Stofile stuck in past
26 Jul 2007
Keo, in his Independent Newspaper column, asks why Minister of Sport Makhenkesi Stofile is willing to accept the Proteas as representative of a new South Africa, but not the Springboks?
Stofile remains adamant the Springbok World Cup squad does not represent South Africa as a new country.
He said it was proof South African rugby was stuck in the past.
Springbok coach Jake White included one ethnic black African and five coloured players in his World Cup squad of 30 – a number government officials said was not enough.
Rewind a few months to the cricket World Cup. The Proteas receive the following message: “Go out there and represent South Africa with dignity. We believe in you and we will be behind you as you stand toe-to-toe with Australia next week.” Yes, the same Stofile sent this message to a cricket side that did not contain one ethnic black player in the starting XI.
Staying with cricket, government officials and cricket administrators lauded the squad composition ahead of the World Cup. Seven players of colour in 15 was viewed as a dramatic breakthrough for transformation, but only one of those seven players was black African – Makhaya Ntini.
The window-dressing exercise at the cricket World Cup was completed when Roger Telemachus did not play a game, Loots Bosman played in one and the first choice slow bowler Robin Peterson bowled less overs than part-time spinner and captain Graeme Smith.
Prior to the tournament Smith told the media he believed in every player’s ability, but he obviously didn’t, otherwise Peterson would have bowled more. Telemachus did not bowl a ball in the West Indies, Peterson bowled just 72 and Bosman, picked as a batsman, never batted. Cricket’s transformation of the squad was a lie, which the government was willing to embrace.
Transformation in South African rugby since unification in 1991 has been a farce. We all know that, but it does not start with the selection of the national squad. A coach can only choose from the players available and in this light the squad is very representative of South African rugby’s player demographics.
This past weekend only seven ethnic black Africans started in eight premier division Currie Cup sides. Only five of these players are eligible to play for the Boks. When it comes to black African selection White is effectively picking from a pool of less than 10 and not 40 million who make up South Africa’s population.
The government should be condemning South African rugby’s failure to transform and should be demanding change at a domestic level. Instead all the criticism is irrationally levelled at the national squad. Cricket, no better than rugby when it comes to transformation, never feels the wrath of the Sports Minister or his colleagues. Why?
Is it because cricket was traditionally seen as an English sport and rugby as that of the Afrikaner? Does cricket get away with it because of the so-called white liberal association and rugby gets caned because of so-called Afrikaans conservatives?
If South African sport is to be transformed and representative of a new country then the sports ministry’s attitude has to be consistent to all sports, including cricket and soccer.
If Stofile believed so much in a cricket team devoid of black African representation, why can he not believe in a rugby team accused of a similar failing?
The answer could be that he, like rugby, is stuck in the past.
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240 Comments
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26 Jul 2007, 08:11 am
Is he Stofile stuck in there?
I thought this thread was gone…
26 Jul 2007, 08:11 am
Stofile is from the Eastern Cape, which is rugby country, and cricket, to a lesser extent. Hence, he’s more sensitive about what’s happening in rugby. He was also a rugby administrator.
But I agree that, as Minister, he should be consistent and be more focused on getting the grassroots infrastructure transformed/developed, than be quibbling about the national team selections.
26 Jul 2007, 08:12 am
lol It should be
26 Jul 2007, 08:16 am
Well said keo. transformation should be so much more than just about artificial social engineering. It has to be about breaking down barriers-racial, sexual, monetary or ortherwise, that exist and serve to keep individuals from competing in a fair environment. And you can only successfully do that from the bottom up. And yes those barriers exist,but we have to be honest with each other-honest about the nuances in this country and the different gifts we have. Have you ever heard any complaints about the swimming team being untransformed? And that is a lily white sport. No artificial social engineering possible there.
26 Jul 2007, 08:23 am
Read this story on IOL yesterday…very well said Keo.
Do you think we can expect a response from our Minister?
26 Jul 2007, 08:36 am
I am sick of this **** from you Keo! There is no transformation in the sport, period! You and your gang keep feeding us rubbish about “the small pool of black players Jake has available to him!” yet you never mention how those entrusted with grooming these players at school level and provincial level! You are the same dude that lauded Jake for a representative under 21 team he coached, what happened to those players? There is this ceiling in rugby for black players that the great Keo will never dare expose instead you choose to feed us garbage rubbishing government and the Minister in particular. You would do well to remember what they say about people that live in glass houses, boet!!!
26 Jul 2007, 08:38 am
One of the major reasons as is with everything is money. There is more money to be made in rugby than cricket. Would be good to see transformation in soccer too. And now with the new rule that states that every olympic team has to be 50% transformed or they can’t go. I feel sorry for our swimming team then.
26 Jul 2007, 08:40 am
Oi #6, please tell us a little more about that ceiling…
26 Jul 2007, 08:42 am
#6 Yes, please do enlighten us Azza.
26 Jul 2007, 08:50 am
Azza there is a saying in afrikaans that goes: “moenie n ding ryp druk nie”
26 Jul 2007, 08:52 am
Good, and true article Keo.
26 Jul 2007, 08:53 am
Azza …your Minister Stofile is an idiot.Keo is right. You guys are still living in the past.South Africa has become a sporting joke because of your quota system. Why not embrace and get on with it on merit. Black folk have had 15 years of access to every facility.So the youngsters of today Black,White,Pink,Yellow whatever, have had the best thats on offer. Perhaps it is your reverse Apartheid thats a problem. Get that f…ng chip of your shoulder buddy.
26 Jul 2007, 08:53 am
Azza, go get a tan in your glass house boet. Keo just pointed out the reality of the situation. It is not his or JW’s fault. If I remember correctly Hanyani Shimangi was very much part of JW’s squad from 2004 – 2006 before he got a string of injuries. Solly Tybilika also had a chance but underperformed and had a few injuries. Tonderai Chavanga also got injured. Chilliboy is another one that got injured. That is already 4 ethnic black players that cost themselves a ticket to the world cup by underperforming or getting injured at crucial stages. JW had all of them in the squad at some stage. If anyone is to blame it is the ethnic black players themselves.
26 Jul 2007, 08:56 am
What, every team has to be 50% transformed. Racism, quite simply. You cant base transformation on the number of black people in a team, you base it on the number of black people that compete on an even footing to make that team.
Anyways Azza, you miss the point, Keo is saying that more must be done at provincial level, you cant blame white when he only has a handful of black players to choose from.
Of course the way he treated Julies compared to Olivier might appear dodge, but thats just white being all defence, defence, defence.
Anyway i find it annoying how white sport is the target of transformation but not black sport, its just so racist.
Perhaps I’ve got the semantics wrong here but I thought transformation was all about equal opportunity for all citizens, not giving jobs/positions to a black person because they are black. I’m all for true transformation believe me but I cant support racism.
26 Jul 2007, 09:02 am
I still reckon it is matter of changing perseptions. How many black kids would still rather play soccer than rugby and vice versa. A hell of a lot is being done to change that and I believe it is starting to happen. Maybe I am wrong but these like all things take time.
26 Jul 2007, 09:02 am
#14 like the last paragraph.So true.
26 Jul 2007, 09:08 am
I am so sick of this to be honest.
Keo it is a good article but it saying the same thing using different words.
Maybe we should demand transformation from our government concerning crime in SA to represent the demographics of good law-abiding citizens in SA, i.e. tax payers to that of criminals.
For every book and law they throw at rugby we can throw 10 back as to the responsibility of government to its citizen’s as found in our constitution and many international charters from the international community SA is part of.
Someone mentioned glass houses and that is exactly what this is, the people doing all the talk are the people responsible for this transformation in rugby. They obviously do not know what they are doing so maybe its time we demand something from these so-called leaders – to piss off.
26 Jul 2007, 09:11 am
Nie eens iets waaroor ek my mond sal oopmaak nie. Want ek sal net lelikke goette se van die mense. Hulle target net rugby. FFS , hoekom kyk hulle nie na ander sport kodes nie.
26 Jul 2007, 09:15 am
LoL @ Stofile – this guy enjoys a crust at the taxpayers expense. BJ Vorster – someone is stealing your clothes, eat your heart out!
26 Jul 2007, 09:15 am
Someone mentioned something very interesting to me the other night.
In Namibia apartheid was around for about 30 years before the international community basically forced SA (and effectively Namibia) to change which is all good of course.
But Namibia, who has gained its independence before SA released Madiba and held democratic elections, has now been going on as a normal society for about 20 years (just short), so basically a decade short of the time apartheid was the norm.
Now exactly the same is done as was done in apartheid in too many respects and the country itself is no-where close to being a ‘normal’ society (whatever that is).
Transformation, like apartheid puts a certain class of person in a ‘comfortable’ position, whites were comfortable during apartheid, now its switched, point is, nothing in society really changes other than the colour of the skin of the guy in charge making the laws and rules.
He said in 10 years from now the international community will step in and demand law changes to BEE and transformation as it is abnormal in society same as they demanded apartheid being put to an end because it too was abnormal.
Then the cycle just repeats itself…
Welcome to Africa.
26 Jul 2007, 09:17 am
The All Africa Games in Algiers has been dubbed the All Africa Fun and Games by some South African participants, but parts of the fun have apparently not been all that funny.
Speaking from Algiers, Manase Makwela, the media liaison officer of the department of sports and recreation, confirmed yesterday that there had certainly been a spate of high and low jinks at the games – which Makhenkesi Stofile, the minister of sport, said earlier were not be treated contemptuously by South Africans just because they were taking place in Africa.
The minister had said this, however, before attending one of the games’ medal ceremonies at which Die Stem, the old national anthem, rather than Nkosi sikelel’ iAfrika, the new and official one, had blared out over the loudspeakers as two South African swimmers received their medals.
It seems that the Algerian organisers felt our anthem was too long,” said Makwela, “so they truncated it.
“But they cut off, so to speak, the wrong end. So the minister was there when ‘Uit die blou van onse hemel’ and nothing else was played.”
LoL @ Stofile!
26 Jul 2007, 09:27 am
These comments are stuck in the past.
Hamster wheel!
26 Jul 2007, 09:30 am
Ag ons weet almal hoekom die dom mense daar is om sports te beheer.
26 Jul 2007, 09:31 am
I have a question which I need answered.
Beast Mtawarira and Brian Mujati are from Zimbabwe, correct?
Have they been capped or will they eventually qualify for the Springboks ala Chavanga?
Can anyone help me?
26 Jul 2007, 09:39 am
Talking about glass houses I can’t help noticing that most detractors from applying some serious development here are not even in the country, sounds like a whole lot of argumentation coming from way over yonder, how in God’s name can they really perceive or understand wtf is really going down when even those where its happening beneath their noses don’t?
26 Jul 2007, 09:40 am
People outside rugby will never change rugby. Rugby will only ever change if those involved want to change. ” Transformation” should not be about adding black players to a culture thats foreign to most.
Rugby needs to move on and embrace that we have a tottly differnt type of culture to create in rugby.
Tradition is lovely but someone created tradition and this a the time to create new traditions.
As for the goverment in rugby they can go suck on on something.
Rather then we complain about meddling of politicians lets ignore them. If we don’t give them the time of day they will not meddle.
Take it from a black person. No one wants quotas and no one wants this “transformation” that people are talking about. People are interested in integration rather.
26 Jul 2007, 09:43 am
26 Sorry about the typing errors I am a bit busy.
26 Jul 2007, 09:44 am
Hello skopskiet/skunk
Yes, when tragic events occur like that accident this week, I again realise that we leave this life the same…why not live it the same while we can.
Eishh boys, I don’t know…
26 Jul 2007, 09:47 am
Kom ons geniet maar die rugby terwyl ons nog kan. Lekker braai , biltong , droewors , dop. Volgende jaar sal niemand meer rugby wil gaan kyk nie.
Kyk hoeveel spelers verloor ons al klaar. Baie spelers weet hulle gaan nie volgende jaar kans kry om weer vir die bokke te speel nie. Daai outjie op skool wat sy hart uitspeel weet nou al die toekoms lyk bleuk. Kom ons gaan speel eerder rugby oorsee waar ek gekies gaan word omdat ek goed speel.
Dis ‘n fooookop. En dit gaan net erger raak
26 Jul 2007, 09:49 am
Mooi gese too true Pietman, its a sweet short journey from here to the next stop and the curtain comes down on this stage act sooner than we are prepared to realize.
26 Jul 2007, 09:51 am
Skunk,
You mention traditions need changing, it is quite interesting.
Not that I disagree but to me it is very easy to learn something new – the near impossible though is to un-learn something.
I think people are constantly trying to bring new ‘traditions’ to rugby, but for that to work we need to get rid of the old traditions somewhat – hence un-learning what we have learned.
That goes for both sides of the fence – the ones that were hard-done by and the ones that benefit from the old ways or times – we all have something to un-learn before we can move forward.
But as we see on a daily basis, people have a tough time of letting go.
26 Jul 2007, 09:51 am
Malnourished, impoverished black boys are more likely to find employment with a professional football club, because their physical deficiencies are not exposed there (however, when they play for Bafana, they get pushed around by stronger Europeans and West Africans). In rugby, such guys are eliminated quite early on. Hence, we cannot REALLY talk about “merit selection” when so many potential players don’t get even good basic nutrition. Our “merit” is restricted to the pool of those who’ve made it past the Darwinian selection process in the school system. The Government shoud be building sports academies where promising sportschildren are given proper food, education, etc.
26 Jul 2007, 09:52 am
“Transformation” is also an archaic word for a woman’s wig.
Stofile is pissed at the lack of decent hairpieces in SA Rugby.
26 Jul 2007, 09:54 am
Its only the boys within Sarsu and perhaps some small groups scattered around that are really doing a lot towards a real go forward change action, I hope those with the mandates and backing at their disposal start to doing something meaningful too.
26 Jul 2007, 09:56 am
Good morning Piet.
I was chatting to mates about that whole thing. Its true a sad day in our rugby when the ranting of a lunatic overshadow such a tragic event.
It also tells you Keo is only concerned about hits then anything else.
It would have been nice as supporters we started a fund for the accident victims and maybe do something positive. instead of bickering about how may people of what color are in what squad.
26 Jul 2007, 09:57 am
There’s no such thing as a genuinely “equal opportunity” in any sport anywhere in any country on earth.
If it’s at school level, some kids get to attend a top “rugby school” such as Grey College or Christchurch Boys’ High, and other kids don’t. Their parents send them to the local school just down the road. The provincial selectors for the school rep side don’t even bother to watch his school’s first XV play. There’s no “equal opportunity” for rugby players at these two different schools and only an ignoramus pretends otherwise.
When you join a club, the same applies. Join the front-runner clubs in the leagues and you’ll have a far better chance of playing rep rugby than if you’re playing for the club conveniently down the road but who occupy a cellar-dweller spot on the log.
Life’s not equal. Life’s unfair. So get over it already.
26 Jul 2007, 09:58 am
Got to go get some materials for a job, see you round again. So long for now.
26 Jul 2007, 10:00 am
31 PA
In that lies my gripe with this whole debacle. We should not be trying to reinvent the wheel. what we need to make things work is already here. It needs effort and not people going on TV shouting to get a better position in government.
There some people out there with the brains and the skill to make things work. But that will only happen if we move away from trying to force things.
26 Jul 2007, 10:02 am
tackler, your little analogy conveniently ignores the fact that the inequality here in SA is perfectly split down racial lines. And you conveniently choose to ignore why this is the case.
This is because you are who you are and you believe what you believe. In modern SA such views are held in contempt.
26 Jul 2007, 10:06 am
Tackler
Again you seem to miss the point of the chat. You are right in what you say but its been said before and we all know that.
What we are talking about is what rugby can do to move on. Things in this world will always be unfair to someone.
26 Jul 2007, 10:07 am
No it isn’t perfectly split down racial lines. Even inside the SAME race you have a MUCH better chance of catching the Craven Week selectors’ eye if you’re in the Bishops 1st XV than, say, in the Westerford 1st XV.
These are two “rich white” schools in the same suburb, within walking distance of each other.
26 Jul 2007, 10:08 am
Methinks a lot of people on this blog have missed the point of keo’s article completely and have used this as a platform for spitting out vitriol. keo’s agrees that transformation is 1) necessary and 2) hasn’t taken place. his concern is that criticism of these failures is not evenly distributed across the sports codes.on that score, I agree. reading the last line of the article again, i realise why people are so confused-how in the world do you reconcile this article with the minister being stuck in the past, keo?
Also, when did it start being ok to label our leaders as “idiots” and “lunatics”? we might disagree with them, but my experience is that foreign nations are unlikely to respect us as a nation if we are the first ones to refer to our leaders as such. disagree with them. criticise them. but do it respectfully. it says a lot about our nation
26 Jul 2007, 10:09 am
Life is ALWAYS going to be unequal and unfair. Get used to it. That’s the way it will always be, no matter what you do to try to force equality on everyone.
26 Jul 2007, 10:11 am
Stofile!
Start living and let it be… the hero’s will rise and the fakes will slowly go into demise.
Let’s stalk about Eddie Andrews (although he is not “ethnicâ€); he had all the chances in the world yet he thanks the Springbok coach that gave him that chances by being constantly unfit, ill disciplined and lazy on the field. He thanks the WP union (that is in financial mayhem) that spends so much on him, in the same way.
Then there is Laurence Sephaka: he had all the chances too… and he did just the same as Eddie, well he was even worse mind you; he did not have the discipline to keep himself in shape at all!
The amounts of money spend on his conditioning and his enormous salary did not balance with what he gave back. We are talking of several hundreds of thousands of Rands and 4 times more money than the government was willing to give for development in SA Rugby as a whole…
Quinton Davids, he had opportunities he did not deserve but when he was given the chance to play in the WC he would cut corners in training and just didn’t do his part. Just typical: a person that did not do the hard grafting to get to the top… and he was found out. He was lazy as hell in training and just never there on the discipline front.
Then he went oversee and he quickly realized that he must “play†there, to get into the team (no token preference). So, he came back, got a lifeline from Rassie and again he sheettet on his own “stoep†again! All the ability in the world but just not the will to get out there and DO it!
Solly… need I say more? What a joke he has made of himself and the ones that invested so much in him… despite all the criticism. I suppose that in the end the criticism was justified!
The bottom-line is that if a player doesn’t do his part he will not make it. Clubs can not afford such charities and will rather invest in players that want too and can deliver!
The good players: Unions will pay big bucks to get those players but money can only buy what is for sale or available!
The mentioned players missed an opportunity to be an inspiration for the ones that will follow and they turned their backs on the ones that helped them to receive so easily! So sorry mate… they buggered themselves and their futures!
Don’t dare to start with the ethnic black topic… Why are the black players from Zim in SA teams? Don’t you think the coaches would love to have ethnic SA players in their teams? Funny thing though… all the foreign player come from countries where things in society goes very bad and if you want to get to the top you have to plan and WORK very hard. Those players don’t have discipline problems because they didn’t receive their opportunities on a “Silver Plateâ€; they WORKED for it!
You can “demand†your way to the top… but you will be measured and found wanting: the examples are scattered all over the papers… your name too!
26 Jul 2007, 10:11 am
Keo has consistently argued for equality of opportunity, and so have black sports people. However, when the measure used for assessing this – “representivity” – became a target, i.e., quota, it ceased to be a valid measure. We haven’t found another measure yet.
Equity – equality of opportunity – is not the same as equality (of outcomes).
Black and white boys who’ve gone to good rugby schools are just as likely to decide to become accountants, financial advisers (e.g., Andrew Aitken) or doctors, than rugby professionals. Or they’ll just “drop out” after school to have a good jol with girls and buddies. This dilutes the pool of black rugby players even more. Dof guys like Herschelle Gibbs and Percy Montgomery go to such good schools, then waste their expensive education by becoming rugby players. They would have done better (and much cheaper) by going to Bellville South High, like Bolla Conradie, or Scottsville High, like Adrian Jacobs.
26 Jul 2007, 10:12 am
Skunk dont try and talk to Tackler about moving on…
He wont get it.
And life is unfair – 20 years since WC glory proves that. Get over it because it will be another 4.
26 Jul 2007, 10:12 am
“Transformation” is NOT necessary and it will NEVER take place of its own accord OR by imposition by the ruling regime who have set it as their goal.
Pick teams on merit. Let the cards fall as they may.
26 Jul 2007, 10:12 am
#24 My understanding is as long as they take citizenship and after an effluxion of a certain amount of time, they may play for the Springboks. I dont think either of them played for Zimbabwe.
26 Jul 2007, 10:13 am
Tackler
I know this pointless but I will tell you this anyway.
Rugby in this country has a lot gain form integration. The biggest being that some of our coaches will start to think a bit more differently thus growth in our game look at it that way.
26 Jul 2007, 10:16 am
PA
All is not lost with. If he didn’t care about SA he would not here. He cares just much as the both of us. He tries really hard to hide that but if wade through the fake tough skin you see that.
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