Botha’s Bok ambitions in limbo
4 Feb 2008
Gary Botha’s desire to play for the Springboks has never burned stronger but he’s not overly optimistic about his international future.
Botha, who signed a three-year deal with English Premiership side Harlequins last year, had a difficult 2007 under former Springbok coach Jake White. He came on as an early replacement for John Smit in the Tri-Nations opener against Australia, then started in Durban and Sydney, before being dropped for Bismarck du Plessis for the final match against the All Blacks in Christchurch.
Du Plessis, who came into the World Cup squad as a late replacement for Pierre Spies, then overtook him in the pecking order and played back-up to Smit for the World Cup semi-final and final.
Botha probably wouldn’t have featured often, if at all, this year had White remained as coach. However, with the introduction of a new boss in Peter de Villiers and the pending announcement of his assistants, Botha’s Test career may have been thrown a lifeline.
The 26-year-old is, however, not waiting by the phone to hear from De Villiers. In fact, the sense you get when talking to him is of a man hungry to continue playing for his country, but one who has at the same time resigned himself fact that he may not be part of De Villiers’s future plans.
“A new coach brings new ideas and philosophies about how the game should be played, and what type of players he needs to achieve his vision,” Botha told keo.co.za from his London base.
“Whether Peter has me in mind or not I don’t know. He hasn’t made any contact with me about meeting when he comes up here (De Villiers leaves for Europe on February 8 to meet with foreign-based players and their coaches, as well as to gather data on Wales and Italy who they play in mid-year Tests). I can’t tell you what he’s thinking. To be honest I’m not holding my breath for a call.
“I’ll always have an allegiance to my country, and I still want to play for South Africa. If he does ask about my availability, I’ll have to negotiate with Quins [to return to South Africa], but I’d been dead keen to play.”
Harlequins suffered a pool stage exit in the European Cup, failing to win any matches, and a disappointing Energy Cup campaign where they lost two of their three pool matches. They are, however, still well placed at the halfway stage of the Premiership, and will hope to elevate themselves from sixth position to a to a top four finish.
Botha’s form in the European Cup was criticised by the British press, who questioned his ability to operate without the world’s best lock combination, Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield, to aim at.
“That’s an unfair thing to say,” he counters. “Victor in particular is one of a kind, the best in the business. You don’t have a player in the world who is even close to him so you can’t expect the same consistency we had at the Bulls. That lineout was so efficient that it skewed people’s perception of what a normal lineout should operate like. You’re going to make errors. It’s not going to be perfect all the time.
“Statistically we’re the fourth best lineout team in the Premiership and we’ve got some outstanding locks here who I’m beginning to gel with nicely. Of course I can play without Victor and Bakkies, but it takes time to settle. Don’t judge me now.”
By Ryan Vrede
91 Comments
4 Feb 2008, 15:57 pm
too small – and yes without victor and bakkies your throwing has been shown up.
4 Feb 2008, 16:02 pm
Come on Gary be fair, you were give the chances to prove that you were the understudy to John Smit and you played kak, look at the Tonga and Connacht games. This kak form has continued for Quins.
He should have stayed at home in Pretoria and been the Bulls starting hooker.
4 Feb 2008, 16:05 pm
Yes, he’s too short to be a lineout option
. Ok I’ll leave now…
4 Feb 2008, 16:09 pm
LOL berg_bok
4 Feb 2008, 16:10 pm
This story needs no comments, it is such a boring and lousy ambitions by a weak player.
I won’t be shocked if he posts the views of Ashwin Willemse’s ambition of being a Bok having been made to believe that he is the best winger in SA, or maybe this might apply also to Wynand Olivier, out best inside centre.
I guess KEO is out of stories.
4 Feb 2008, 16:12 pm
ek dink PdV gaan hou by JS.
ek glo ook Bismarck is beter as Gary en tans ons nommer 1.
4 Feb 2008, 16:21 pm
Gary Botha is the Danny Devito of the rugby world. A small, industrious fella, scrambling all over yet seemingly never making any strides forward. Just like the real Devito, makes for good entertainment
4 Feb 2008, 16:27 pm
Interesting listening to Jake on BBC TV this weekend.
I reckon he will coach the Lions to South Africa in 2008. After they have beaten us we will beg him to come back.
His views on transformation and the injustices of the past were also interesting. Can you believe he was defending transformation whilst Guscott was ridiculing it.
Also says that the key role of a good coach is leave a team in a better state than what he received it AND THAT IS HOW WE SHOULD JUDGE PDV.
4 Feb 2008, 16:41 pm
Ek dink die Bulle moet vir Danie Coetzee teruglok Loftus toe. Baie sterk in die skrum, groter as Gary en sal ‘n goeie leermeester wees vir Chili en Kuun … alhoewel Kuun eintlik op flank moet wees.
4 Feb 2008, 16:46 pm
Nie ‘n sleg idea nie Alf.
4 Feb 2008, 16:54 pm
Loosehead,
Die Bulle sit met so klomp jong stutte, hul kan gerus een van hulle ‘n haker maak (bv. Dean Greyling of selfs Jaco Engels), maar nou moet ou arme Kuun instaan. Ja, Gary was ook eers ‘n flank maar hy het dadelik aangepas, Kuun kry dit na ‘n jaar nogsteeds nie reg nie. Hulle mors met hom, dink ek.
4 Feb 2008, 17:11 pm
Alf, Kuun is rerig wasted op hakker, na ‘n hele seisoen kan hy nogsteds nie skrum of ingooi nie. Sit hom terrug op flank waar hy behoort en maak ‘n ander plan op hakker.
4 Feb 2008, 17:13 pm
Gary Botha = Alvin Chipmunk
4 Feb 2008, 17:19 pm
PDV deserves some support for now. He has been chosen and has a difficult task of maintaining the belief within the team that had been acquired over the past few years.
My only concern was when he made comments that all players will need to prove themselves when questioned about the captaincy of John Smit.
I had to laugh, like JS has not proved himself enough.
4 Feb 2008, 17:38 pm
Keo
Why is user registration disabled. I have mates of mine that wasnt to register and cant. Please help.
4 Feb 2008, 17:43 pm
Why would Jake White be chosen to be head coach of the Lions? I know the prcedent for a foreign born coach was set when Henry led the 2001 Lions, but he was coach of Wales at the time.
Last time I checked, White wasn’t one of the national coaches of the four home unions, or a leading coach of a major club team up here (Carwyn James was coach of Llanelli not Wales when he was coach of Lions in 1971).
I can see Jake White being used as a technical coach in the way that Eddie Jones was used by the Boks last year. However, if Brian Ashton or Eddie O’Sullivan were to get the chop after the 6N, or JW was to get a big coaching gig in the NH before 2009, he would come into contention for the Lions role.
Until then, I just don’t see the Lions committee selecting him as head coach.
4 Feb 2008, 17:44 pm
Stodders,
Professionalism. If I was on any commitee appointing a new coach, screw history and past laws. Get the best available.
4 Feb 2008, 17:46 pm
I do see your point though, Pomms will probably not choose him
4 Feb 2008, 17:53 pm
Bhandise Maku is being converted from prop to hooker at the Bulls. I think they should be doing the same with Mxoli.
4 Feb 2008, 17:55 pm
robdylan,
agreed, Mxoli not strong enough for prop.
Wes
4 Feb 2008, 17:57 pm
Bullet,
So you’re saying Jake White is the best person to coach the Lions based on what? Because he won a world cup? On that basis, Clive Woodward should have waltzed to a series win against the Kiwis, no?
White has no experience of coaching any player outside of SA. He did a great job for you guys, but that is no barometer to measure whether he can take players from 4 rival countries, and in the space of 3 to 4 weeks, turn them into a team capable of playing test match rugby. Of course he could do it, but better coaches have tried and failed.
Back to the professionalism point you make, it is worth noting that the Lions committee and the whole Lions ethos is still stuck in the amateur era, bar the marketing/corporate side of it. There are plenty of people up here who want to see it scrapped because they say rugby has moved on and there is no need for a touring side like the Lions anymore with the amount of rugby that is being played.
If professionalism were the driving factor for all rugby appointments, why is EOS still coach of Ireland, Ashton in charge of England, even Lievremont in charge of France? The answer, national pride. The Lions committee, made up of Brits and Irishmen, will want to select someone from within rather than an outsider.
Call it old fashioned and out-dated. That is probably true. Just like the Lions concept in a way. It’s one of the last bastions of amateurism left. I quite like it like that.
4 Feb 2008, 18:25 pm
Hi Stodders, you’re in Scotland right? I might be mistaken.
Anyway, agree with most of what you are saying, I think must rugby supporters still enjoy the Lions tours, everyone is forever shouting out for tours to be brought back in some way or the other.
Just a question, would be interesting to hear your answer. Don’t you think a coach from outside would be a good think in the sense that he doesn’t have any allience with any of the countries of his players? So he wouldn’t favour any country like Woodward did with England?
If I’m not mistaken, that was a year when Wales did really well and he had so few of their players even though they were the form players?
4 Feb 2008, 18:27 pm
If you read previous blogs you will note that Keo (who is pretty informed) reckons Ashton will get the bullett after this year’s Autumn test matches and that JW will get the job.
4 Feb 2008, 18:29 pm
#22 Werner
Personally I think White is angling for the England job. Ashton only had his contract renewed for a year and on Saturday’s performance it’s an open question as to whether he survives the year.
White would have taken the England position had Ashton’s contract not been rolled over. Did you see him on the BBC during Saturday’s game. He was so biased towards England. It was as if Wales didn’t exist.
4 Feb 2008, 18:30 pm
#23 Trein
Our messages just crossed
4 Feb 2008, 18:42 pm
Werner,
I think in theory it could work quite well.
Given the divisions in SA provincial rugby, JW would more than likely be ideally suited to working out the best blend for his team from the 4 rival nations without any inherent bias.
Then again, he sees the game similarly to his mate Woodward, so he could side with the defensively orientated, power players of England over the more skillful, more athletic Celtic players. he’ll certainly not pick any Celtic openside flankers as he doesn’t believe in fetchers
He might pick a couple of quota Celts on the wings to try to appease the 3 Celtic nations though
Then again, he might think that the only team to beat hisd Boks consistently is NZ, and they mix power and pace within their team and set their stall out to attack. To beat the Boks, you have to attack them and expose their weaknesses. If you sit back and hope to defend, they will cut you up.
Big Hit will be along soon i’m sure
4 Feb 2008, 18:55 pm
pauld,
Shock horror.
No way White was angling for the England job. How could you say that?
I don’t see many Matfields, Burgers, Du Preezs, Habanas, Montgomerys, Smits, Fouries in England’s ranks right now or coming through.
I do see some Borthwicks, Moodys, Gommarsals, Sackeys, Balshaws (hehehe), Regans, Tindalls. Not quite what you call the same calibre.
Of course, England do have some v good players. Tait for one, Hipkiss for another. There are a few youngsters on the up and up, but none I would say is in Steyn’s class for example. Cipriani had a chance on Saturday, but fluffed his lines. England do have Sheridan, but Gethin Jenkins handled him with consummate ease in the 2nd half, as did that noted scrummager CJ Van der Linde in the RWC final.
Some of their forwards are dying from old age (Regan, Shaw, Vickery) and there aren’t the players of sufficient calibre to replace them.
What’s worse is that dependable ol’ Jonny isn’t as dependable anymore. His performance on Saturday wasn’t an aberration. his general play has been poor for some time for both country and club. Sure he still can tackle, but it has been a while since he has set his backline away with any regularity. He is a great of the game, but even great players get passed by time.
The England job is a huge one, and shouldn’t be underestimated. I’m sure White is well aware of this.
4 Feb 2008, 19:01 pm
White would do well to go and work in the USA, employed by the IRB as a director of rugby.
I do not think that White will have the ability to connect with players in England. He is too jeppe boys bum smacks in his approach really. English players will find him pedantic and authoritarian.
Go to the USA Jake, . Lets face it , soccer will never be a major sport there. They have tried since the 70′s and failed. Rugby has the potential to capture the US immagination.
Soccer is only interesting if you are raised in the game to support the team of your community. Standing alone without it’s massive financial support it is just plain boring.
4 Feb 2008, 19:03 pm
read Stephen Jones’ interview of Jake in the Sunday Times; he makes it clear coaching is over for him
His best comment is re PdV
4 Feb 2008, 19:03 pm
I didn’t see the BBC broadcast but heard from all different ppl about it. But I’m sure he would love the job, he even said so just after the World Cup, before Ashton got his contract extended.
I don’t know much about Ashton, except for seeing him at the world cup and having heard what was written about him in ex-player’s books. But don’t you think it would be unfair towards him if he got fired after 6-Nations (if it’s gonna be because of Saturday’s game)? No coach can be blamed for players unable to close out an allready won match!
Stodders, not necessarily saying White for Lions tour, but I would think it would be better getting someone from outside. Just my opinion though, and what do I know!
4 Feb 2008, 19:04 pm
#27 Stodders
Problem with England is that it’s more of the same. Saturday was a case of rumble it up front with the forwards. Get the ball to Tindall and he will Pieter Muller it bash bash style up the middle , forwards to recycle and then again and again and maybe again. What has changed since the WC07 ? When Tindall went off they lost the plot. Errr , no plan B. Also shows how their entire game is predicated on the boot of Wilko. He had an awful game and now they want him dropped ? Work that one out.
Until England develope a plan B and C they won’t win the crunch games never mind the easy ones like against Wales and the rest of the Celtic Nations.
Then again , how the RFU justify having Rob Andrew as high performance manager or technical director beggars belief. I would like somebody to tell me exactly what he has brought to the England side since his appointment ?
4 Feb 2008, 19:06 pm
Oh, also heard(don’t know if it’s true) that Jake and his wife are getting divorced? You wouldn’t think it possible after reading his book!
4 Feb 2008, 19:06 pm
#32 Werner
Thats true. Confirmed today
4 Feb 2008, 19:11 pm
As for White I maintain that he is a good coach/manager but not a great. And I say that with the utmost respect. He basically used the Clive Woodward manual. And the key ingredient in thatn manual is to keep faith in a squad of players for a 4 year period. Thats exactly what White did. He stuck with everybody bar injury , retirement or complete loss of form. An example of this would be the ricky January and Ruan Pienaar issue.
4 Feb 2008, 19:14 pm
gary may be short, but he sure is taller than luke.
4 Feb 2008, 19:18 pm
#34 pauld,
I agree with that in way. I was/am a big Jake fan, for the simple reason that he actually did something with the Boks. After Rudolph and Harry we needed this. So even though he played a dull game at times at least when the boks ran out, I had real believe that they could win on the day, even vs NZ in NZ. I met him once and thought he’s a nice guy and speaking differently that to journalists.
4 Feb 2008, 19:23 pm
pauld,
England haven’t had a plan B since 2003.
Before Woodward and the awesome crop of players he inherited, England didn’t have a plan B either. Just ask the Wallabies, and Campese in particular, who goaded the English into abandoning their conservative, power game for the 91 final.
It may be ugly, it may sometimes be boring, but it is the English way and they are usually pretty good at it. Unfortunately for them, when a team turns up and doesn’t get bullied and have some players who can crate opportunities, England’s gameplan is ruined and the lack of opportunity they give to their genuine gamebreakers is made all the more apparent.
Vickery and Sheridan were standing at first receiver again on Sat. It must be a genuine tactic for the amount of time i’ve seen England do it. It doesn’t work though. Static ball kills any attacking ambition a team may have and inhibits the backline creators. England are the masters of it at the moment.
Oh how they wish they had a Will Greenwood to give some midfield direction and some attacking thrust.
4 Feb 2008, 19:24 pm
#36 Werner
Dont get me wrong. I admire the man for sticking to his guns. One could say he did it the Alex Ferguson way. If you take Man U of the 90′s he stuck with a core group (young/old , experienced/inexperienced). Jake is a great guy who I have had the good fortune to play a round of golf with.
Rudolf used something like 88 players in his stint as coach. As for Harry he wanted to play candyfloss rugby and was far too influenced by his Aussie mates.
What I am saying is that Jake was a great manager and one with conviction. I don’t however say he ranks as one of the greatest coaches. He had a group of players that only comes around once in a generation.
Remember the WP team of the 80′s. Won the CC 5 years in a row. People were saying that Dawie Snyman was the best coach in the world. I say that WP probably had the best players in the world at that time. Du plessis brothers , Mallet , Rob Louw , Hempies , Povey , Henning , Bekker , Div Visser , Divan etc.
After that side Snyman went on to achieve the square root of F… All
4 Feb 2008, 19:28 pm
#37 Stodders
I fully agree with that. You are spot on.
The current England gameplan is actually killing their players. Vickery et al look like broken men. Physically they look very tired and jaded. Putting one’s body on the line in the English style shortens their careers. I see Vickery retiring at the end of the season. How many games has he actually completed lately ? I think not one
4 Feb 2008, 19:30 pm
#38 pauld,
See what you’re saying ja. Jake wasn’t the most innovating and never brought in a **** load of new ideas every second week. But man management, that was above par. He really had the players playing for him and their teammates. But getting that out of the players, the only way to have done that is to stick to a core group. Well, core group to him was almost the whole group!
But like you rightly mentioned, Rudolf using almost 100 guys, would you be able to play like that, really trust your inside center to make the tackle, you just might loose your spot come next saturday!
The WP team of 80′s seen some of them play towards the end of their careers, Divan was operated on me a couple of times, only saw old footage of him (I was only born in ’80).
4 Feb 2008, 19:32 pm
London Sunday Times article by Stephen Jones
The gleaming South Africa team that won the World Cup may or may not have been an all-time great side but they certainly possessed great players. In his four years in charge and after taking over the team at a desperate, embarrassing low point, Jake White had twice been named world coach of the year, the team had won the TriNations, individuals were catapulted to high honours and the green machine came back to Johannesburg Airport with the biggest trophy of all. Hail the conquering hero.
Or not. In those four years, for his pains, White spent most of his time in a nest of vipers, a miasma of horrible South African rugby politics, with jockeying presidents, self-serving managers and people who, in his recent book, White describes as “only interested for what they could siphon out of itâ€. He was almost sacked several times, he once went to his office to find that he had been moved out to a glorified cubby hole, he was accused of racism, he was treated abominably. For me, in all the circumstances, his feat of winning the world title, at considerable cost to himself and continual harassment, constitutes one of the greatest coaching feats that rugby has seen.
When we met on Friday, White kept on referring to “themâ€, the opposition. He did not mean England, his opponents in the final, the team he respected but palpably did not fear. He meant the shadowy forces ranged against him at home, pulling the strings of his employers on the South African Rugby Union [SARU]. Who were they? “I never really found out. It was never completely apparent.â€
Ostensibly, the goal was to repackage the Springboks as a transformation team, with many more nonwhite faces. It was a goal which White readily espoused. But the problem lay in the fact that South Africa’s Currie Cup and Super 14 teams have failed almost completely to produce Test-class nonwhite players. SARU, which seemed to collapse in intrigue every few weeks (and still is to this day), started nudging White. Initially, there were polite requests, perhaps to replace Fourie de Preez at scrum-half with Bolla Conradie, the coloured scrum-half. This then escalated. “I was delighted to support the principle of nonwhite players in the Springbok team, but it quickly became prescriptive orders. They were asking me to choose specific people and I wasn’t having that. This is where the frustration began to grow between us and them.â€
Effectively, the officials started blaming White, whose task was to win games at the highest level with the Springboks, for the failure of development programmes going back a decade.
It escalated into accusations that White was racist simply because he would not choose inferior players in the furnace of Test rugby. “Teams like the All Blacks target weaker players ruthlessly.†This fact and the odd poor result condemned White to a barrage of angry meetings with the President’s council of the union. He was once ordered home in the middle of a tour of England to face them and, as he recalls, he spent half his life sitting outside meeting rooms like some kind of naughty schoolboy.
In the week leading up to the World Cup final (“they were terrified that I was going to winâ€), he was in turmoil. “What was I going to do next? Try to carry on with the Springboks, go and coach offshore or was I even going to carry on coaching at all?†But as soon as the final whistle blew on the Springbok triumph, so the cares fell away. “It all suddenly looked completely different. The whole value system had changed.â€
The career coach from way back (in a school essay in his teens, he had expressed a dream to coach South Africa) had done it all. “Suddenly, I could not see myself standing in the pouring rain with a whistle in my mouth. I never wanted to compare the next team with what I had just had. I understood far better what had happened to Clive Woodward after England won in 2003. He would have compared his next lock and captain to Martin Johnson and it would have been totally unfair. You want your next group of players to be the same, but they cannot be.â€
So all the rumours that he was about to sign for any one of a raft of 10 coaching posts were not true. He had been approached by international teams, including England and Wales, and by a large number of clubs in Europe. The original approach from Twickenham had been to fill the elite performance director post.
“England were clever. They asked me if I was interested through a headhunting company they use so that they would not be in breach of existing contracts. But I found out that Eddie Jones and Nick Mallett had also been approached and, when we spoke together, we concluded that the more prominent names they could put on their shortlist, the more of an elite job it would look. It was always going to go to an English guy.â€
White walked away. He is now employed by a major South African company to look after corporate clients, to close deals and “open doors for bigger dealsâ€. Interestingly, he is about to discuss a development role with the International Rugby Board. It would espouse a cause dear to his heart – the need to get more nations up to speed. “I would like to go to places like Spain, where they are trying to become more competitive, to talk about what the national team does, to help their elite coaches with new ideas.â€
He is a keen student of England rugby, and maintains his friendship with Woodward. He admitted that he spent few sleepless hours worrying about England’s attacking potential. “Way before the World Cup the talk was that under Ashton, England were reverting to the Bath way and playing expansive rugby. In the warm-up games they brought in Mathew Tait, Mike Brown and Toby Flood. But as the World Cup wore on you could see they were changing back. There was no way they could surprise us with the players they had. They were not going to come up with anything special.â€
His book created shockwaves in his country. His own low point, and the wildest revelation, concerns the Watson family. Luke Watson, a mediocre white player with Western Province (in my view he would not be among the first eight choices in the Wasps back row), was a hero of the shadowy forces, and White faced continual demands to pick him for the Boks. Watson was the son of Cheeky Watson, the famous white player who became a hero to the black community when playing nonwhite rugby in the apartheid era. One day, a lawyer representing the Watsons gave White a set of proposals – Luke Watson would be chosen for the team, for the World Cup, and so on, and in exchange the Watsons would ensure that White stayed in his post.
Nobody ever explained how the Watsons could guarantee this and White was so shaken that he almost signed. “It was the low point. It was a threat. It was the most difficult time of my life. All the passion I had put in, all the goal-setting. All the slaps I had taken. Suddenly I had to decide whether to walk away. I can’t say I felt sorry for Luke either. He was part of it, he knew exactly what was going on.
“I looked at Luke to see if I was missing something. He was not a good player.†Against his better judgment, he picked Watson once, in a Test against Samoa. The rest of the team felt insulted.
Now, the next stage. Peter de Villiers, a supposed ally of White but who attacked his section policy, is in as the new coach, the first nonwhite to coach the Springboks. Unsurprisingly, De Villiers is no longer claiming, as he once loudly did, that he will pick rafts of nonwhites, just that he will pick on merit. I pointed out to White that in his book, he had only mentioned De Villiers once. “Was it once? I would rather not have mentioned him at all.â€
Was it all worth it? White does not answer immediately. “Yes, the achievements were worth all the negative stuff. I may have lost the board once or twice. I may have lost the media once or twice and the supporters too. But I never, ever lost the changing room. I may have dropped a player of colour or an Afrikaner, but nobody ever went to the board to rubbish me – and people even went to the players to try to make them do it. I never lost the players.†Or his dignity. Or, for that matter, the World Cup.
In Black and White, The Jake White Story, by Jake White and Craig Ray, hb, £12.99, is published by Zebra Press, http://www.zebra-press.co.za
White’s CV
- White was voted IRB International Coach of the Year in both 2004 and 2007
- As coach of the Springboks, he had a winning ratio of 67%, with 36 wins in 54 games with one draw and 17 defeats
- His book has sold 210,000 copies to date in South Africa – outselling the last instalment of Harry Potter, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
- He took the Springboks from sixth in the IRB world rankings in 2004 to first in 2007, ending New Zealand’s 40-month reign at the top
- He was coach of the Springbok Under21 side that won the World Cup in 2002
4 Feb 2008, 19:38 pm
Train,
I stopped when I read “article by Stephen Jones”.
Grade A tw*t.
4 Feb 2008, 19:50 pm
So did I until I read this article. Now I think he is great…(no double standards here)
4 Feb 2008, 19:50 pm
Winston, i couldn’t register either, so i e-mailed them (the e-mail adress is somewhere on the front page) and they asked me to choose an username and pw and registered me via e-mail
4 Feb 2008, 19:52 pm
#44
The reason they don’t take online registration anymore is because the spammers target them. Enlargemnet ads etc. They respond pretty quickly to an email request and you can get set up in about 5 minutes
4 Feb 2008, 19:53 pm
Send an email to : webmaster@hsm.co.za
4 Feb 2008, 20:12 pm
Train,
He got the players he wanted to the world cup, and with the world’s eyes watching, he proceeded to pick the players he wanted, backing himself in thinking that the jokers back in SARU HQ wouldn’t sack him, or else they would be ridiculed internationally at the biggest event in rugby rather than just domestically by the likes of Keo.
Stay quiet, save face and get rid of the coach afterwards was what they bargained on, for surely the hot favourites NZ would win the title and save them from effectively sacking a world cup winning coach. It didn’t quite work out for them.
However, for all White’s achievements, that article is a little too sycophantic, and conveniently forgets some of the cr*p selections and decisions that cost White public support during his tenure. It reminded me of the way Jones used to write about Woodward and his England and only write about the positives as if Woodward and England could do no wrong.
In fairness to White, he was almost an angel when compared to the horde of demons he faced at SARU and the Presidents Council, a man who solely wanted to coach rather than be dragged through a political bunfight every day.
White did very well indeed to survive for 4 years and indeed, did very well to get the squad and coaching team he wanted to the world cup. That was his biggest achievement for me given the politics playing out at home.
As soon as the Boks were in France and far enough away from the children in SARU, they and their coaches were afforded the luxury of just concentrating and playing rugby. A few consistent performances later, and the Boks had the trophy and White had his moral victory over the goons of SARU.
4 Feb 2008, 20:19 pm
What is happening here? Are we all once again accepting the totalatarian decisions being taken in our Game?
4 Feb 2008, 20:21 pm
Stodders, Jake wasn’t perfect but he did far more good than bad. SARU are a bunch of snakes and when Mad Mike takes charge I think it will get worse.
Personally, I can’t wait until PdV gets his first phone call or message via Zola from MM saying that he should drop so and so (lily white) for so so (not lily white). Then we are going to see what he is made of!
Lastly, I’m glad that Jake is getting the plaudits he deserves. Can only agree that Cheeky, Mad Mike, Zola and Luke were most probably gutted when the Boks actually won the WC.
4 Feb 2008, 20:29 pm
Told this story before on here (chances that anyone of you saw it, not too good, maybe posted on here 5 times before, been reading the blogs since day one though.)
I got so much respect for John Smit in one sentence I spoke to him. Was at a function at Newlands cricket ground (that Keo.co.za hosted) with Nick Mallet analyzing the AB vs Lions tests like he would with his players. That was very insightfull, but totally different story alltogether.
It was the Thursday before we played the AB’s at Newlands in 2004. I walked up to John Smit as he was on his way into the dressing room and asked him: “Are we gonna win on Saturday?”
He looked me straight in the eye and said: “We’ll just have to.”
You won’t believe how inspiring those words were, I swear, I was ready to run onto that field and tackle Lomu from in front! That’s why I think we mustn’t discard him.
4 Feb 2008, 20:33 pm
Guys we are sitting around complaining about some elite running our game! Come on join in uniting the supporters! Click on my nick!
4 Feb 2008, 20:42 pm
Werner, your surname not Greeff by any chance?
4 Feb 2008, 20:44 pm
Gary Botha was never good enough anyway. He was lucky to be a Bok and should be grateful he had a chance. As expected, he couldn’t cut the mustard.
John Smit and Bismark Du Plessis are far, far better hookers.
4 Feb 2008, 20:45 pm
I’ve been messing around Toutube a bit, do yourselves a favour and go look for some of Richard Prior’s stand up comedy stuff…….. freegin funny
Also Eddie Murphy & Chris Rock……
Hehehehe
4 Feb 2008, 20:46 pm
Sorry Richard Pryor…
4 Feb 2008, 20:54 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would consider discarding a world cup winning captain, and all the experience and leadership he can bring to the team. Has John Smit suffered a career ending injury in France? No. Is John Smit Johan Ackerman’s age? No. So what’s the debate?
4 Feb 2008, 21:04 pm
John Smit is not the best hooker in the country, even at the Sharks he was rotated with Bismark because his physique could not endure 80 minutes of punishment week in and week out, whether he is the best captain in the country is up to debate, far as Jake was concerned he was. now its another chapter and quite a different ball game or kettle of fish going to be frying from here on, does he have the tenacity, and athleticism to sustain the challenge, who would know, maybe only he would deep down?
4 Feb 2008, 21:14 pm
#52 skopskiet, no, i’m not greeff…
4 Feb 2008, 21:36 pm
How did I guess you’d take that view Skopskiet.
4 Feb 2008, 22:24 pm
Snippets from A South African Rugby View blogsite
Jake White did a magnificent job to haul the Boks back from where they were. Under Viljoen and Streauli it seemed that we believed that belief was enough – if we believed that we were the best, then the rest would follow. Jake White brought the sticky tape and plaster to help us improve the reality. He recognised that South African passion, defence and strong set-pieces were strengths to re-establish confidence and a base from which to build.
Arrogance is belief that ignores the facts. And just as Streauli and Viljoen showed arrogance with no apparent plan, Jake’s arrogance appears to have been total belief in his plan.
The facts have shown that we have been less than a threat to the All Blacks. Yes, we more than others have competed against the Kiwis away from their home, but while coming close a few times, we have a terrible win-loss record away from our home turf. But beyond the mere facts of our away win-loss ratio that stands won 1 lost 9 against the major rugby powers under Jake White, it is the way we have played that tells another story.
The Jake White Plan was enough to get us to number two because of the reliance on passion and physicality – two attributes that allow us to beat most sides. But they would never be enough to establish us as number one. The Australians have worked for years on building high-skill attacking rugby. While their forward game has not allowed them the strength of possession to truly unleash this, the names of their backs over the last ten years shows some of the most skillful guys yet to play the game. The All Blacks do physical and passionate rugby well, but they have also had backs who have out-skilled and out-thought the Boks.
Jake White’s arrogance was his failure to recognise this. He might point to injuries, transformation and his starting position as mitigating factors to his team’s current fall from grace, but to do so ignores what could have been done and what has not.
4 Feb 2008, 22:28 pm
more,…
White has turned around the procession of Springbok players that marked the Streauli reign. But the faith shown in his capped players has contributed to some baffling selections and some might say contributed to the lack of depth and experienced combinations.
There are so many excuses that have been offered for the Boks increasingly fragile looking state. Foremost of White’s have been lack of cooperation from the Super 14 franchises and lack of power to make things happen. No South African coach has ever had more power than Jake White, and it is difficult to see how the franchises could be asked to do more than give up their star players in the manner enabled by SARU.
4 Feb 2008, 22:34 pm
sarugbyview.blogspot.com/2006/07/jake-white-maybe-its-time-you-went.html
This article was written before the WC, i found it a intresting read.
“Another option is to appoint a mentor to White. Formally promoting McIntosh to this role from selector might help give someone the power to question White’s logic and provide more advice. McIntosh is the logical candidate due to White’s willingness to work with him. Naas Botha is another. White is likely to refuse to work with Mallet or Alan Solomons, two other possible candidates. Du Plessis does not present himself as a likely mentor due to his amenable nature”
“Appointing a mentor is my preferred option. I have a preference for Mallet because I believe the Boks and White need a rocket lit under them and Mallet is the most likely to give it. But Mallet and White don’t talk much. Botha represents the likely candidate”
At the end the mentor was EJ.
4 Feb 2008, 22:38 pm
I see the Lions have lost their captain Ernst Joubert, as well as Willem Alberts for the first part of the S14. Both were injured in the Bulls game in Windhoek.
News from the Bulls camp is that Habana did not break a rib, its just bruised, and he should be ready to play against the Stormers.
Tough times for the Lions, it seems.
4 Feb 2008, 22:41 pm
skoppie
i have to say i was a big fan of john smit when he came onto the scene. i thought his mobility and technical game was really good and he had the potential to develop into a test player.
not long after that i met a saffa guy who went to school with john smit, and got the impression that smit was a class oke capable of leading a good team.
then i started doubting smit’s ability. his form was rubbish, and he wasnt getting the basics as well as i like them done. he was falling off tackles. he was no where on the field in terms of workrate when i compared him to cannon, mealamu, steve thompson, ibanez, oliver. then came 2007. the guy stood up. you cant ignore how much his game lifted. and the best part is that his teammates saw it, it inspired them to follow him.
regardless of the WC win. his 2007 season was massive as a player on the field. for me, he then stood well above all the other hookers in the country, and the world.
his rotation at the sharks was merely muir getting bismark experience and blooding him in.
compare the 2 saffa WC winning captains and you have to see the contribution on the field by smit is far higher than pienaar. both were inspirational, but you can just see the influence smit has, that pienaar didnt. we all knew that pienaar was not the best in his position, he was average but a darn good captain. smit was best in his position and became the best captain over his reign.
4 Feb 2008, 23:28 pm
super its incredibly funny or coincidental that i was reading and commenting exactly on that very piece i found same time as you and remarking how the mentor that Jake needed he eventually succumbed to accepting his own lack by turning to EJ, because his ego would never have allowed him to turn to Nick or Naas or Carel or Ian Mack, but a mentor he seriously needed without a doubt, and thankfully one was ready and available to bail him out of his sorry spiral.
4 Feb 2008, 23:44 pm
A little bit of reality checking
October 19, 2007
In the tournament, South Africa has played only one other team in the top group – sixth-placed England. All their other matches were against relatively inconsequential teams such as Tonga, Fiji, and the United States. Now it turns out that by playing and beating the 6th placed team twice, South Africa will have done enough to propel themselves into the number one spot. More bizarrely, should England win by 15 or more points tomorrow, they will jump to number one. Now admittedly, England will have done more to earn this by beating three higher-ranked teams: Australia, France, and maybe South Africa.
But under either scenario, the new number one team will have risen to the top without beating the team that has been ranked number one since 2004. This could happen because the IRB puts a premium on RWC Finals. You win a World Cup Final and your ranking’s going to get an extra boost. Fair enough, only the premium is a hefty 100%. In short, the rankings after Saturday may say less about the relative strengths of teams and more about the IRB’s fiddling with the numbers. Because of the way the IRB will weight this one game, the Springboks are on the verge of rising above the All Blacks in the world rankings. This will happen despite;
1. …having a worse win-loss ratio for 2007
2. …having a worse win-loss ratio for 2006
3. …having a worse win-loss ratio for 2005
4. …having lost four of their last five games to the All Blacks
5. …having lost more games in each of the past three years
The IRB folk have made some classic blunders in this tournament, but putting a 100% premium on the RWC Final takes the cake. Thanks to their collective wisdom, the number 2 team is about to become the number 1 team by beating the number 6 team.
4 Feb 2008, 23:51 pm
skopskiet THANK YOU!!!
It would appear that commonsense is not a requirement on this site. there is no way SA is the best team in the world! New Zealand hasnt won the WC since 87′, but that doesnt change the fact that they are the best!
And ‘Train’, take your head out of jakes arse. It cant be comfortable for him…
4 Feb 2008, 23:52 pm
SS you have a lot of stats on Jake , i was wondering how many players did Jake use in his 4 years.
I had those stats but my computer drive packed up so i lost all that database. I remember in my last “investigation” on that matter that Jake picked a few players in his first year and some of them only reapeared in his last year. One that comes to mind is Aswin, although injured. Another possible one/s will be Sepaka or even Julies.
How long did Strauli coach and how many boks played for him?
5 Feb 2008, 02:16 am
wow skop – still hijacking posts with your anti-jake crusade. you must be frothing at the mouth by now.
as for Gary Botha – i dont recall anyone outside of pretoria ever rating this guy. and those that did wanted him in purely because they had issues with smit.
smit will continue as bok captain and hooker this year, being replaced probably by bismarck with chilli as understudy in time.
lets hope we also see some of brits’s early promise shown again this season. not a tight hooker by any means – but what a player to have on your bench.
5 Feb 2008, 05:54 am
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhh k*k here we go again, skopskiet mouthing off about white like some friggn luney with a hate obsession. Borring!
For the record, zman, the AB’s are not NO1. It is only pure arrogance on your part that says they are. It was one of the reasons why the kiwis in general got a pasting on this blog………the arrogant attitude they had before the WC. Ended up with mud on their faces. Especially those d*cks who only purchased WC Final tickets………why can you not just be gracious and accept the fact that you need to beat the Boks to regain the No1 status. I’m not saying it is not going to happen, especially with a new coach, probably new players and new rules, but hey only then you can gloat.
Otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes!!
Oh BTW, I think GB is a k*k player..
5 Feb 2008, 05:58 am
Hehehe more whatever!
5 Feb 2008, 06:02 am
The thing is, you either agree with the concept of a WC or you don’t. There is a very logical reason why the WC counts for double the points of any other game, it is not easy to win, simple as that. Just ask the ABs, they have not done it in 20+ years…
5 Feb 2008, 06:12 am
More boys
Feck it is cold & miserable here
Back of the boys in Black or I will tell everyone about that *** p*rn movie you starred in …
5 Feb 2008, 06:18 am
More Princess, never knew whatever is a ‘movie star’, let alone one of THOSE ones…
Come visit Brisbane, nice albeit a little wet…
PS Did you manage to get your email address to Manly?
PPS Have you registered on superbru? Time to walk the walk…
5 Feb 2008, 06:19 am
Princess do you know how you tell the difference between summer and winter in NZ?
In summer the raindrops are warmer.
Have a good one,gotta go.
5 Feb 2008, 06:28 am
More Koosie
What makes you think I was talking to Whatever ?
Brisbane sounds tempting – I could visit my god son on Hope Island
My niece started school this week – I asked her father if he was attaching a warning label for the teacher ! She looks like butter would not melt in her mouth (blond hair huge blue eyes & a sweet SWEET smile) but has a simply unholy level of determination & is completely without fear – not a really good combo for the poor unsuspecting teacher
Not did not get email to Manly – he scared me off with his talk of stalkers & Fernly
Have not registered … my problem is I cannot be unemotional about my picks – I pick em because I want them to win, not necessarily because they have the skills to do so. I hate coming last
well in competitions anyway 
5 Feb 2008, 06:28 am
Fern
Typical … a drive by.
5 Feb 2008, 06:32 am
Well it can’t be me so it must be him…
The good teachers are up to it, don’t worry. For the rest, its their problem.
I have registered and don’t worry, it takes a special effort to come last….
Aish
5 Feb 2008, 06:39 am
Princess I dont have much time,spend some time with you and you make all rude remarks in return.
You carry on like this I may well change my mind and not knock you up.
Awaiting your apology,babes.
5 Feb 2008, 06:39 am
If you say so …
You have to love DVD shopping HKG where the “genuine copy” man delivers – for A$4 each
Little madam is 5 going on 30 years old & probably to clever for her own good. On her 4th birthday I gave her a puzzle designed for 6-8 years olds thinking (mistakenly) we could do it together. She insisted on going it alone & returned 8 mins later to ask “did you got me something else because I finished it already ?”.
Ok, I will think about it … got a link ?
What ?
5 Feb 2008, 06:41 am
Fernly good morning
OOOOOHHHHHH EEEEEEWWWWWWW :SHOCK:
I tell you what – why don’t you hold your breath while waiting for that apology ?
5 Feb 2008, 06:44 am
How bout i suck that apology out of you?:lol:
really got go babes,will reply to your emails later.
5 Feb 2008, 06:47 am
Fern
No, just more of OOOOOHHHHHH EEEEEEWWWWWWW
5 Feb 2008, 06:49 am
Koos
Gott run … lunch date … Chinsese New Year is a very social time … Okay, that & I kicked off an archive /compact on my email that seems to be culling about 2.5 years worth of sent mail becasue I hit the wrong key
so I may as well “lunch” 
5 Feb 2008, 06:52 am
w w w dot superbru dot com
Search for keo and you should find it or wait a little and superBul will post the code.
5 Feb 2008, 06:54 am
Tot later Princess.
5 Feb 2008, 08:06 am
Come on Gary be fair, you were give the chances to prove that you were the understudy to John Smit and you played kak, look at the Tonga and Connacht games.
Comment by Loosehead : February 4, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
Didnt Bismarck play against Connacht?? Wasnt that the game where he hit that guy?
And didnt GB only come on as replacement against Tonga?
5 Feb 2008, 09:34 am
Skop & crew,
You can say what you wantm JW still won the RWC with John Smit as captain. He instilled belief and confidence in the players.
Tactitus – Nick Mallet lost the world cup with a better squad (man for man) than JW. He came of 17 consecutive tests in a row and should have been a certanty to win the RWC. What happened? He dropped the captain (his view, another player was better) and the team lost self belief and confidence.
I guess that people management is more important.
Finally – to those who are commenting about JS, just listen to what the players say about the Captain. Secondly, all the players backed JW even when the presidents council were trying to undermine him. This shows how strong the unit was. Who created that?
Talk of the Kiwi’s being the best all you want. If you are the bestm you need to win when it counts. I say it again, is it the fault of JW, JS or even SARFU that the Boke did not play either Australia, France or NZ at the RWC 2007?
5 Feb 2008, 09:36 am
Supa Die Blou
Gary is a fine hooker, but was shown up in the Tri Nations when Smit went off injured. Unfortunately, he is nowhere near as influencial as Smittie.
Mealamu rates Smit as the best hooker in the world. He says that the Boks are a totally different pack with him.
Interresting that.
5 Feb 2008, 10:47 am
Ryan
Peter made it clear on TV last night that he will not be meeting with any players.
He will be talking to the players through their coaches.
5 Feb 2008, 18:14 pm
Smitty ,Bismark ……no-one really matches them !!!!!
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