Welsh eye Bok scalp
16 Sep 2008
Former Welsh wing Ieuan Evans believes the Springboks will be Wales’ easiest southern hemisphere opposition during the end-of-year tours.
Wales play the Boks on 8 November followed by Canada, Australia and New Zealand – all at the Millennium Stadium on successive weekends. Former Welsh captain Evans believes the world champions present the easiest opportunity for the Six Nations champs to cause an upset over the Tri-Nations teams.
“South Africa is the best chance of a win. Australia are probably the most innovative [of the three] and New Zealand are going to be a handful,” Evans told Scrum V.
He cited player burnout, which is not easing up as most of the Springboks have gone straight from the internationals into Absa Currie Cup action, as a reason to make the Welsh favourites. He also highlighted how the Bok players have struggled to understand Peter de Villiers’s game-plan as an added bonus for the hosts.
“South Africa are still unsure what sort of game they want to play. Also, a lot of their players are looking tired. Butch James has played two years of solid rugby.”
Not even a year after their World Cup triumph and the Boks already seem to have lost their aura of World Champions in the eyes of the northern hemisphere.
410 Comments
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16 Sep 2008, 11:26 am
Interesting article
16 Sep 2008, 11:26 am
#46 cab:
SA played a Wales “b” side with a lot of players left at home and just off a 6 nations – tired bodies. That and the fact they’ll be playing in Wales this time with wet cold fiedls, things could be a bit more exciting. But you’re right, doubt they’ll take the Boks
16 Sep 2008, 11:26 am
#47 rangerman: oops, vital cog missing this year!
jpp lead the try scoring tables last year, this year he didnt get a try.
butch has distribution skills that lead to a firing backline.
16 Sep 2008, 11:27 am
#41 stodders: they need to step up physically stodders and Gatland has them doing precisely that
16 Sep 2008, 11:27 am
SA cannot hide their hunger for a brilliant flyhalve its what they always dreamt about since Naas Botha retired.
What they crave for is a hero in that spot. Its why a lot of Saffas are urging selectors to play Steyn at flyhalve, they are longing for the Naas Botha type drop goals again.
16 Sep 2008, 11:27 am
#31 Big Hit:
were’nt all those penalties infront of of the posts.butch james should never have made the test squad this year,he played against carter and gittaue 6 times(3 against each) this year and never outplayed them, and he never will
16 Sep 2008, 11:28 am
#47 rangerman: I watched a fair bit. Butch is functional, but rarely much more. He rarely challenges the defensive line these days, and more often than not his passes are easily read. He does have a decent kicking game, but under the ELVs he has struggled in this aspect too at times.
JdV is the creative fulcrum of the Bok backline.
P.S. your last comment sums him up. Instead of telling me who Butch last broke in half, tell me when he last popped a pass that carved up the opposition, or broke the defensive line with a great step or surge of pace. Truth is, you’ll struggle.
16 Sep 2008, 11:28 am
#52 Richie_7: ja, and NZ played a england developement team.
lets see how they fare at twickers.
16 Sep 2008, 11:28 am
#47 rangerman: great – thats just what you want – a past-it fly half who can break someone in half
never mind the win – just go for the hit
ag – its no wonder SA is in trouble
16 Sep 2008, 11:28 am
the chances of losing to the welsh are about 10-1, only chance of it happening is if PdV chooses an experimental side and/or reverts to expansive strategy in NH and even then the Boks have more attacking options.
Evans is mad, the game to target is australia, whom the Boks annihilated when playing to their potential and the manner which they should, i.e. bosh upfront.
16 Sep 2008, 11:29 am
#56 st.a.t.w: no not all of them a few were wide out. He outplayed Carter last year and Wilkinson and Hernandez for that matter. Carter and Giteau had a season under the ELVs under their belt. Butch had no time playing under the new rules. You say he shouldn’t have made the test squad, so who would you pick at 10?
16 Sep 2008, 11:30 am
#56 st.a.t.w: oh, i dont know about that. his tactical kicking was at the heart of the wallaby demise at the cokeblik.
i agree, when he went wrong, he went wrong big time! like newlands. but he wasnt the only one to blame there. percy and FdP also had a mare with the boot.
16 Sep 2008, 11:30 am
#48 Big Hit: Oh FFS. He is Bath’s kicker. That means he has been given the responsibility, therefore he needs to be reliable. If he didn’t think he could do it, he should have told the Bath coach Meehan “thanks, but no thanks” and the coach could have selected another kicker instead. I’m sure James will take full responsibility for his woeful kicking on the weekend, even if you want to give him a list of excuses.
16 Sep 2008, 11:31 am
#52 Richie_7:
yip and i gave them more respect than was merited when they toured, but old yai-yine here has got up my nose with his comments, these comments must be remembered, motivation and all, goodness knows they’ve been on the receiving end of some immense lessons from the Boks in the past. we nearly put a ton past them a few years back. cheeky chops evans.
16 Sep 2008, 11:33 am
#57 stodders: you’re showing your ignorance here stodders tbh. JDV hasn’t created anything, he rarely passes and never sends it wide before contact, all his runs are on the back of Butch’s distribution or Jacobs creativity. Again you’re falling into the trap of thinking a good linebreaker is a creative attacker, its not the case. As for when he last opened up a defence, he created two tries v Gloucester last week and created many which destroyed Australia.
16 Sep 2008, 11:34 am
#57 stodders: now dont go looking down your nose at the physical aspects of butch’s game stodders.
he has proved time and again that his physicality is an asset as witnessed by the almost complete abscence of any kind of penalties against him for this aspect of his game over the last two years.
his channel is secure but yes, he has slowed down. he is not the plonker you make him out to be and imo if you label him a journeyman you do so in error.
16 Sep 2008, 11:34 am
people like this should be fined for making these comments. like the 6 nations champs were coming here to beat the world champs earlier this year. what he should be saying is wales have no chance against any of the teams
16 Sep 2008, 11:34 am
#54 Big Hit: To beat the Boks, you need to stand up to them physically, but you also need to play with intelligence. It is the blueprint the Wallabies have used with some success for the last few years.
You can’t say the Wallabies have had the bigger, stronger forwards, but they have played with more discipline and accuracy than the Boks at times which has seen them win as many as they have lost in recent times.
If Wales can gain parity at the tackle point and in the set pieces (and it is lineout that is their achilles heel), they have a good chance of putting pressure on the Boks and challenging them to keep their mobile runners from crossing the try line. If they don’t, the Boks will walk over them.
16 Sep 2008, 11:34 am
#63 stodders: Barkley was Bath’s kicker last season and Montgomery was SA’s kicker. Butch has been thrust into a goal-kicking role he’s not cut out for and shouldn’t really be doing. He’s never been more than a 3/5 kicker over a period of games and its no coincidence he played his best rugby when others have the responsibility.
16 Sep 2008, 11:35 am
#65 Big Hit: I don’t count GP rugby against the likes of Willie Walker as good examples.
16 Sep 2008, 11:35 am
#68 stodders: thats basically what Gatland says, and I agree. Gatland hasn’t targeted wins btw, he just wants to challenge them. i think they have a good chance v NZ too.
16 Sep 2008, 11:37 am
#70 stodders:Many times he sent wide balls out at newlands and the Boks broke through only to be turned over at the last moment. You should watch more carefully.
16 Sep 2008, 11:37 am
#63 stodders: go back and watch his silky offloads vs wales or the steal he executed on one of the wales forwards which set the player outside him away for a try.
the “springboks didnt lay running rugby in the wc” bs is a myth man. how many tries per game are acceptable?
the final was just that, a final. the rest of our games were running affairs. with a running flyhalf.
16 Sep 2008, 11:37 am
#58 rangerman:
Pretty damn well I’d think, but lets wait and see
BTW, when last the Boks achieved a grand slam?
16 Sep 2008, 11:38 am
Butch and JdV are both sublime players, in fact the combination of FdP, Butch, JdV has played only a handful of games together with all their injuries – together thats a worldclass combo with each complemening one another.
Butch has lost a bit of sharpness, he needs to be rested. If managed he is an expereinced fallback option for the next 2 years at least. JdV has been in outstanding form. His anticipation is phenomenal, but he also is deceptively fast and has a good turn and change-up for a big guy, making many linebreaks in the 3N. It would be interesting to see a switch of JdV and Jacobs, but they have done well in the combination PdV put them in. I still cant understand how Frans Steyn is on the bench and Jacques Fourie will also be back, both worlclass centers.
16 Sep 2008, 11:39 am
#47 rangerman:
You grasping at straws to make him look good.
“sure, he has slowed down and his knees are a problem as is the burnout he is clearly suffering from ” HaHaHaHA!!!!
“his deft touches and passing game are great.” So what its his job.
“p.s. he also broke barnes in half albeit in a match we lost.” Wel if thats make a flyhalve great i have to agree.
“butch has distribution skills that lead to a firing backline.” When last did a bok backline actually fire, I mean really.
16 Sep 2008, 11:40 am
#57 stodders:
The problem with Butch is that under the ELVs he can’t cope with the 5m rule, he’s too slow. Under the traditional rules this is not a problem as he has always been a bash-em-up type direct flyhalf, but under the ELVs he seems rudderless in all that space.
But definitely not the kind of player you want tackling you, that’s for sure.
I for one would love to see Morne Steyn or Peter Grant being trialled at flyhalf. Both are exciting prospects.
By the way, when did this become a Butch James thread?
16 Sep 2008, 11:41 am
#66 rangerman: I admire Butch’s physical game, but it doesn’t blind me to his weaknesses in other areas. Like I said, he is a functional player.
He was the missing link in the Bok backline that won the world cup. He kicked well for territory and passed at the right times. Most importantly of all, he kept his mistakes to a minimum and played the percentages well.
He has rarely won games for the Boks at international level, but in fairness he has rarely lost games for the Boks at international level. The Boks needed someone like him after the misfiring duo of Jaco vdW and Andre Pretorius, both of whom mixed the sublime with the ridiculous and stunted the Bok backline.
James is someone who can do the basics well without making mistakes to allow for the explosive guys outside him to play. He is a good flyhalf, but he isn’t a great. Just my opinion.
16 Sep 2008, 11:41 am
#74 Richie_7: what are you bringing up grand slams for?
this isnt a ***** size competition richie, i merely stated that england werent as strong as they will be, just as you stated wales werent as strong as they will be when they toured here.
if you arent cut out for reasonable debate then continue as you were.
16 Sep 2008, 11:41 am
#77 WP Till I Die: When Big Hit started his case for the defence
16 Sep 2008, 11:41 am
#73 rangerman: you’re a joker
Wales at home will be full strength
Butch might be good against Samoa, Fiji, USA, inbound touring teams but when it matters, against quality – he is no where
16 Sep 2008, 11:42 am
#76 Namblack:
Butch is past his sell by date. Personally always thought the guy was a bit of a tool with his sloppy high tackles. He likes to think of himself as an enforcer, but he simply takes cheap shots to make up for his lack of talent.
Had some crackers for my Sharkies, but when looking at consistency, he’s been consistently below par
16 Sep 2008, 11:42 am
#79 rangerman:
Rangerman, if you can’t answer a simple question don’t get defensive and change the subject.
16 Sep 2008, 11:42 am
#65 Big Hit:
Whoa. Have you been watching the Springbok matches? Most of our backline tries were created by Jean de Villiers, Adi Jacobs thrives off of playing outside him.
I don’t think you and me have been watching the same games.
16 Sep 2008, 11:42 am
#76 Namblack: uh, three weeks ago at ellis park?
lol, keep it up mate.
16 Sep 2008, 11:44 am
#61 Big Hit:
when the squad was chosen just after the s14 pgrant was the best 10 in the country,unfortunatly he never got areal oppertunity(unlike f steyn who got every oppertunity)to prove himself,so we don’t know if the situation would have been better or wors,hopefully grant will get his chance at the end of the year
#62 rangerman:
agree with you on percy and fdp ,but butch had 4 or 5 shockers in a row
16 Sep 2008, 11:44 am
#47 rangerman: “Burnout” !!!!!!
Go Rangerman – come on you can do better
How much burn-out is his bank account suffering
or
why not rest him from Bok duties – you cant cause theres no one else
16 Sep 2008, 11:44 am
#72 Big Hit: I also saw the ABs reading that the miss pass was coming and had the players there to gang tackle the receiving player. James was too telegraphic in that game.
To be honest, using the Newlands game as an example is a bad idea. It was one of James’ poorest performances this year (primarily because he didn’t have the excuse of being under the weather like he did in NZ).
16 Sep 2008, 11:45 am
#84 WP Till I Die: that’s because Big Hit can only see one man on the pitch – Butch James. The rest are just blurs, so it looks like one man is doing it all
16 Sep 2008, 11:45 am
#81 vindicated:
You really do hate the Springboks, don’t you? You must really hate living and working here?
16 Sep 2008, 11:46 am
#79 rangerman: are you losing it – do you need another break ?
Walk away, have a think, and come back later
16 Sep 2008, 11:46 am
#76 Namblack: how about you suggest an alternative?
#78 stodders: I don’t think anyone said he was a great flyhalf, but he is a very good one and was great last year. The guy has played in 2 Super 14 finals and won a World Cup after all.
16 Sep 2008, 11:47 am
#89 stodders: the cheap shots do you no favours stodders, a sure sign that someone has lost a debate
16 Sep 2008, 11:47 am
#75 cab: Have to disagree. FDP and JdV are sublime players. But sublime payers need players like James around to provide them with solidity consistency. As a combination they work well together because of this.
16 Sep 2008, 11:48 am
I think Peter Grant and Ruan Pienaar are the flyhalves to take over from Butch. Both however need to concentrate on what they do best which is to attack the adv line and Ruan needs to learn to inject some pace onto the ball from a deeper position (he still stands like a scrummie). Both players are the only flyhalves in SA, which do not telegraph their plays, and they will suit PdV’s style. In such a situation, Steyn at 12 provides the boot option.
Ideally, one wants FdP-Butch-JdV playing together regularly and also Januarie-Grant/Pienaar-Steyn running alot of practice drills and games together.
when jacques fourie is fit again there are going to be some real selection conundrums.
16 Sep 2008, 11:48 am
#93 Big Hit: And someone claiming they have won the debate is a clear sign someone is flagging
16 Sep 2008, 11:48 am
#81 vindicated: sublime reasoning from you again. thanks for the input.
#83 Richie_7: richie, when last did the AB’s win a world cup?
see, its silly. now recognise that the AB’s will not be facing a second string england when they tour. just as i recognise that wales will be a far sterner prospect at home. have i said any different?
#78 stodders: fair enough stodders. i have seen the boks lose games when butch has left the field though. two examples would be NZ in durbs in 2007 and england at twickers in 2006. he may have dissapointed in some games during the 3n but then so did players like matfield and habana. that doesnt mean they are plonkers.
16 Sep 2008, 11:49 am
#88 stodders: A couple of overhit kicks aside (FDP did a couple too) he had a good game at Newlands, if the passes were so telegraphed then why not intercepts and why did SA keep breaking the NZ line? SA went down that day as a result of not protecting the ball on the floor not as a result of their 10.
16 Sep 2008, 11:50 am
#93 Big Hit: It’s not a cheap shot really…it’s just a bit of fun. I’m not getting all serious over this. It’s just my opinion vs yours. And i have realised some time ago that our opinions are like chalk and cheese.
16 Sep 2008, 11:50 am
#90 WP Till I Die: no I dont hate the Springboks
What I have an issue with is their fans that talk kuk all days
And by the way – I live here by choice and I love it – thanks for having me
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