The Bok No 8 debate
13 May 2008
Who should play eighthman for South Africa this season, Ryan Kankowski or Pierre Spies?
Phenomenal and freaky would be good words to describe these two players. Kankowski, who made his Test debut against Wales last November, was probably the top South African player in the first part of 2008 and looked to be a shoo-in to start at the back of the scrum for the Boks this year. That is until Spies, who missed the World Cup after blood clots were discovered on his lungs, made a comeback to the game that exceeded all expectations.
SA Rugby magazine asks two former Bok eighthmen, Wynand Claassen and Gary Teichmann, who they would play this season.
Also in the new issue of SA Rugby magazine, on sale Wednesday:
– In the wake of a brilliant World Cup, Juan Smith remains the Springboks’ most hardened warrior at the frontline. But is it time for him to leave Bloemfontein?
– Peter de Villiers’s attacking ambition suggests that positions 10, 12 and 13 will shoulder greater responsibility in 2008. Former Springbok inside backs Joel Stransky and Hennie le Roux examine the prospective 10-12-13 axis and why it is so crucial to an expansive approach.
– Mismatched teams, poor attendance figures, declining public interest … why Super Rugby is in desperate need of an overhaul
– Marius Joubert talks about losing his place to Jaque Fourie, gaining the respect of his Clermont team-mates, how much certain sections of the South African media irritate him, the guilt of carrying a Springbok contract and not playing, being knifed in the back by Western Province and text messages to Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.
– Nick Mallett on coaching against the Boks in June, the Six Nations, and why the ELVs could destroy rugby as we know it.
– While Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards never gets emotional in front of his players, he is a caring, loyal and deeply spiritual person.
– Wales Grand-Slam-winning captain Ryan Jones has his sights set on the Springboks.
– Former Test centre Jeremy Guscott on Martin Johnson‘s appointment as England manager.
– After the overwhelming success of the Varsity Cup, questions are being asked about the future of the Vodacom Cup and the National Club Championship. We put Saru president Regan Hoskins on the spot, and also speak to Maties and Ikeys coaches about this year’s Varsity Cup.
– Brian Mujati dreams of green and gold.
491 Comments
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13 May 2008, 13:13 pm
Where have you gone to my Princess.
13 May 2008, 13:14 pm
come back soon
13 May 2008, 13:15 pm
Kankowski still loks the more natural footballer. Spies is a pure athlete, but his mind just doesn’t work quickly enough from what i have seen. Give him time. SA is blessed to have both.
13 May 2008, 13:15 pm
I can’t believe this is even an issue at the moment. Spies has been out of rugby for very long, and has played, what, three matches so far? Sure he is a phenomenal talent, but has he proved himself again yet?
Ryan Kankowski has been on phenomenal form consistently throughout this season – I reckon he’s just pipping Spies for a spot on the run-on side. Kanko to play, Spies to run in from the bench.
13 May 2008, 13:19 pm
WP Till I Die,
If it was an objective debate, Kanko wins hands down. He’s playing regularly and has been playing at a consistently high level. Only emotion and the perception that Spies can deliver on his promise keeps this debate alive.
I say put Spies in the Bulls Currie Cup team and make him force his way back into selection. If talented athlete was the only criteria to selection there would have been an awful lot of caps for players who had no right to be there in reality.
13 May 2008, 13:19 pm
LUKE WATSON!
13 May 2008, 13:19 pm
Ok so we have Kanko, Spies, Diack, Willem Alberts and Duane Vermeulen.
I think it is clear that we have tremendous depth in this country at 8.
Just wish we had the same depth at first five-eight…
13 May 2008, 13:22 pm
PissAnt,
Maybe carrying the drinks bottles
13 May 2008, 13:22 pm
Sheriff,
Yeah, it’s no good having the players to win you the ball if you don’t have the players to do anything with it
13 May 2008, 13:22 pm
#5 stodders:
Aprés-nous, la deluge…
13 May 2008, 13:23 pm
PissAnt,
I think Watson will get picked this year. I think he has earned it. He’ll play 6 though.
13 May 2008, 13:23 pm
#8 stodders:
Why is it when I pull off ****** comments like that no-one wants to fight!
13 May 2008, 13:24 pm
Looks like blatent product placement to me
13 May 2008, 13:25 pm
#12 PissAnt:
Probably because all the Blue Bull supporters are on the Liefling thread!
13 May 2008, 13:25 pm
wow , good question who do you play ? the bok coach said he’s going to rotate the players , so both of them will get game time that’s for sure. Best will be to let spies play some CC rugby and get ready for the 3N than we can use both players.
13 May 2008, 13:26 pm
#5 stodders: Agreed Kanko to be no 8 – Spies still needs game time and needs to work on defence.
13 May 2008, 13:26 pm
Simple answer: Kanko is the incumbant, had a brilliant game last run out, and is the man in form. Is there any reason at all that you could motivate for taking the Bok jersey away from him?
13 May 2008, 13:27 pm
Kanko without a doubt. This should not even be a debate.
13 May 2008, 13:27 pm
Ollie le Roux
13 May 2008, 13:27 pm
#9 stodders:
Sure, look I think in Butchie we had a 10 who demanded some respect.
In Pete Grant we have someone who could potentially fit that gap.
Time will tell tho.
13 May 2008, 13:28 pm
#17 paulh:
What are you on/ on about??
13 May 2008, 13:28 pm
big joe . kanko off the bench
13 May 2008, 13:28 pm
Yeah well look, the old thing of loosies only as good as the combination as a whole applies here. Peter needs to find the combo that works for him and in Schalk, Juan and Spies he has seen what they offer.
I think the Stormers loosies has been phenominal this year but they really played well as a combo.
I will say one thing however, under the ELV’s I reckon coaches need to look to play the ‘traditional’ 7′s (or fetchers) at 8 and the traditional 8′s at 7.
I will leave you with that for a while, need to run out quickly.
13 May 2008, 13:29 pm
have good one
13 May 2008, 13:29 pm
#12 PissAnt:
Yeah I noticed that too. Nobody wants to flippen fight anymore.
Keo = House of cowards
Would you go with that?
13 May 2008, 13:30 pm
Ollie is Nuweland se liefling
13 May 2008, 13:30 pm
Spies dont even know the fundamentals of tackling, Kanko, Big Joe, Vermeulen, then Spies (can be first choice against Canada, Romania, USA, and Uruguay)
13 May 2008, 13:31 pm
#21 Dust:Too many words? I’m saying its Kanko – no debate.
13 May 2008, 13:31 pm
#22 neels:
Neels, you drinking at his time of the day already?
13 May 2008, 13:31 pm
kanko. finish and klaar like jackie selebi!
13 May 2008, 13:32 pm
PissAnt,
When you get back i would appreciate it if you could elaborate more on post 23.
13 May 2008, 13:32 pm
Kankowski without doubt. Spies on the bench.
13 May 2008, 13:32 pm
Richie, spies cant tackle for **** and kanko doesnt do any hard work
13 May 2008, 13:33 pm
#28 paulh:
I did not no he was the guy who last wore the num ba 8
13 May 2008, 13:33 pm
#30 rangerman: Kanko to get the Pikoli treatment from Div
13 May 2008, 13:34 pm
Alberts of the Lions.
He is the new Doug Hopwood of SA rugby, finish and klaar.
13 May 2008, 13:35 pm
#33 neels:
And Big Joe hasn’t run forward since when? He’s forever running across the field. Let’s face it, Big Joe had his days, the youngsters are simply better now
13 May 2008, 13:35 pm
stoders
you cant honestly say luke watson is better then burger or smith, give me break.
you think he has earned his place, you have your head in the clouds, this is the bokke not some provincial team, he was forced into the bok team and we all saw that he did not deserve to be there,next you will say he should be the no 8.
13 May 2008, 13:35 pm
#22 neels:
Neels you say that, but right now Big Yo! does not even get the nod at the Ly-ins
13 May 2008, 13:36 pm
english: the bok no 8 debate
afrikaans: die bok no eight, hy byt?
13 May 2008, 13:37 pm
#22 neels: Watson en Diack gaan Big Joe wys wat van n 8 verwag word Saterdag
13 May 2008, 13:37 pm
#34 Dust: November 24 2008: Wales 12, South Africa 34. Kanko played at 8 and scored a trie on debut.
13 May 2008, 13:37 pm
#30 rangerman:
Ok so because you’re meeting a Khoisan from CT tonite you cannot respond to my posts.
I’m talking about the “Patients key” thread
(Watch out for spelling; called wordplay with Kat & Harry)
13 May 2008, 13:37 pm
#38 oom tas:
and you’re still judging him on the time he was “forced into the bok set-up” … which means even your judgement on him is clouded!
13 May 2008, 13:38 pm
I would like to see Francois Louw in the squad. Start with Ryan , Spies on the bench. Juan and Schalla to start if fit
13 May 2008, 13:38 pm
#34 Dust: was against the baabaas.
#35 WP-Matador: spies to always be the (Mc)bride, never the zuma.
13 May 2008, 13:40 pm
41 WP-Matador
watson in a midget and diack is slow slow he walks backwards like the rest of slaapstad
13 May 2008, 13:41 pm
#43 Sheriff: oops, sorry sheriff! didnt see that post! no harm intended. i will tell you if mr x is a far kraai from the history books!
13 May 2008, 13:41 pm
Kanko without a doubt,anyone who hands off Mccaw like he was an irritating fly should get the spot for that alone.
13 May 2008, 13:41 pm
oom tas,
Burger is out. Backrow should be Watson, Smith and Kanko. More expansive and maybe a bit more lightweight than Burger, Smith, Spies, but i would be interested to see how they would fair, especially in the 3N when the ELVs are being used.
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