Chabal sinks Poms
11 Aug 2007
A late try from Sebastien Chabal gave France a 21-15 victory against England at Twickenham.
The replacement loose forward, whose place in France’s World Cup squad was in doubt right up until its announcement, helped spark the Six Nations champions when England’s so-called “B team” seemed set to claim a massive psychological boost ahead of the World Cup. With France trailing 15-14 with five minutes to go, Chabal burst past fullback Nick Abendanon and then shrugged off winger Josh Lewsey to steal the win.
The World Cup holders, showing 11 changes from the side that smashed Wales 62-5, were expected to struggle against the best XV France could field (although star centre Yannick Jauzion withdrew just before kick-off and both regular props are injured). However, with eight places still up for grabs in Brian Ashton’s 30-man World Cup squad, the home players raised their game and more than matched Europe’s best.
Ollie Barkley put England on the board with an early penalty, but it was France who scored the first try when a well-timed, floated pass from David Skrela saw Fabien Pelous go over in the corner. It was a fitting return for the second rower, who played his 111th Test to equal the French record of Philippe Sella.
Skrela slotted a penalty, but two penalties from Barkley gave England a one-point lead after half an hour. Further penalties from the flyhalves made it 12-11 at the break.
Neither side gave an inch in the third quarter, with a drop goal from replacement Andy Gomarsall breaking the mini-deadlock. But Jean-Baptiste Elissalde kicked a penalty soon after taking the field to keep France within striking distance.
The Poms should have scored with 13 minutes remaining when Chabal went for the intercept and helped create the overlap out wide. The ball passed through three sets of English hands before replacement hooker Dimitri Szarzewski pulled off a try-saving tackle on Phil Vickery.
A minute later, France worked their way back into England’s 22 and Chabal went over to silence the Twickenham crowd.
England –Penalties: Ollie Barkley (4). Drop goal: Andy Gomarsall.
France – Tries: Fabien Pelous, Sebastien Chabal. Conversion: Jean-Baptiste Elissalde. Penalties: David Skrela, Ellissalde.
By Simon Borchardt
397 Comments
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12 Aug 2007, 16:48 pm
Id say our front 3 are allowed to rely on brawn, Bakkies and Danie could also fall into your brawn group, but I wouldnt say they dont have some technique at least.
12 Aug 2007, 17:01 pm
I can’t wait to hear Whitey’s comments tomorrow about the cheating whingeing Poms. Hands in the scrum, detached loosies, backs with the ethics of Habana.
12 Aug 2007, 18:30 pm
umbhoxoswede,
It was just an opinion, embellished by a few beers after a decent win yesterday. But fundamentally, I don’t think my comment was that far off the mark.
Your players rely so much on natural talent and natural physicality to get by, because most of the time it is enough. But when faced with an opponent that doesn’t get bullied, the lack of finesse and technique that i would expect is missing at times.
In terms of forward play, only the Bok lineout is technically where it should be for a team with the traditions of forward play like the Boks.
The Bok scrum is average in comparison to many others when you consider that it is a supposed strength of SA rugby. The maul has improved this year, but still isn’t consistenly good enough IMO (just for you JL1).
The backrow players as individuals have some good skills, but as a unit, aside from their undoubted physical attributes and energy levels, they lack the handling skills and spacial awareness of other nations. Spies has showed the potential, and only Skinstad has ever exhibited in the past the technique i am referring to.
The forwards as a whole have been hitting rucks too high which means max. force is not exerted to clear opposition players out the way. This means that more players are required which increases recycling time and ties up more players. Maybe your guys are too tall to get down that low? (joke btw). The Sharks and Bulls in the S14 showed that their forwards were capable of getting low in their tackle/ruck driving technique. Why is it so lacking when the same players don green and gold jerseys?
The Bok tackling technique has been very high this year and will get pinged in the world cup i feel. I can understand why the Boks are aiming for the chest region when tackling, as it is the best area to aim for to neutralise the offload. But it is risky, as Mortlock in the 3N found out.
Please don’t get me wrong. I think the Bok forwards are very talented players. Far more talented in general than my Scots (apart from the our loose trio who i think are pretty handy). My point is that the Scots have to work hard on technique to gain any advantage. We can’t rely solely on brawn or passion. We have to play smarter and work on our technique to gain parity.
If the Boks combined the smarts with the brawn, they would be nigh unbeatable. As it is, it appears they don’t, which is why they get beaten by teams that are smaller and appear less physical.
12 Aug 2007, 18:37 pm
umbhoxoswede,
Personally, I don’t think Burger has great technique. In time, he could. He has incredible energy levels and can tackle all day. But he has the passing and offloading skills of Joe Worsely, i.e. non-existent. and his running lines as a support runner aren’t too flash either. He has improved as a ball carrier, but dies with the ball far too often to be truly effective.
But to fit into White’s gameplan, Burger doesn’t need to be great technically. He needs to ‘attack the breakdown with reckless abandon, cart the ball up and tackle his heart out. If he ran true openside running lines and had the ability to pass the ball out of the tackle, he would truly be a sight to watch. He is a very good player. If coached properly (hopefully by Erasmus at the Stormers) he has the potential to be so much more.
Again, just my opinion.
12 Aug 2007, 18:38 pm
345.
Mate you need to get out more.
BOD & O Connell were Eddie’s only first team choices that started yesterday.
Touche if you’re on a windup, but I’m guessing that when the Boks got a lesson in Dublin last November you would have been saying “No Bakkies, Matfield, Schalk, etc”
If Ireland top their group as they might I’m expecting a few guys here to be the first to say well done?
12 Aug 2007, 18:43 pm
Flametop,
Don’t take it too much to heart mate. If the Irish make it out of the group of death, whether in first or second, i’m sure there will be some who will congratulate them and some who will be bitter. Them’s the breaks.
I would like to add that Flannery and Best are also likely starters who played yesterday.
I hope Brian Carney continues his rise in union. I enjoyed watching him immensely when he played league. Great balanced runner.
12 Aug 2007, 18:46 pm
Flametop,
What is your opinion on the Boks and the technique vs brawn discussion?
As i have made clear in my posts above, the Boks technique in the lineout is the only area of their forward play that i believe is very good, and alot of that is down to Matfield personally.
Do you think they rely too much on their natural size and strength? Or do you think that they are technically proficient in forward play?
12 Aug 2007, 18:53 pm
catch your replies later
12 Aug 2007, 19:01 pm
#354
Schalk was voted IRB player of the year, I think the IRB do not know what they are talking about
12 Aug 2007, 19:16 pm
Stodders and Flametop, nothing to concern yourselves with, you are welcome to pass your objective (or slanted) opinions on the SWOT of SA rugby freely, as is the case with most sporting fans from whichever base their support is mustered, they are most commonly biased towards their own patriotic perspective. Therefore as is common by fans everywhere they will vehemently defend their own beloved teams with fervor. Still I for one find it welcoming to obtain a foreign view and an outside and objective critique, especially with regard to the Springboks, because in my view we suffer highly from an insular and extremely biased fanaticism here in this country, to the extent where shortcomings are simply overlooked and weaknesses not analyzed until it is too late and the damage has already been done.
So seeing that you have the thick skin required to continue blogging in a somewhat hostile Saffa environment, I would venture to encourage you both to continue doing so.
12 Aug 2007, 19:18 pm
Rucks need the right combinations of players to work. An attacking ruck needs good ball carriers, good supporting runners, cleaners and quick service. A defensive ruck needs good contesting (through the fetcher / opensider) and good pressure through committed counter rucking. Both defensive and offensive rusks need clearly aligned support for the next phase.
The offensive ruck provides the best opportunity for penetrating the stronger defences of today. While lineouts suck in the majority of forwards and allow the start of the maul, rucks allow teams multi-phase play with potential quick ball and allow the attacking team to more precisely control the position and timing of the attack. Quick ruck-time ball remains a deadly threat to even the best defensive teams. Depending on the field position and state of the opposition defensive lines, the attacking team may choose to pick-and-go, break and set up a maul, swing the ball wide, suck in players and kick for space, or set up another ruck. Further, ball carriers can choose the point of impact and use this to target players in the other team, committing them to the ruck on defense.
This where we get it wrong Stodders, not in body position, but when the decision needs to be made of how many players to commit and what sort of situation it is. Some of our players ie Matfield I believe is not too strong in this area and in the backrow I believe that Juan Smith as eightman could actually balance out the trio
I also do believe that the Boks are fully aware that when it comes to scrum time that it is not about brawn anymore and that technique is the major driver, they are just learning the tricks a bit slow IMO
12 Aug 2007, 19:27 pm
Chabal you beast you!!! Now here is one man that can match Schalk in his game! Why France does’nt play him often is beyond me. He’s a freak!!!
12 Aug 2007, 19:27 pm
Stodders
Sorry I missed you.
Well as you know I’m a big Bokke supporter.
The natural Dutch heritage produces big okes.
Tall, strong and some fast also.
Thus the bish, bash, bosh can be very effective to persuade the other side into not wanting to play.
Test rugby is all about pressure. Big hits and swarming rush defense cuts down the time the other team have to THINK about what to do in a nanosecond. More time on the ball for the oppo Fly half gives him more time to find the killer pass to split the defense open. If he has one eye on the loosies galloping towards him he’s less likely to be concentrating on where he’s about to pass.
Few sides cut down space and time on the ball like SA. They create lots of mistakes by the oppo and usually look for field position (esp on the highfeld) to rumble their big pack over, or whip it ASAP to Habana to add 7 points.
The problem for SA IMHO is that they rely on that brawn too much. They get so much ball that they do not know what they want to do with it.
A Joost, Robbie Fleck, Joubert, Honiball would inject that bit of unpredictability to their play.
Question:
Who side steps in SA rugby? Is straight running the only running allowed?
Who looks for space/a gap in the line?
One of the centres needs to take a cut back occasionally even if he’s not getting the ball.
Does Butch/Pretorius ever loop behind for a return pass?
Where are the rehearsed backline moves that any school coach would instill?
Maybe I’m wrong but the tries I’ve seen SA backs score (other than Habana) seem to be scored after the oppo run out of defenders after taking it up the middle for ages.
As for Schalk:
My feeling is that if there’s support on his shoulder he should offload when not too risky.
I hear of players allowing themselves to get isolated but I call it bad support play by teammates. If you make a bollocking run and get turned over cos your own team didn’t keep up, it’s not your fault.
I think Schalk is fantastic, different to Richie but just as devastating.
Every player should look to better their skills and if Schalk needs to work on something he’ll be even better.
like you say balance in the backrow is key.
You need to have a hitter, a runner/linker and scavanger. All three in one is very desirable.
Most have a bit of the three.
I do think by the way that SA still could win the whole thing by kicking for the corners and pressurizing. They do it so well. Come the WC that pack will take some beating
12 Aug 2007, 19:33 pm
Shopskiet
Cheers
We all love rugby don’t we?
I call it as I see it, I’m as critical of E.O.Sullivan when I don’t agree.
When Ireland are pants (Ahem…just clearing throat) I say so also.
But you know we all sit together, have a beer afterwards and it’s a good day out.
It could be segregated seating and riots like soccer, so keep that in mind guys when we’re giving each other Kak!
12 Aug 2007, 19:34 pm
The crux is going to be after the ball emerges from out the ruck or maul or direct from first phase scrum or lineout, exactly what are our half backs going to do with it, kick it aimlessly upfield, bring it back to our comfort zone ie. our brawny forwards, then pick n drive ad infinitum, or will they finally have some confidence to do some damage out wide? I have my inherent fear that we still have not mustered the courage to adopt the risky yet effective latter option.
12 Aug 2007, 19:40 pm
365.
A playmaking 12 would really help.
There’s no shortage of pace out wide.
12 Aug 2007, 19:46 pm
The thing is de Villiers used to be one hell of a gamebreaker, somehow a whole lot of that flair has been systematically coached out of him, he still takes a few defenders with him though when he crashes through the advantage line, its the support players that don’t use the opportunity to split the defense apart thereafter, usually the half back will take an age to clear that subsequent ruck and all opposition defenses are well and truly back in position by then.
12 Aug 2007, 19:47 pm
#363 interesting piece! Bye the way the last time we ran some rehearsed beckline moves was the year we won the tri nations. Actually there was one move , where Paulse would shift from his wing position to the other end to create an extra man. Its seemed to work and we stopped using it. I thing we scored some good tries through that move besides the ones we scored from broken play. I agree though that we need to do more on attack to keep the opposition honest in their defensive game. Otherwise they’ll have to only work on their attack and find ways to nullify our forwards (likely illegaly) and we’d be stuck without a plan B. Aussies are good at that. I really hope people like Jones can assist in coming up with that plan be (even though deep down I think its a bit late to bring Jones in now. I hope his ideas do not confuse our players and our structures are undone. That would be a tragedy!).
12 Aug 2007, 19:51 pm
I don’t see the problem being at 12, it stems from 9 & 10 imo.
12 Aug 2007, 20:39 pm
gooie naand almal. My my but the boys have been chirping this weekend. 369 threads and counting. I’ve just returned from a recce up Lions Head and not for the first time. For those less fortunate, today provided a view of the world from an entirely different perspective. 360 vision of all things beautiful. Like an astronaut, just better. The primary diggings of the new 2010 stadium being but one blip on the landscape. Imaginary sitings of S America being another. Helps to clear the mind. Eish. Yes Skop I also see the problems starting at half back. No 10 to be exact. And with respect to our two incumbants, we are not up there. I have little knowledge of flyhalf play but just enough to know that our inside centre has no time to effect anything other than crash-ball option. If the ball goes wide(which is fairly rare) then No 12 is usually skipped. I’m no expert but I dont see this happening with our major opposition, particularly Oz. Hopefully EJ can provide some creativity. Because, like you, I’d like to see more of Jacque F and Habana in the mix. Both are very good at what they do when permitted on attack. I’d like to believe that EJ can add some value to this dept.
12 Aug 2007, 20:45 pm
Jean De V has shown us that he is a great player. But this was when he was picked as a wing. At 12 his game appears to be stifled. Can’t put my finger on reason why but it must be either : (1) the game plan or (2) the skill (or lack thereof)of the flyhalf. I cannot buy, at this stage, that its slow service from 9 but something is wrong.
12 Aug 2007, 21:01 pm
Watch other effective back lines, the ball comes whipping out of the ruck/maul or lineout/scrum from 9 to 10, and thereafter the strategical backline play/moves come into effect with enough time to effect them. Our shallow crashball game plan nullifies any creativity at 12/13 effectively and we have to resort to bash crash tactics, usually our centers get man and ball together. Otherwise our 9 or 10 kicks our possession away and we have to soak up the attack coming back at us from the opposite direction.
Our 9, 10, 12, 13 game plan simply has to be completely overhauled or tweak the crashball play to perfection, but kick it away every time and we are in for a hiding to nothing.
12 Aug 2007, 22:42 pm
Mark my words – this WC will be based on forward / 10 man rugby play. Kick into your oppositions territory and play from there. When close to your oppositions poles – at all costs – at least come away with a drop goal. I predict there will be more drop goals this WC than in hte past. Big forwards and Bulls type rugby. Forward play is coming back into fashion
12 Aug 2007, 22:44 pm
371 – J de Villiers is actually not so brave..
12 Aug 2007, 22:52 pm
the Scots also had one of their biggest packs of forwards ever against Ireland this past Saturday. The smallest guy was the scrum half – more or less Luke Watson height/size. This WC will produce big forwards
12 Aug 2007, 22:56 pm
Another prediction – teh Scots will be a tougher test for hte Boks than we would like to imagine – it will not be easy for hte Boks – they will clean us out at the rucks – it will be a close match…..watch this space. Go bokke go – but be FIT. If you guys are truley FIT – no team will rule your road.
12 Aug 2007, 23:06 pm
wc results would not be a surprise if they ended up as
Australia
England
france
and the rest…………..
12 Aug 2007, 23:09 pm
Danie Rousseau is a must at no8 against the large Poms – Also van der Linde MUST be FIT other wise he will get eaten up
12 Aug 2007, 23:21 pm
JL1,
On Schalk, everyone has their opinion. I respect yours. He’s a fantastic player. I just think he can get better, which is scary.
Thanks for post #361. Good read.
12 Aug 2007, 23:29 pm
bro, you talking to yourself?
the boks dont play the scots at this world cup. are you relieved?
the AB’s will monster them with at least a 70 point margin.
agree with your banter about the WC being a tight affair, but really 10 man rugby is **** boring. hopefuly there are some good tries at this wC!
12 Aug 2007, 23:38 pm
straight talk, boks wil still have the heaviest pack at the WC but we will not be able to outmuscle the english pack.
interesting, the top french pack weighs only about 850kgs and their backrow average height is
about 1.87m..
but they compensate with superior technique.
12 Aug 2007, 23:42 pm
the boks have the heviest pack. oh **** is that true. we are going to get run around the place constantly.
why do we stick with the old idea of having fat guys playing rugby. rugby players should be athletes, not players carrying a bunch of fat around them that will supposedly help them push in the scrum!
12 Aug 2007, 23:47 pm
I wonder where Big Hit is now
12 Aug 2007, 23:57 pm
big hit will be talking up how france only just beat their 2nd team and the sir johnny sick not wasnt playing!
i hope for the greater good, the boks beat england and england dont make the quarters
that would be nice!
hurricane
who will replace ellis if he is found to be suffering more than meets the eye?
13 Aug 2007, 00:01 am
08.IMANOL HARINORDOQUY-1.93m105kgs
07.YANNICK NYANGA-1.87m94kgs
06.SERGE BETSEN-1.82m96kgs
vs
08.DANIE ROSSOUW-1.98m117kgs
07.JUAN SMITH-1.96m107kgs
06.SCHALK BURGER-1.93m105kgs
size wise we should be able to crunch these
small french men but they literally have 10 backs
on the field most of the time with the speed of their loosies.
funny the big England pack failed to dominate.
13 Aug 2007, 00:10 am
England pack did dominate just couldn’t breach the French defense or round off their moves.
13 Aug 2007, 00:44 am
i didnt see the game
will we beat these fu**s
13 Aug 2007, 00:53 am
a 10kg difference is barely anything really. it could be bigger toes or something. its all about technique and athleticism!
13 Aug 2007, 03:35 am
384. Tomsta;
They would have to take Piri Weepu but they should take Cowan – piri has demonstarted well (in the last 2 ANZC games) why it was wise NOT to include him in the squad.
13 Aug 2007, 03:41 am
Alby Matthewson will be the All Blacks #1 halfback within 2 years, and will star in our defence of teh Cup in 4 years but it wouldn’t be fair to expect him to front up at the WC in 2 weeks time.
…IMHO
13 Aug 2007, 04:39 am
#390 hehe very optimistic there my friend!
Alby Matthewson ? yeah behind
01.Leonard
02.Cowan
03.Ellis
04.Moa
13 Aug 2007, 04:48 am
dont forget leonard, the kid is barely 21? he will be around 1 years or more. he is pure class, and i reckon will start ahead of byron when ol Ted realises what he has in leonard. its great to see a halfback thrive under a teams playing style.
its a major pity that ruan isnt afforded the same luxury with the boks. he would carve up at international level if the team style suited his game!
13 Aug 2007, 05:02 am
Big Hit?
13 Aug 2007, 05:12 am
#392 Leonard reminds me of a bigger Garth Wright
(who I rate best bok halfback of the last 20yrs)
very energetic & explosive around the fringles and with that classic dive pass.
13 Aug 2007, 05:48 am
yep, leonard is quite good. will be interesting to see how he goes with the 2nd season blues next year. this 1st year for him has been dynamite!
great pass from standing and from the ground. great clearance from the ruck. excellent acceleration and good top speed too.
i think henry mite favour him over byron, since byron tends to bring a physical game that is like a 4th loosie. henry might like the idea of a playmaker at 9 who can increase the creativity in the 8,9,10,12 axis.
we can almost put money on it that byron will get injured (hopefully not bad) at some point which will see leonard get game time. his lack of experience might prove costly, but he is a sharp player and might get by regardless.
13 Aug 2007, 07:54 am
Watch Marshall get the call up if Byron / Leonord are injured – an ample replacement and i am sure he would want to win a WC medal
13 Aug 2007, 23:24 pm
Ricane
What has cowan done lately?
That might as well take the half back from Horowhenua.Piri is by far the better player,he should be given a chance,he has seen on what could happen.This is about winning the RWC,not who will be a good boy a go to sleep at 11pm cup
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