North split on ELVs
5 Sep 2008
It’s just hours before the start of the 2008/09 Premiership season but there are still mixed feelings towards the implementation of the ELVs.
The 2008 Super 14 witnessed the introduction of the new laws and the first few weeks of this competition were marked by criticism from various players, coaches and media. Only 80% of the new laws were applied to this tournament, and when the full set were implemented in the Absa Currie Cup, there was even more criticism and derision. Nobody wanted to change.
It is not surprising that the northern hemisphere are displaying similar feelings ahead of the first round of league matches. Saracens director of rugby Eddie Jones has already questioned the need for such a change while a few other coaches say the ELVs will hamper the north’s traditional strengths.
“The experimental law variations will depower a lot of the traditional mauling sides, of which there are quite a few in the Premiership, and then there are the periods in which a number of teams will be pretty heavily hit by international call-ups,” Newcastle assistant coach Stuart Grimes said. “I don’t think some people have truly considered the implications of both of these things.”
London Irish lock Bob Casey lamented the law that allows defending players to sack the maul.
“The new rules will suit a team like London Irish, certainly with our attacking philosophy and the players we have,” Casey said. “I am a little bit disappointed from the line-out point of view that the new rules have taken away the driving contest but on the whole we are looking forward to it.”
Former England skipper Martin Corry said it may take some time to adjust to the ELVs. The Leicester skipper was initially against the new laws, and although he still opposes the reasons for change, he can see the sense in their implementation.
“After playing with them, the majority of them make a slight alteration and don’t make a huge difference. Should they have brought the rules in? No. The Guinness Premiership and Heineken Cup are great brands of rugby. Now I’ve accepted them and played under them, I’ve started to see the positives. There’s a lot of pressure on referees now,” said Corry.
Wasps loose forward Tom Rees shares a similar view to that of his former England team-mate.
“I’m not convinced they’re going to make a hell of a lot of difference. It’s going to be interesting over the first couple of months of the season to see how things bed down.
“As a club we’ve looked at the contact area and tweaking tactics in terms of line-outs and kicking, but it’s still the same game and hopefully we’ve done enough that we won’t get caught cold. Staying on your feet in contact, for example, is how it should be anyway,” said Rees.
“There’s not much need to change the game, but maybe somebody in authority wants to leave a legacy or something, who knows?”
Meanwhile, Glasgow Hawks coach Peter Wright is looking forward to a competition that allows smaller teams a better chance.
“It is very rare that Scotland is the biggest side on the park and we often struggle to get the ball against the bigger teams that just keep the ball at the back of a rolling maul. So the rules give the smaller teams a bit of a help. England and Ireland don’t want this one as they feel it takes away from one of their core strengths. It could make the game more open.”
49 Comments
5 Sep 2008, 10:44 am
Dragons!
5 Sep 2008, 10:56 am
Ha – close, but no cigar
5 Sep 2008, 10:57 am
England and Ireland against. Wales and Scotland for. The French don’t care as they ignore the laws anyway.
5 Sep 2008, 11:00 am
#3 David:
That’s how they stay ‘indepentant’ – just do their own thing ….. always voting the ‘other way’ to show that they think for themselves – Ha, ha,ha,
5 Sep 2008, 11:01 am
Seriously though – I do prefer the older laws including the raking of bodies illegally laying on the wrong side to illegally slow the ball down.
5 Sep 2008, 11:04 am
Who actually cares? I dont. The new laws take a lot more more interpretation from the ref and that’s the problem. The new laws are progressive and are a step in the right direction.
Refs need to be taken out of the game. Anything that improves that gets my vote!!!
5 Sep 2008, 11:06 am
#5 SyKoPlaya:
Now, those were the days!
5 Sep 2008, 11:09 am
#7 David:
Brillant – we just sorted out the kak there and then. Really enjoyed those days – both giving and receiving.
Battle scars always improved after game stories. (never letting the truth getting in the way of a good story)
5 Sep 2008, 11:10 am
The only problem is that the ABs were the best at that, as well.
5 Sep 2008, 11:12 am
#9 David:
And we respected them for it – as they respected us for our ‘cleaning out’ skills.
5 Sep 2008, 11:27 am
#8 SyKoPlaya:
Unless you happened to be a flyhalf, like me, pinned at the bottom of a ruck with some 110kg locks knee in your back. Damn difficult to roll away.
5 Sep 2008, 11:33 am
#11 David:
I was a scrummie – so did and got my fair share as well.
5 Sep 2008, 12:00 pm
Those were the days. A gentle digging of the studs on the back of a player on the wring side of the ruck. And then a long and forceful movement of the of the leg backwards.
Would our current crop of fetchers be as effective as they are, if rucking was re-introduced? (McCaw, Smith, Baywatch etc.)
Maybe lets bring them back when Watson play for WP against one of the Bulls, Lions, Cheetahs and Sharks. Then we will really see his true colours.
5 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm
So which ELV’s are they playing now? Bloody confusing all this
5 Sep 2008, 12:19 pm
#3 David: Wales aren’t pro-ELV David. If anything its Wales/Ireland/England against Scotland and France for.
I actually see a lot of self-interest in the reactions to the ELVs amongst club teams. Wasps are happy with the no kicking from 22 rule and the pulling down of the maul because it suits their game, Leicester much less so as they maul all day long.
I hope they forget about this maul rule.
5 Sep 2008, 12:20 pm
#14 Mutant: Global trial ELVs, the same ELVs South AFrica played Argentina under. No free kick sanction.
5 Sep 2008, 12:25 pm
#16 Big Hit: OK, so not the Super 14, Currie Cup or Tri-Nations ELV’s. Unbelievable.
5 Sep 2008, 12:27 pm
#17 Mutant: nope. the NH unions didn’t like those especially the quick tap
5 Sep 2008, 12:28 pm
#15 Big Hit:
That surprises me. I would have thought that Wales more open game would suit the ELVs, especially with Gatland in charge.
5 Sep 2008, 12:29 pm
#18 Big Hit:
You mean now that Matt Dawson has retired.
5 Sep 2008, 12:30 pm
There’s no doubt the ELV’s have been bad for the game – simply by the way they’ve been handled. Half the rugby supporters in the country don’t even know what set are being played when, let alone anyone getting into the game.
They need to settle on one set asap and move on.
5 Sep 2008, 12:31 pm
#19 David: You have to remember they’ve just won a grand slam under the old laws, so ‘change’ is not really high on their list of desirables. Like Wasps however, I think they’ll have no problem with the no kicking from the 22 and collapsing maul rule.
Its also worth noting that ELVs may not promote an open game at international level. Indeed the most successful team in this year’s 3N to date has been the team who have kept it tight and played a kicking game, NZ.
5 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm
#20 David: he was good at it wasn’t he. Find the nearest forward and make a beeline straight for him before pulling the victim act. Worked tho
5 Sep 2008, 12:34 pm
#21 Mutant: yes its a joke. Whats really annoying is that SANZAR got the choice of which ELVs to trial whereas the NH had ELVs forced upon them
5 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm
#24 Big Hit: Well that’s been half the problem. The SH can’t decide which rules to use so IMO it’s better to be told one set and to play them. I don’t think they’ll revolutionise the game, which brings us back to the point: why change in the first place?
5 Sep 2008, 12:42 pm
#25 Mutant: Apparently because the world cup final was too boring. But more likely because the antipodean teams who felt they were the best didn’t get that far, losing out to supposedly more boring teams.
I just hope the right ELVs are kept and dispensed with when its put to a vote in February.
5 Sep 2008, 12:48 pm
#26 Big Hit: I thought the France-NZ game was one of the better games of the WC, and only their fault the Blacks didn’t have the BMT. And unfortunately most finals are boring games because of what’s at stake, ELV’s or not.
And do you know how they judge success of the ELV’s – player, coach or fan polls maybe? Do we have any input as spectators?
5 Sep 2008, 12:57 pm
What will be interesting if the ELVs are introduced is how they’ll go down at school and club level. It’s all very well at senior level where the coaches are constantly monitored but a lot more open to interpretation lower down the scale.
5 Sep 2008, 12:58 pm
#27 Mutant: The only input spectators have as far as I know is an RFU questionnaire. As for judging their success, I think it basically all comes down to a vote by the Unions as to whether they’re wanted or not. Certainly the crowds haven’t got any bigger in the S14/3N.
5 Sep 2008, 13:45 pm
#29 Big Hit: The biggest downfall of the ELVs has been the officiating of them. It is ironic that the Australians, who are pushing the new laws, have the worst referees at the moment.
5 Sep 2008, 14:10 pm
#30 BokEd: Agree with that. The refs were just useless this year especially the Australians. Some of the Kiwis too though. Now they will get one of the best refs for 3N game in Brisbane. Of course a South African.
5 Sep 2008, 14:15 pm
What happens if NH just does not want to play with the ELV’s? Does it then just get dropped for next years S14 and 3N here?
5 Sep 2008, 14:19 pm
#32 Puma:
It would probably become an item on the IRB agenda – then it will be a ‘political’ vote that will be won be the power-players in the boardroom
5 Sep 2008, 14:25 pm
Bye Guys – have a good one, and may the best teams win ………….
5 Sep 2008, 15:09 pm
I understand that the IRB will discuss each of the ELVs separately, and vote on each one separately. I agree with this as hopefully the ELVs that add value will be retained and those that don’t work will be dropped.
The problem with multiple variations of laws being trialled relates to politics and hidden agenda. I actually feel that the reluctance of the “old world” to give the ELVs a reasonable trial has caused this fragmented approach. Unfortunately the culture of the UK means they will always be resistant to change. Those UK citizens that were pioneers all left for the new world over the past 200 years!
5 Sep 2008, 15:44 pm
Not too sure how many of you boytjies still play the game, but while I enjoyed the viewing spectacle of the Super 14 and Tri-nations with the ELVs, playing with them at amateur level is totally exhausting, and frustrating. We started our new rugby season, and boy I’ve never felt that exhausted after a game; apart from the confusion, as it’s really difficult to ref. Okay, while I agree fitness and conditioning should be part of every level of the game, I don’t think rugby with the ELVs will attract the fatties and slackers – you know the guys I’m talking about
Rugby used to be a game for all shapes and sizes, and that’s what made it so special. Since playing the game with the ELVs, I really feel that rugby has been revolutionised in such a way that it’s no longer recognisable as the game we know – the only size that it caters for now is a big strong fast player e.g. Pierre Spies. How good or bad it is for the game at large, only time will tell.
5 Sep 2008, 15:54 pm
I dont see how anyone ca feel the ELV are ****?
I love good rugby, but hate it when it is one penelty after the other which a ref decides on and then the final score is 12-9!
For pete’s sake……I always feel the team going to score tries is the one who deserves the win! Not the one kicking every opertunity it gets!!!
My 2 cents worth!
5 Sep 2008, 15:57 pm
#36 Durban Poison:
The ELVs require improved decision making. It is not mandatory to tap and go every time a short arm is awarded. I think it takes time to develop and implement suitable tactics.
5 Sep 2008, 16:29 pm
#38 Spencer 19: Good call. We’ll develop and implement suitable tactics as soon as I’ve caught my breath!
5 Sep 2008, 16:31 pm
#36 Durban Poison: yes, Rugby League
5 Sep 2008, 16:44 pm
Hi Everyone, I’ve created a Guinness Premiership pool on SuperBru.
Everyone’s welcome to join in.
Pool name : Keo’s GP
Pool code :swadloft
Big Hit, put your money where your mac is. All the UK based muppits, give it a go.
5 Sep 2008, 19:46 pm
They’re still called “Experimental” law variations.
There was uncertainty in SH before implementation as well, but as players and fans got used to it they realized that it was superior, with some improvements to be made.
I think it will be the same in the NH.
5 Sep 2008, 21:21 pm
#42 SodaJoe:
howzit soda
What happens if an experiment fails?
(one interpretation is if NZ don’t win in 2011)
5 Sep 2008, 23:09 pm
Hmmm.. the British Lions have refused to accept ANY yarpie refs for their tour — even for the provincial games! How’s that for a vote of no-confidence in SA home-town refs, hey? The ghost of Gert Bezuidenhout sweeps over the highveld still …
6 Sep 2008, 07:29 am
I the new rules ,dnt knw what the nh is complaining about. theyll never dominate the south
6 Sep 2008, 07:30 am
my prediction wil b a DRAW 4 NEXT YEARS B AND I LIONS TOUR
6 Sep 2008, 12:13 pm
#31 Puma: Agree there mate, the aussies were #$# and the NZders were not far behind. The saffers and some of the N hemisphere refs were far better
6 Sep 2008, 12:43 pm
#47 ka meti ka meti: Yes agree too but they are still learning too with the new rules. Just nice that the Brisbane game will have a SA ref. Hope it goes well. Good luck to the Ab’s too. Hope they take it.
6 Sep 2008, 14:39 pm
#42 SodaJoe:
Well said Joe.
They are afraid of the unknown.
Some refinements may need to be made, but in general ……….the players, the fans, the Refs, all seem to prefer these new laws.
I think an 80% endorsement from s14 Players.
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