Welsh eye Bok scalp
16 Sep 2008
Former Welsh wing Ieuan Evans believes the Springboks will be Wales’ easiest southern hemisphere opposition during the end-of-year tours.
Wales play the Boks on 8 November followed by Canada, Australia and New Zealand – all at the Millennium Stadium on successive weekends. Former Welsh captain Evans believes the world champions present the easiest opportunity for the Six Nations champs to cause an upset over the Tri-Nations teams.
“South Africa is the best chance of a win. Australia are probably the most innovative [of the three] and New Zealand are going to be a handful,” Evans told Scrum V.
He cited player burnout, which is not easing up as most of the Springboks have gone straight from the internationals into Absa Currie Cup action, as a reason to make the Welsh favourites. He also highlighted how the Bok players have struggled to understand Peter de Villiers’s game-plan as an added bonus for the hosts.
“South Africa are still unsure what sort of game they want to play. Also, a lot of their players are looking tired. Butch James has played two years of solid rugby.”
Not even a year after their World Cup triumph and the Boks already seem to have lost their aura of World Champions in the eyes of the northern hemisphere.
410 Comments
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16 Sep 2008, 12:08 pm
#137 stodders:
Did you just describe Mischalak or Steyn?
16 Sep 2008, 12:08 pm
#137 stodders: a la Carlos Spencer
16 Sep 2008, 12:09 pm
#147 stodders: I didn’t notice your post on the other thread. Yes, its pretty exciting, just hope he holds it together for the AIs. Dan’s gonna get outplay and smashed
16 Sep 2008, 12:10 pm
#149 Namblack: I think Steyn is a 12 but agree with M.Steyn selection. Not sure we’ll ever see Pienaar at 10 again.
16 Sep 2008, 12:10 pm
#140 vindicated: uhm, i need no more proof. i saw the scoreboard.
shameful. how much do they pay that bunch?
#141 stodders: ha! i dangled hernandez out there and you snapped it up. judging by the last time the two sides met at full strength (wc, right after they beat france who beat……ag, you know) butch emerges as the top dog. hernandez looked bad because butch made him look bad.
sadly butch was made to look the same by diving dan and giteau. so he is middle tier, but thats still pretty damn good.
16 Sep 2008, 12:10 pm
#148 Big Hit: Not for me. I think Hodgson is a better flyhalf in the GP, he’s just sh*t at international level.
Cipriani was also a better 10 last year than James, as was evidenced by Wasps picking up the GP title at Twickers.
Andy Goode is in the Butch James style of player. Functional.
16 Sep 2008, 12:11 pm
#138 Big Hit:
another province hater i see
16 Sep 2008, 12:11 pm
#152 vindicated: Spencer should have been a fullback…I would have chosen Mehrtens every day over Carlos, and I enjoy watching Carlos.
16 Sep 2008, 12:12 pm
#155 rangerman: just keeping it in perspective – I saw the socreboards at Durban and Subiaco as well
16 Sep 2008, 12:13 pm
#156 stodders: Cipriani got dropped by McGeechan for a game or two for Walder, overreliant on attack and not using his tactical brain. Andy Goode actually comfortably outplayed him. Hodgson was good its true but he has no defence.
16 Sep 2008, 12:13 pm
#155 rangerman: Hernandez looked bad because the Bok pack smashed the Argies in certain periods of that game. If you put Hernandez in the Bok team, I think you’d be quite surprised at how good Hernandez is. He’s not in the league of Carter or a fully fit Wilkinson yet, but he could make it there soon.
16 Sep 2008, 12:14 pm
#159 vindicated: ja, but at subiaco the boks turned up, they were simply outplayed.
now if the wallabies “didnt turn up at ellis park” that speaks volumes about their pride.
16 Sep 2008, 12:15 pm
#160 Big Hit: True, but McGeechan recalled Cipriani because of his game breaking abilities.
Hodgson doesn’t have good defence, you’re right, but in the GP he has been carving up defences and setting his backline away better than any other flyhalf for some time now. He’s lucky that Sale have a good defensive backrow that keeps him out of trouble most of the time.
16 Sep 2008, 12:17 pm
#163 stodders: Hodgson has started the season with a bang, if only he could tackle he’d be very good. I agree that Hernandez is underrated by some on here based on his semi-final performance, he’s already as good as Wilkinson and Carter for my money.
16 Sep 2008, 12:17 pm
#161 stodders: cmon, the argies tight five didnt get smashed in that game?
they were solid and their competition at the breakdown was outstanding.
but a great flyhalf functions well even behind a losing pack. no, hernandez was outplayed by butch and i saw the fear in his eyes on a few occasions. like when he couldnt catch the ball.
16 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm
Hodgeson has his moments, the best test he ever played was the men v boys test when he carved the boks up a bit at twickenham. the worst test he played was the recent one’s against the ABs, except the 12 that was selected did not complement defensively at all.
Hernandez is an outsntanding football, skily skills including a great side-flip pass this weekend, but not really a master tactician or a general at 10, does not have a great kicking game either.
carter’s the best and then there’s daylight on current form.
16 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm
#157 st.a.t.w: I’d have Burger, Monty and JDV (wing) in the side, so no I’m not.
16 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm
#166 cab: agreed.
16 Sep 2008, 12:19 pm
#166 cab: When was the men v boys test? 2004? I think a 12 shouldn’t have to complement the 10 defensively, a 10 should be capable of holding his own.
16 Sep 2008, 12:20 pm
#155 rangerman:
I don’t think Giteau is as good a 10 as some make out. He can’t control a game with his boot yet like Carter and James and although he tackles well, teams can make good yardage through his channel. He also struggles sometimes to consistently make the split second decisions that a top flyhalf needs to. I still think the extra space and time at 12 suits his game better and allows his brilliant footwork and passing abilities to come to the fore.
James would struggle to make the Wallaby team because he isn’t creative enough. It is the Wallaby style to have their playmaker at 10, not 12.
16 Sep 2008, 12:21 pm
#164 Big Hit: He isn’t for mine, because he hasn’t yet produced against a top SH team, and like it or not, they are still the benchmark.
16 Sep 2008, 12:21 pm
think it was JW who said there’s no such thing as a NZ B side, the closest you come to it is when McCaw and Carter are not playing, think thats very true.
in fact, i dont believe mccaw was playing in our win in nz. it was a very green-looking side generally, henry tightened up as comp went on.
16 Sep 2008, 12:21 pm
#130 stodders:
same old story..they be pumped for first half then crumble under the X factor powers of likes of Steyn, Spies, Kankowski
McGeechan though will be watching these games with an eye on Lions for next year. Put money on him building his test side around a fit Wilkinson..with Cipriani at 12 or 15..mark my word!
16 Sep 2008, 12:22 pm
#170 stodders: I agree with you re. Giteau, some are getting carried away based on his running ability, there’s more to a 10 than that. He’ll improve though and will be great in a season or two. Its hard to know whether James would make it for the Wallabies, I can think of reasons for and against.
16 Sep 2008, 12:25 pm
#166 cab: Agree with you cab. Carter on current form has everything in his game, whereas his peers have too many flaws in their overall skillset to challenge him.
I’d say Wilkinson if he can get back to full form would pose Carter his biggest threat, but their styles are very different. I am most interested to see how Wilkinson looks to defend Carter. James has shown that if you can get up into Carter’s face you can disrupt him, but Carter has also shown at different times that he can slip through those sort of challenges. Wilkinson prefers the more direct flyhalves running down his channels. He sometimes struggles against more balanced runners, i.e. Carter, Giteau.
16 Sep 2008, 12:26 pm
#174 Big Hit:
james would never make the cut for Wallabies..he is like a slow tank who can kick. Think Rod Kafer.
Barnes, Gitau, Beale, Cooper..these guys have far more variety and x factor to their games. Andre Pretorius fit will be back to reclaim his throne.
16 Sep 2008, 12:27 pm
#174 Big Hit: I think the biggest reasons against are that he doesn’t challenge the gain line enough or is creative enough to be an Australian 10. If James were playing in the 80s with Lynagh, he may well have had a shout. But the Wallabies have gotten used to Larkham style of 10, and James is not that type of 10.
16 Sep 2008, 12:27 pm
#169 Big Hit:
cant remember if it was 2004 or 2005, i was at the stadium with my brother and was convinced SA could win that year, but were annihilated. agree on your 10 holding his own, but if he is very talented, then got to make a plan, i’d use giteau as an example, but he holds his own. SA had andre pretorius, who was very talented, but always felt he needed a big 12 alongside him and alot of cover from Schalk. in fact i think SA used to purposefully try and rush from the outside in so that Burger could take them down in this channel. made me laugh, old schalk, flinging himself at everything that moved.
16 Sep 2008, 12:27 pm
#176 greatest13gerber: lol, pretorius will sadly probably never play for the boks again.
16 Sep 2008, 12:28 pm
Okay, and by easy he means only losing by 40?
16 Sep 2008, 12:28 pm
#173 greatest13gerber: Same old story as 1998?
16 Sep 2008, 12:29 pm
#167 Big Hit:
whyt on earth would you put jdv on the wing,let me guess to find a spot for francois steyn
16 Sep 2008, 12:31 pm
#175 stodders:
of course you’d agree, you are a new zealander by heart.
wilkinson had the best mental ability of any player i have seen. i dont think he could boot the ball as far as nice, or was as deft at controlling a game, but definitely one of the best flyhalves ever. unfortunately he is too injury prone, if one player can come back its him, but too many injuries, out too long, starting too unravel.
16 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm
#175 stodders:
You shut Carter down by putting him under pressure. That means you need a very brash in-your-face flyhalf and some quick loosies tearing down on him at every opportunity – but he has improved in this area the last few years, you’re quite right that Carter sometimes manages to slip past challenges like that.
It was clear to see that the team orders for the Boks on the overseas leg of the Tri-Nations was “Get Carter”.
16 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm
#167 Big Hit: You are a bit confused. It is Bekker that hangs around on the wing. Not Schalk.
16 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm
#178 cab: A bit like Kronfeld/McCaw covering across to cover Mehrtens for the Abs/Crusaders. It did get to the point though where even a very tactical flyhalf like Mehrtens became a liability and his coaches moved him back to flyhalf and Leon MacDonald to defend the 10 channel from set pieces.
16 Sep 2008, 12:33 pm
#183 cab:
Best mental ability. How can you judge that?
16 Sep 2008, 12:33 pm
#176 greatest13gerber: I reckon Pretorius would be a pretty good 10 now if he was fit with greater maturity to his game, he was a headless chicken at one point
#182 st.a.t.w: because he doesn’t distribute and bring the outside backs into play, thats why Habana never gets the ball, I’d have Steyn or Grant at 12.
#175 stodders: Carter doesn’t have Jonny’s defence
16 Sep 2008, 12:37 pm
#186 stodders:
Kronfeld, now that was a class player. Always played offsides tho, like McCaw they have alot in common.
#187 stodders:
His powers of concentration were phenomenal, it was self-evident. I should imagine any coach that has ever coached him believes the only thing in JW’s mind is rugby, winning and how to improve his own game.
16 Sep 2008, 12:37 pm
#183 cab: Wilkinson is an old style flyhalf in the mould of Porta, Fox, Lynagh and ol’ Naas in the way he plays the game. more of kicker/organiser than an incisive runner/creator.
Where he reinvigorated flyhalf play was in his crunching defence. I say reinvigorated, because “Lem” Honnibal was the first bone crushing 10 I remember seeing.
16 Sep 2008, 12:37 pm
#187 stodders:
1998 wasn’t a bad yr
#181 stodders:
lol how the fck do you judge that?..
Carter and Gitau are equal in my book. Carter rates Wilkinson better then himself and the 10 he looks up to.
16 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm
#188 Big Hit: Jonny doesn’t have Carter’s attack.
16 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm
#188 Big Hit:
Big Hit, again I am appalled at your lack of respect for Jean de Villiers.
He has created the majority of tries scored by South Africa in this Tri-Nations; and from a defensive point of view, his contribution in organising the backline is vital.
Expect to see the backline struggle if you move Jean to wing and bring Frans Steyn in at 12. Frans Steyn at inside centre? Now there’s someone that does not distribute.
16 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm
#190 stodders: you’re talking about the injury prone wilkinson, the fully fit wilkinson was a tremendous runner, through the gap and offload in a flash
16 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm
#191 greatest13gerber: And that’s fair. Wilkinson has won a world cup, and Carter is a humble sort of chap.
16 Sep 2008, 12:39 pm
#188 Big Hit: The current Jonny doesn’t have the old Jonny’s defence either
16 Sep 2008, 12:40 pm
#188 Big Hit
it seems to me that you don’t know alot about rugby,some of the comments you make are beyond ridiculous
16 Sep 2008, 12:40 pm
#193 WP Till I Die: Why is moving a player to the wing a demotion? it will actually capitalise on his strengths as more ball will go to the wing with a distributing inside centre. Its a myth to say Steyn does not distribute whilst at IC, he can be a selfish player but when he plays 12 he uses his outside men more than JDV. What about Grant for 12?
16 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm
#196 stodders: no but its still pretty good, he can still smash someone
16 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm
seems like a very nice oke kronfeld, i always thought he must be a bit dom with the way he used to play, fantastic mullet-head, but was watching a doccie where he went to go play in a world side against tonga for the new king’s coronation. quite a charatcer.
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