No silverware for Smitty
29 Jun 2008
John Smit’s bad luck in domestic finals continued when Clermont lost 26-20 to Toulouse in the Top 14 final at Stade de France.
Toulouse, who last won the title in 2001, scored two tries through hooker William Servat and fullback Maxime Medard while captain Aurelien Rougerie replied with two tries for Clermont.
The result was heartbreaking for Clermont, who dominated the regular season before sliding to a record eighth final defeat. It was particularly disappointing for Smit, who has lost two Super Rugby finals and two Currie Cup finals with the Sharks.
“We are jinxed,” said Clermont No 8 Elvis Vermeulen. “We gave everything we had but once again we lost.”
Toulouse’s former France skipper Fabien Pelous said: “Clermont wanted to win but so did we because we wanted to end a seven-year title drought and forget our Heineken Cup final defeat to Munster.”
Former All Blacks scrumhalf Byron Kelleher was in tears at the end.
“It’s a great joy which I want to share with my Toulouse family,” he said.
70 Comments
29 Jun 2008, 10:08 am
Might as well used to coming second, Smittie!
29 Jun 2008, 10:39 am
word left out there Tackler? smh
29 Jun 2008, 10:50 am
Big Hit gees i think you are stalking ‘The Tackler’, anyway its the message thats counts isn’t it !!
29 Jun 2008, 10:53 am
Great atmosphere with 80 000 fans, great rugby with great players.
Dean Human destroyed Clermont scrum. Dean Human has become a super mighty prop. I hope John Smit will have a chat with PDV about his case.
For Toulouse Sowerby was good but nothing special……..Human was huge and he is the new Os Durandt.
For Clermont Joubert was average and Smit was on the bench and spent few minutes on the field…..enough to feel Human strengh at scrum time.
29 Jun 2008, 10:59 am
Well lets hope this is not a foretaste of expectation from Smit, better start getting into win mode again, losing can sometimes become habit forming or contagious, depending on how much fire still burns deep in the gut, otherwise best start with Bismark and have Smit and Daan Human as tight and loose heads either side.
29 Jun 2008, 11:01 am
#3 breakaway: tackler is quick to point out other people’s errors, just lowering his self-built pedastal a notch or two
29 Jun 2008, 11:25 am
Human who is the anchor of Toulouse should be reacalled, he is the strongest SA srummager and has so much experience and expertise to offer. Let´s play him 60´and then release the Beast when the game get looser…….Forget about Joubert and Sowerby….they are average.
29 Jun 2008, 11:35 am
As if Smit cares. Take your paycheck and go.
Stop this nonsense now and play for the team you care about.
29 Jun 2008, 11:36 am
#7 pepinillo:
Who is this Human who played for Boland against the Sharks then, not Daan?
29 Jun 2008, 11:37 am
Tackler, You seem unable to express yourself clearly, much like the Kiwi’s I know, you speak a kind of fanagalo from the South Seas.
You Wanker.
29 Jun 2008, 11:55 am
I cracked it! I finally found the sources of Keo writers threads. Or the modus operandi, if you will. Just read the following and you’ll see what I mean. Basically, they take a story from one of the other websites and colour it in here and there with some of their own words. Dave Morris writes for Planet Rugby. Is there no originality left in this world?
Posted in Springboks by keo
The absence of a third Springbok hooker for three Tests in New Zealand and Australia is a bigger surprise than BJ Botha’s exclusion among the props.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers and his selectors are covered in most areas except hooker in a squad that is top heavy among the loose-forwards and light in other areas.
To include Ryan Kankowski, Pierre Spies, Luke Watson and Joe Van Niekerk, who between the four of them will be playing for two places in the match 22, is an indulgence.
I don’t know how Kankowski could have been cleared to tour after again watching the tape of the tackle that knocked him cold against Italy. The bloke’s lights went out before his head hit the ground, yet he is a consideration for the opening Test against the All Blacks in less than a fortnight. If ever a conservative view was needed on a player it is Kankowski, who is young, a rare talent and will be influential to the Springboks in the next four years. To rush him back after such a sickening blow is confusing.
It would have been logical to let him rest in South Africa for the next three weeks and then join the squad in Perth for the Australian one-off Test.
Assuming he does not figure in selection against the All Blacks then it is one of Spies, Van Niekerk or Watson to start, one to make the bench and one to watch from the stands.
When you consider the versatility of all three you’d back Van Niekerk’s experience of 47 Tests for the starting position at No 8. It is his best position and Spies, for all his potential, is more devastating when introduced against tired legs than when asked to make the opposition’s legs tired.
Schalk Burger, with no Richie McCaw to combat, should give the Boks a huge advantage at the breakdown and if Van Niekerk and Spies are preferred over Watson the Boks will also maintain their strength of have the option of five lineout jumpers.
Danie Rossouw’s absence will also be felt because he covers lock and loose-forward and New Zealand have always been suspect against a big No 8. I’d have gone for Rossouw at No 8 in New Zealand conditions and left Watson and Kankowski at home, the former an option against Australia and the latter a consideration for the home Tests against New Zealand and Australia.
Rossouw is available but, like another of the 2007 World Cup squad in BJ Botha, he is momentarily out of favour.
The non selection of a third hooker specialist is the talking point in this squad. What happens if captain John Smit or back up hooker Bismarck du Plessis get crocked in the last run of the week or wake up on the Saturday morning with an ailment that rules them out of the match? It should be a rule in a 28 man squad to New Zealand and Australia that there has to be three scrumhalves and three hookers.
JP Pietersen’s recall is not surprising as he is the best of the right wingers in the country. Clearly the Bok coaches wanted to get his hunger back during the incoming June Tests by making him sweat among the non playing reserves. But with the versatility of Conrad Janjtes, Percy Montgomery, Jean de Villiers, Adi Jacobs, Frans Steyn and Ruan Pienaar why then select Odwa Ndungane or any additional wing for that matter?
Why not another specialist outside centre?
The run-on XV will be strong, but the squad lacks balance and let’s hope Smit and Du Plessis stay off the onion soup in New Zealand because it is known to have given a few guys the runs on the morning of the match.
It would be catastrophic if the Boks stuff up their best chance of a win against the All Blacks in New Zealand for a decade because they’re short a back up hooker and outside centre.
Posted in Springboks by Ryan
How Peter de Villiers can justify JP Pietersen and Odwa Ndungane’s inclusion in the Springbok Tri-Nations squad ahead of Tonderai Chavhanga is perplexing.
There were other notable exclusions when the squad was announced yesterday, with BJ Botha heading that list. But it was JP Pietersen’s recall that was most surprising.
I lauded De Villiers and his support team for their management of Pietersen, who was excluded from the Incoming Tours squad and placed on a programme designed to improve his conditioning. But I find it unbelievable that he could have reached the necessary levels of conditioning in four weeks, given how far off the pace the Springbok coaching staff said he was.
Pietersen looked sluggish and frankly disinterested in the Sharks’ Absa Currie Cup opener against Western Province on Friday evening. The one clear opportunity he had he botched, coughing up the pill in a manner that reminded one of a sixth team player at an unfashionable rugby school, not a World Cup winning winger.
If his conditioning is poor, his confidence has hit rock bottom. The Springbok selectors would have been better advised to give him game time at the Sharks, where he could attempt to heal the mental scars of a diabolical 2008 season, and rediscover the form that made him one of the most talked about players last year.
A two Test series against the All Blacks is a massive assignment and not one that should be tackled with a wing on the verge of cognitive collapse.
Peter de Villiers says he dropped Chavhanga because he seemed to have lost confidence. Did Pietersen gain any in his time out? His performance against Western Province seems to suggest not.
If Pietersen carries tackle bags, it means Ndungane will play his first tour match against New Zealand in New Zealand with all of one cap, against a c-grade Italy, to his name. Graham Henry is salivating at the prospect. Ndungane was solid without being outstanding throughout the Super 14 and possesses neither the speed nor tactical acumen to pose a serious threat to the All Blacks.
How has Chavhanga has fallen out of favour so rapidly? He was poor against Wales in the second Test but hardly warranted the wave of criticism that followed. In four Tests he’s been outstanding in one (Uruguay), solid in two (New Zealand and Wales) and dreadful in the other (Wales). Hardly cause for the knee-jerk reaction the selectors have shown in axing him, and I can recall many a current Springbok being given an extended run despite poor starts to their Test careers.
Chavhanga has his limitations, not least of all the ability to kick out of hand in acting as a second fullback. His skill under the high ball and defence came into question in the second Test against Wales, but he was solid in these facet of play in the Super 14. Both Pietersen and Ndungane have these limitations.
He does, however, possess attributes that neither Pietersen or Ndungane have at present – devastating speed, good anticipation and positional play and a game-breaking ability.
De Villiers and the South African rugby fraternity at large will only see his value when Ndungane is chased down by an inside back or when Pietersen delivers yet another sub-standard performance.
By Ryan Vrede
The original Planet Rugby article
An out-of-form winger, two inexperienced props, a concussed number eight, a recovering flanker and one specialist number thirteen – we present you coach Peter de Villiers’ Springbok touring squad for the upcoming Tri-Nations.
Minus three dropped players, the squad is identical to the one announced by De Villiers and his fellow selectors that tackled Wales and Italy over a three-week period in June – but this is where the problem lies.
At first glance, it looks like the same bunch of world champs that swept aside Wales in Bloemfontein, got a fright in Pretoria and struggled past an under-strength Italy outfit in Cape Town.
But before you book an appointment with your optometrist, have a look at the 28-man squad again and see if you can spot anything that could be of a concern for the South Africans preparing to depart Down Under.
There is one, and it should be a big one. While Australian coach Robbie Deans has been sticking with the same combinations in the buildup to the new season, almost 30 players were used in the three matches by De Villiers, who has arguably not yet fielded his strongest team in one match.
The recent games did achieve the objective of showcasing the depth available, however only time will tell whether he has erred by not playing key combinations together more often.
De Villiers, who had admitted that he did not know which of his three fly-halves to leave behind, will have all three of them (Peter Grant, Butch James, Francois Steyn) in Australasia.
There are also three scrum-halves (Bolla Conradie, Ricky Januarie, Ruan Pienaar), two full-backs (Conrad Jantjes and Percy Montgomery), two centres (Jean de Villiers and Adrian Jacobs) and three wingers (Bryan Habana, Odwa Ndungane and JP Pietersen).
In the Springboks’ three Tests played so far this year, a different half-back combination has been used in each.
The calls for consistency appear to be muffled unless De Villiers is anticipating a string of injuries by bringing along a back-up half-back duo to accommodate those named on the bench. A bit over the top, don’t you think?
Before I hear the argument that Steyn – and perhaps Pienaar too – is a utility back, the debate was ended – but not solved – over the weekend when the former got his wish and played in the number ten jumper against Italy.
To make an assessment on Steyn after the Test against Italy is a futile exercise. He drifted between the sublime and decidedly ordinary – nothing new there – and this was expected from a player who has never been given an extended run in one position at any stage of his career, outside of the 2007 World Cup.
The same can be said about Pienaar and De Villiers’ public opinion that he belongs in the number nine jersey – and not fly-half or full-back where he had occasionally played during the Jake White era. Should Pienaar, who is struggling a wee bit for form, play anywhere else, the Bok coach will ruin the young talent’s playing future.
That Pienaar is touring at all is partly due to the absence of Fourie du Preez who is set to make a return to the Bok mix on the home leg of the Tri-Nations.
As for Steyn, there’s no denying his talents, and the only way to a fair and accurate judgement on the 21-year-old at fly-half is if he is given an extended run against world-class opposition.
But with James all set to call the shots at pivot (and rightly so), De Villiers will be best off using Steyn as a potential solution to the midfield conundrum as he excelled at inside centre alongside his former Sharks team-mate at the World Cup.
Especially considering that six blokes will be pushing for the four available half-back spots in the matchday 22, while only two players are needed by De Villiers to cover the number twelve and thirteen jerseys respectively – an injury to either will be a massive blow.
De Villiers’ love affair with Jacobs keeps Gcobani Bobo out of the touring squad all together, and it’s fair to say that the latter probably had it coming following a less than impressive showing against the Azzurri.
That Jacobs finds himself in the green and gold jersey after several years of absence still boggles the mind – even the man himself admitted to being surprised at his Bok rebirth.
While he is often lauded for his spontaneity on attack, his defensive capabilities have often been called into question and there are those who feel (this writer included) that Jacobs goes missing in action during crunch games.
Jacobs got a 60 per cent pass park in his test against Wales, but an improved performance will be needed against New Zealand and Australia. If the Sharks centre fails to bite, it could prove costly. He was above average in the Super 14 up until the semi-final where he crumbled under pressure, and didn’t shine that much on tour where he was mainly used as an impact player – a position De Villiers should be using him in if nothing at all.
The problem for the Boks is that a player like Jacobs might have been able to perform against the weakened Welsh, but has left the new coach going into the much tougher Tri-Nations fixtures with a false impression of what the player can do.
The answer in the midfield is Steyn and Jean De Villiers with the latter at thirteen where he has in fact been performing – only without the number thirteen on his back – very effectively in certain field positions in both the Super 14 and in the Test against Italy.
At wing, JP Pietersen is a somewhat surprise inclusion to say the least.
The World Cup star has suffered a massive dip in form, confidence and everything else that goes with carrying a rugby ball. He was excluded from De Villiers’ training and matchday squads and placed on a programme designed to improve his conditioning.
How he could have reached the necessary levels of conditioning in four weeks, given how far off the pace the Springbok coaching staff said he was, is unbelievable.
The Springbok selectors would have been better advised to give him more game time in the Currie Cup with the Sharks where he played last week. Even then his performance was a forgettable one. But it’s a start where he could attempt to heal the mental scars of a diabolical 2008 season, and rediscover the form that made him one of the most talked-about players last year.
A two-Test series against the All Blacks is a massive assignment and not one that should be tackled with a wing on the verge of cognitive collapse.
Pietersen aside, how De Villiers can justify Odwa Ndungane’s inclusion in the Springbok Tri-Nations squad ahead of Tonderai Chavhanga is perplexing.
If Pietersen carries tackle bags, it means Ndungane will play his first tour match against New Zealand in New Zealand with all of one cap, against a c-grade Italy, to his name. Graham Henry must be salivating at the prospect.
Ndungane was solid without being outstanding throughout the Super 14 and possesses neither the speed nor tactical acumen to pose a serious threat to the might of New Zealand.
Chavhanga has his limitations, not least of all the ability to kick out of hand in acting as a second full-back. His skill under the high ball and defence came into question in the second Test against Wales, but he was solid in these facets of play in the Super 14. Both Pietersen and Ndungane also have these limitations.
He does, however, possess attributes that neither Pietersen or Ndungane have at present: devastating speed, good anticipation and positional play and a game-breaking ability.
The inclusion of Montgomery and Jantjes speaks for itself, however, I would start with the veteran full-back and bring on Jantjes when Monty starts running out of steam. Or, better yet, why not have them both in the starting line-up with Jantjes on the wing?
Moving on to the forwards, and the All Blacks will be keen to use their powerful scrum with the Springboks having a vulnerable look to their front row after axing experienced prop BJ Botha.
Botha, who has earned 17 Test caps and who was South Africa’s leading tighthead at last year’s World Cup before he was injured, is one of the shock omissions made to the pack.
“No, I’m not injured. I was simply not selected. I don’t know what the reason is,” was Botha’s explanation to the media. And quite frankly, we don’t know either.
CJ van der Linde and Brian Mujati are the tighthead props selected to tour with Gurthrö Steenkamp and Tendai “Beast” Mtawarira on the loosehead side.
While never quite regaining the form this year that made him one of the most feared scrummagers in 2007, Botha has plenty of experience, something that will be vital against the powerful scrumming unit of the All Blacks. If CJ van der Linde is injured early in the Tri-Nations, the Boks could be in trouble as De Villiers will be duty bound to play Mujati as his next option at number three.
Mujati and “The Beast” were both blooded around the tried and trusted front row forwards against Wales and Italy, and the experiments produced limited success.
The All Blacks, despite having lost powerhouse tighthead Carl Hayman to the northern hemisphere and being without first choice Tony Woodcock for most of their opening three Tests of 2008, dominated both Ireland and England in the scrums.
With the Tri-Nations seeing the return of the ELVs, scrums are set to be a key attacking weapon. If the All Blacks, as expected, can get an edge here the five-metre rule will allow their backs the space to build on their promising displays over the past three weeks.
At least Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield were re-united in the second row quickly enough after the Bloemfontein experiment with Andries Bekker, and the continuity in this area is one aspect where the Boks should have an edge on both New Zealand and Australia.
Big bruiser Danie Rossouw did not make it as a lock forward, and Bekker should have more caps added to his name as back-up to the Matfield/Botha show.
But the absence of a third Springbok hooker is a big surprise than Botha’s exclusion among the props.
The reason being that a third hooker is much like a spare wheel. You don’t need it until you break down, but then you can’t move anywhere until it arrives.
If captain John Smit or back-up hooker Bismarck du Plessis get crocked, De Villiers will be left sending an SOS to the already hard-done by Schalk Brits to board a dreadfully long flight, and expect the jet-lagged Stormers star to turn it on in what will only be his second game in green and gold.
That Du Plessis is the second-choice hooking option is, in my opinion anyway, a big middle finger to Brits’ talents. While Smit is Bok leader, he will never be displaced and has earned his jersey and respect by a country mile. Despite Du Plessis’ try-scoring heroics against Italy, I’m still yet to be convinced. He’s big and strong and can tackle a giant, but his line-out throwing is suspect and has a problem with ill discipline.
As far the back row is concerned, De Villiers has bitten off more than he can chew by opting for a whopping six loose forwards.
To include Ryan Kankowski, Pierre Spies, Luke Watson, Juan Smith, Schalk Burger and Joe Van Niekerk – all possible number eight options who between them will be playing for places in the matchday 22 – is an indulgence.
Sure, it gives the coach some nice options to tinker and play with, but it seems to be an overkill.
Kankowski makes the trip still nursing a sore head suffered against Italy last week in a collision that left him dazed and confused when he woke up in the team’s dressing room. To rush him back after such a sickening blow is confusing.
It would have been logical to let him rest in South Africa for the away leg and then, like Du Preez, join the squad in Cape Town for the home leg of the tournament.
Burger has also been included after only 20 minutes game time following a knee injury some eight weeks ago.
Watson will travel on his first Tri-Nations tour as the openside flank back-up. On the evidence of the home Tests, however, it is debatable that Watson is the next best number six to Burger. The former Stormers skipper started well against Wales, but his performances dropped off over the course of the three Tests.
Van Niekerk has come roaring back to life this season and I would have given him the nod ahead of Watson in terms of his experience, form and versatility.
So it’s clear that De Villiers has taken some calculated risks and there is no denying that the All Blacks and Wallabies, after losing out at the World Cup last year, will be hungry to make a point against the world champions.
But then again, it’s a gamble that could lead to South Africa recording their first victory on New Zealand soil in a decade – whether it pays off or not remains to be seen.
We think this is the best team, or could have been, to make it happen:
PR’s choice: 15 Percy Montgomery, 14 Conrad Jantjes, 13 Jean de Villiers, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Butch James, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 BJ Botha, 2 John Smit, 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Replacements: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Joe van Niekerk, 20 Bolla Conradie, 21 Peter Grant, 22 Tonderai Chavhanga.
De Villiers’ possible choice: 15 Conrad Jantjes, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Adi Jacobs, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Butch James, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 John Smit, 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Replacements: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Luke Watson, 20 Bolla Conradie, 21 Frans Steyn, 22 Percy Montgomery.
The South Africa squad:
Backs: Bolla Conradie, Jean de Villiers, Peter Grant, Butch James, Conrad Jantjes, Adrian Jacobs, Ricky Januarie, Bryan Habana, Percy Montgomery, Odwa Ndungane, JP Pietersen, Ruan Pienaar, Francois Steyn.
Forwards: Andries Bekker, Bakkies Botha, Schalk Burger, Bismarck du Plessis, Ryan Kankowski, Tendai Mtawarira, Brian Mujati, Victor Matfield, Pierre Spies, Juan Smith, John Smit (c), Gurthrö Steenkamp, CJ van der Linde, Joe van Niekerk, Luke Watson.
What are your thoughts on the Boks’ Tri-Nations squad?
By Dave Morris
29 Jun 2008, 11:57 am
So they take one article like this one and divided it into 2-3 threads and sign thier name at the bottom. Without same!
29 Jun 2008, 12:00 pm
Without shame, sorry. Did they make Keo SA’s sportswriter of the yr?
29 Jun 2008, 12:22 pm
Keo, do the honorable thing and give back the award!
29 Jun 2008, 13:25 pm
the tackler……he’s got the one that counts – the all blacks haven’t had a sniff for 21 years now!oh yeah, they are #2 in the world you f*cken winner!
29 Jun 2008, 13:28 pm
#14 BokiNZ: Why don’t you go blog on planet rugby then…run along
29 Jun 2008, 14:03 pm
#11 BokiNZ: What ****. Both writers had the same angle, but there’s certainly no plagarism here.
29 Jun 2008, 14:06 pm
#11 BokiNZ: You haven’t cracked anything champion, but perhaps you are on crack? Just throwing that out there. Now go to the naughty corner pal.
29 Jun 2008, 14:10 pm
Mmm, so then BokiNZ …
If you are a writer and read a story for background info
THEN
go and write an original piece which just ‘happens’ to sound similar
THEN
you are ‘copying’
FFS (4foxsake)
[Sudden thought]
Do you even know what a writer does for a living?
29 Jun 2008, 14:57 pm
Am slightly off topic here but what do u guys think of Dan Carter’s decision to play for Perpignan (sp)???
Wouldn’t Toulouse have made better rugby sense . They have won the top 14 and Heineken cup a couple of times .Besides Byron Kelleher is the scrum half . That would have made things easier for him.
29 Jun 2008, 14:57 pm
So nobody remember Daan Human born in 1976, former free state prop, then played 2 seasons for the stormers? 187cm and 110kgs of pure muscle.
He was selected 4 times with the Boks but then moved to France in 2005…….now he is at the top of his career and probably one of the most feared prop in Europe. He is the stongest possilble prop the Bok can have.
29 Jun 2008, 15:07 pm
Human looks really good, just a pity that he isn’t a Tighthead.
29 Jun 2008, 15:08 pm
#20 gakaka: Toulouse have already got great 10s
29 Jun 2008, 15:19 pm
stormers should sign human.
29 Jun 2008, 15:23 pm
i just watched the bulls stormers game and damn no doubt it , the officials cheated the bulls big time
29 Jun 2008, 15:24 pm
post 23 big hit . stand to be corrected but toulouse are using jean – bapitiste ( who is actually a scrum half ) as a fly half the other fly half they have is gaffie do toit ( who is at best average at worst useless ) . Michalak will be going back to toulouse next year but to compare him toi carter is perhaps pushing it .
29 Jun 2008, 15:28 pm
#26 gakaka: David Skrela the France 10 has also signed from toulouse from Stade Francais, Ellisalde has also done very well at 10, plus as you say, Michalak who is a bit of a hero there
29 Jun 2008, 15:33 pm
SA have good prospects at loose head with Van der Merwe, Steenkamp, Beast and Wium Du preez…….but at 32 Human is at his peak and after Durandt retirement his expertise should be used to coach those young guns…
29 Jun 2008, 15:33 pm
# TheTackler: Dig your coments Tackles, haha. 4 more years boy, 4 more years!!! hahha.
29 Jun 2008, 15:36 pm
#29 umbhoxoswede:
howzit
I have a good feeling about saturday.I think the boks are gonna take them.
29 Jun 2008, 15:38 pm
#29 umbhoxoswede:
stop mocking the poor okes period of abstinence between sexual intercourse,with a female…
29 Jun 2008, 16:05 pm
Hard luck John!!! Forever indebted to you for leading us to the world cup!!! LOVE YOU!
29 Jun 2008, 16:06 pm
Go Bokke! We know we can do it. We have just as many disadvantages as NZ however! Eg, ELV’s new to some of the Bokke, Game plan new, Combinations un set, new coach, away from home, jet-lag captain ETC…… … Actually, on ‘paper’ we have no reason to expect we can win. Yet I must say I have a very good feeling about these next two tests. Very good. Go Bokke!!!
29 Jun 2008, 16:14 pm
1 TheTackler
Illiterate git.
Not much rugby knowledge either – this could be caused by having too much *** without involving other people….?? just guessing..
29 Jun 2008, 16:20 pm
#17 Simon: #18 Ryan: Now now guys. Play nice. I would do my best to defend the point that there is no plagirism if I were you too but to be honest guys this smacks of cheating.
There are sentences that are copied verbatim, and although it’s possible that two writers can have the same angle I find it very unlikely that both would use the sentence
“Chavhanga has his limitations, not least of all the ability to kick out of hand in acting as a second full-back. His skill under the high ball and defence came into question in the second Test against Wales, but he was solid in these facets of play in the Super 14. Both Pietersen and Ndungane also have these limitations”
And this with the same bad sentence construction. How the hell do you explain that Ryan? I’ve got no issue with using other bloke’s material, but you’ve got to give them some credit. And here I was thinking you guys are good writers. Very dissapointing.
29 Jun 2008, 16:20 pm
post 27 big hit . Thanks big hit . i didn’t know Skrela was moving to Toulouse . then it makes sense that Dan Carter didn’t go there . I love the way Toulouse play though.
29 Jun 2008, 16:23 pm
#35 natalfin: You guys know what happenned to Darryl Bisto-Gravy hey? Watch it – the sentence described by natalfin is pure plagiarism. The muppets want answers please.
29 Jun 2008, 16:28 pm
#37 zeitgeist: Agreed. There is something very fishy here.
29 Jun 2008, 16:31 pm
Post 35 ,natalfin . I find some articles on this site not well thought and not very factual and the good ones smack of plagarism . Guess this site is being run on a part time basis .
So agree with you this is dissapointing .Keo has to take action ….if he is not part of the cheating himself .
I am always surprised by teh lack of factual knowledge our so call commenters compared with thier counter parts from australasia.
Just compare the naas commentary versus rod keifer …..
29 Jun 2008, 16:38 pm
Sure thing. But it’s really about more than quality if you ask me. We have a major problem on our hands when the Journo of the year’s website is giving journalism ethics the middle finger.
These okes need to either a) be fired or b) fined and sent to propper journo classes so that they don’t screw with the readers. In fact, it’s a bloody fraud really. How the hell can you steal someone else’s material and pass it off as your own. Flippen disgusting.
29 Jun 2008, 16:40 pm
getting way too worked up about this for a Sunday. See you okes later.
KEO PLEASE SORT THIS **** OUT AND EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. IMAGINE THE SAME HAPPENS WITH PERCY’S BOOK! BRU YOU’VE GOT TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND STRAIGHTEN IT OUT ASAP!
29 Jun 2008, 16:40 pm
Yippee another conspiracy on the cards, third forces well and truly in operation, writers on the take, plagiarism exposed, we got a scoop here lads, any more band wagoners about?
Seems our lad in NZ, Bokinz, might have strayed upon a faulty fault line beneath the cracks of respectability.
Aah no couldn’t be, its only a rugby blog site after all.
29 Jun 2008, 16:55 pm
.Skposkiet 42
yes this is rugby blog however the reason we come here is that the writers profess to be journalist and they write for magazines as well . They host the site becoz they have credibility as writers . That’s why we are on the blog . They also sell advertising space so this a business.
So when this turns out to be a fraud then we have reason to protest . Action must be taken on this issue .
29 Jun 2008, 16:58 pm
So call in the Klu Klux Klan, this thing has GOT TO BE STOPPED, where are the burning stakes and kitchen knives?
29 Jun 2008, 17:04 pm
#44 skopskiet: Dude, belittle it all you like point is: this is blatant copyright violation. full stop. apart from misleading the readers as to the authenticity of the product they are also using someone else’s intelectual property to make money, and this opens the site and Keo himself to some nastly IP-law suits.
if I was the author of the article that has been stolen I’d immediatly file a dammages suit against keo & co. Chances are he’d walk out with some dough. I don’t know where the planet rugby is registred, but copyright voilation can carry a hefty fine and even jail time. It’s akin to selling grey goods on the black market (DVD’s CD’s ect) Trust me these boys are is ****. They need to take care of this constructively and not try to swipe it under the carpet.
29 Jun 2008, 17:15 pm
Well seems we now have not only the Klu Klux Klan on the case even Interpol and Inspector Clouseau might needs be brought in to oust the closet freebie plagiarists from their hidy holes.
Better run and duck for cover laddies, the copy write cops seems are after your collective blood by the sounds of things.
29 Jun 2008, 18:32 pm
#17 Simon:
#18 Ryan:
Just be honest guys. Its blatant plagiarism. What makes it suspect is the mere fact that you have 3 threads covering the PR article and in all 3 you have prts thats exactly the same. Word for word! And its not even qouting what a anybody has said! You, Ryan covered the winger issue in Morris’ article, Keo tackled the loosie selections and someone else, I’m guessing Simon, handled BJ’s omission. Quite frankly I think its disgusting! You are stealing! Nothing but a common thief! I might be going over the top right now but its only because I expected better- on the morality side of things! If its not plagiarism, then please explain the similar passages in the threads.
29 Jun 2008, 18:39 pm
#19 Haapis: Did you even take the effort to read the threads in question? Thought so, cause if you did, you would be singing a different tune.
29 Jun 2008, 19:02 pm
KEO and his Cronies have obviously run out of news. All we get is OPINION articles that discuss the news they read on other blogs. So if it is news you want, do not hold your breath here.
I have also noticed an appalling drop in standards of literacy and rugby knowledge. Many articles are heavily cliched, plagiarized and boring. Come on boys, up your game, this used to be a far better site.
It could be that the access KEO had to news sources when he was involved with the Boks has gone away.
WOULD YOU TRUST KEO?
29 Jun 2008, 19:08 pm
#48 BokiNZ: I think you have made your point. The plagiarism is clear for anyone to see. The responses from Simon and Ryan are terribly lame, as one could expect from cheap sideshows. It is up to Keo now to do the honorable thing and respond to the allegations.
Keo?
29 Jun 2008, 19:09 pm
Bokinnz. You are exactly right.
Have you noticed how KEO in his old age has become obsessed with the make up of loose trio’s regarding any article he writes. Any game he writes about now leans towards this area of the game.
I think the Watson saga has prompted this new concern in rugby circles. BOORING.
These mug shots at the bottom of this page of KEO’s politburo should be adjusted, and all should be presented in the Zimbabwean Military Attire in current use.
29 Jun 2008, 19:10 pm
Simon and Ryan.
How many people do you think believe you?
29 Jun 2008, 19:39 pm
***** what kinda witch hunt you guys baying for journalists blood here, is this THAT much of a journalistic who ha you got your overly concerned blood hound teeth into, a couple similarly worded sentences get you into this much of a frenzy, over what precisely?
29 Jun 2008, 20:00 pm
Oh dear, now skopskiet is getting into a lather again.
In defence of Ryan et al I’d like to point out that it has always been the policy of this blog to gather news by rehashing articles written by real journalists. Sources for these articles include, but are not limited to, Planet-Rugby.com, Rugby Heaven (Oz and NZ versions) and superrugby dot co.za. In short, this is nothing new. As you were.
29 Jun 2008, 20:04 pm
The customer is always right.
29 Jun 2008, 20:50 pm
Keo.co.za © Copyleft – all rights reversed.
29 Jun 2008, 21:33 pm
Hey guys if you dont like the site and some of the threads, you dont have to suport it or even login, and you have every right to go to any other web site.
For me I dont care where they find their information. The threads are posted to generate a good debate between bloggers.
29 Jun 2008, 21:36 pm
#9 Pietman: that was andries human – the machine
hey there pete how’s the kids?
29 Jun 2008, 21:39 pm
#49 voshd: funny i don’t recall seeing you around since when?
29 Jun 2008, 22:49 pm
Have not always posted rugby-only. Years now.
29 Jun 2008, 23:11 pm
but seriously i agree with you, with the exception of keo…the rest of the jornalists usually provide nothing more than a source to generate a blog thread which more often than not is thoroughly entertaining!
i only say this as often the articles seem rushed and incomplete while lacking substance and genuine insight in comparison to articles on other sites (already mentioned). Of course there are the exceptions, and there is a noticeable difference between keo and the other journalists pieces…unless it is of course King Keo reigning over the South African rugby Press and using “Mugabe-like” tactics to subdue his minions
However it does seem he is fighting a lone battle for this website…
Take it as an unsult, and up your game!
29 Jun 2008, 23:12 pm
you see…copy and paste
29 Jun 2008, 23:40 pm
#57 CoachPete: C’mon coach, you know I like the site. In fact I like it a lot but that’s not because of the threads. More because of debate, heated at times, that flows from it. I don’t mind either where they get their stories from but and that’s a big BUTT, I do care if they make out like it is their own. If they give recognition to the actual author, no problem. Let’s see if they learned their lesson.
30 Jun 2008, 02:01 am
All i saw from the heading was no silverware and i thought it was about all English sports.But i then thought if it said no silverware/gold then it would be about the English.
Even our slack *** cricket team can win a one day series in England,phhht.
30 Jun 2008, 02:35 am
Former All Blacks scrumhalf Byron Kelleher was in tears at the end.
“It’s a great joy which I want to share with my Toulouse family,” he said
WTF?
typical emotional french ****..and he’s a choker
30 Jun 2008, 02:55 am
#65 greatest13gerber:
Maybe he loves the game and the cash he gets from it.Good on him.Hes crying at the game but out you and him who would be smiling all the way to the bank
30 Jun 2008, 07:56 am
What a stunning game, what stunning men.
30 Jun 2008, 08:15 am
Are the peasants revolting?
30 Jun 2008, 08:23 am
#68 Dawn: Very.
30 Jun 2008, 09:45 am
#69 katman:
Did you read the comments?
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