The Bok No 8 debate
13 May 2008
Who should play eighthman for South Africa this season, Ryan Kankowski or Pierre Spies?
Phenomenal and freaky would be good words to describe these two players. Kankowski, who made his Test debut against Wales last November, was probably the top South African player in the first part of 2008 and looked to be a shoo-in to start at the back of the scrum for the Boks this year. That is until Spies, who missed the World Cup after blood clots were discovered on his lungs, made a comeback to the game that exceeded all expectations.
SA Rugby magazine asks two former Bok eighthmen, Wynand Claassen and Gary Teichmann, who they would play this season.
Also in the new issue of SA Rugby magazine, on sale Wednesday:
– In the wake of a brilliant World Cup, Juan Smith remains the Springboks’ most hardened warrior at the frontline. But is it time for him to leave Bloemfontein?
– Peter de Villiers’s attacking ambition suggests that positions 10, 12 and 13 will shoulder greater responsibility in 2008. Former Springbok inside backs Joel Stransky and Hennie le Roux examine the prospective 10-12-13 axis and why it is so crucial to an expansive approach.
– Mismatched teams, poor attendance figures, declining public interest … why Super Rugby is in desperate need of an overhaul
– Marius Joubert talks about losing his place to Jaque Fourie, gaining the respect of his Clermont team-mates, how much certain sections of the South African media irritate him, the guilt of carrying a Springbok contract and not playing, being knifed in the back by Western Province and text messages to Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.
– Nick Mallett on coaching against the Boks in June, the Six Nations, and why the ELVs could destroy rugby as we know it.
– While Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards never gets emotional in front of his players, he is a caring, loyal and deeply spiritual person.
– Wales Grand-Slam-winning captain Ryan Jones has his sights set on the Springboks.
– Former Test centre Jeremy Guscott on Martin Johnson‘s appointment as England manager.
– After the overwhelming success of the Varsity Cup, questions are being asked about the future of the Vodacom Cup and the National Club Championship. We put Saru president Regan Hoskins on the spot, and also speak to Maties and Ikeys coaches about this year’s Varsity Cup.
– Brian Mujati dreams of green and gold.
491 Comments
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13 May 2008, 16:58 pm
#347 MR Lam:
Wasn’t always that way – lots of “mooiweersvriende” who’ve suddenly sprung up on this site, people like success I guess.
Last year this time there were very few of us Stormers supporters on here.
Same reason I have a lot of respect for the Blue Bull supporters who still grind it out on here day after day, guys like grootblousmile, AB, etc. – heck even BlueBlood, St. Petersburgbok and greatest13gerber!
13 May 2008, 17:00 pm
anyway as you see, I agree Kanowski is the form 8 of the S14, he has been brilliant, i dont think the boks can go wrong here really.
if that list by “Comment By” at 309 is correct, holy **** things are looking good.
13 May 2008, 17:04 pm
SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13 May 2008, 17:04 pm
actually that list at 309 is frighteningly good…perhaps PdV will be the revelation.
13 May 2008, 17:05 pm
#351 WP Till I Die: Fanks, julle sal my met ‘n voorhamer moet slaat om my hier weg te kry……..
Hehehe
13 May 2008, 17:06 pm
I find myself pretty nervous for 3 reasons:
1. When is Tacitus going to strike?
2. Will MR Lam use the P word again in front of the in laws this weekend?
3. Will the webmaster survive the stress when 1,000 bulls supporters concurrently jump from the Liefling thread to the Pierre thread?
Time will tell.
13 May 2008, 17:11 pm
#356 Johannes Expatinus: Lam is going to use the P word plenty times this weekend. Everytime the Lions score.
I think Spies is not focussed this season…he has somebody in his life…..TACT!!!!!
Still 1000 Bull supporters left?
13 May 2008, 17:12 pm
Hmmm, yeah, tough question, keo.
The Sharks’ most valued player versus the captain of the SA Most Overrated XV.
I don’t think Pieter de Villiers will have to expend too much brain-power on this non-issue.
13 May 2008, 17:17 pm
#314 Yetirat: That was against England F.
13 May 2008, 17:19 pm
#22 neels: Agree Neels.
13 May 2008, 17:20 pm
@ 309
I like except for Bolla. Why no Vermaak or that Kocky guy.
If this list is the real deal then bravo PdV.
13 May 2008, 17:22 pm
Osama sien wie Pieter Snorre kies……..
13 May 2008, 17:41 pm
#288 MR Lam:
the Bulls…my friend, have the best record of any south african side.
They have actually WON the whole frikken thing before!
…you just keep living the dream buddy!
13 May 2008, 17:43 pm
#289 Vetkoek:
…well, with a name like “Vetkoek”…..he has all the reference he needs right at home.
13 May 2008, 17:59 pm
Brussow’s the best no6 (fetcher, ball distributor, and ball carrier) at present. Where was Shalk and Luke for that matter when the cheetahs played the stormers?. One should look at the stats prior to bargaining on names.
13 May 2008, 18:02 pm
Saw Spies play for the first time this weekend, damn, he is massive!
[not implying anything Tacitus]
13 May 2008, 18:05 pm
#365: Oh really , Sh*t well phone Pieter De Villiers and tell him to leave out Schalk then. Brussouw must be the best then.
13 May 2008, 18:06 pm
#366 Johannes Expatinus: Yeah, he’s a big boytjie, would’nt mind seeing him back permanently on the wing….. he’ll be a devastating runner…….. a la Lomu….
13 May 2008, 18:08 pm
For consistency and longevity, Ryan Kankowski.
Pierre should play from the bench, he is a game breaker.
13 May 2008, 18:11 pm
#364 St.Petersburgbok:
THE BULLS
2007 WON
2006 4th place
2005 3rd place
2004 6th place
2003 6th Place
2002 12th Place (bottom)
2001 12th Place (bottom)
2000 11th Place (2nd from bottom)
1999 12th Place (bottom)
1998 11th Place (2nd from bottom)
1997 8th Place
1996 3rd Place
13 May 2008, 18:11 pm
#368: Yes yes. Ek het ook al voorheen daaraan gedink dat Spies kan nogal moerse usefull wees in n game met baie beserings in die agterlyn. Of selfs op die bench as ‘n impak speler vir die agterlyn , as die forwads goed doen. Dis moontlik.
As ek in beheer van Spies was sou ek hom laat Sevens speel het tydens die meerderheid van die Super 14 en hom twee super 14 games gee aan die einde van die kompetisie. Sevens sal Spies se game “complete” maak ek reken.
13 May 2008, 18:12 pm
#363 St.Petersburgbok:
THE SHARKS
2007 Lost the Final
2006 6th Place
2005 12th Place (bottom)
2004 7th Place
2003 11th Place
2002 10th Place
2001 Lost the Final
2000 12th Place (bottom)
1999 7th Place
1998 3rd Place
1997 4th Place
1996 Lost the final
THE STORMERS
2007 10th Place
2006 9th Place
2005 9th Place
2004 3rd Place
2003 9th Place
2002 7th Place
2001 7th Place
2000 5th Place
1999 2nd Place
1998 9th Place
1997 NO WESTERN CAPE TEAM (FREE STATE TEAM)
1996 11th
13 May 2008, 18:14 pm
#363 St.Petersburgbok:
with those results, the Sharks are the chockers, the Stormers are consistently cuck and the Bulls are mostly **** bar one or two results.
Looks to me like all our teams lack any kind of consistency.
13 May 2008, 18:16 pm
THE CRUSADERS
2007 3rd Place
2006 1st Place
2005 1st Place
2004 2nd Place
2003 2nd Place
2002 1st Place
2001 10th Place
2000 2nd Place
1999 4th Place
1998 2nd Place
1997 6th
1996 11th
13 May 2008, 18:20 pm
#373 stavros:
Well if you open your eyes a little. The Sharks ,
Kevin Putt era:
2005 12th Place (bottom)
2004 7th Place
2003 11th Place
2002 10th Place
and then the **** Muir Era:
2008 Who knows? they are right up there!
2007 Lost the Final
2006 6th Place
No consistency in those 3 years ??
No consistency in the 3 years of glory for the bulls reaching two Semi’s and then a final winning it?
Jy praat net ‘n klomp k*k man…
13 May 2008, 18:25 pm
#375 wp_boytjie: Pasop, die Griek gaan jou met ‘n paar Guaves & Grendelsh gooi !
13 May 2008, 18:27 pm
…… of uit sy Kafee jaag as jy weer gaan Siggies koop !
hehehe
13 May 2008, 18:28 pm
Lol
13 May 2008, 18:45 pm
To stodders it is good to see you are still posting on this site all i can say is SPIES IS PURE CLASS and that says it all.If he can bypass any serious injuries he could become the best No8 ever to wear the bok jersey,just like NAAS THE BAAS was the BEST No10 ever to wear a bok jersey.I cannot rember if you are a hearts or a gers fan,but as i am a gers fan i wish RANGERS al the best for tomorrow night in manchester and say bring the UEFA CUP back to IBROX and make us even prouder of you,and kick advocaat`s arse along with the rest of his team all the way back to ST.PETERSBURG where they belong.
13 May 2008, 18:48 pm
Francois Louw is the man
Schalk is the Superhero and the best in the world
Kankowski is sounds like a Russian ballet star, but he is the form eightman
Van Niekerk will strenghten the team when he comes on
Spies need to play some more games, but will create magic from the bench
Danie Rossouw need to learn to hold on to the ball in the contact and gain meters
Duane Vermeulen has a tendency to knock the ball on
Juan Smith is the best in his position in the world
Wickus provides some grunt, but his defense is not great
Watson is also good enough to play for many a country
In a nutshell, the Boks have got almost a team of loosies
I cannot wait for the flyhalf debate
13 May 2008, 18:59 pm
#380
What is your opinion on Brussow? See 365
13 May 2008, 18:59 pm
big joe
13 May 2008, 19:06 pm
#381 AP: Brussouw is good……. but we literally sit with a horde of absolute quality loosies in SA.
Who do you choose and who do you leave out?
Some other unsung heroes amongst our loosies that will unfortunately miss out completely include Jacques Botes, Keegan Daniel, Baywatch Grobler, Ernst Joubert, Stegman………… most of them would walk into most international teams, bar NZ and Ozzie maybe…..
And these I’ve mentioned above are’nt even in the reconing here in SA….
Quite a conundrum, but a lekker position to be in…. if only we had such an abundance of quality Fly Halves……
13 May 2008, 19:13 pm
#376 grootblousmile:
ha ha.
#375 wp_boytjie:
Three years does not measure consistency. compare it to the crusaders.
12 years of Super rugby
9 of those years are in the top 4 (of which 8 are in the top 3 and 3 are 1st place)
wp_boytjie, if you really believe in “consistency in the 3 years of glory for the bulls reaching two Semi’s and then a final winning it”, then there is little wonder why our teams are not as consistently (the way i understand the word) up in the top 4 as the Crusaders…
Your expectations of a winning culture are too low. In fact, they’re only slightly more flattering than average.
I myself, believe we should be aiming higher, and I look forward to the day I can look back on at least 5 years of Super rugby top 4 finishes for SA teams (read at least two), year in and year out.
13 May 2008, 19:14 pm
Big Joe plays good rugby now but cannot improve, this is his best
Spies needs game time and getting used to the new laws, will take some time considering how long it took the Bulls when that happens we will have the next IRB player of the year
Kanko in form and must be the logical choice now..
Diack will not in the same class as the others and Vermeulen is a natural that needs maturing
13 May 2008, 19:17 pm
#371 wp_boytjie: and #368 grootblousmile: He must be the perfect sevens player. and could become the perfect 8. If he could kick well, imagine him as a 15!
13 May 2008, 19:22 pm
#377 grootblousmile:
tree rend palony, for rend tamatish, 4 slice potatish and half loaf white mek it sneppy.
13 May 2008, 19:34 pm
Spies is an enormous talent, but now I’ll go for Kranko. Spies was tried on the wing at the Bulls but didn’t cut it. However, I still think he will be a Lomu on the wing!
13 May 2008, 19:44 pm
Van julle mense is so een ooglik dit is skrik wekkend. BIG JOE het bewys hy blink uit in ‘n span “my span” wat glad nie goed gedoen het nie. Dan kom party van julle drolle en se Big Joe kan nie beter en Spies het nog soveel plek om te verbeter. Skrik wakker, jou poepol.
13 May 2008, 20:03 pm
#389 Ed_the_Lion: Hey Ed I’m not a Leeu fan but I happen to wholeheartedly agree with you man.
13 May 2008, 20:36 pm
#390 TASSIES: Me toooooooo!!!!!!!
13 May 2008, 20:43 pm
Thank you guys…Sorry for my bad grammer and language though.
13 May 2008, 20:52 pm
#392 Ed_the_Lion: Jy’s die poepol dink ek. Maak net jou punt sonder om ander mense te beledig. Elkeen is geregtig op sy opinie.
13 May 2008, 21:18 pm
#372 stavros: The Sharks finished 5th in 2006, not 6th. Thanks to a points difference of 1 because the Stormers rolled over and played dead against the Bulls. How many points did the Bulls need to beat the Stormers by to get into a semi? Something ridiculous like 37 clear points. And the Bulls won by the exact amount they needed to finish 4th. HMMMMMMM.
13 May 2008, 21:27 pm
You want class or flash
Class
6 Wikus
7 Juan
8 Joe
Flash
6 Burger
7 Joe
8 Kanko
Potential
6 Brussouw
7 Spies
8 Vermeulen
Action Stations
6 Watson
7 Louw
8 Alberts
Take your picks or do some swapping of your own
13 May 2008, 21:29 pm
#394 wooden spoon: Although I am a Stormer supporter I must say that specific game (I was there at Newlands) was too obvious.
13 May 2008, 21:32 pm
#395 skopskiet: Joe Van Niekerk hasn’t been too “classy” over the last 2 years. You seem fixated with him skoppie, the other end of the scale to Jake (almost akin to Tacitus’ adoration of Spies).
13 May 2008, 21:35 pm
#396 Boerboel: Yep, something was very, very fishy that day (and it wasn’t the Sharks).
13 May 2008, 21:36 pm
Skop – of course injuries have taken their toll on Joe, but he seems to be your new golden boy.
13 May 2008, 21:37 pm
#397 wooden spoon:
Nope just a balanced observation, its the Kankowski and Spies adu;ating groupies I wonder about, Joe is just a very good balanced and intelligent rugby player, the other two still have to learn what he’s almost forgotten already.
Joe in a bok jersey, you cannot get better, Spies and/or Kankowski, jury is still out I’m afraid.
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