Wales’ reality check
8 May 2008
The Springboks don’t lose to Wales in South Africa. And they won’t start losing in 2008.
We heard the same story when Eddie O’Sullivan’s Irish team arrived in South Africa in 2004 as the favourites to beat Jake White’s young Springboks. As White said at the time, it was ludicrous to believe a Bok team could lose to Ireland in Bloemfontein. He was proved right when the Boks smashed the far more experienced and supposedly in-form Irish.
Now it is the turn of Wales to talk a big game ahead of their two Tests in South Africa in June. For those with short memories, let me remind you that the Boks even managed a two-Test series win against Wales in South Africa when Rudolf Straeuli was coaching them. I reiterate the point that the Springboks don’t lose to Wales in this country.
Wales, poor at the World Cup, are talking of new dawns under New Zealand coach Warren Gatland. They are optimistic because they won the Six Nations and went unbeaten. But the same players who dominated the northern hemisphere’s premier competition were those who got a drubbing at home against the Springboks only last November. The Boks in that Test had to do without six of their World Cup final stars and, further, had the luxury of only two training sessions in the month that preceded the Test. Yet they arrived in Wales on the Sunday and six days later whipped them.
Come on. Wales can’t win in South Africa this June because their players aren’t physical enough, aren’t mentally strong enough and all-round simply are not good enough.
Wales won a Six Nations championship in which the standard of rugby was piss poor. They beat an out-of-sorts England team, sneaked past an Ireland side devoid of all confidence, comfortably dealt with a French team whose new coach inexplicably used the Six Nations as an experimental stage and breezed past the courageous but limited Italians.
The Springboks, All Blacks and Wallabies would also have completed an unbeaten run in the Six Nations. Argentina, who finished third at the World Cup, would have come close to doing something similar. And the likes of a full-strength Fiji, Tonga and Samoa would have won more than they lost.
It is not fair to say that when Wales win the Six Nations the standard is inadequate and when France win it they’re a quality side. The standard in the past few years has not been up to much, and the dominance of the southern hemisphere over the northern hemisphere has vindicated this opinion.
Sure, England and France poxed wins against Australia and New Zealand at the World Cup, but over a sustained period of time south has battered north, home and away. Wales, for all the bravado, have never travelled well to the likes of South Africa, New Zealand and France. They’ve also battled in Argentina. I don’t dispute Gatland’s qualities and have huge respect for what Shaun Edwards has achieved in rugby union, both at Wasps and in his short term with Wales.
A coach is only as good as his players, and all Wales can hope for in South Africa is respectability and competitiveness. At home, later in the year, they will be a different proposition. In our winter and at our stadiums they remain a soft touch – even with our players forced to play the old rules again.
This column first appeared in the May issue of SA Rugby magazine.
81 Comments
8 May 2008, 13:43 pm
It’s not about beating Wales. It’s about the quality of the performances on the 7th and 14th of next month.
8 May 2008, 13:44 pm
Wales to get a good old fashion hiding
the gulf between North and South and too big
8 May 2008, 13:49 pm
The loss of Phillips, Henson, Burne, and Williams will make all the difference. Wales are no muggs, but they won’t be able to compete without those four. They were never going to win the series, but they will be less competitive now.
8 May 2008, 13:58 pm
Keo, you seem to assume the Boks will simply carry on from where they left off at the World Cup. Much water has flowed under the Bok bridge since, and Pieter de Villiers affect on the team is a completely unknown quantity. Your argument is based more on a macho bravado dissing of Wales, and on historical records, than on an indepth & insightful analysis of exactly where the Springbok team is at present. And that is where the rub lies. Not in this chest-beating excuse for a provocative article
8 May 2008, 14:03 pm
I think the first test will be tight… due to a new team, working under a new coach with old rules etc..
second test should be alot easier
8 May 2008, 14:06 pm
#4 Spotted Grunter: There is no Bok team yet, next week we will get an indication.
But if we lose against Wales in SA later this year, I am taking up tennis as my preferred sport to watch.
8 May 2008, 14:08 pm
#6 Pissant
Nothing wrong with watching a bit of Ladies’ tennis now and then.
8 May 2008, 14:18 pm
#7 gizzard: Aaah, too true mate, too true…
8 May 2008, 14:19 pm
Hey Keo be careful about pulling the piss out of Rudolph – we haven’t seen the peter De Villiers sideshow yet!!!
8 May 2008, 14:23 pm
Just cae back from a talk by Jake White and he doesn’t share this sentiment
8 May 2008, 14:24 pm
#9 +1 I have a horrible feeling that the de Villiers years (why do I shiver involuntarily when I say ‘years’ [plural]?) will in time be known as either a very fruitful period or a very barren one. I fear the latter.
8 May 2008, 14:26 pm
I really think we should beat Wales, the only thing nagging at the back of my mind is how many new face will de Villiers put into the team?? We will win but not by as much as people think.
Hell I hope I am wrong and we give them a lesson in Hard rugby…
8 May 2008, 14:44 pm
I think if the coach loses to wales he should be sacked. It is tantamount to going through an entire tri-nations without a win, which if my memory serves me well has never happend to the boks. Am I wrong here?
8 May 2008, 14:50 pm
I do firmly believe that we northerns overrate northern hemisphere teams, so I would like the Springboks to show the entire world what southern hemisphere rugby is about and smash the welsh.
But I happen to be a convinced All Black supporter and therefore, I do not exactly like seeing South Africa as the reigning champion of the world. Besides, Wales is the team I like best from the ones that play the oldest tournament in rugby.
So, who should I support?
I think that for the time being I will be hoping two 30-0 sweeps for the Springboks…
and **** the northerns.
8 May 2008, 14:51 pm
#13 I can’t remember whether we’ve ever gone through and entire Tri-Nations without a win, but if we have I am clearly suffering from selective memory loss as a way of protecting my sensitive disposition from the pain of that insult.
8 May 2008, 14:53 pm
Green Dragons to kill Red Dragons!
8 May 2008, 14:54 pm
#6 You should not. We, All Blacks supporters, didn’t switch to tennis after our “unbelievable success” during 2007 RWC.
8 May 2008, 14:55 pm
The Wales game will be far more a test of De Villiers than the Boks. We should destroy them, South africans expect nothing less of a World Cup winning side. De Villiers has nowhere to hide if even one of the games is lost…
I’m hopeful though. Wales will be slaughtered.
8 May 2008, 15:01 pm
#17 I’m surprised civil war didn’t break out between the north and south islands as a way of getting over the disappointment. Entire civilizations have been known to be lost for less.
8 May 2008, 15:05 pm
Janee, die Drakies gaan lekker afgeslag word!
Ek wonder hoe proe draakfillet?
8 May 2008, 15:08 pm
What team will he pick?
What type of game plan will he employ?
Will the players buy into the new coaches game plan?
Will we beat ourselves?
Beating Wales depends on the answers to the above.
Wales can never be taken lightly.
PDV will sink or swim based on whether he has the brains to beat the best coaches in the world.
We will have to wait and see.
8 May 2008, 15:21 pm
#17 Civilization? where? **giggles**
8 May 2008, 15:22 pm
#21 and others in the comments:
Why so many doubts over PDV? I think he will perform at least as well as Jake White did.
8 May 2008, 15:22 pm
#22 sesenta y cuatro:
The humans are the rulers, the sheep are the ruled.
8 May 2008, 15:30 pm
#24 the world was well ancient before this newest race called themselves rulers of anything. The world will long live once these humans are gone.
8 May 2008, 15:31 pm
#23 sesenta y cuatro:
Not fair to doubt a man before he starts.
However no matter what anybody says, he will be judged very harshly if he loses games.
In his job, no loss is accepted.
It is a tough, lonely job when you lose.
There is only one certainty about his job, and it is if you lose enough games you will be fired.
As Jake said about the new coach ” Good luck, you are going to need it”
8 May 2008, 15:34 pm
#26 thank you, I forgot Jake White’s words, but do not expect PDV to lose any of these two games against Wales.
3N is a completely different story.
8 May 2008, 15:34 pm
If the Boks smash Wales in the up and coming 2 test series will it give the Boks false hope of trying to beat the kiwis twice in New Zealand. I think PDV should use this series to try out new combinations in preparation for the Tri-Nations.
8 May 2008, 15:39 pm
KEO I totally agree with you.
Well said. It wont even matter if PDV is good or bad at this stage, as long as he uses enough of the guys from the existing team Wales are done.
8 May 2008, 15:43 pm
#11 gizzard: The problem when you look at any World cup winner after the WC is that they tail off fast. So if we are to take anything from the form book the PDV years/months will be a disaster. So let’s hope the form book changes drastically.
8 May 2008, 15:46 pm
#23 sesenta y cuatro: From where the name 64???
8 May 2008, 15:53 pm
#25 sesenta y cuatro: …and sheep will rule once more?
8 May 2008, 15:56 pm
Tough talking KEO, lets hope it all pans out..if not, I am also going to become a tennis fan. Naah, just let PDV use the Stormers and we will be fine…:-)
8 May 2008, 15:59 pm
Keo,
Agree that we won’t lose but I’ve watched eneough of Gatland and Shaun Edward’s at Wasps to know that they can plot the downfall of any team.
A couple of years back Wasps faced Toulouse in the Heineken Final and won – believe me it was David vs Goliath stuff.
Also, you’ve got to remember that when Eddie’s Irish team arrived – we were down and out and had something to prove. This time we are the world champs with a new coach.
8 May 2008, 16:26 pm
#21 tight head: Yes agree.
One question is fatigue. Lets assume the Sharks and Stormers play semis (hey I can hope…) then one plays finals.. We will be fine (remember we beat England before coming horribly short due to fatigue/injury/resting), but then surely the boks must have a serious R&R period???????
8 May 2008, 16:28 pm
#35 rugby911: i horribly short in the Tri N
8 May 2008, 16:28 pm
I mean horribly short in the Tri N.. eish
8 May 2008, 16:31 pm
we can’t afford to lose at home. PERIOD!!!!
8 May 2008, 16:43 pm
The Welsh players just aint big enough and they in any case have lost a couple of key players recently. Offered a Welsh supporting colleague of mine a bet (two beers to one) and he said he would take the bet, but only because he was obliged to as a Welsh supporter.
Theres no ways Wales can win this.
8 May 2008, 16:59 pm
Even without a coach the Boks should take this hands down. Expect a packed stadium for this 1st test the boks are playing as World Champs at home. We’ll have too much pride and Wales missing a few key players.
Can’t see this going any other way.
8 May 2008, 17:03 pm
it all depends on whether Butch starts at 10 or some other nimkapoop…
we need a general, not chaplain…
8 May 2008, 17:11 pm
#41 Crickey,
Even with Liefling we should be able to kick their arses! (But pls don’t get him near the green and gold again!)
Btw Crickey, are you in durbs? How’s the surf been there lately?
8 May 2008, 17:14 pm
hey mate, yip back for a while… surf’s bn better today…
but hell pls keep that girl away from the green and gold!!!!
8 May 2008, 17:22 pm
As long as the side looks anything like this, I’d be happy and can’t see us dropping the game…
15 Percy/Jantjes
14 JPP/Chavanga
13 Fourie/
12 JdV/F Steyn
11 Habana
10 Butch/Grant
9 January/Ruan/Fourie
8 Kankovski/Spies
7 Juan/
6 Luke/Wikus (don’t really rate either of the two)
5 Matfield/Bekker
4 Bakkies/Muller
3 Whoever
2 Smit/Bishmark
1 Whoever
8 May 2008, 17:33 pm
The thing that I will give to Pieter De Villiers is that he has a long background in coaching rugby. Probably more than any of the current super14 or international coaches.
What I truly love about him is his philosophy about how the game should be played.
Attack
Attack
Attack
It’s easy to defend when the score is 40-0
8 May 2008, 17:38 pm
15 Jantjes
14 Chavanga
13 De Villiers
12 Steyn
11 Habana
10 Grant
9 Fourie
8 Kankowski
7 Juan
6 Luke until The Hulk returns
5 Matfield
4 Bakkies
3 Botha
2 Smit
1 Van De Linde
16 Mujati
17 Bismarck
18 Muller
19 Van Heerden
20 Ruan
21 Fourie
22 JP
8 May 2008, 17:44 pm
15 Steyn
14 Pieterson
13 Fourie
12 De Villiers
11 Habana
10 BUTCH
9 Fourie
8 Kankowski
7 Juan
6 Burger
5 Matfield
4 Bakkies
3 Botha
2 Smit
1 Heinke
16 Mujati
17 Bismarck
18 Muller
19 Joe
20 Ruan
21 Grant
22 Jantjes/Percy
8 May 2008, 17:48 pm
Are you guys serious about Luke wearing the green and gold?
8 May 2008, 17:54 pm
train… never!!!
8 May 2008, 17:54 pm
Absolutely no excuses if we lose against Wales, rubbish talk to even think it, they are not the RWC and they will never be, they have beaten us once in a 100 hundred years
8 May 2008, 17:58 pm
but pdv have already lined his excuses up…
8 May 2008, 18:06 pm
Underestimate Wayne Gatland and Shaun Edwards at your peril, they may not have the cream of their players all together at their disposal but they are still possibly the most astute street wise coaching combo on the planet next to or alongside Robbie Deans.
By rights we should be able to cream this Wales team, however how closely knit will the combinations of the Bok team be by next month and how psychologically primed will they be, remembering some of these if not most of them won a WC and still think they’re walking on water, besides I certainly hope we are not lumbered with players still carrying JW or HM 2007 baggage on their shoulders, if so they will be more of a liability than an asset come test time.
8 May 2008, 18:07 pm
#47 crikey_mate_did you see that shark:
Do you really think it will be acceptable for the new coach to start his tenure with only two black wings in the starting lineup? I do not think he will set himself up like that.
8 May 2008, 18:17 pm
but there are only two wings in a rugby side mate, i could not fit any more black wings in he he…
8 May 2008, 18:22 pm
#54 Crickey lol
I would rather go for January on scrummie as Fourie’s form haven’t been up to scratch this year… but then again, we’re going back to old rules. But then again, Peter will want to play a fast attacking game. In conclusion, I’ll go with January!
If we win the 1st test comfortably, I’ll give Mujati a start in the 2nd and see how he goes.
8 May 2008, 18:22 pm
Tell you I’d be only too pleased to see that glorious WC winning side take on NZ and Aussie without any incoming new talent and play Elv rugby, almost guarantee they’ll be put to the sword and stretched beyond their limitations, play that all conquering team and get your *** whipped big time, I dare you to.
8 May 2008, 18:29 pm
#54 crikey_mate_did you see that shark:
lol, you remind me of Cliffie Brown.
8 May 2008, 18:51 pm
The margins are narrow in test rugby. If you don’t take the competition seriously you fail – as NZ and Oz found out in the RWC. And you can’t afford too many mistakes or too much bad luck.
Wales are a confident and competent side, though obviously weakened for this tour. If we give it everything we will beat them, but any idea that they are easy beats is exactly what will cause an upset.
Jake got it right against England’s third team last year: Play the First 15 and fire up the afterburners.
8 May 2008, 19:09 pm
“A coach is only as good as his players”-really? Try tellng that to the Bulls…
8 May 2008, 21:16 pm
Mallet was the only coach that slipped against the Dragons
8 May 2008, 21:53 pm
Question, didn’t your WC winning side get beaten by a team put together very quickly last year, called the babaa’s???? (sheep were they??)
8 May 2008, 22:49 pm
Sites as dead as a doornail
Where all the goodfellas gone
8 May 2008, 23:22 pm
hehe they go to SA not expecting concrete playing fields and breathless second halves at altitude…
The SA players playing under teh ELV’s now will run rings around these guys…
8 May 2008, 23:56 pm
#61 No not the WC winning team, but the Boks nonetheless. They were also unfortunately a put together side, playing a nothing game at the end of the season. Cup was still in the cabinet, what did you boys have?
9 May 2008, 01:13 am
I am at work and one of our South African guys is on the bbq cooking Boerewors,it looks interesting.Will give you the run down in about 40mins on what i think
9 May 2008, 01:15 am
Hurricane Get a nice french roll and make it into a boerewors dog
9 May 2008, 01:51 am
#66 CoachPete:
Just did that after reading your post,and its one of the juciest super long sausages i have ever seen and tasted.Great stuff
9 May 2008, 02:01 am
Good to hear Hurricane, must have been cooked just right. Should be cooked so still juicy but not over cooked and dry. On that note try dried wors sometime soon as well.
9 May 2008, 02:03 am
#68 CoachPete:
Yep i did as well as there was 2 bbqs going and our SA worker cooked it properly and the Kiwi fella cut it up and cooked it like that.So i had the taste of both but prefer the jucy one
9 May 2008, 02:14 am
Sounds like the saffa still has the touch. Yes the roll should also be semi hard crust french roll, stays in one peice and less messy. Also no mustard or tomato sause needed. Just some butter on the roll so it melts with the hot wors. Man, I have to order some soon
9 May 2008, 02:36 am
SA could be in for a shock.
Gatland and Edwards will have Wales well-drilled and they have nearly all of their pack fit.
9 May 2008, 02:52 am
#70 CoachPete:
Yep i had no sauce or nothing,just the way you said Coach,perfect i must say.
#71 Big Hit:
Hi Big Hit
Long time.
I am with you on this one,SA have to watch out.But in all honesty i cant see much of an upset here.Wales on a Tournament that even the Hurricanes could have won so we will all find out
9 May 2008, 03:00 am
Sorry Big hit they have lost 4 starters and as Hurricane stated, playing in an average tournament. The question is, will boks win by 20 or 30 points?
9 May 2008, 03:26 am
Morning Hurricane,
I think the first test will be tight. The Bok physicality which has normally seen them through against the Celtic teams will not be as much of an issue as Gatland/Edwards have focused on making Wales much more competitive in the collisions. Allied to their hugely improved workrate and blitz defence Wales are now capable of giving any team a good game. If they do lose it won’t be by much (10 points max).
Coachpete,
I wouldn’t read too much into their four starters being missing, like De Villiers says, they won the 6N because they were a good, well-drilled team not because of individuals.
9 May 2008, 03:35 am
#74 Big Hit:
Yeah Big Hit,Wales rely on a team perfomance as a whole as compared to a couple of individuals trying to win it.
No matter what i think it will be a SA win in both matches just a matter on how much SA will win by is the question.There is that possibility of a Wales upset though,as we all know,test match rugby can go either way no matter who you are,but i am for a SA win in both tests
9 May 2008, 04:00 am
Morning guys- well I have to agree with Big Hit and Hurricane on this, i think the Dragons maybe at their best yet to face the Boks and the physicality will not be a crucial issue, after all it is rugby not badmington and coming off the six nations as winners and under the new regime of Gatland and co they will be more than up to it. Who knows, maybe the Boks are in for a lesson. I’m in favour of the Welsh causing an upset.
Hurricane – good luck tonite mate. I’ll be cheering the boys on from here in Melbourne!!
9 May 2008, 04:57 am
#73 CoachPete:
You’re kidding of course. Anyone remember the Connaught game? Whilst a 30 point winning margin is possible if the Welsh get their game plan wrong (they won’t), the suggestion that the worst case is a 20 point bok win is ridiculous.
Oz did not take Wales seriously last Spring and were distinctly rattled. Of course that was with a very weak Welsh side and before Gatland applied his considerable magic.
PdV needs to take these matches very seriously. Wales are absolutely capable of an upset.
9 May 2008, 06:01 am
I still think we (including war lord, keo) are in for a surprise with regards to team selection. P deV was selected to get transformation in SA rugby back on track and that is exactly what he will be doing over the coming years. As with any transformation period it will take time to get it right (just look at the state our country is in after 14 years of transformation).
9 May 2008, 06:55 am
Well this is all pending the team that our new coach selects…
If he decides to do what he was appointed to do and select every in form colour of player with a few key snow whites, then i wont be too confident as the coach already has his excuse of a new breed and ELV’s confusing us etc. at his disposal.
The team Keo predicted earlier this week is totally ridiculous, an excellent team but only 4 players of colour in the 22, that **** just wont stick with government. Make Rugby independant, let the fans buy shares in the teams and take politics out of the equation. Only then will we see thr true strength of the Springboks. Until then, Dont go buying your Springbok jerseys yet, you may be seriously dissapointed come end 2008.
9 May 2008, 10:17 am
jake_white
so does true strenght of the springboks mean less players of colour
10 May 2008, 00:07 am
Geez keo i admire the way you hang your balls out there but i have to agree with you allthough i will settle for to 1 point victorys just to get the year off to a winning start.
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.