Jones slams ELVs
28 Aug 2008
Eddie Jones has likened the ELVs to T20 cricket, stating the new rules are a ploy by Australian rugby to cheapen the game.
Jones had earlier remarked that the laws had been “picked out of a cornflakes packet,” and yesterday speaking at the launch of the English Premiership, he further slammed the ELVs.
“The important thing is to improve rugby. To judge the ELVs you have to ask ‘have they made the game better?’. Better does not necessarily mean more entertaining. If you want entertainment, you watch Twenty20 cricket. We don’t want rugby to be Twenty20 cricket.
“That has to be the judgment line. These changes have been made with a view to entertainment, not to improving rugby,” said the director of rugby at Saracens.
Jones noted that Australia, who were the fore-runners for proposing the laws, had different intentions than other countries.
“The pressure on rugby in Australia is to win fans. They’re competing directly against Aussie rules, rugby league and football. All three are simple motion games where the ball is always in play. To compete the Super 14 has become a quick-tap motion game. The ball is in play a lot but that doesn’t create a better game, it creates entertainment – to the detriment of rugby,” he said.
He intimated that different versions of rugby could be the way to go in future to suit different audiences.
“Now there’s Test match cricket and Twenty20 cricket but we need to keep Test match rugby. Around the world most people want to watch Test rugby. There are pockets around the world who want to see Twenty20 cricket so let’s make Twenty12 rugby.
“We could have 12 players, 20 minutes each way with no scrums or line-outs. As the game becomes more professional another form of the game could develop. Sevens hasn’t been a success as entertainment. It might do well in Hong Kong and Wellington, but not around the world. You might find another form of the game springs up eventually,” he said.
Jones cited the standard of the World Cup last year – which was played under the old rules – and how popular this made the game.
“Just have a look at what the World Cup has done in Europe. Rugby in France is so big now – they had four club games with 80,000 crowds last season. Rugby in France is going through the roof because the World Cup was so successful,” he said.
“Watch Bath against Wasps in January – it was one of the best games I’ve ever seen. There were unbelievable skills levels on show. It had everything. If a game is played well and refereed well then there is nothing wrong with it. If you play the game well then it becomes a spectacle.
“If you try to make it a spectacle first and foremost, then you get a simplistic version.”
115 Comments
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28 Aug 2008, 11:03 am
#47 Timbo: This is our problem as saffas. We are too impatient which is understandable coz we like to win. The tests against Wales. Italy etc dont really count so really we’ve played 5 tests under the ELV’s. It’s a reality that SA teams take longer to adapt. Look how long it took the mighty BULLS to finally adapt, they only did at the end of the season…and thats a team boasting FDP, Habs, Spies etc. This was coz their whole foundation was built on forward dominance, much the same as our Boks. A fool would revert back to territory based play now..not necessarily coz it doesn’t work, but keeping in mind all our best kickers are woefully out of form. Lets get real bloggers, if we sort out our breakdown woes that’ll be 95% of the problem fixed…everything else is coming right. Our scrum has improved exponentially to the extent that we dominated the all blacks, our centres are looking dangerous and piercing, no one could prevent JP and habs being injured so that was just bad luck, and Butch and Percy are out of form with the boot. Fine tune our handling skills and sort out the breakdown and we look the far more dangerous team than NZ or aus.
28 Aug 2008, 11:04 am
#50 Zulushark: EJ’s job was to fine tune…PDV has had to do a little more with the advent of the new laws. Not the same thing boet.
28 Aug 2008, 11:07 am
Insofar as Snor is concerned, I really do feel very sorry for the guy – he is probably trying his best. Sadly his out of his league at international level, and for this I say shame on SARU.
Making an AA appointment is okay, but give the guy the expertise around him. Sure, Snor chose Muir and Gold, but what about a group of technical advisors such as Ian Mac and a few other good men so that this new game plan good have been implimented correctly at this level.
Snor still would’ve gotten the credit, AA appointment wouldve “worked” and the polictical wannabes would be happy and the game may have attracted a few more non-white players and supportors.
Zero thought process really – but then again, did we think that the right thing would’ve happened anyway???
28 Aug 2008, 11:08 am
#52 flanka:
The bulk od snors team has plaed the ELV as long as all the other players from aus and nz. Snor also only had to fine tune, but no, he decided on a complete overhaul.there’s a big difference between the two. It’s not just Vic and Butch that playing ****, it’s the whole bunch, including all those that plaued ELV in the S14 with the aussies and AB
28 Aug 2008, 11:10 am
#53 SyKoPlaya: This is SARU were talking about. They have proven beyond doubt that there is no such thing as a logical thought process.
28 Aug 2008, 11:11 am
#51 flanka: I don’t agree with your reasoning about the mighty Bulls with their star players.
Let me remind you that they are coached by Ludicrus – ‘nuf said about that.
Their season was “saved” by the outside consultancy services by Eddie Jones. After ED spent about 7/10 days with the Bulls, did they finally start to get on track.
This just proves my point that with this sort of outside assistance, Snor might actually achieve something worthwhile.
I say again – Shame on you SARU – you set him up to fail …
28 Aug 2008, 11:11 am
#51 flanka:
There’s a lot more to sort out than just the breakdowns. In a structred match every players knows exactly his function, particularly on defence. He does’nt have to worry about who is covering his left shoulder or who is covering the flyhalf channel because these are the structures put in place. The problem with snot telling the guys to play with freedom is that your mate on your left shoulder may no longer be there, he may be somewhere else on the field “expressing himself”, this creates uncertainty and hesitation, only for a second though, but at test level it’s enough.
28 Aug 2008, 11:13 am
#55 Rum And Maple: I beg to differ Sir – the logical thought processes that go on there all evolve around how to stay on the PC so as to make obscene amounts of cash and untold number of freebies.
28 Aug 2008, 11:16 am
#57 Zulushark:
I agree. The guys dont even know who is supposed to clean out the rucks because they are too busy hanging around waiting for an oppurtunity to express themselves. That our main problem with the breakdown.
Normally you have a set move and you know exactly who is gonna clean out the rucks so you can get quick ball.
28 Aug 2008, 11:17 am
#58 SyKoPlaya:
Spot on, they are a bunch on insiduos, self serving leaches
28 Aug 2008, 11:18 am
#56 SyKoPlaya: Here we go again praising Jones the mercenary….I call to ALL Bulls fans out there….do you all think your team started to improve coz of Eddie “A-Team” Jones?? They improved coz they had an attitude change and accepted that changes were necessary in order for them to remain a force. How could they ever have expected to defend their title with FDP and Habs calling the ELV’s rugby league and publicly blasting them. Their heads weren’t in the right place. How similar is the Bulls season to the Boks….the booeing, crowds boycotting the games, FDP telling Loftus they were around the corner from getting it right…then the magic towards the end of the season. 40% of it is attitude.
28 Aug 2008, 11:18 am
#58 SyKoPlaya: Yes, but is called SARU nad not SAGU (South African Gravy-Train Union).
28 Aug 2008, 11:19 am
#59 Sonito:
An another thing, with the ELV there is a lot more tactical kicking coming into play. Under these circumstance we need a traditional/specialist 8thman. A player who roves from touchline to touchline, linking with the backs on attack and covering the same guys on defense. Spies is a great player but he does’nt fit this role.
28 Aug 2008, 11:19 am
#60 Zulushark: Once we can start securing our own ball it’ll be different. How many times have we been 5m out from the chalk only to have a turnover effected coz of our breakdown ineptitude?
28 Aug 2008, 11:20 am
#60 Zulushark: Wouldn’t it be nice if the PC was filled guys like Morne du Plessis that actually cared about the well being of the game at all of it’s levels.
Unfortunately – once bitten, twice shy …
28 Aug 2008, 11:21 am
I HATE the ELV’s with a passion. I go to the Sharks matches at Kings Park and this headless chicken stuff has become absolutely mind numbing. For the first time I find myself not wanting to go and watch. SANZAR / IRB here’s a clue – STOP WITH THE ELV’s ALREADY!!!!
You’re ruining the game, and I’m seriously considering whether I’ll be renewing my season tickets. Bring back the old rules, and bring back rucking! It’s not flipping tiddly-winks or Tellytubby wrestling matches, its rugby.
28 Aug 2008, 11:23 am
#61 flanka:
flanka, you got the wrong end of the stick. All we are saying is that EJ did make a difference to our backline at the worldcup. He might be a pratt but he knows rugby. Remember his wallabie team lost the WC final in 2003 in the dying minutes to a jonny wilkenson dropgoal. This oke knows his stuff
28 Aug 2008, 11:23 am
#61 flanka: I wasn’t so much as praising EJ, but rather highlighting the fact that a team coach doesn’t know everything and to bring in someone else to assist for a time is a good thing.
28 Aug 2008, 11:25 am
#66 ZoomZoom: I agree – see my earlier post #29.
Bring back the good old days I say.
28 Aug 2008, 11:27 am
#64 flanka:
Turning the ball over with 5m to go has only become a problem in the last 5 tests and I don’t believe it’s because we are not competeing at the breakdown. If there is one position on the field where we normally get the number right it’s here 5m from the goal line. The turnovers at this mpoint is from lack of patience and not going through more phses to suck in the defenders. In 5 test matches we have’net gone through nore that 5 phases once ! The impateince of our players and the need to “express themselves ” at the goal line is costing us tries
28 Aug 2008, 11:27 am
#63 Zulushark: I think that Spies should go to the blindside (#7) or back to wing – our #8 should be Kanko or Big Joe.
28 Aug 2008, 11:29 am
#65 SyKoPlaya:
I tell you, there are plenty of x players wanting to get involved. We as the public can make a difference though. It starts at club level. Become a club member, vote in the roight person as club president and send him moff the provinvial agm with a set mandate. Lobby to get onto the provincial committee and then push for higher things…This is how it starts and we should starting putting the pressure on
28 Aug 2008, 11:31 am
#71 SyKoPlaya:
I have ofetn posted here, mostly tongue in cheek, that Spies should move back into the backline. I for one would’nt have a problem if he was choosen at wing or outside centre. ASnd you are correct, the two best 8thmen are kanko and Joe…it’s a tough choice though
28 Aug 2008, 11:33 am
Am I correct in saying that the ELV’s, although demanding fitter, faster forwards, don’t demand a 15 player backline? Well, that’s apparently what PdV wants, and the 2 aren’t working together so well. That is our major problem. Not the ELV’s as such, but the coach’s interpretation of how they should be played.
28 Aug 2008, 11:33 am
Guys I’m more than happy for outsiders to come in and help….you might be mis-understandingme. I just don’t think Eddie Jones is as good a coach as many of you are painting him out to be. Why would a country as desperate as Australia not want him…why would a team as **** as the Reds fire him??!!
28 Aug 2008, 11:35 am
#72 Zulushark: Too true – on another thread I asked how many of all the “experts” that post on this site are involved in coaching/administration/ect at their local schools/clubs to assist with the game.
Still no responses yet ….
28 Aug 2008, 11:35 am
#67 Zulushark: he got there with Rod McQueens forwards, and when it was his turn to build a tight 5 he was exposed badly.
28 Aug 2008, 11:36 am
#70 Zulushark: This I agree with…our patience has been found wanting in building phases…this is a confidence thing
28 Aug 2008, 11:36 am
#75 flanka: So you thinh that EJ is **** – I’m also a cr@p coach.
BTW, where can I pick up my RWC gold and silver medals and my S14 trophy???
28 Aug 2008, 11:38 am
#75 flanka:
they don’t want him cos he does’nt tow the line. He speaks his mind and tells the admin they are stuffing up…pretty much like jake did with our very own PC
28 Aug 2008, 11:38 am
lets toitoi
28 Aug 2008, 11:39 am
#78 flanka:
He may have, I don’t have the exact facts but at least he managed to keep them together and moving forward, unlike some other coach I know……
28 Aug 2008, 11:40 am
#78 flanka:
Aaaaahhhh common ground at last !!
28 Aug 2008, 11:44 am
#76 SyKoPlaya: We don’t have to be experts to comment on anything related to rugby son. We are supporters and we pay money so we have the right to make any comment on anything.
Yes we are the arm chair experts of rugby, so we can say anything and believe it to be true too kid.
28 Aug 2008, 11:45 am
#67 Zulushark: I agree. E. Jones knows his rugby. He also had a S14 cup and took the Wallabies to the WC final in 2003. When he took over at the Reds there were no really good players to work with. So cant rate him on that. He had a great team in the Brumbies and they won most of their games with him.
28 Aug 2008, 11:46 am
#79 SyKoPlaya: The Bus Driver for the Boks also got a Gold medal. And i’ve said before Silver means ****. Sharks were silver medalists but no-one celebrated **** Muir. And that Super title was won back when dinosaurs roamed the streets…a Brumbie team that stands as 1 of the greatest Super teams of all time. By the time EJ came they were already a legendary team…it was downhill from there, as it always is after eddie takes over the reigns of a team
28 Aug 2008, 11:49 am
#85 Puma: Nonsense regarding the Reds…they were so much more dangerous this year and very nearly beat the Crusaders at suncorp…I was there…I forget the name of the coach..David something…just a good old fashioned club coach did with the reds this year what eddie couldnt. 92-3 at Loftus….Fact is, Jones has more failings than successes as a FULLTIME coach.
28 Aug 2008, 11:50 am
But we tend to celebrate such coaching mediocrity in SA. A coach wins one tournament and we put him on a pedestal and negate all his other embarrassing failures (this sounds familiar).
28 Aug 2008, 11:54 am
#88 flanka: It’s not just coaches – it’s players too.
Just watch Rassie in a few years – he’s busy building himself up to be a great coach by not taking on too much too soon (ie. staying away from the Bok job for the time being).
28 Aug 2008, 11:55 am
#87 flanka: #85 Puma:
I don’t think it’s fair to judge eddie on one season with the reds. It’s so typical South African to do this. Anyway, I think eddie probaly laid down the foundation for this season as far as the reds are concerned. Next seaon will be interesting for the new oke, david something.
come on flanka just admit it, you don’t like steady eddie
28 Aug 2008, 11:56 am
#89 SyKoPlaya: completely agree…what a brilliant rugby mind he is though…if I’d want anyone coming in to advise PDV it’s him
28 Aug 2008, 11:56 am
#88 flanka:
Was it Rod Maqueen who coached the brumbies before eddie ?
28 Aug 2008, 11:58 am
#86 flanka: EJ has his limitations – as we have used him to assist with the backline and tactics, he has not called in a good forwards coach to sort out his pack. Ewan MacKenzie was much better with the forwards than the backs.
They could’ve been great together???
28 Aug 2008, 12:00 pm
#90 Zulushark: haha, ok i’ll admit I don’t like the bloke. But it’s not some personal vendeta. I just feel they guy hasn’t achieved enough to give comment in the media about EVERYTHING and EVERYTEAM. He’s constantly got blogs criticizing aussie rugby, criticizing PDV, telling people how things should or shouldnt be done. As a fulltime coach he hasn’t achieved enough to be the rugby martyr he thinks he is. As for the Reds I can tell you that they had to start from SCRATCH this year. 92-3 was the legacy Eddie left them with then he pissed off saying that the reds were too kak to save. David Mooney brought in fresh ideas and a positive mindset and what we now see is a resurgent reds team that very well could have finished above the Bulls this year. I’ll be interested to see how Saracens go this season
28 Aug 2008, 12:02 pm
#92 Zulushark: YUP
28 Aug 2008, 12:04 pm
#93 SyKoPlaya: Definitely…the waratahs really farked up regarding McKenzies contract. If we wanna try poach a forward specialist it’s this bloke. He knows everything about the wallaby loose trio coz it’s pretty much the waratahs loose trio. Ewan McKenzie of Eddie Jones ANYDAY.
28 Aug 2008, 12:04 pm
#94 flanka:
I agree he should keep 80% of his opions to himself but I think he can add value from time to time. His advice to butch during the WC made a big differnce to his game.
28 Aug 2008, 12:10 pm
#97 Zulushark: Yeah…unfortunately right now Butch needs more than advice..he’s shocking….but reality is while watching the worldcup it looked like Butch was at his peak. He was so good, you felt he wouldnt be able to get any better and it would be downhill from there
28 Aug 2008, 12:13 pm
#98 flanka:
Yeah his time is coming. I have thought long and hard about his replacement and I have to concede that maybe it’s time to give Frans an extended run. His charge downs can be fixed with some good coaching
28 Aug 2008, 12:15 pm
#98 flanka: IMO Butch doesn’t need advise at the moment – he needs a rest. I think he looks really jaded and while the spirit is willing, the body is toooooo broken.
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