The Bok No 8 debate
13 May 2008
Who should play eighthman for South Africa this season, Ryan Kankowski or Pierre Spies?
Phenomenal and freaky would be good words to describe these two players. Kankowski, who made his Test debut against Wales last November, was probably the top South African player in the first part of 2008 and looked to be a shoo-in to start at the back of the scrum for the Boks this year. That is until Spies, who missed the World Cup after blood clots were discovered on his lungs, made a comeback to the game that exceeded all expectations.
SA Rugby magazine asks two former Bok eighthmen, Wynand Claassen and Gary Teichmann, who they would play this season.
Also in the new issue of SA Rugby magazine, on sale Wednesday:
– In the wake of a brilliant World Cup, Juan Smith remains the Springboks’ most hardened warrior at the frontline. But is it time for him to leave Bloemfontein?
– Peter de Villiers’s attacking ambition suggests that positions 10, 12 and 13 will shoulder greater responsibility in 2008. Former Springbok inside backs Joel Stransky and Hennie le Roux examine the prospective 10-12-13 axis and why it is so crucial to an expansive approach.
– Mismatched teams, poor attendance figures, declining public interest … why Super Rugby is in desperate need of an overhaul
– Marius Joubert talks about losing his place to Jaque Fourie, gaining the respect of his Clermont team-mates, how much certain sections of the South African media irritate him, the guilt of carrying a Springbok contract and not playing, being knifed in the back by Western Province and text messages to Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.
– Nick Mallett on coaching against the Boks in June, the Six Nations, and why the ELVs could destroy rugby as we know it.
– While Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards never gets emotional in front of his players, he is a caring, loyal and deeply spiritual person.
– Wales Grand-Slam-winning captain Ryan Jones has his sights set on the Springboks.
– Former Test centre Jeremy Guscott on Martin Johnson‘s appointment as England manager.
– After the overwhelming success of the Varsity Cup, questions are being asked about the future of the Vodacom Cup and the National Club Championship. We put Saru president Regan Hoskins on the spot, and also speak to Maties and Ikeys coaches about this year’s Varsity Cup.
– Brian Mujati dreams of green and gold.
491 Comments
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13 May 2008, 15:22 pm
wp-girltjie… nope, 100 natalion coastal, but i was a fan of old fearless ‘crikey mate’
13 May 2008, 15:22 pm
With that hairstyle, KankHOFFski should be a shoe in for the bok side. We need to compete withe the all blacks in the hair do(n’t) stakes.
Jokes aside, there is no reason why PdV cannot use them as and when needed, Horses for Courses. Kanko for the games where it is a more flowing, open running game, and Spies when it is a tighter, more physical game. That said, whoever is used will certainly not let the side down in any type of game.
As for no.6, without Schalk, we have Wickus, Jacques Botes (underated), Baywatch, Solly and then maybe we can think about Luuuuuke.
13 May 2008, 15:22 pm
McSchalkBurger,
To be fair to Rodney So’oailo, he is a very good, consistent 8 man, and he is the perfect foil for McCaw at test level. He has an incredibly high work rate too and you won’t be able to lay the blame for going missing at his door.
See his run in Durban in the test match last year for proof of some of his other qualities.
13 May 2008, 15:22 pm
This my team boys and the team to play the Wales test. You’ve heard it from me first!
15 – Jantjes
14 – Chavanga
13 – Fourie
12 – De Villiers
11 – Habana
10 – James
9 – January
8 – Spies
7 – Smith
6 – Burger
5 – Matfield
4 – Botha
3 – Botha (BJ)
2 – Smit
1 – van der Merwe
16 – Du Plessis
17 – Mujati
18 – Bekker
19 – Kankowski
20 – FDP
21 – Grant
22 – Steyn
13 May 2008, 15:23 pm
Can’t wait…
13 May 2008, 15:23 pm
198 the all black are spoiled for choice themselves…
13 May 2008, 15:23 pm
#202 Hooker2: solly who?
“solly i dont like to plactice?”
13 May 2008, 15:24 pm
btw, Solly was a joke. just in case some of you didn’t get that…..
13 May 2008, 15:24 pm
#205 to eata da cheeeecken skim?
13 May 2008, 15:25 pm
Rangerman, I just don’t get these players that get the opportunity, then decide that they don’t want to practice. Give the opportunity to someone else.
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
Spear Spies =
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
#161 RedLion:
Red, I can understand your frustration but truth be told there can be only one. Secondly, we have 4 years to get our next world cup winning 8 up to a desirable experience level, and in all likelyhood, that will be either Spies or Kanko, or another youngster still to come through. I dont think it will be big Joe.
That being said, he has played out of his skin and has been impressive no doubt. but if we were to pick him now, how unexperienced would our 8 be in the next world cup? Joe will be 32/33. Not over the hill, but kanko will be 28/29 with 5 GOOD years of experience in him, and his legs will still be tairing up and down the white lines.
its a no brainer really.
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
#170 Zulushark
we’ve been threw this before f steyn does’nt deserve to be in the bok side (lack of form)espacially at 12 and why in the world would you pick spies at 13 .this is test rugby not school boy rugby and definatly not at 6 he played 1 test there last year and had a shocker
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
#199 stodders: McG will get the job no doubt, but what the corwd are saying get the SA coaches along for the ride and coach the mid week team, it will more to tour in terms of bite and also will help the Lions. The altitude will kill the Lions off though.
I say Wales will be doing some cryotherapy before they go to SA. The gonna have a long tour, take it from me. The ELVs have made forwards and backs fitter, faster and quicker in decision making. The game will just be too fast even with them playing the old laws
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
92 rangerman
sorry been away, joe has made more tackles, stolen line out ball, joe always offloads or finds a way to offload in the tackle and in 46 tests has never had a bad game in a bok no 8 jersey
13 May 2008, 15:26 pm
#204 Isigidi:
not bad, but you’ll need to replace Burger and I reckon De Villiers will go with FDP ahead of January in the starting line up.
13 May 2008, 15:27 pm
If Monty doesn’t play this year, who is kicking the penalties? If there is one thing SA will need, it is a consistent goal kicker. Unless of course PdV dispenses with the territorial, suffocating gameplan that Jake White perfected?
13 May 2008, 15:27 pm
oh, and wouldn’t it be great if SA didn’t pick a specialist goal kicker in time for Lions arrival. I see shades of Monty kicking in 97! Bring it on!!!
13 May 2008, 15:29 pm
JL1,
altitude was supposed to kill them off in 1997 as well. What happened again?
13 May 2008, 15:29 pm
And wickus has played all games in the S14 luke missed one because of flu
13 May 2008, 15:30 pm
Whether it’s Spies or Kanko, I’m sure I’m not alone in saying a BIG thank you to the man upstairs that it won’t be Rossouw!!!!
Apart from pushing Cueto’s toe over the white stuff (which was admittedly pretty important) and a few good games in England, he is NOT an 8th man.
13 May 2008, 15:30 pm
#216 Vetkoek:
Aaah thanks, forgot he will not be available. Wikus it shall be then.
13 May 2008, 15:30 pm
I am more worried about the bok coach than the no 8 debate.
13 May 2008, 15:31 pm
JL1,
I agree about the ELVs giving the SH teams an edge, especially SA and the ABs because they have teams that look to dominate their opponents in the physical stakes. I can see both the Boks and ABs making mistakes because of having to go back to the old laws, but that won’t mean the scorelines will be any prettier for the tourists, it will just allow them to stay in the game a bit longer.
The pre-3N tours will be an eye opener for the NH.
13 May 2008, 15:32 pm
jondood,
How you doing? I haven’t seen you on for a while…
13 May 2008, 15:32 pm
bless your sould vetkoek, i am glad someone els eis also thankfull for that fact…
13 May 2008, 15:32 pm
crikey,
whilst you’re blessing souls, mine needs some cleansing
13 May 2008, 15:33 pm
Didn’t Spies play on the wing before he was moved to the pack?
13 May 2008, 15:33 pm
#219 stodders:
13 May 2008, 15:33 pm
stodders
Fine thanks hope you are doing well.
Waiting for the Tri-Nations.
I hoe PDV can surprise us like Jake White did in his 1st Tri-Nations.
13 May 2008, 15:33 pm
At least Danie Roussouw will become a memory.
13 May 2008, 15:34 pm
#223 jondood:
Don’t worry boet. Muir and Gold will be the most influential assistant coaches in the modern era. Add John S and I wonder who will be the REAL Bok coach?
13 May 2008, 15:34 pm
#228 stavros:
yeah- but that was at schoolboy level where you get away with simply being bigger and stronger than most of your peers. He was quickly exposed on the wing for the Bulls.
13 May 2008, 15:35 pm
212 Interesting way to look at things stavros, all the 8′s we have are good.
I would say that PdV has plenty of forwards to choose from and all positions are fully stocked except for TH prop. BJ’s move to paddy land is the wrong move.
13 May 2008, 15:35 pm
#227 stodders: Lost my breath,
You are not very good with geography are you? Last time I checked, Durban and Cape Town was at sea level, unless someone moved it around. That was where they played in 97
13 May 2008, 15:37 pm
#234 RedLion: But as someone else said earlier it is about the backrow combination.
13 May 2008, 15:37 pm
213 st.a.t.w
Spies at 13 is tongue in cheek stuff. As you know he played all his junior rugby on the wing and in full flight could be quite a sight, especially running at those welsh centre. Tackling a 115kg centre all afternoon takes it out of you.
As for Steyn at 12, well personally I think it’s his best position. It suits him better than f/back where is not quite involved enuf and it keeps him close enuf to f/half but not having to make split second decisions. It also gives him that fraction more space to get his big fame off the mark quickly. Yes, he has some shortcoming as a centre, but I believe it is a matter of time before he run the show for both the sharks and boks from inside centre
13 May 2008, 15:38 pm
JL1,
True, but they had been moved all over the place in the build up matches. I guess the SA administrators thought they didn’t need to use Loftus and Ellis Park to dispose of the rag tag bunch of tourists posing as Lions
13 May 2008, 15:38 pm
#232 Isigidi:
on the subject of coaching staff, can I just ask how that chap from the Lions got the job of technical analyst? Unless PDV wants to analyse the quickest way to get a hiding each week, and then do the exact opposite of what he says?
13 May 2008, 15:39 pm
15 Steyn
14 Tonderai
13 Jacques
12 Jean
11 Habana
10 Butchie
9 FDP
8 KANKO
7 Juan
6 Incredible Schalk
5 Bakkies
4 Matfield
3 BJ
2 Smittie
1 Heinke
Bench:
Bismark, CJ, Muller, Joe, Spies
Ruan and Jantjies on the bench
with the 5-2 split Spies can cover loosies and backline
a B-team could look like this:
15 percy
14 Odwa
13 Murray
12 Barrit
11 Pieterson
10 Grant
9 Ricky
8 Alberts
7 Wickus
6 Brussow
5 Pieterse
4 Bekker
3 Mujati
2 Brits
1 Guthro
16 reynecke 17 carstens 18 skeate 19 botes 20 vermaak 21 bosman 22 ludik
13 May 2008, 15:40 pm
#231 Comment by
Rossouw not the best but good to have on bench for flank/lock option.
See PdV says this is last year over seas based players will be considered for Bok team. Do the guys deteriate when they go over or does the experience of playing against foreign players regularly dull them or did he just have nothing better to say
13 May 2008, 15:41 pm
JL1,
Seems your administrators have learned half a trick in the last 11 years. The first test is to be played Durban, then Loftus then Ellis Park. So the Lions have been given a good chance to get off to a good start
13 May 2008, 15:42 pm
stodders, i will bless you with a smile…
whatever happened to hmmmm and ikey? do u know?
13 May 2008, 15:42 pm
crikey,
Pieterse is retiring. See other thread
13 May 2008, 15:44 pm
crikey,
I don’t know about Hmmm, but Ikeys banned herself. I still speak to her offline from time to time.
13 May 2008, 15:44 pm
What about Quinton Davids?
13 May 2008, 15:44 pm
no debate….Spies rules and Kankowski sucks!
13 May 2008, 15:45 pm
#242 stodders: Yes, I would agree
I would have opened their tour at Ellis Park and then the next one at Loftus and then play a game at Rustenburg and one in Potchefstroom
That will destroy the Lions forever, game, set and match!!
Although I have to say not many people (SH) respect NH rugby (quality) at this stage
13 May 2008, 15:46 pm
he he how do you ban yourself he he, that must take a lot of restraint…
#247 you must be a blou bal…
13 May 2008, 15:46 pm
who would you pick on the bench bare in mind that whomever is on the bench should cover yhe flank and 8 man position and allthough they are brilliant 8th men i would’nt send them on as sub for 6 & 7.its ok if its a straigt swap between the 2 of them but what if 6&7 get injured.mind you i’ve never seen kanko play at 6 OR 7.saw spies play there and he was terrible.
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