Scots stun awful Irish
11 Aug 2007
Scotland beat Ireland 31-21 in a World Cup warm-up Test at Murrayfield.
It was Ireland’s third consecutive Test defeat following a 2-0 series loss to Argentina in June. While the Irish were not at full strength, this was an abject performance from a team regarded by many as serious World Cup contenders.
Scotland will be delighted with the win even if it means little in the greater scheme of things. Frank Hadden’s side have to beat Italy in Pool C to qualify for the World Cup quarter-finals and today’s effort will have boosted their confidence substantially.
The Scots had looked in control at the break after tries from Ally Hogg, Andy Henderson and Ewan Murray. Although Henderson stretched the Scottish advantage early in the second half with another five-pointer, Ireland upped their game with Isaac Boss and Andrew Trimble getting over. But Henderson’s third try seven minutes from time sealed the win.
Scotland – Tries: Hogg, Henderson (3), Murray. Conversions: Paterson (2), Parks
Ireland – Tries: Boss, Trimble. Conversions: Wallace. Penalties: Wallace (2), Murphy
33 Comments
11 Aug 2007, 17:22 pm
Well the first team might be tipped to Lift the trophy. Nearly beat the Scots with a few regulars and rest B Team so not too poor. Trying new combinations and rotations so the headline is a bit hysterical but what would you expect from the site that gave you Arg. beating Ireland C team as an indication of current form
Well done Scotland, played well to your strengths.
Stodders, enjoy,
11 Aug 2007, 17:54 pm
Flametop
Do you see the Irish leaving the RWC pool stages, if they are true world cup contenders then even their ‘B’ team should easily beat the Scotts.
The frogs and Argies must be favourites.
11 Aug 2007, 18:05 pm
Flametop,
I hear you mate.
Ireland don’t have 30 players who are world class. Keith Wood said as much. But, if they are able to select their best 22 on match day, they have the quality to make the semis, if not further.
I’m not reading too much into this game. Both teams played their first games after lengthy conditioning phases. We’ve all witnessed the conditioned All Blacks sluggish return from their R&R period.
Scotland will be pleased with their improved forward play and set pieces, the fact that Blair and White made it through the game unscathed (although Cussiter’s injury is a concern) and the fact that they looked more comfortable on the ball.
Ireland’s backline play was a cut above ours, but that is no surprise. Our backline ran straight and hard and our forwards ran the right support lines. In fact, our backline played like the Boks, but our support runners played more like NZ’s hehehehe.
I did like what i saw from Scotland in going back to pick and drive basics, but also in utilising the offload instead of dying with the ball.
Ireland, once their first choice players entered the fray, regained parity and the game got closer, with Ireland shifting momentum their way. O’Sullivan will be disappointed with the defeat, but he will have learned which players can’t cut it at international level after this game.
Thanks for the graciousness in defeat Flametop. You still have by far the better team when all first choice players are available, but after the last few years and the dire rugby we’ve played, we’ll take this win and performance as a sign of better things to come.
Good luck to your lads in the future.
Bring on the Bokke at a cold and windswept Murrayfield
11 Aug 2007, 18:07 pm
oh, one more thing.
In Blair, Cussiter and Lawson, Scotland have arguably the best stable of scrum halves in world rugby currently. We don’t have alot, but it is good to see that a traditional strength in Scottish rugby is still able churn out quality players.
11 Aug 2007, 18:07 pm
No I reckon the first team has a good chance of topping the group. But anything can happen in that group.
Injuries will play a huge part.
Especially to key players like Hayes and ROG.
That Scottish pack will ask a few questions of other teams. Their weight alone gets them over the gain line, and Henderson is hard to stop near the line also.
One can read too much into a poor performance.
like all 3 of the back row competing for the same place on the world cup squad, and not playing as a team. Our flyhalf couldn’t buy a touch finding kick.
But if France and Arg think that’s Ireland that will turn up in France then
11 Aug 2007, 18:34 pm
Stodders
You’re welcome mate. I said before the game I would accept a 10 point defeat with the two teams picked.
Had that not been a training match I would have felt that it would have been very arrogant for Ireland to pick that team.
Scotland have been improving every year.
Their back row played very well although as the game went on the extra kilos started to tire them a bit. But even NZ will do well to completely stop the pick and go.
Incidentally even the backs are pretty heavy on average? (Big, not fat)
I hope also Scotland’s injuries heal soon.
Your point about Ireland is valid, although unless there is an epedimic/Suzie doing the cooking the chances of needing 30 players instead of 22 is slim.
Lots of players over the last three games have been trying to impress to get on the plane to France instead of playing as a team. Had only a few changes been made they would have done better.
And yes teams are a bit rusty after the layoff.
Game time is important and NH teams aren’t getting much.
I still believe that the problem today was not about depth (several of today’s team other than the 2 obvious at 5 and 13, Neil Best, Flannery)
but combinations. You can’t change that many without losing composure.
But BM temperment can only be learned in big matches and some of these guys will be needed.
I guess we should have rotated more earlier, but that’s steady Eddie for you.
11 Aug 2007, 18:50 pm
Eish,
Die bokke moet ligloop in hulle opwarmings toets teen Skotland oor 3 weke!
11 Aug 2007, 18:53 pm
Flametop,
I noticed that Scotland all round looked bigger than Ireland across the park. I think we were 3.5 kilos heavier a man in the pack. Henderson and Dewey in the centres are big units too.
In saying that, whereas the extra ballast is good in the forwards when playing a tighter, driving game, it would put us at a disadvantage in drier, hotter conditions against a more mobile forward pack, like in the south of France against Italy in the pool game for instance.
The contrast in the speed and running lines of the players in each backline was another example of how extra muscle mass affects the agility of players. I thought the Irish backline looked faster and more agile than their opponents, but in close quarters, the extra strength and power of the Scots was telling, i.e. Henderson powering over O’Driscoll for one try.
Combinations in rugby is one of the most important facets of the game. You can carry a player at 80% if the combinations are strong, even if his replacement is at 100%.
I think O’Sullivan was disappointed today that a few of the players he was hoping would stand up didn’t. But he didn’t really give them much a chance to begin with by selecting 3 big bruisers in the backrow against Scotland’s first choice back row, which in my mind is in the top 3 or 4 back row units in world rugby.
After this game, I just hope Scotland can give the Boks a good game in two weeks time. It might pop a few lofty expectations on this blog anyway
, which will be in the best interests of the Boks if tey hope to win the world cup. World cups have to be earned by deed after all.
Who is your next game against?
11 Aug 2007, 18:54 pm
Tjorts,
What are you worried about? Scotland are a minnow nation after all.
11 Aug 2007, 18:57 pm
#4 Stodders
I agree with that.
But Peter Stringer of Ireland remains the nr1 though…if he gets injured Ireland will have serious problems. Quickest passer in the world.
11 Aug 2007, 19:06 pm
Stodders
Good points all round.
Can’t understand why Keo doesn’t have us both on the payroll yet!
Think Scottish backrow is def up there with the best, if as you say a little heavy over 80 mins.
As shown in last years AI’s Best, Leamy & Wallace IMNSHO are probably second best back row in the world. (had OZ and SA ok without Schalk in back pocket) Why o why did Eddie break those 3 up?
Ireland would have liked to move the play from touch line to touchline but the nice summer we’ve been having wasn’t conducive.
BOD asked to play today as he has not done since March. I think it showed as he was a bit flat (like the rest of them)
But yep those two big boys in the centre suit the big pack style of play.
Italy next for us, probably give the full 15 a run
11 Aug 2007, 19:08 pm
willievz,
Bugger all Peter Stringer could have done today for the first 50 mins when his pack were going backwards and Ireland had little possession. I thought Boss did ok, and his extra physicality was needed in defence today. He does appear to have picked up the SH malaise of taking two or three steps before passing though.
Our scrum halves have had 3 years of practice of playing behind forward packs in reverse. It must have been novelty for them to play on the front foot today.
Additionally, Stringer may well have the best pass of a scrum half in world rugby (debatable), and his defence has improved over time, but he offers little outside of that. If he has added the ability to snipe in his reconditioning window, he would go up in my estimations as a scrum half has to have the ability in the modern game to keep backrows and ruck defenders honest.
11 Aug 2007, 19:08 pm
only warmup but not good for moral gotta say
tick these scottish names for Lions ’09
Paterson
Lamont
Cusiter
Blair
White
Taylor
S Murray
E Murray
11 Aug 2007, 19:14 pm
Flametop,
I imagine because a) we’re foreigners and b) we tell the truth, even if it means being unkind to the Boks
(Just kidding of course for the prickly bloggers around today)
As for why Eddie broke up your backrow trio? He knows who his best 3 are – Best/Wallace/Leamy. He needed to see who else could step up today, and he probably felt of the 3, Best was the most expendable as he has decent options to replace them. Unfortunately for the guys today, the likes Of Easterby gained more out of not playing in terms of being selected for the world cup squad.
11 Aug 2007, 19:22 pm
greatest13gerber,
I would say:
Sean Lamont
Mike Blair
Jason White
Ally Hogg
are definites. Paterson as a fullback or wing is more potent than at flyhalf. He has the skills and i believe the temperament to play 10, but he needs time in that role.
Scott Murray will probably have retired by then, Simon Taylor and Chris Cussiter will probably have retired due to injury proneness, and Eoin Murray will never get picked as Scotland don’t produce props anymore according to the English media
11 Aug 2007, 20:21 pm
Stodders
Are you still there?
What happened?
11 Aug 2007, 20:29 pm
All this talk about Ireland being so strong. How many of the final 30 players played today … anyone know roughly?
I still put them behind Argentina … 7th
11 Aug 2007, 20:38 pm
chch,
I’d put them 2nd equal
1st – NZ
2nd – France, South Africa, Australia, Ireland
Forget about 30 players. Ireland have a very good first choice 22. Of those in the starting XV, only Flannery, O’Connell, Best and BOD started today. Hayes and O’Gara came on later on and the game started swinging Ireland’s way.
Of those starting players though, the majority were playing in new combinations. Flametop did mention in an earlier post that Eddie O’Sullivan should have tried these out a couple of years ago, but that is one of Eddie’s flaws – conservatism. He and Jake White are similar is terms of selections policies and sticking with those they trust.
If Ireland get injuries, they don’t have the depth of player resource and experience of NZ to chose from. No-one does, not even the Boks. Just be thankful you are in a golden age of NZ rugby.
11 Aug 2007, 20:45 pm
18 stodders,
I still would have put it as ….
NZ
SA
Eng
Fra
Aus
Arg
Ire
… then a big gap to the others
Perhaps we could swap Argentina and Ireland. Australia are hard to place as their forwards are suddenly playing like forwards. If this is just a purple blip then Ireland could be ahead of them to …. but would you really but Ireland ahead of SA and England?
At the moment NZ have only picked 28 players for the WC + Toeava
11 Aug 2007, 20:47 pm
Stodders,
I am picking Scotland to make the quarters though (ahead of Italy). I think you guys only play one group game away …in France against Portugal?
11 Aug 2007, 20:48 pm
19.
Ireland have beaten Eng four years in a row.
Eng are improving but what are you basing your rankings on?
11 Aug 2007, 20:51 pm
Stodders and Flametop,
I think their is a difference between many of the AB players playing for the same positions. In most friendlies and some tri-nations games we have struggled to look good once the mass of substitutions occur.
11 Aug 2007, 20:58 pm
21 Flametop,
Personal judgement from watching games and reading write ups … nothing too scientific (obviously my rugby knowledge does not compare with Stodders)
Ireland do get some good results. The back line are good but I have seen them struggle to be inventive enough on many occasions. The forwards are good but no as good as what the likes of NZ, SA, Eng and Argentina will turn up with.
We will get a good idea of where things are at when they lay France and Argentina anyway
11 Aug 2007, 20:58 pm
Good post.
It only takes 15/22 to win once you’re in the final.
It’s the squad that helps get you there though (Or not)
11 Aug 2007, 21:11 pm
Flametop,
Oddschecker actually have Ireland 5th ahead of England. They have Ireland having a 50% to 20% more chance of winning it
11 Aug 2007, 21:44 pm
Stodders – by the way – CONGRATS! – there is one for the (record) books!
What are you lot north of Hadrians wall up to?
Whatever it is, it looks very good indeed!
Certainly took me by surprise!
11 Aug 2007, 22:00 pm
I’d still back Ireland to put one over the Pumas when it counts with a 1st choice XV. Does anyone seriously think that anyone bar the ABs has 2 full teams of equal strength at their disposal?
Scotland were much better today than in recent times but although I’m happy enough with a win I’d still say lets wait and see what pans out in a month. I do like Paterson at 10, Blair was also excellent at 9 and if anyone reckons Stringer is the best 9 in the NH they need their head checked! Other plus points were Captain White making it through 60 mins unscathed and the pack generally who seem to have bulked up somewhat in the close season and were able to push the Irish B pack around at will in the first half. Good initial steps for Scotland, my anxiety over the Italy crunch is lessening!
Ireland will not have taken much from the game except for the form of Geordan Murphy who I thought played well today in a losing side, also quite liked Paddy Wallace although he didn’t get much front-foot ball he looks like a player with good touch and hands.
11 Aug 2007, 23:24 pm
good heavens, what is going on?
11 Aug 2007, 23:53 pm
Does this loss mean that Ireland are going down to 6th and Pumas climb to 5th in the rankings?
12 Aug 2007, 00:08 am
Stodders and Flametop don’t get to carried away lads, these games being played at the moment mean absolute squat, the real deal comes in a few weeks time.
12 Aug 2007, 01:23 am
Och aye!!
12 Aug 2007, 12:18 pm
30. These games mean a lot confidence wise and the way Scotland played will boost an otherwise fragile team prone to dropping the heads when mistakes creep in.
I’ve just watched the game and I’m over the moon. The quick ball and swift hands were really exciting to watch and that first half was as good as I’ve seen from Scotland for many a day. We even handled the inevitable comeback, stuck to the task in hand and contained the Irish well before going over near the end to relieve the pressure.
Well done Scotland. It’s not often we feel chuffed at the final whistle.
13 Aug 2007, 08:27 am
The Scottish forwards look good but i am still concerned about their backline – their play looked a bit one dimensionable – i think when they play against NZ where the forward battle will be equal , that Scotlands backline will be cut apart – the Lamount brothers defence needs major tuning.
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.