De Villiers: Believe in me
7 Mar 2008
Even the bad times are good for new Bok coach Peter de Villiers.
There are no photos on the walls of Jake White’s former office at Saru headquarters in Newlands. Nails, hammered in at various angles, balls of dried Prestik and traces of double-sided tape are the only evidence that this room was once well decorated. On the modest pine desk is a laptop, a silver pen and pencil set and a telephone. The comfortable-looking black chair behind the desk is the only sign of luxury in a room that now belongs to Peter de Villiers.
The new Bok coach is stuck in traffic and I’m sitting alone at a round table next to the desk. It’s only after a couple of minutes that I notice the small picture frame. In it is a poem. After two weeks in the job, this is the only personal item De Villiers has brought with him from his Paarl home. The words reveal a lot about its owner.
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF
You are your greatest asset,
There’s nothing you can’t do.
No one can keep you from dreaming,
Only you can make them come true.
What you achieve is determined
By the desire you possess.
There is no better feeling
Than the feeling of success.
Believe in who you are
And what you do,
Don’t leave things up to fate,
It’s strictly up to you.
When De Villiers walks in, I shake his hand and ask how he is. “Even the bad times are good,” he says with a smile, before pulling up a chair.
Interviewing the new Bok coach is like having a verbal joust. When I ask questions he’s comfortable with, he gives insightful, intelligent answers. But when I ask anything controversial, he either deflects the question with a question of his own or uses a range of metaphors.
De Villiers was born in Paarl in 1957 – nine years after the introduction of apartheid. When he was a child, his family was forced to leave their comfortable home because of the Group Areas Act.
He was a small child, but he refused to be bullied. “You know, there’s no fight like a fight with no rules,” he says. “I never allowed kids to push me around then, and I don’t let people push me around today. You don’t need a big body to have a lot of brains, you know.”
De Villiers began playing rugby at the age of nine, represented Boland Schools in primary and high school and made his provincial debut while studying to become a teacher. Later on, he was invited to Saru trials but missed out on selection for the non-racial national team.
He has no regrets about his playing career, even though he did not play Currie Cup and Test rugby.
“If white people didn’t want me to live among them, why would I want to play with them?” he says. “Rugby was only one part of my life, not my life. By not playing in white competitions, I was telling them I didn’t like the way they treated my people. However, those black players that chose to play with whites were not traitors. A traitor is someone who sells his country out. I decided to stay; my best friend – who played flyhalf in my team – chose to go, and we are still friends today. He later told me that the people [in white rugby] were dishonest with him and he wasn’t treated well.”
When asked about apartheid and the affect it had on him, De Villiers tells two stories. The first is about his family being forcibly removed from their home by the apartheid police. The second was later in life when he was a teacher and a respected member of his community. De Villiers was pushing his eldest daughter on the swings in a park when a white security guard threw them out. “He treated us like dogs,” he recalls. “But apartheid affected the lives of all South Africans – black and white. If you were a white person, you were not allowed to mix with black people. You can’t be a holistic person if you don’t interact with people from all walks of life.”
De Villiers, as the poem on his desk confirms, believes in himself. He also loves himself a lot.
“Loving myself enables me to love others and congratulate them when they achieve something,” he says. “I know what I want from life, and I always back my own abilities. I’m not afraid to use the expertise of others, but most of the time I rely on myself.”
De Villiers says his top priority in life is God, “because God is everywhere”, but admits his other priorities are determined by circumstance. “My job could be my top priority today, and my family tomorrow. When I wake up in the morning, I decide what my priorities will be for the day.”
While he gets on with most people, he often clashes with those who are economical with the truth. “I don’t like dishonest people. I tend to interfere in their affairs,” he explains.
De Villiers was always going to coach after he stopped playing rugby. “I knew I had something to offer other players,” he says. De Villiers enjoyed instant success with the SA Correctional Services and SA Colleges sides, before being approached by Tygerberg. After two years with the Cape Town club, he was appointed coach of the Western Province Disas, the union’s senior B team. However, although he took the Disas to three consecutive finals, he was never considered to coach Western Province’s Currie Cup team (he was only made an assistant coach in 1998).
I ask De Villiers if this lack of opportunity, early in his coaching career, frustrated him. Does he believe WP used him just to add colour to their coaching staff? Was there ever a plan to groom him to become the Currie Cup head coach?
“There’s nothing I can do if people are dishonest,” he says. “I don’t get cross if people don’t believe in me, because that’s their view. I got a job at WP and I was successful in that job. That’s all that mattered to me.
“As for only being an assistant coach, you don’t have to be a pilot to fly from Cape Town to Durban; you can be the co-pilot too. You still get to your destination safely.”
However, De Villiers was given a chance to coach internationally at age-group level – his SA U19 team finished third at the 1999 World Championship. Although he was also an assistant with the Bulls in the 2001 Super 12, no provincial union approached him to coach their senior side. It was only in 2002 that the Falcons finally gave him a break.
When he left the Brakpan-based union in 2004, there were allegations of racism, a claim the coach denies.
“Those three years at the Falcons made me the coach I am today,” he says. “It was a tough three years, though, because I lost 33 players and had a budget of R1.2 million compared with the R10 million at the disposal of the previous coach. But I’m grateful for the opportunity they gave me.”
When SA U21 coach Jake White got the Bok job in 2004, De Villiers was given another opportunity on the world stage. His Baby Boks finished third at the World Championship that year, won it in 2005 and finished second in 2006.
Yet in 2007, De Villiers was still waiting for another opportunity to coach at Currie Cup or Super 14 level. Instead, he worked as a consultant to Maties first team in Stellenbosch, and the club won the WP Super A League and the National Club Championships. Later in the year, he took the Emerging Springboks to Romania and won the IRB Nations Cup. When he returned home, he was amazed by the low-key reception the team received. Even more hurtful was the fact that no-one from Saru contacted him to offer their congratulations.
De Villiers was close to Newlands rugby stadium when he received the call from SA Rugby CEO Johan Prinsloo. “Hi Peter, Johan here. I need you to come to the fourth floor of the Sports Science Institute for a press conference. You’ve got the job.”
“I cannot describe the way I felt at that moment,” recalls De Villiers. “I had prepared myself for both eventualities, but I was still blown away by the enormity of it all.”
At just after 1.30pm, De Villiers walked into his first Springbok press conference wearing the Bulls blazer he’d earned in 2001. After facing the media – and hearing Saru president Oregan Hoskins admit that transformation had played a part in his selection – De Villiers drove home to find his house covered in Bok flags and messages from well-wishers scribbled on the windows in white wash-off paint.
At that moment De Villiers realised just how close his community really was.
The new Bok coach had switched off his cellphone before entering the Bok press conference and turned it on only later that night when things had calmed down. On his voicemail was a message from Jake White, wishing him all the best.
I ask De Villiers if he spoke to any of the other contenders in the days that followed. “Chester [Williams] was the only one who phoned me and we had a good chat. If I had missed out on the Bok job, I definitely would have called whoever got it and said well done.”
If De Villiers had spoken to Heyneke Meyer – who he edged 10-9 in the President’s Council vote – what would he have said? “I’d have told him to get on with his life,” he replies.
De Villiers won’t divulge the details of his presentation to the coaching committee, which recommended his name to the President’s Council. “I’ve been told it’s confidential,” he says. “But I can tell you I made them a couple of promises. I promised I would do everything in my power to ensure the Boks stay No 1 in the world, and I promised to take the game to the people.”
He aims to keep his promises by playing an expansive style of rugby – the total opposite of what we came to expect from Jake White’s Boks.
“Structure in rugby came from Australia, a country which doesn’t have a lot of rugby talent,” he explains. “I believe the more talent you have, the less structure there should be. We have a massive amount of talent in South Africa and I want to give them the freedom to express themselves. I want my players to be the best they can be, on and off the field.”
I ask De Villiers whether he thinks the Boks can realistically expect to beat the All Blacks at their own game. Under White, the Boks won three Tests against the arch-enemy by dominating up front and playing to a set structure – not by throwing the ball around.
“You’ll get your answer in July [during the Tri-Nations],” De Villiers replies. “I believe we can beat the All Blacks with an expansive approach. We just need to have a positive mindset. If we can be successful with a negative mindset – as has often been the case in the past – imagine what we could achieve with a positive one.”
Another White trait was to favour tall, big backs (Jean de Villiers, Frans Steyn, Butch James etc) over pocket rockets such as Brent Russell. Can the smaller provincial player in South Africa now dream of Bok selection under De Villiers?
“Let me put it this way,” he says. “A small talented guy will always be better than a big untalented guy, and a big talented guy is better than a small talented guy. I will select the best player for the job.”
Perhaps White’s greatest achievement was to create a winning culture with the Boks. So it’s good to know that De Villiers is a very bad loser. He says he can’t even handle losing a game of marbles and doesn’t know how he’ll react if his Boks lose a Test in front of a global audience.
“The Boks play 12 Tests this year, and I want to win all 12. One loss in a season is one too many. Any defeat hurts me,” he says.
There are those who say De Villiers is in a no-win situation. If he wins every game in 2008, he’ll have done it with the team Jake built. If the Boks start to lose, he’ll be the coach who stuffed up the world champions. De Villiers, however, refuses to accept that.
“No, no, no, no,” he says loudly. “If we win all our games, it shows we’ve built on the winning culture created by Jake. If we lose, perhaps it’s because there have been a few changes and we are busy rebuilding. So I think I’m in a win-win situation.”
I’ve saved the most hard-hitting questions of the interview for last, and as they start coming De Villiers gets more agitated and his answers more evasive.
“When the Boks struggled under Jake White in 2006, his kids copped abuse at school. Have you warned your daughters what could happen if you go through a bad patch?”
“No, why would I do that? We’re only going to have good times this year.”
“When will you pick your Bok captain?”
“After we’ve chosen the first match 22 on merit. I can tell you one thing, though: one of those 22 players will be the captain.”
“Do you rate Luke Watson?”
“I don’t want to discuss Luke Watson because it will put pressure on him. Why didn’t you ask me about Gcobani Bobo? Don’t you want to know about Bobo?”
“No, I don’t.”
“Then leave Watson out of this interview because he’s the same as any player to me.”
“Do you have a relationship with Cheeky Watson?”
“Definitely. I am talking to you now, so I have a relationship with you too.”
“Do you have a close relationship with Cheeky Watson?”
“I only have a close relationship with my wife. [Pause] Look, I listen to most people in life and then I make a choice who makes sense to me. Cheeky Watson makes a lot of sense to me when I talk to him. He’s a very intelligent man, and he’s a very honest man.”
“According to a newspaper article last year, you said you’d select 10 blacks in the Bok starting XV.”
“I never said that. What I told the journalist is that I don’t see colour, I only see rugby players, and I will choose the best possible Bok team.”
“If the best Bok team, in your view, is all-white, will you pick it?”
“You will never, ever in your life again see an all-white team. And you will never see an all-black team either. Each race group has different skills that complement each other.”
“According to some scientific reports, the white Afrikaner is more suited to rugby than non-white players for genetic reasons. Could that explain why 13 out of the 15 Boks in the World Cup final were white?”
“That’s absolute rubbish. Over the weekend I watched a white player [Stormers centre Corne Uys] carried off the field after being tackled by a coloured player [Boland wing Alshaun Bock].”
“How will you ensure Super 14 coaches select more black players this year?”
“I believe they will do that without me interfering.”
“Wouldn’t official quotas make more sense than this gentlemen’s agreement?”
“Quotas do more harm than good. Look what quotas have done to the crayfish industry in this country. When there are official quotas, those non-white players in the team are regarded as quota players.”
When our time is up, De Villiers breaks into a smile and claps his hands together. His PR manager, Neil de Beer, walks in and gives his client a new 2008 diary, with gold-edged pages. “Wow, look at this!” De Villiers enthuses. “It’s even got my name on it!”
As I prepare to leave, they start discussing a gala banquet to be held in De Villiers’s honour in Paarl. “I spoke to [minster of sport] Makhenkesi Stofile this morning and he confirmed he’ll be there,” says De Beer. “Oh, and Ceres is sponsoring the juice.”
As I walk down the passage, I can hear De Villiers laughing.
By Simon Borchardt
This article first appeared in SA Rugby magazine. The new issue will be on sale from Wednesday, 12 March.
148 Comments
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7 Mar 2008, 13:24 pm
47 – Just pray to God it’s not Chester.
7 Mar 2008, 13:27 pm
Well, it would be great if Muir got the job. We know he wants it. Maybe coetzee would be good too for continuity…though he was shown up by eddie. Muir would be much better. Who would you choose, Pietman?
7 Mar 2008, 13:38 pm
juiz
Don’t know bro, Muir, Carel du Plessis or Alistair (backline) for sure.
But the forwards coach is a problem, since Naka and Loffie apparently both bowed out.
Are there any good black forward coaches around in SA at the moment, because that would save us a lot of grief if we could have one?
7 Mar 2008, 13:38 pm
42# Please explain : “Our white apartheid policy has created what Pieter de Villiers now is, and we’ve got to live with it”
I seriously hope you have some itelligent answers.
7 Mar 2008, 13:42 pm
Pietman and others
His name is Peter de Villiers.
I think there is a lot of confusion with Pieter de Villiers who is of course a prop in France. Now with Peter being Afr speaking people tend to change the “Peter” into “Pieter”; and from what I have seen he is not the pedantic type to want to point out specifically that it is actually “Peter”
Yebo
Is he black or coloured?
Peter is of mixed descent hence a De Villiers in a brown body and different hair texture. Peter is thus part of the collective (political) black group of people in SA. It would have been more realistic to expect a Jean, AB or Fanie, but life is full of anomalies.
Does this make the “kruis tussen ‘n Duitser en Hollander of Fransman” also coloured? As clearly this also fits the bill of “mixed descent”
If we cascade his blackness further – like others would by saying that they’re Xhosa, Zulu then it provides insight into the man. It may point to the fact that he is Afr speaking and have RUGBY in his blood. In a rugby context it is relevant.
This is not a post-1994 rugby jobbie. We, yes notice the “we” grew up with rugby as a staple diet.
Having said this I support South Africans, as long as they are logical, reasonable, honest and excellent. It’s a generalisation I know, but I’m sure you get the crux of what I’m saying.
7 Mar 2008, 13:42 pm
I’m a young person in this country…
The more stories I read about the apartheid era, the more I see why there’s so much hate. You, white people of the past are the scum of the earth. My dad told me the other day he and his dad walked over a bridge one day to go to the Spar to go shop which was in a white area. When they walked back a 12 year old white child picked up half a brick and threw it against my grandpa’s head. Leaving a heavy gash. The child’s father came out, looked at the situation and laughed.
What kind of sick, twisted people are you? All rugby aside… What kind of so called Christians do stuff like that? So, how do you expect those people to just…forgive you now?
7 Mar 2008, 13:44 pm
“itelligent” answers! lol. that’s like spelling success wrong, fullback!
7 Mar 2008, 13:51 pm
57 Thanks for the spelling lesson and btw where do you teach? Any spelling erors /errors this time?
7 Mar 2008, 13:53 pm
so why not seek to sooth over and heal, rugbystudent, rather than perpetuating the hate you clearly dislike? How else are we going to move forward?
7 Mar 2008, 13:55 pm
errors, fullback, dont make that error.
7 Mar 2008, 13:56 pm
RugbyStudent
That is just the problem…according to you it is all white people!!
And it is not….this is the problem…you who say you are young…now come and bring the hate from the past with you……that is why SA will never change.
I got one for you to….
Mt dad was taken by black people for a hole day…..cut up and beaten…left for dead at night next to a highway!!!
Now how do you think that makes white people feel???
We ( and i mean me ) not part of apartheid need do suffer for things that happend long ago…..as a young white male in SA now….it is not easy to get a job you should get…..and once again…we as you South Africans…need to suffer for things that happend before our time….and like i said…it is the young people of today. That brings the hate with them!!
Think about it!!
7 Mar 2008, 13:58 pm
Because I’m only finding out about this stuff now!! Heal what? Its very nice and comfortable to forget and move on for you white people…but to me, there’s a reason I didn’t get to go to a school with a rugby field or go to a school where there teachers aren’t drunk or on strike.
7 Mar 2008, 14:00 pm
Steyn,
Yet, most of the money today are not with the masses it is shared between white people. And where do you think the hatred for white people come from? Did it just spontaneously arrive on this country’s doorstep? If anything young white people should hate their forefathers and spit on their legacy but ja, you won’t.
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
But one thing is sure…..whatever he turns out to be, he was not the best man for the job. And for that reason he’s going to have to prove himself beyond anything that might have been expected from a Heyneke Meyer.
Comment by ansie : March 7, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
Ansie, who was the ELECTED TECHNICAL COMMITTEES chosen candidate? Pieter De Villiers.
Hence he was according to the SARU technical criteria the best candidate.
It was a section of the Political (Presidents) Council which did not agree with the Technical Committees decision.
So who then would have been the political appointment? Heyneke as supported by minority of the Political Council OR Pieter as chosen by the elected Technical Committee?
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
61 thought you are clever . If you did’nt notice I was just being sarcastic Mr Spelling ! !
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
bud stop saying you white people!!
Why do i need to forget and move on?
I was not part of the **** in the first place!!
You don’t get the point!!
You and me…should not be suffering for things that happend in the past….do you understand that?
but hey…i am not here to chat about the past….only about rugby!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:01 pm
“Peter is of mixed descent hence a De Villiers in a brown body and different hair texture.”
7 Mar 2008, 14:02 pm
sorry 65 was for julz
7 Mar 2008, 14:03 pm
Steyn and Student
believe me neither of you will win this battle … just call it quits for today?
7 Mar 2008, 14:06 pm
Dawn,
That’s my point…its so nice, warm and comfortable for white that people forgive them, right? Kumba ja, and all that. But the legacy is still there and whtie people are still benefitting from it.
Where was Heyneke Meyer when Pieter de Villiers had to vacate his home, being treated like dogs? I’m sure Heyneke didn’t benefit from the same government.
7 Mar 2008, 14:06 pm
Steyn, Rugbystudent.
I too have a story similar to #61 regarding my father’s father who was murdered and dismembered by those of a different colour. I am a young white who is about to leave this country because people can’t seem to move beyond race and hate. I feel discriminated against by the current government. The past one was not one I chose either. We need to forgive and forget and sow love to move forward.
7 Mar 2008, 14:07 pm
just pulling your leg, fullback. Having some fun, ok!
7 Mar 2008, 14:08 pm
julz and Steyn
Are you actually saying you guys and your families have it worse than non-whites had?
7 Mar 2008, 14:09 pm
Rugbystudent.
Take some advice from somebody older than you.
Right now you are part of the problem.
Go and think carefully, and seriously, it may take days or weeks or even years, but think about how you can change and become part of the SOLUTION.
7 Mar 2008, 14:09 pm
Dawn,
that is what i did, we will never see eye to eye!
7 Mar 2008, 14:10 pm
tight head
hahahaha, I’m the problem?!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:13 pm
Rugbystudent
Not saying that, you see the problem now….for you it is about we still living lekker and you are not…..look around you buddy….it is not like that anymore!
We all need to work together to make this a better place….but most think like you ( White and black )can;t get over the past and move on.
that is me for the day…i am of to Loftus…
Have a lekker weekend people……
7 Mar 2008, 14:13 pm
76.
Read carefully again what I have said.
I am not attacking you.
If you truly understand what I am telling you, then you will see the future and not be stuck in the mindset of the past.
7 Mar 2008, 14:14 pm
Wish I had money for a ticket to Loftus…
7 Mar 2008, 14:15 pm
Apartheid is not gone it’s still in the hearts and thoughts of most of You Whiteys. Just be honest to yourself. Don’t come with that **** that you were not part of it, funny that you did’nt complain back in the apartheid days?Wonder why? RugbyStudent don’t listen to some of these fools on this site cause they will justify just about anything….
PS, you do get a lot of decent and caring Whites as well.
7 Mar 2008, 14:17 pm
fullback
My anger is at those who has gone before the current generation and the fact that they are treated like heroes.
7 Mar 2008, 14:18 pm
Well rugbystudent, you have a choice.
1. dwell in the hatred of the past
2. stop playing victim, take responsibility for your life, forgive, forget, sow love and build for a better tomorrow.
the paths go in opposite directions.
7 Mar 2008, 14:18 pm
fullback,
Back in the apartheid days i was a kid.
I turned 15 in 1994.
So don’t you come with that ****!!
I am done with his….it is fools like you that f@cks up this country!!
I am out
7 Mar 2008, 14:20 pm
julz
Can you see me from your high horse?
7 Mar 2008, 14:20 pm
82.
Very well said.
7 Mar 2008, 14:21 pm
my little sister was thrown in jail because she refused to pay a bribe to two black policeman. she was beaten, thrown into the back of a cop car, her best friend was left, without drivers license, crying on the side of the road, and we have doctor’s tests to prove that they were both completely sober.
does an apartheid past give black people the right to do this to white people?
7 Mar 2008, 14:22 pm
Dawn
You liked that?
Rugbystudent
I’m gonna have to call you to order here. Calm down mate. I can understand your newfound pain but rest assured, it will take a lifetime to come to terms with. I will say a bit more later depending on how this thread pans out.
I will tell you what a Chinese lady told me one day when we had a braai in our security complex. Now me being curious to understand the psyche and behaviour of human beings this was an ideal chance to get an Oriental perspective.
So I said : So what do you make of this whole black/white thing in SA? She answered in her Oriental accent : “No, no black guy or white guy- just GOOD GUY OR BAD GUY.
Now you see there it is. They’ve thought this thing through for a few hundred years longer than us. It is therefore, in a sense, quite PRIMITIVE TO BE RACIST. It speaks of LACK OF SOCIAL AND COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT.
7 Mar 2008, 14:24 pm
Sheriff
Really? So that’s where all the answers are… Great, that makes up for everything!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
83 If you were 15 in 1994 then you know F… All ! ! Go and buy yourself a book of the bad old days of apartheid and get educated cause I doubt whether your folks will inform you of all the shamefull things of the past. Untill then don’t tell people of colour just to move on and forget the past.
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Rugbystudent
Since when have you been blogging on this site?
Relax – I’m not attacking you.
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Well, what is your choice, rugbystudent?
7 Mar 2008, 14:28 pm
Hi Sheriff.
I believe you are a social scientist and therefore am interested in your posts.
I have Chinese business partners and have spent many years travelling to China and learning about the wisdom of their human interaction in all arears of their lives.
I have learnt plenty, and continue to do so.
If only we could wave a magic wand and influence the lives of people like this young student!!
7 Mar 2008, 14:29 pm
Poppy ****! A mess.
7 Mar 2008, 14:35 pm
I would like to know what rugbystudent wants us to do, apologise, die, leave the country?
maybe we need to grovel at his feet and describe in detail how much we hate our parents?
7 Mar 2008, 14:36 pm
cheers, all. I’m out of here. Have a good weekend
7 Mar 2008, 14:36 pm
or maybe he wants to rape our woman and take our homes?
7 Mar 2008, 14:37 pm
it would seem that a government hell bent on putting whities in their place is not enough.
7 Mar 2008, 14:39 pm
Tighthead
Thanks mate. Yeah I’m a social scientist by “interest” not by “training” though as G13G may have thought I meant.
Interesting thing: Tiger Woods – by SA definition a coloured – argh, just dont like that word but anyway, refers to himself as a Caublinasian.
Cau = Caucasian
Bl – Black
In – Indian
Asian – Asian (of course)
It seems that it is politically incorrect to be Black or White these days. Should we be somewhere in between? Is that the way forward?
If so then my genes are in demand. Greater demand higher price – haha.
No man, on a serious note fullback or is that fullbLack and Rugbystudent this is not on. Come on!
7 Mar 2008, 14:44 pm
Rugbystudent displays the anger of youth.
That is understandable.
However as I have said, he needs to go and apply his intellect to thinking more deeply about the way forward.
Sometimes it is easier to take the lazy approach of remaining in the comfort zone of the victim mentality and blame the world for your lack of progress, rather than accept responsability for yourself.
7 Mar 2008, 14:46 pm
D-a-w-n-e-e, W-h-e-r-e a-r-e y-o-u ?
Did you like that? Dont be shy Dawnee …
You like the hair texture thing…
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