De Villiers: Believe in me
7 Mar 2008
Even the bad times are good for new Bok coach Peter de Villiers.
There are no photos on the walls of Jake White’s former office at Saru headquarters in Newlands. Nails, hammered in at various angles, balls of dried Prestik and traces of double-sided tape are the only evidence that this room was once well decorated. On the modest pine desk is a laptop, a silver pen and pencil set and a telephone. The comfortable-looking black chair behind the desk is the only sign of luxury in a room that now belongs to Peter de Villiers.
The new Bok coach is stuck in traffic and I’m sitting alone at a round table next to the desk. It’s only after a couple of minutes that I notice the small picture frame. In it is a poem. After two weeks in the job, this is the only personal item De Villiers has brought with him from his Paarl home. The words reveal a lot about its owner.
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF
You are your greatest asset,
There’s nothing you can’t do.
No one can keep you from dreaming,
Only you can make them come true.
What you achieve is determined
By the desire you possess.
There is no better feeling
Than the feeling of success.
Believe in who you are
And what you do,
Don’t leave things up to fate,
It’s strictly up to you.
When De Villiers walks in, I shake his hand and ask how he is. “Even the bad times are good,” he says with a smile, before pulling up a chair.
Interviewing the new Bok coach is like having a verbal joust. When I ask questions he’s comfortable with, he gives insightful, intelligent answers. But when I ask anything controversial, he either deflects the question with a question of his own or uses a range of metaphors.
De Villiers was born in Paarl in 1957 – nine years after the introduction of apartheid. When he was a child, his family was forced to leave their comfortable home because of the Group Areas Act.
He was a small child, but he refused to be bullied. “You know, there’s no fight like a fight with no rules,” he says. “I never allowed kids to push me around then, and I don’t let people push me around today. You don’t need a big body to have a lot of brains, you know.”
De Villiers began playing rugby at the age of nine, represented Boland Schools in primary and high school and made his provincial debut while studying to become a teacher. Later on, he was invited to Saru trials but missed out on selection for the non-racial national team.
He has no regrets about his playing career, even though he did not play Currie Cup and Test rugby.
“If white people didn’t want me to live among them, why would I want to play with them?” he says. “Rugby was only one part of my life, not my life. By not playing in white competitions, I was telling them I didn’t like the way they treated my people. However, those black players that chose to play with whites were not traitors. A traitor is someone who sells his country out. I decided to stay; my best friend – who played flyhalf in my team – chose to go, and we are still friends today. He later told me that the people [in white rugby] were dishonest with him and he wasn’t treated well.”
When asked about apartheid and the affect it had on him, De Villiers tells two stories. The first is about his family being forcibly removed from their home by the apartheid police. The second was later in life when he was a teacher and a respected member of his community. De Villiers was pushing his eldest daughter on the swings in a park when a white security guard threw them out. “He treated us like dogs,” he recalls. “But apartheid affected the lives of all South Africans – black and white. If you were a white person, you were not allowed to mix with black people. You can’t be a holistic person if you don’t interact with people from all walks of life.”
De Villiers, as the poem on his desk confirms, believes in himself. He also loves himself a lot.
“Loving myself enables me to love others and congratulate them when they achieve something,” he says. “I know what I want from life, and I always back my own abilities. I’m not afraid to use the expertise of others, but most of the time I rely on myself.”
De Villiers says his top priority in life is God, “because God is everywhere”, but admits his other priorities are determined by circumstance. “My job could be my top priority today, and my family tomorrow. When I wake up in the morning, I decide what my priorities will be for the day.”
While he gets on with most people, he often clashes with those who are economical with the truth. “I don’t like dishonest people. I tend to interfere in their affairs,” he explains.
De Villiers was always going to coach after he stopped playing rugby. “I knew I had something to offer other players,” he says. De Villiers enjoyed instant success with the SA Correctional Services and SA Colleges sides, before being approached by Tygerberg. After two years with the Cape Town club, he was appointed coach of the Western Province Disas, the union’s senior B team. However, although he took the Disas to three consecutive finals, he was never considered to coach Western Province’s Currie Cup team (he was only made an assistant coach in 1998).
I ask De Villiers if this lack of opportunity, early in his coaching career, frustrated him. Does he believe WP used him just to add colour to their coaching staff? Was there ever a plan to groom him to become the Currie Cup head coach?
“There’s nothing I can do if people are dishonest,” he says. “I don’t get cross if people don’t believe in me, because that’s their view. I got a job at WP and I was successful in that job. That’s all that mattered to me.
“As for only being an assistant coach, you don’t have to be a pilot to fly from Cape Town to Durban; you can be the co-pilot too. You still get to your destination safely.”
However, De Villiers was given a chance to coach internationally at age-group level – his SA U19 team finished third at the 1999 World Championship. Although he was also an assistant with the Bulls in the 2001 Super 12, no provincial union approached him to coach their senior side. It was only in 2002 that the Falcons finally gave him a break.
When he left the Brakpan-based union in 2004, there were allegations of racism, a claim the coach denies.
“Those three years at the Falcons made me the coach I am today,” he says. “It was a tough three years, though, because I lost 33 players and had a budget of R1.2 million compared with the R10 million at the disposal of the previous coach. But I’m grateful for the opportunity they gave me.”
When SA U21 coach Jake White got the Bok job in 2004, De Villiers was given another opportunity on the world stage. His Baby Boks finished third at the World Championship that year, won it in 2005 and finished second in 2006.
Yet in 2007, De Villiers was still waiting for another opportunity to coach at Currie Cup or Super 14 level. Instead, he worked as a consultant to Maties first team in Stellenbosch, and the club won the WP Super A League and the National Club Championships. Later in the year, he took the Emerging Springboks to Romania and won the IRB Nations Cup. When he returned home, he was amazed by the low-key reception the team received. Even more hurtful was the fact that no-one from Saru contacted him to offer their congratulations.
De Villiers was close to Newlands rugby stadium when he received the call from SA Rugby CEO Johan Prinsloo. “Hi Peter, Johan here. I need you to come to the fourth floor of the Sports Science Institute for a press conference. You’ve got the job.”
“I cannot describe the way I felt at that moment,” recalls De Villiers. “I had prepared myself for both eventualities, but I was still blown away by the enormity of it all.”
At just after 1.30pm, De Villiers walked into his first Springbok press conference wearing the Bulls blazer he’d earned in 2001. After facing the media – and hearing Saru president Oregan Hoskins admit that transformation had played a part in his selection – De Villiers drove home to find his house covered in Bok flags and messages from well-wishers scribbled on the windows in white wash-off paint.
At that moment De Villiers realised just how close his community really was.
The new Bok coach had switched off his cellphone before entering the Bok press conference and turned it on only later that night when things had calmed down. On his voicemail was a message from Jake White, wishing him all the best.
I ask De Villiers if he spoke to any of the other contenders in the days that followed. “Chester [Williams] was the only one who phoned me and we had a good chat. If I had missed out on the Bok job, I definitely would have called whoever got it and said well done.”
If De Villiers had spoken to Heyneke Meyer – who he edged 10-9 in the President’s Council vote – what would he have said? “I’d have told him to get on with his life,” he replies.
De Villiers won’t divulge the details of his presentation to the coaching committee, which recommended his name to the President’s Council. “I’ve been told it’s confidential,” he says. “But I can tell you I made them a couple of promises. I promised I would do everything in my power to ensure the Boks stay No 1 in the world, and I promised to take the game to the people.”
He aims to keep his promises by playing an expansive style of rugby – the total opposite of what we came to expect from Jake White’s Boks.
“Structure in rugby came from Australia, a country which doesn’t have a lot of rugby talent,” he explains. “I believe the more talent you have, the less structure there should be. We have a massive amount of talent in South Africa and I want to give them the freedom to express themselves. I want my players to be the best they can be, on and off the field.”
I ask De Villiers whether he thinks the Boks can realistically expect to beat the All Blacks at their own game. Under White, the Boks won three Tests against the arch-enemy by dominating up front and playing to a set structure – not by throwing the ball around.
“You’ll get your answer in July [during the Tri-Nations],” De Villiers replies. “I believe we can beat the All Blacks with an expansive approach. We just need to have a positive mindset. If we can be successful with a negative mindset – as has often been the case in the past – imagine what we could achieve with a positive one.”
Another White trait was to favour tall, big backs (Jean de Villiers, Frans Steyn, Butch James etc) over pocket rockets such as Brent Russell. Can the smaller provincial player in South Africa now dream of Bok selection under De Villiers?
“Let me put it this way,” he says. “A small talented guy will always be better than a big untalented guy, and a big talented guy is better than a small talented guy. I will select the best player for the job.”
Perhaps White’s greatest achievement was to create a winning culture with the Boks. So it’s good to know that De Villiers is a very bad loser. He says he can’t even handle losing a game of marbles and doesn’t know how he’ll react if his Boks lose a Test in front of a global audience.
“The Boks play 12 Tests this year, and I want to win all 12. One loss in a season is one too many. Any defeat hurts me,” he says.
There are those who say De Villiers is in a no-win situation. If he wins every game in 2008, he’ll have done it with the team Jake built. If the Boks start to lose, he’ll be the coach who stuffed up the world champions. De Villiers, however, refuses to accept that.
“No, no, no, no,” he says loudly. “If we win all our games, it shows we’ve built on the winning culture created by Jake. If we lose, perhaps it’s because there have been a few changes and we are busy rebuilding. So I think I’m in a win-win situation.”
I’ve saved the most hard-hitting questions of the interview for last, and as they start coming De Villiers gets more agitated and his answers more evasive.
“When the Boks struggled under Jake White in 2006, his kids copped abuse at school. Have you warned your daughters what could happen if you go through a bad patch?”
“No, why would I do that? We’re only going to have good times this year.”
“When will you pick your Bok captain?”
“After we’ve chosen the first match 22 on merit. I can tell you one thing, though: one of those 22 players will be the captain.”
“Do you rate Luke Watson?”
“I don’t want to discuss Luke Watson because it will put pressure on him. Why didn’t you ask me about Gcobani Bobo? Don’t you want to know about Bobo?”
“No, I don’t.”
“Then leave Watson out of this interview because he’s the same as any player to me.”
“Do you have a relationship with Cheeky Watson?”
“Definitely. I am talking to you now, so I have a relationship with you too.”
“Do you have a close relationship with Cheeky Watson?”
“I only have a close relationship with my wife. [Pause] Look, I listen to most people in life and then I make a choice who makes sense to me. Cheeky Watson makes a lot of sense to me when I talk to him. He’s a very intelligent man, and he’s a very honest man.”
“According to a newspaper article last year, you said you’d select 10 blacks in the Bok starting XV.”
“I never said that. What I told the journalist is that I don’t see colour, I only see rugby players, and I will choose the best possible Bok team.”
“If the best Bok team, in your view, is all-white, will you pick it?”
“You will never, ever in your life again see an all-white team. And you will never see an all-black team either. Each race group has different skills that complement each other.”
“According to some scientific reports, the white Afrikaner is more suited to rugby than non-white players for genetic reasons. Could that explain why 13 out of the 15 Boks in the World Cup final were white?”
“That’s absolute rubbish. Over the weekend I watched a white player [Stormers centre Corne Uys] carried off the field after being tackled by a coloured player [Boland wing Alshaun Bock].”
“How will you ensure Super 14 coaches select more black players this year?”
“I believe they will do that without me interfering.”
“Wouldn’t official quotas make more sense than this gentlemen’s agreement?”
“Quotas do more harm than good. Look what quotas have done to the crayfish industry in this country. When there are official quotas, those non-white players in the team are regarded as quota players.”
When our time is up, De Villiers breaks into a smile and claps his hands together. His PR manager, Neil de Beer, walks in and gives his client a new 2008 diary, with gold-edged pages. “Wow, look at this!” De Villiers enthuses. “It’s even got my name on it!”
As I prepare to leave, they start discussing a gala banquet to be held in De Villiers’s honour in Paarl. “I spoke to [minster of sport] Makhenkesi Stofile this morning and he confirmed he’ll be there,” says De Beer. “Oh, and Ceres is sponsoring the juice.”
As I walk down the passage, I can hear De Villiers laughing.
By Simon Borchardt
This article first appeared in SA Rugby magazine. The new issue will be on sale from Wednesday, 12 March.
148 Comments
7 Mar 2008, 11:43 am
Cant say this article sheds any new light on the man.
Like him or dont like him- he is sure of himself, and is willing to fight. I think those are two great characteristics in a coach. You dont want an unsure double minded coach.
One can only hope for the best. He will be judged from our first test against Wales. Until then we can only speculate.
PS- Simon, i would have loved to hear what he thinks of Bobo….
7 Mar 2008, 11:43 am
I really hope De Villiers is successful with the Boks…
7 Mar 2008, 11:45 am
mmmmmm…. Ceres juice….. am thirsty now
7 Mar 2008, 11:45 am
According to some scientific reports, the white Afrikaner is more suited to rugby than non-white players for genetic reasons. Could that explain why 13 out of the 15 Boks in the World Cup final were white?
‘That’s absolute rubbish. Over the weekend I watched a white player [Stormers centre Corné Uys] carried off the field after being tackled by a coloured player [Boland wing Alshaun Bock].’
7 Mar 2008, 11:46 am
#2
Same here.
I would like us to beat the boks at there best,no excuses of a bad coach etc.
30+ great players will coached to smash each other,nothing like it really
7 Mar 2008, 11:47 am
Do you rate Luke Watson?’
‘I don’t want to discuss Luke Watson because it will put pressure on him. Why didn’t you ask me about Gcobani Bobo? Don’t you want to know about Bobo?’
‘No, I don’t.’
‘Then leave Watson out of this interview because he’s the same as any player to me.’
‘Do you have a relationship with Cheeky Watson?’
‘Definitely. I am talking to you now, so I have a relationship with you too.’
‘Do you have a close relationship with Cheeky Watson?’
‘I only have a close relationship with my wife. [Pause] Look, I listen to most people in life and then I make a choice who makes sense to me. Cheeky Watson makes a lot of sense to me when I talk to him. He’s a very intelligent man, and he’s a very honest man.’
‘According to a newspaper article last year, you said you’d select 10 blacks in the Bo
Hy is nogal skerp né!!!
7 Mar 2008, 11:50 am
Amen Hurricane
7 Mar 2008, 11:51 am
#5
That is “Well coached”
7 Mar 2008, 11:51 am
The article appeared before he had officialy signed a contract. Unfortunately for him he appeared on Superrugby and some of his other ramblings about 3 SA teams in top 4 of S14 also appeared in the media.
Hope he will be more careful in future with predictions. Enjoyed his take on why Argies are nr 3 in the world.” Cause the play in Europe and France and they learn to know the opponents”, then when asked that whether it means that our guys playing in France will then have a look in for Bok selection he changed his tune to saying that it won’t be good because then our players will get to know the opposition and not have the mongrel streak in them when playing against them.
Talk about speaking with a forked tongue!!!!
7 Mar 2008, 11:55 am
Comment by Hurricane : March 7, 2008 @ 11:46 am
Yes Hurricane, can’t wait.
I for one hope we can finally beat you in NZ.
7 Mar 2008, 11:58 am
He seems like a good decent man.
However, that and politics aside, the rugby intelligence needed to be successfull at this job and outsmart people like Deans and other good coaches is rare.
We are already seeing our S14 coaches being out thought, and he will be harshly judged only on results.
Only time will tell if he has the ability to win against teams like the all blacks.
One thing is for sure, it will take a rugby brain that is thinking way beyond where we are now.
I am not sure that we have anybody left in SA rugby that has this ability.
7 Mar 2008, 11:59 am
#10
Hi wpw
Excuse me if i hope you dont beat us in NZ.
You have the damn cup dont be so greedy ok
7 Mar 2008, 11:59 am
I still don’t know what his name is.
People in Paarl and Dal Josefat, and the pump attendant at the BP gas station in New Orleans, all assured me he is known as Pieter (Afr.) over there, but lately I see the English version of his name appearing more and more…
7 Mar 2008, 12:02 pm
tight head
A very likeable man indeed, according to all accounts.
The man is worshipped in CJ.
7 Mar 2008, 12:03 pm
#11
well lets hope the Bok players are good enough to help the new coach,i think he will be fine.He has great players at his disposal,only time will tell though.
Anyways logging off later all
7 Mar 2008, 12:12 pm
Can anyone confim please ? Is De Villiers a black or coloured amn ?
7 Mar 2008, 12:13 pm
Can anyone confim please ? Is De Villiers a black or coloured man ?
7 Mar 2008, 12:16 pm
Does it matter? Classified as coloured.What matters is if he will take the Boks further and give us something to shout about
7 Mar 2008, 12:20 pm
18# daniel
Right.
( Yebo17#, I see he is referred to as a ‘black man’ in the overseas press, but for me it is neither here nor there.)
7 Mar 2008, 12:25 pm
yebo
Does it really matter?
7 Mar 2008, 12:25 pm
Contrary to what a lot of people would like to believe, some of just don’t give a **** about anything other than a person’s capabilities to perform.
7 Mar 2008, 12:27 pm
I hope that he continues with the winning culture. Good luck to you Pieter and the Boks.
7 Mar 2008, 12:30 pm
Well said Daniel.
Btw, my wife and i are expecting a son and we are seriously considering the name ‘Daniel’
7 Mar 2008, 12:34 pm
Pietman,
I think the British spelling of his name is very recent – as far back as I can remember seeing his name in print it was Pieter. Anyway Pieter looks and sounds beter when coupled with de Villiers – in a rough rugby context.
7 Mar 2008, 12:39 pm
24# Bob
Yes, that was what I thought, after talking to some locals in his neck of the woods.
7 Mar 2008, 12:40 pm
Pietman.
Sorry a bit late , but I hope you enjoyed your visit.
Good to have you back here.
7 Mar 2008, 12:40 pm
wpw
Daniel is a fine name.
Believe me, I’ve been called far worse!!!
Like the wp part of your screen name. Hope it stands for Western Province
7 Mar 2008, 12:40 pm
I once read an interview of Cheeky Watson by Chris Baron in the Sunday Times and he came across as not being the sharpest tool in the shed, by a long way.
7 Mar 2008, 12:41 pm
Three SA teams in the play-offs Peter?
Any other day dreams you want to share with us?
7 Mar 2008, 12:45 pm
tight head
Tx, was lekker to see Table mountain, Newlands and Jacobsbaai again.
Not to mention all the braaivleis, kreef, sunshine and Castle!
I slept over in Durbanville last Friday (in Chanteclaire), and was thinking of you guys.
7 Mar 2008, 12:47 pm
Daniel
Now how did i know you were going to say that?
wpw are my initals…
I do however support WP.
7 Mar 2008, 12:52 pm
And Lang Giel was never ever wrong in his life.
****, we seriously need to learn from Mr.Perfect!!!
7 Mar 2008, 12:53 pm
Thats it Pietman.
You cant attach a price to that!!
7 Mar 2008, 12:55 pm
PdV will be judged on results. Can’t wait for June. Old rules, none of this mamsy pamsy tinkerbelle nonsense.
7 Mar 2008, 12:57 pm
Hello Lang Giel!
Heng, jy was ook lank weg gewees ou maat?
7 Mar 2008, 12:59 pm
Tinker Bell might be small but she’s rof. Tink would lay down her life for Peter Pan. A sprinkle of her pixie dust can make you fly.
7 Mar 2008, 13:00 pm
Yeah, hopefully he’s a good Bok Coach…
Super 14 is a bit of a Fu*KUp!!!!
7 Mar 2008, 13:02 pm
At least he is saying positive things that mostly make sense. I think he will be fair. After hearing the report that he wished to have 10 players of colour in the national side, I was dreading the possiblity of him becoming the bok coach. I’m very relieved to hear him deny saying this. Being “black” himself, he is in a better position to defend merit selection, which he seems to be all for. Being a racial selection himself, he knows how **** it feels. I get the feeling he is so tired of being associated with the colour of his skin and not just being appraised for his contribution as a human being. I think his wish is for SA to be colour blind, unlike the stofiles of this world who use race as a tool to achieve power and personal gains. Let’s embrace the guy, get behind him and wish him well. As long as we remain fixated on race, we continue to go south as a nation.
7 Mar 2008, 13:04 pm
Simon
You start off by saying:
“Even the good times are bad for new Bok coach Peter de Villiers.”
then later you quote:
‘Even the bad times are good,’ he (PDV) says with a smile, before pulling up a chair.
Now what excatly DID he say?? Is the bad times good or the good times bad???
7 Mar 2008, 13:05 pm
I hope Mr De Villiers is a moerse success.
7 Mar 2008, 13:05 pm
It’s all goooood.
7 Mar 2008, 13:06 pm
A lot of very clever people give off signs that they are sure of themselves. But they do it unobtrusively, so that it shines through without them having to say anything. Our white apartheid policy has created what Pieter de Villiers now is, and we’ve got to live with it. Sadly, it’s also true that many very stupid people are also confident, but they manifest their self worth as arrogance, and it remains to be seen which category he falls into. But one thing is sure…..whatever he turns out to be, he was not the best man for the job. And for that reason he’s going to have to prove himself beyond anything that might have been expected from a Heyneke Meyer.
7 Mar 2008, 13:08 pm
Rachel
I think he will make it ok, he is hardegat enough not to be pushed around by lightweights like Sofiles and Komphela.
This boytjie is solid and he came through the ranks the hard way.
I have faith in him, he is a Capie after all and we never fail!
7 Mar 2008, 13:10 pm
44# ‘the Stofiles’, not Sofiles.
(Faaark, I almost made the man a Greek!)
7 Mar 2008, 13:12 pm
43 – Good. I’m really looking forward to seeing him in action with the Boks.
7 Mar 2008, 13:14 pm
it’s going to be a tumultuous ride for him. He’d better pop his protein pills and put his helmet on. Though if he fails the blame should sit with the administrators who opted for his non-merit selection.
7 Mar 2008, 13:15 pm
juiz/Rachel
Who will his assistants be?
That is the key-point right now.
7 Mar 2008, 13:18 pm
i don’t know. what are the options?
7 Mar 2008, 13:20 pm
that will be key, like you sa Pietman. Who gets to decide?
7 Mar 2008, 13:22 pm
48#
There was a list of candidates posted here on keo last week, but nobody spectacular except **** Muir, as far as I can recall.
Some names from the E-Cape also, unknown to me, and Alistair is still in the mix it seems.
7 Mar 2008, 13:24 pm
47 – Just pray to God it’s not Chester.
7 Mar 2008, 13:27 pm
Well, it would be great if Muir got the job. We know he wants it. Maybe coetzee would be good too for continuity…though he was shown up by eddie. Muir would be much better. Who would you choose, Pietman?
7 Mar 2008, 13:38 pm
juiz
Don’t know bro, Muir, Carel du Plessis or Alistair (backline) for sure.
But the forwards coach is a problem, since Naka and Loffie apparently both bowed out.
Are there any good black forward coaches around in SA at the moment, because that would save us a lot of grief if we could have one?
7 Mar 2008, 13:38 pm
42# Please explain : “Our white apartheid policy has created what Pieter de Villiers now is, and we’ve got to live with it”
I seriously hope you have some itelligent answers.
7 Mar 2008, 13:42 pm
Pietman and others
His name is Peter de Villiers.
I think there is a lot of confusion with Pieter de Villiers who is of course a prop in France. Now with Peter being Afr speaking people tend to change the “Peter” into “Pieter”; and from what I have seen he is not the pedantic type to want to point out specifically that it is actually “Peter”
Yebo
Is he black or coloured?
Peter is of mixed descent hence a De Villiers in a brown body and different hair texture. Peter is thus part of the collective (political) black group of people in SA. It would have been more realistic to expect a Jean, AB or Fanie, but life is full of anomalies.
Does this make the “kruis tussen ‘n Duitser en Hollander of Fransman” also coloured? As clearly this also fits the bill of “mixed descent”
If we cascade his blackness further – like others would by saying that they’re Xhosa, Zulu then it provides insight into the man. It may point to the fact that he is Afr speaking and have RUGBY in his blood. In a rugby context it is relevant.
This is not a post-1994 rugby jobbie. We, yes notice the “we” grew up with rugby as a staple diet.
Having said this I support South Africans, as long as they are logical, reasonable, honest and excellent. It’s a generalisation I know, but I’m sure you get the crux of what I’m saying.
7 Mar 2008, 13:42 pm
I’m a young person in this country…
The more stories I read about the apartheid era, the more I see why there’s so much hate. You, white people of the past are the scum of the earth. My dad told me the other day he and his dad walked over a bridge one day to go to the Spar to go shop which was in a white area. When they walked back a 12 year old white child picked up half a brick and threw it against my grandpa’s head. Leaving a heavy gash. The child’s father came out, looked at the situation and laughed.
What kind of sick, twisted people are you? All rugby aside… What kind of so called Christians do stuff like that? So, how do you expect those people to just…forgive you now?
7 Mar 2008, 13:44 pm
“itelligent” answers! lol. that’s like spelling success wrong, fullback!
7 Mar 2008, 13:51 pm
57 Thanks for the spelling lesson and btw where do you teach? Any spelling erors /errors this time?
7 Mar 2008, 13:53 pm
so why not seek to sooth over and heal, rugbystudent, rather than perpetuating the hate you clearly dislike? How else are we going to move forward?
7 Mar 2008, 13:55 pm
errors, fullback, dont make that error.
7 Mar 2008, 13:56 pm
RugbyStudent
That is just the problem…according to you it is all white people!!
And it is not….this is the problem…you who say you are young…now come and bring the hate from the past with you……that is why SA will never change.
I got one for you to….
Mt dad was taken by black people for a hole day…..cut up and beaten…left for dead at night next to a highway!!!
Now how do you think that makes white people feel???
We ( and i mean me ) not part of apartheid need do suffer for things that happend long ago…..as a young white male in SA now….it is not easy to get a job you should get…..and once again…we as you South Africans…need to suffer for things that happend before our time….and like i said…it is the young people of today. That brings the hate with them!!
Think about it!!
7 Mar 2008, 13:58 pm
Because I’m only finding out about this stuff now!! Heal what? Its very nice and comfortable to forget and move on for you white people…but to me, there’s a reason I didn’t get to go to a school with a rugby field or go to a school where there teachers aren’t drunk or on strike.
7 Mar 2008, 14:00 pm
Steyn,
Yet, most of the money today are not with the masses it is shared between white people. And where do you think the hatred for white people come from? Did it just spontaneously arrive on this country’s doorstep? If anything young white people should hate their forefathers and spit on their legacy but ja, you won’t.
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
But one thing is sure…..whatever he turns out to be, he was not the best man for the job. And for that reason he’s going to have to prove himself beyond anything that might have been expected from a Heyneke Meyer.
Comment by ansie : March 7, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
Ansie, who was the ELECTED TECHNICAL COMMITTEES chosen candidate? Pieter De Villiers.
Hence he was according to the SARU technical criteria the best candidate.
It was a section of the Political (Presidents) Council which did not agree with the Technical Committees decision.
So who then would have been the political appointment? Heyneke as supported by minority of the Political Council OR Pieter as chosen by the elected Technical Committee?
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
61 thought you are clever . If you did’nt notice I was just being sarcastic Mr Spelling ! !
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
bud stop saying you white people!!
Why do i need to forget and move on?
I was not part of the **** in the first place!!
You don’t get the point!!
You and me…should not be suffering for things that happend in the past….do you understand that?
but hey…i am not here to chat about the past….only about rugby!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
“Peter is of mixed descent hence a De Villiers in a brown body and different hair texture.”
7 Mar 2008, 14:02 pm
sorry 65 was for julz
7 Mar 2008, 14:03 pm
Steyn and Student
believe me neither of you will win this battle … just call it quits for today?
7 Mar 2008, 14:06 pm
Dawn,
That’s my point…its so nice, warm and comfortable for white that people forgive them, right? Kumba ja, and all that. But the legacy is still there and whtie people are still benefitting from it.
Where was Heyneke Meyer when Pieter de Villiers had to vacate his home, being treated like dogs? I’m sure Heyneke didn’t benefit from the same government.
7 Mar 2008, 14:06 pm
Steyn, Rugbystudent.
I too have a story similar to #61 regarding my father’s father who was murdered and dismembered by those of a different colour. I am a young white who is about to leave this country because people can’t seem to move beyond race and hate. I feel discriminated against by the current government. The past one was not one I chose either. We need to forgive and forget and sow love to move forward.
7 Mar 2008, 14:07 pm
just pulling your leg, fullback. Having some fun, ok!
7 Mar 2008, 14:08 pm
julz and Steyn
Are you actually saying you guys and your families have it worse than non-whites had?
7 Mar 2008, 14:09 pm
Rugbystudent.
Take some advice from somebody older than you.
Right now you are part of the problem.
Go and think carefully, and seriously, it may take days or weeks or even years, but think about how you can change and become part of the SOLUTION.
7 Mar 2008, 14:09 pm
Dawn,
that is what i did, we will never see eye to eye!
7 Mar 2008, 14:10 pm
tight head
hahahaha, I’m the problem?!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:13 pm
Rugbystudent
Not saying that, you see the problem now….for you it is about we still living lekker and you are not…..look around you buddy….it is not like that anymore!
We all need to work together to make this a better place….but most think like you ( White and black )can;t get over the past and move on.
that is me for the day…i am of to Loftus…
Have a lekker weekend people……
7 Mar 2008, 14:13 pm
76.
Read carefully again what I have said.
I am not attacking you.
If you truly understand what I am telling you, then you will see the future and not be stuck in the mindset of the past.
7 Mar 2008, 14:14 pm
Wish I had money for a ticket to Loftus…
7 Mar 2008, 14:15 pm
Apartheid is not gone it’s still in the hearts and thoughts of most of You Whiteys. Just be honest to yourself. Don’t come with that **** that you were not part of it, funny that you did’nt complain back in the apartheid days?Wonder why? RugbyStudent don’t listen to some of these fools on this site cause they will justify just about anything….
PS, you do get a lot of decent and caring Whites as well.
7 Mar 2008, 14:17 pm
fullback
My anger is at those who has gone before the current generation and the fact that they are treated like heroes.
7 Mar 2008, 14:18 pm
Well rugbystudent, you have a choice.
1. dwell in the hatred of the past
2. stop playing victim, take responsibility for your life, forgive, forget, sow love and build for a better tomorrow.
the paths go in opposite directions.
7 Mar 2008, 14:18 pm
fullback,
Back in the apartheid days i was a kid.
I turned 15 in 1994.
So don’t you come with that ****!!
I am done with his….it is fools like you that f@cks up this country!!
I am out
7 Mar 2008, 14:20 pm
julz
Can you see me from your high horse?
7 Mar 2008, 14:20 pm
82.
Very well said.
7 Mar 2008, 14:21 pm
my little sister was thrown in jail because she refused to pay a bribe to two black policeman. she was beaten, thrown into the back of a cop car, her best friend was left, without drivers license, crying on the side of the road, and we have doctor’s tests to prove that they were both completely sober.
does an apartheid past give black people the right to do this to white people?
7 Mar 2008, 14:22 pm
Dawn
You liked that?
Rugbystudent
I’m gonna have to call you to order here. Calm down mate. I can understand your newfound pain but rest assured, it will take a lifetime to come to terms with. I will say a bit more later depending on how this thread pans out.
I will tell you what a Chinese lady told me one day when we had a braai in our security complex. Now me being curious to understand the psyche and behaviour of human beings this was an ideal chance to get an Oriental perspective.
So I said : So what do you make of this whole black/white thing in SA? She answered in her Oriental accent : “No, no black guy or white guy- just GOOD GUY OR BAD GUY.
Now you see there it is. They’ve thought this thing through for a few hundred years longer than us. It is therefore, in a sense, quite PRIMITIVE TO BE RACIST. It speaks of LACK OF SOCIAL AND COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT.
7 Mar 2008, 14:24 pm
Sheriff
Really? So that’s where all the answers are… Great, that makes up for everything!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
83 If you were 15 in 1994 then you know F… All ! ! Go and buy yourself a book of the bad old days of apartheid and get educated cause I doubt whether your folks will inform you of all the shamefull things of the past. Untill then don’t tell people of colour just to move on and forget the past.
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Rugbystudent
Since when have you been blogging on this site?
Relax – I’m not attacking you.
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Well, what is your choice, rugbystudent?
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Hi Sheriff.
I believe you are a social scientist and therefore am interested in your posts.
I have Chinese business partners and have spent many years travelling to China and learning about the wisdom of their human interaction in all arears of their lives.
I have learnt plenty, and continue to do so.
If only we could wave a magic wand and influence the lives of people like this young student!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:29 pm
Poppy ****! A mess.
7 Mar 2008, 14:35 pm
I would like to know what rugbystudent wants us to do, apologise, die, leave the country?
maybe we need to grovel at his feet and describe in detail how much we hate our parents?
7 Mar 2008, 14:36 pm
cheers, all. I’m out of here. Have a good weekend
7 Mar 2008, 14:36 pm
or maybe he wants to rape our woman and take our homes?
7 Mar 2008, 14:37 pm
it would seem that a government hell bent on putting whities in their place is not enough.
7 Mar 2008, 14:39 pm
Tighthead
Thanks mate. Yeah I’m a social scientist by “interest” not by “training” though as G13G may have thought I meant.
Interesting thing: Tiger Woods – by SA definition a coloured – argh, just dont like that word but anyway, refers to himself as a Caublinasian.
Cau = Caucasian
Bl – Black
In – Indian
Asian – Asian (of course)
It seems that it is politically incorrect to be Black or White these days. Should we be somewhere in between? Is that the way forward?
If so then my genes are in demand. Greater demand higher price – haha.
No man, on a serious note fullback or is that fullbLack and Rugbystudent this is not on. Come on!
7 Mar 2008, 14:44 pm
Rugbystudent displays the anger of youth.
That is understandable.
However as I have said, he needs to go and apply his intellect to thinking more deeply about the way forward.
Sometimes it is easier to take the lazy approach of remaining in the comfort zone of the victim mentality and blame the world for your lack of progress, rather than accept responsability for yourself.
7 Mar 2008, 14:46 pm
D-a-w-n-e-e, W-h-e-r-e a-r-e y-o-u ?
Did you like that? Dont be shy Dawnee …
You like the hair texture thing…
7 Mar 2008, 14:47 pm
96. No that is what YOU WHITEYS did , forcefully removed people from their houses just because they were a different colour.PLEASE don’t be stupid , we dont want to do anything to you, all you have to do is just change your mentality that’s all …
7 Mar 2008, 14:50 pm
ok, then explain why my 18 year old sister was forcibly and incorrectly jailed by two black policeman? and has several large bruises on her upper body?
7 Mar 2008, 14:51 pm
explain why, as a young white male, the only employment i can find that fits my experience is abroad?
7 Mar 2008, 14:51 pm
Sheriff.
Yes, Tiger is just a great human being and shining example to young people the world over.
Would it not be great if we judged people on nothing else, but the good qualities that someone like Tiger exudes.
Hard work.
Humanitarian.
Generous.
Honest.
Committed.
Reliable.
Imagine if we could find politicians with these qualities.
Mind you we are getting close with Patricia and Helen.
I trust those 2 ladies any day before the rest of them.
7 Mar 2008, 14:52 pm
my anger and hatred is caused by the CURRENT situation, not what happened in the past.
7 Mar 2008, 14:54 pm
Listen to a wise man.
If you want somebody to change their mentality towards you, then you have to change your mentality towards them.
7 Mar 2008, 15:05 pm
103 # I hear you and I can add that friends of mine had similar experiences.Those are criminal offences that I I will not accept and that should not be tolerated.You sound like a very reasonable person and I think colour is not a problem to you. If we can have more people like then we are on the right track.
7 Mar 2008, 15:07 pm
Fullback.
See it is not difficult.
If you want respect, you have to give respect first.
7 Mar 2008, 15:09 pm
badeesh
You still here?
I owe you an apology, yesterday I didn’t read your previous post properly and I completely misunderstood the point you were trying to make about Saru and the pc.
Hence, my reply didn’t relate to your full argument, I was off target.
Sorry, my bad.
7 Mar 2008, 15:11 pm
Awesome ouens!
Wow “keo” is doing his bit for the new south africa.
See that’s why I love SA, never a dull moment.
Later guys and Dawnee!
7 Mar 2008, 15:11 pm
Listen up all you f#&^$%#s
“Come on people now, smile on your brother. Everybody get together try to love one another right now.“
Capish
7 Mar 2008, 15:12 pm
101# fullback
That was how long ago?
You still that can be rectified in the new SA?
How?
7 Mar 2008, 15:13 pm
112# ‘You still think that can be rectified’…
7 Mar 2008, 15:18 pm
Dylan.
Thats the way brother.
We are putting people together here.
It is not difficult if you get rid of your own ego first and try to help.
7 Mar 2008, 15:47 pm
It all comes down to respect, I respect you like I want to be respected and then we are sorted.
7 Mar 2008, 15:59 pm
According to sherrif most afrikaners are quite primitive and LACK SOCIAL AND COGNITTIVE DEVELOPMENT
damn thats harsh!!!
7 Mar 2008, 16:00 pm
interesting and good article
wish he would have elaborated on his relationship with Cheeky and Luke.
Funny how whenever someone has a media quote played back to them that they regret they blame the poor journo
Seriously though, reading about his early childhood and been evicted from his home. It must have been terribly traumatic and I for one (despite trying not to) would be very bitter if it happened to me…
7 Mar 2008, 16:14 pm
Moola
Yes that Molla’s equivalent for my nick.
It’s Sheriff – double “f” and one “r”
Read my entry again. I said being racist, per se, is primitive etc.
If you feel that you want to ascribe that to a particular segment of our society then dont try and hide behind me.
COME OUT ON YOUR OWN AND SAY HOW YOU FEEL. DONT BE SCARED.
7 Mar 2008, 16:20 pm
just a little joke sheriff keep your panties on
7 Mar 2008, 16:30 pm
Yeah, a little joke. Thought you would not have the balls.
Now sit down now, gather your thoughts and come out and say what you want to say to Afrikaners.
Take off YOUR panties and be a man.
7 Mar 2008, 16:32 pm
Sheriff @ 87
From who do you lock yourself up in your security complex?
7 Mar 2008, 16:37 pm
SuperStirrer
Thanks for the question man…
It is clear that you’re trying to solicit some information, but I’m afraid you need to rephrase.
Do you want to know my real name or where I live … Let’s be to the point here.
7 Mar 2008, 16:44 pm
No, no Sheriff don’t want to know either but do want to know why you live in a security complex.
7 Mar 2008, 16:51 pm
SS
Why, do you? That was 10 years ago. See what an impact those words had on me.
You have most probably read my entries here and elsewhere and felt that here is an ******* who wants to be a “know -it-all”, but let me (that’s you) guide him to show him his own prejudices.
Perhaps you want me to say that I live there because of the new sa criminals.
I’ll answer you in this way. It is responsible to take ” all reasonable precautions to avoid any loss whether physical or financial”. It’s as simple as that. I told G13G yesterday that I’m a simple man.
7 Mar 2008, 16:53 pm
This guy, PdV is so fu…d he will not last 2 yaesr unless the “system: saves his ***…oh my where are we? where are we going to? We are so going down, and I mean deep down…
7 Mar 2008, 17:00 pm
Sheriff, from your posts you come across as a bit of a bohemian who wouldn’t choose to live behind security walls and electric fences. It was surprising to me that one with those views would live in a cage. I’m obviously mistaken.
7 Mar 2008, 17:09 pm
Hey Sheriff
You seem to be the blogs shrink – trying to get everyone to “let it all out”.
7 Mar 2008, 17:36 pm
Pietman, no problem. At the end of the day, we all just wanna be proud of our rugby, it is something that brings us untold joy and it hurts everybody when something we love is the source of such angst and difficulty.
I want a Springbok team that is impeccably managed, coached and run. I want a provincial structure that is succesfull and works to ensure the best talent in the world is available for our national side.
Regardless of race, religion, gender, everybody wants those things. And none of us will be happy or proud of who we are or the state of south african sport until that is achieved.
7 Mar 2008, 17:43 pm
badeesh
Right on, everything is cool then.
Thanx.
7 Mar 2008, 17:47 pm
i do notice now that no feasible answer can be offered by the black bloggers on this site why the current racist attitude towards white people from our government is any better than our forefathers attitude years ago.
two wrongs, clearly make a right …
7 Mar 2008, 17:52 pm
badeesh
As the old folks used to say, ‘Two black spots don’t make a white’….
But I suppose for some people two blacks spots are still the way forward.
But that attitude will also fall by the wayside, given time, I guess….I hope.
7 Mar 2008, 18:04 pm
RugbyStudent if u still out there, please take it from me. You are going way too overboard. my family endured more persecution under the apatheid government than u could ever imagine, and im not whining like you!
the bottom line is, this country does only have good ppl and bad ppl, like sheriff said. however, in your defence, this site is riddled with old white bloody racists, who long for (and are proud of) the old SA. And the problem is, they breed that attitude into their children.
So to all you “expats” who cant find work in Oz. good riddance…
7 Mar 2008, 18:05 pm
at the end of the day, it only creates more animosity and anger between people …
rugby for me, is the ultimate solution. it’s something we can get behind and grow our unity in.
and the pc and current situation with the government just creates untold amounts of animosity and anger. not to mention my 18 year old sister now being too petrified to drive at night because she’s more scared of the police than the car jackers.
7 Mar 2008, 18:10 pm
regardless of how incredibly awful the south african white population was in the past, no-one deserves to feel that way, no-one.
7 Mar 2008, 18:13 pm
zman
I don’t think so.
Who are the the ‘old white bloody racists’ riddling this site?
I don’t see any.
Please name them.
7 Mar 2008, 18:22 pm
132# Zman
And don’t make the mistake that all SA expats in Oz are white.
Quite the opposite, I believe, from what my sources over there tell me.
Over here in my part of the globe is the same, us white ex-pats are also slowly shrinking into a minority.
7 Mar 2008, 18:26 pm
zman, apart from pietieman, what about our okes that’s working in the the Gulf, we never want to be part of oz, oh and my family and their employees are now enduring much more stress and crime on our farm in RSA..so nothing changed, you are not whinning and so am i and RSA is the promised land…
7 Mar 2008, 18:38 pm
#132 “So to all you “expats†who cant find work in Oz. good riddance…” duh!, typical?
7 Mar 2008, 18:45 pm
so zman, in your own words, you hate a section of the white people on this site.
that makes you a racist.
7 Mar 2008, 20:09 pm
Bob
Unintentional though. But keo is a bit of an “uitlaatklep”.
7 Mar 2008, 20:11 pm
SS
Well I take that as a compliment mate.
On the contrary, probably one of more conservative bloggers on the site but I am interested in many things.
7 Mar 2008, 22:22 pm
# 64 saffa_guy……are we living on the same planet? Look, I couldn’t care what colour this guy is; he might as well be green for all that it would worry me. But he was not the best candidate; he was selected to make some kind of perverted statement that seems so necessary in South Africa today. Where incompetence, graft and corruption are rewarded and justified on the basis of “the wrongs of the past”. To which, despite any contorted logic that might be presented to convince me, I say rubbish.
Pieter de Villiers is certainly not corrupt or lazy, but he’s nevertheless got baggage from having been treated in a disgusting manner by insensitive, venal white people, and seems to have an agenda that does not seem to include the sole criterion of merit; his inability to be honest about his relations with the Watson family indicate this, at least to me. This is not to say that he shouldn’t be able to choose who he associates with, but if Cheeky Watson or his son Luke are foisted onto us because of some political agenda, then I say they can shove rugby. Times have changed and it is white people, many of whom have no idea what Apartheid was all about, who are being made to suffer.
Someone who can’t cope or can’t compete is always going to find a way to justify why they should nevertheless be appointed ahead of someone who can, and in South Africa this is going to severely handicap us for generations it seems, if not forever.
Call me racist if you want; I know I’m not and those who know me definitely know I’m not. But no amount of semantics is going to convince anyone that de Villiers is the best possible Springbok coach.
7 Mar 2008, 22:32 pm
Rugbystudent, I would like to congratulate you on a quality not many possess. The gift to stand up for what you think is right and oppose that you deem wrong. However, its never a good thing to generalise. I don’t know who post it but the “good guy, bad guy” analogy should apply. But I understand what frustrates you. You can correct me if I’m wrong.
Its a frequent and constant refrain on this site that most things non-white is up to no-good. You do get the exceptions like a Habana, who is a cut above anybody. Black or white. But that is what he needed to be to be accepted in all ‘white’ circles. To be spoken of with admiration from Veldrift to Ventersdorp. He had to be exceptional at what he does. But who of you can remember his early days at the Lions. He got much the same treatment as a ‘Danvil Dumbass’ or a ‘pathetic’ Kirhner (who even Joel Stransky rates). Frans Steyn thru away the S14 but no ‘dumbass’ for him. And I can go on and on about the injustices that exist in the mindset of ‘some white’ people. Like Ansie above, virtualy proving my point. PdV got the job but has to perform 10 times better than a HM ever would. Who would know? HM never got the job. So , its only natural to take it personal if you are called ‘Meraai’ because of the overtones that lies beneath. But same like Badeesh, there is a lack of comprehension of wrong doing. Total dis-respect if you ask me.
A lot of white Saffas I spoken to about this very thing, most of the time says the same thing. “they had nothing to do with it. i was 15 at the time”. No one ever said sorry that it ever happened and how they wished it was different. In total denial of the benefits they recieved from that same system. So my question is this . How must we (as the pd’s) forget about the past if some of you wont allow it?
7 Mar 2008, 22:39 pm
Ansie. Eugene Terreblanche glo dieselle tot vandag toe. And those who know you most probably feels the same way you do. Soort soek soort se hulle mos!
7 Mar 2008, 22:52 pm
Ansie I want to tell you about the neighbour I had in Auckland. We just moved in and was delighted to have ‘ex-saffas’ for neighbours. Naturaly, or in hindsight suprisingly, we got invited for a true SA braai. After dinner we chatted a bit on how we found NZ. And this bloke reckons, ‘you know these Moari’s are just like the k@ff1rs’. Understandably, the evening was over! He is what I call an expat that left SA for all the wrong reasons!
8 Mar 2008, 14:39 pm
Unlike you, BokinNZ, I have not run away from SA. I think that’s all there is to say in relation to your “vir die volk” posting.
8 Mar 2008, 14:44 pm
“…..all the wrong reasons….”. I expect that the right ones are “to experience life in the wider world”…”to broaden my horizons”…”for greater professional opportunity”….”because the fishing is great at Taupo”….”because I got a fantastic job offer”. How about being honest and just admitting that you left because you got sick of living with k@ff1rs and their incompetence, corruption, declining standards and racism.
Don’t preach to me ou broer.
7 Sep 2010, 22:10 pm
these were really hectic days on this site
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