The Bok No 8 debate
13 May 2008
Who should play eighthman for South Africa this season, Ryan Kankowski or Pierre Spies?
Phenomenal and freaky would be good words to describe these two players. Kankowski, who made his Test debut against Wales last November, was probably the top South African player in the first part of 2008 and looked to be a shoo-in to start at the back of the scrum for the Boks this year. That is until Spies, who missed the World Cup after blood clots were discovered on his lungs, made a comeback to the game that exceeded all expectations.
SA Rugby magazine asks two former Bok eighthmen, Wynand Claassen and Gary Teichmann, who they would play this season.
Also in the new issue of SA Rugby magazine, on sale Wednesday:
– In the wake of a brilliant World Cup, Juan Smith remains the Springboks’ most hardened warrior at the frontline. But is it time for him to leave Bloemfontein?
– Peter de Villiers’s attacking ambition suggests that positions 10, 12 and 13 will shoulder greater responsibility in 2008. Former Springbok inside backs Joel Stransky and Hennie le Roux examine the prospective 10-12-13 axis and why it is so crucial to an expansive approach.
– Mismatched teams, poor attendance figures, declining public interest … why Super Rugby is in desperate need of an overhaul
– Marius Joubert talks about losing his place to Jaque Fourie, gaining the respect of his Clermont team-mates, how much certain sections of the South African media irritate him, the guilt of carrying a Springbok contract and not playing, being knifed in the back by Western Province and text messages to Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.
– Nick Mallett on coaching against the Boks in June, the Six Nations, and why the ELVs could destroy rugby as we know it.
– While Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards never gets emotional in front of his players, he is a caring, loyal and deeply spiritual person.
– Wales Grand-Slam-winning captain Ryan Jones has his sights set on the Springboks.
– Former Test centre Jeremy Guscott on Martin Johnson‘s appointment as England manager.
– After the overwhelming success of the Varsity Cup, questions are being asked about the future of the Vodacom Cup and the National Club Championship. We put Saru president Regan Hoskins on the spot, and also speak to Maties and Ikeys coaches about this year’s Varsity Cup.
– Brian Mujati dreams of green and gold.
491 Comments
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13 May 2008, 16:18 pm
I wonder if provincialism has anything to do with the posts above (including mine)
13 May 2008, 16:19 pm
178
Ok I get. You like Spies as in like/dig/smaak/luv/puppuppy luv Spies.
13 May 2008, 16:19 pm
later ppl. back to work.
13 May 2008, 16:19 pm
#300 asha1:
if its the stormers then we will lose because there will still be 20 positions out of the 45 not named
hehehehehe
13 May 2008, 16:20 pm
#302 RedLion:
I think him and tacitus stalk spies and steal his underwear off his washing line
13 May 2008, 16:21 pm
#301 MR Lam:
lol
13 May 2008, 16:22 pm
I would test Spies for drugs. There is something fishy about this boy.
13 May 2008, 16:24 pm
#307 RedLion:
for your sake, i hope all the bulls supporters are still on that hougaardt thread!
13 May 2008, 16:24 pm
This just in, Pieter De Villiers rating scales:
Loose-head
1 CJ Van Der Linde
2 H Van Der Merwe
3 JD Moller
Hooker
1 J Smit
2 B Du Plessis
3 S Brits
Tight-head
1 BJ Botha
2 J Du Plessis
3 W Du Preez
4 B Mujati
4-lock
1 B Botha
2 J Muller
5-lock
1 V Matfield
2 A Bekker
Flank Fetcher
1 S Burger
2 W Van Heerden
3 L Watson
Flank Carrier
1 J Smith
2 D Vermeulen
3 J Van Niekerk
#8
1 R Kankowski
2 P Spies
3 D Vermeulen
Scrummie
1 F Du Preez
2 R Januarie
3 R Pienaar
4 B Conradie
Flyhalf
1 B James
2 P Grant
3 R Pienaar
Leftwing
1 B Habana
2 O nDungane
3 J Nokwe
Inside Centre
1 J De Villiers
2 F Steyn
3 M Bosman
Outside Centre
1 J Fourie
2 A Pretorius
3 M Joubert
4 W Murray
Rightwing
1 T Chavanga
2 A nDungane
3 JP Pieterson
4 L Ludik
Fullback
1 F Steyn
2 P Montgomery
3 C Jantjes
13 May 2008, 16:25 pm
#308 asha1:
You gotta take drugs to confidently call your number 10 Liefling
13 May 2008, 16:25 pm
#295 Sheriff:
Don’t want to get into an argument over PdV’s ability to coach the Bok team or not. Give him a chance, he’s in the hot seat after all.
I’m worried about the fact that he never even coached a S14 side before. The most senior team he coached was as an advisor at Maties. Hardly a good resume ON SENIOR level.
He won everything Jake won on Junior level I know, but i still think he need to surround himself with clever rugby people the way he has done.
13 May 2008, 16:26 pm
#307 RedLion:
agreed he came back after his injury a helluva lot bigger than before he go injured although he does seem slower
13 May 2008, 16:26 pm
#311 Isigidi:
to be fair though, White never coached a senior side either.
13 May 2008, 16:26 pm
Have to agree that Kanko is the more naturally talented and rounded of the 2. Spies is a demon though and can gain shed loads in a very short time especially when he’s surrounded by forwards who haven’t played wing before
) Remember that try against England last year when he broke off the back? Watch that and tell me you don’t want him in the Bok team!
Only issue I have with Spies is the errors he makes. I’ve seen him give away more than one intercept but these things can be corrected through coaching.
13 May 2008, 16:28 pm
#312 MR Lam:
slower as in pace or slower as in “like whoooaaa maannn, this rugby shiiiiittt is like sooooo coooollll”?
Cos the second is a dead giveaway.
13 May 2008, 16:28 pm
#309 Comment by:
and this list from where? i was trying to get some work done, but that has really chucked the cat amongst the pigeons.
13 May 2008, 16:28 pm
15) Steyn – need space, no flyhalve
14) Chavanga – SPEED
13) Habana – Capitalize on the Jean’s ability to break the line
12) De Villiers – What a footballer – BRILLIANT
11) JP Pietersen – If he’s awake
10) Grant – prefer butch, but lets rewars s14 form
09) Du Preez – just
08) Konkowski – A LEGEND in the making
07) Smith – the girls must be easy in FS
06) Burger -supersized with fries
05) Muller – committed, let Bakkies go
04) Bekker – read comment next to 08
03) Mujati – put a smile on Stofile’s face
02) Smit – YEAH BABY
01) The “Beast” – put a smile on Mugabe’s face
13 May 2008, 16:29 pm
#310 Vetkoek:
…. and his inside centre “meisiekind”
jeez, what IS going on inside the bulls camp??
no wonder the chearleaders are virtually naked …. i’m sure they dont even notice!
13 May 2008, 16:30 pm
My Mama got it for me ;-}
13 May 2008, 16:31 pm
Mirrrrrrrrrraggggggg Fokkerrrrrrrrrrrrrsssssss en Isigidi
Hoe gaan dit in Rugbyland?
13 May 2008, 16:31 pm
#315 Vetkoek:
lmao
13 May 2008, 16:33 pm
#315 Vetkoek:
both I think
LOL
13 May 2008, 16:34 pm
13 May 2008, 16:35 pm
I’m still absolutely flabbergasted that Tacitus has not posted on this thread at all today.
The only logical explanation I can think of is that he became so excited at seeing the title of the thread that he went into a fit and collapsed, foaming at the mouth.
13 May 2008, 16:35 pm
#320 grootblousmile:
wassup GBS lewe jy nog
13 May 2008, 16:36 pm
cab,
You just said it…Spies looked great against an understrength, weakened English touring team. If that’s the measure of greatness the Rugby Halls of Fame would be bursting at the seams
Spies is just coming back from injury. He is without doubt a super athlete, but he lacks positional sense and rugby nous. His speed and strength get him out of trouble at provincial level, but at the top level, he would be ruthlessly exposed IMO more often than not. He could be a very good player, he’s just not a very good one yet. Let him learn the ropes. Playing 8 is not an easy position to master after all.
13 May 2008, 16:37 pm
#311 Isigidi:
Ok now you want us to “give him a chance”
However, the previous posts suggest quite specifically that he is probably not competent and really did not deserve to get this role.
I would strongly suggest to you then that you steer clear from vague perceptions and then make black -white conclusions. We covered those concerns at length when he was appointed.
Since then we have been encouraged by what he was up to and what he said.
Peter, like any other coach, must deliver or vacate the role.
13 May 2008, 16:37 pm
wptid
his turn to steal spies underwear so he is busy putting on his camo’s and black is beautiful war paint
13 May 2008, 16:38 pm
#319 Comment by:
please ask yo mama when Beast will be allowed to wear a green and gold jersey.
13 May 2008, 16:38 pm
cab,
One last thing. Spies has to play enough games to show he is in form. In that regard, Kankowski is miles ahead of him as he has played the whole S14.
Kankowski is the incumbent in the Bok 8 jersey. IMO, Spies has not done anything in his limited S14 to suggest he should be wearing it instead of him.
13 May 2008, 16:38 pm
whats the use of posting a blue bulls thread (hougie) if they come here too?
13 May 2008, 16:38 pm
#118 greatest13gerber: Richter was as thick as pigshit. And slow.
13 May 2008, 16:40 pm
#324 WP Till I Die:
naa, i think he’s still locked up in his bedroom closet with the cover of this issues Sa Rugby mag.
13 May 2008, 16:41 pm
326
Well said Stodders. Kanko is the man.
13 May 2008, 16:42 pm
Tacitus is here, watching, circling his prey, waiting for the right time to strike! All those who have besmirched the name of Spies will get what’s coming to them by the words of Tacitus
13 May 2008, 16:43 pm
RedLion,
He’s the man right now. And after all, that’s all you guys have been asking for from your selectors. Pick the players on merit based on form and not provincial bias or colour.
13 May 2008, 16:43 pm
Lammie,
Nee man ek kap dit nog uit die kant………. fokkkkkkkkk voort, fokkkkkk Noord !
Hoe gaan dit nou met jou?
13 May 2008, 16:43 pm
This year, we believe.
13 May 2008, 16:46 pm
#335 stodders:
Not unless he has a “phantom” login – he’s not on the users online list…
13 May 2008, 16:46 pm
Kanko is the man on form at the moment……
We actually do not have a shortage of quality No 8′s at all in SA
Kanko
Sies
Duane Vermeulen
Alberts
Big Joke
13 May 2008, 16:47 pm
WPTID,
We’re safe for now then
13 May 2008, 16:47 pm
just read the Hougie thread
ROTFLMFAO at some of the posts and a BB thread with only 24 posts, TAC has left the planet, wonder if JJ Harmse has anything to do with DH injury, the way he idolizes DH probably slipped him a roofie and then something else at a post game interview
13 May 2008, 16:47 pm
…ek bedoel SPIES nie sies nie…. sorry Pierretjie…
13 May 2008, 16:49 pm
#337 grootblousmile:
kan nie kla nie raak net besig by die werk maar dis maar gewoon weg
13 May 2008, 16:49 pm
332 Nooo.
How dare you such a thing about a NTVL player – Spies was given video tapes of Richter so that he could study 8th man play.
13 May 2008, 16:50 pm
#339 WP Till I Die:
where do you see users logged in
13 May 2008, 16:52 pm
Which SA teams will make the semis?
* Stormers
38 % of all votes
* Sharks & Stormers
29% of all votes
* Sharks
14% of all votes
Total Votes: 818 Started: May 12, 2008
see which is the most supported team on this web site
GO STORMERS
13 May 2008, 16:53 pm
MR Lam
Go to the top right hand corner of this thread. Below the ads you will see a “UserOnline” tab, below that a link saying something like “121 User Online”; click on it, it will show you how many registered guys are on and how many guests.
Just note that the registered guys on there, it shows their login names, not the nicks as they display on the thread.
Go forth with this knowledge and feel empowered…
13 May 2008, 16:56 pm
#347 MR Lam: Could also explain why there are so many dumb sh!ts on this web site
13 May 2008, 16:56 pm
#326 stodders: yes, bit chose those words careful to reflect that he is still a work in progress.
sometimes you have a gutfeel about certain players and i have that about Spies (not hard to see why i suppose), but other than his speed and size, he is superfit makes alot of important cover tackles and is learning to get stuck in to the tight exchnages when needed, in short he was getting to be worldclass very quickly, even against a sub-standard england side, he stepped and powered through and away from tackles like they were plodders, which they aren’t, no-one is at that level….i thought he would take the world cup by storm, lets see what happens, but i think he could be a revelation.
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