy, pro Roets crowd.
17 Jul 2006, 16:07 pm
TGHM QD !!!
17 Jul 2006, 16:07 pm
The answer is NO he aint the best.
17 Jul 2006, 16:41 pm
No!!!!! Percy`s one of Jake White`s GAT GABBA`s!!:smile:
17 Jul 2006, 16:52 pm
He’s the blondest.
17 Jul 2006, 17:28 pm
en waarskynlik die domste…
17 Jul 2006, 18:59 pm
All you guys forget about oorle Gerbrand Grobler, now there was a complete fullback! RIP.
17 Jul 2006, 19:43 pm
I am the best Fullback we ever had!
I played outside centre for the thirds and came on once as fullback for the seconds.
I was unstoppable.
The opposing 10 kicked the ball downfield, I gathered on the second bounce.
I sidestepped, I swerved, I Handed Off and I evaded a tackle.
I beat a few Props and Locks for pace and chrashed throug the tackle of the scrummie.
Then I passed.
Out.
17 Jul 2006, 22:52 pm
Geez must be a **** mag to ask such a dumb question on it’s front cover. Percy can kick, but is very average elsewhere. Joubert was the greatest and built like a perfect # 15!
18 Jul 2006, 16:29 pm
Joubert also had his flaws!
Monty was one of the main reasons for the Sharks success in the S14 & sure he wasn’t in best kicking form but 7 tries is speak for themselves even if they are intercepted.
Monty is not being properly
I haven’t seen monty get a proper ball in a backline move at speed since the first scotland test when he scored!
I’ll vote for monty…
19 Jul 2006, 12:23 pm
Is Pissy the greatest 15 ever for SA – Hell no!!
Is Pissy the gayest 15 ever for SA – Hell yes!!
24 Jul 2006, 13:59 pm
Mag sucks (This is my sour grapes taking over)
Simon, why do you only put Grrr, London shark etc in the mag….is our opinion that dull?
If I dont see my name in the next issue, I will stop buying it!!!
2 Aug 2006, 10:24 am
Percy seems to be only choice at moment, would have liked to see some one else tried vs World XV.
Pity Jake has no Faith in Brent, he worlds best finnisher! Percy best Kicker by far, byut Finnisher, he is not.
Jake listen to great rugby minds, Pick Brent
7 Aug 2006, 19:49 pm
Monty wouldn’t be afganistan’s best ever fullback
31 Aug 2006, 12:57 pm
jake, open your eyes, johan roets is the best fullback ever, even for a bulls player
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