Kelleher backs Carter’s French fling
6 Oct 2008
Former All Blacks scrumhalf Byron Kelleher believes Dan Carter’s spell at French Top 14 side Perpignan will make him a better player.
Carter has signed a short-term contract with Perpignan and Kelleher, in his second season with Toulouse, believes the experience will invigorate him.
“I’ve wound him up about having to learn Catalan and how the French will welcome him at the bottom of a ruck,” Kelleher told the Daily Telegraph. “It is a great move for Dan and will give him a fresh rugby and mental perspective to take back to New Zealand.”
Kelleher had a successful first season with the southern France club, winning the Player of the Year award, and seems to have carried that form into the 2008/09 season.
76 Comments
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6 Oct 2008, 17:43 pm
#50 Big Hit:
Was a great tackle on the kittens captain though.
6 Oct 2008, 17:45 pm
#46 Big Hit:
oh, lets not split hairs. Funny, he of the broad-sweeping statements is suddenly moved to facts and accuracy ? Your bullsh*tting days over already ?! Lets just say Im “aware” alright.
So Premiership crowds from 2 weeks ago ?
Wasps – the reigning Champions – could only muster 7,600
Newcastle vs N’hampton – 4,000
Quins v Bristol – 9,000
ooh yes, silly me – MUCH bigger crowd in the Premiership !
and last week there was an article by Twits quoted ‘scribes’ as saying the Magners League was “the Best in World rugby”. Try to contain yourselves, because the ‘scribe’ was trying a moment of seriousness – he based this on the “wealth” of foreigners who are bringing class to the competition. In support he quoted ‘International stars’ like John Arlidge. Arlidge, another Glen Jackson, who played for Auckland/Northland but was quickly discarded because all he could do was kick.
I still love the one about Cirpriani and O’Gara being superior players to DC. Now that IS hilarious. Has there ever been a more 1-dimensional flyhalf than O’Gara ?
6 Oct 2008, 17:50 pm
#32 BlackPanther: man u nailed it what a good read
6 Oct 2008, 17:53 pm
#52 BlackPanther: so you quote Wasps who don’t have a permanent home and are hoping to relocate soon and Newcastle one of the smallest attendances in the GP. You talk about a NZ/Aus final having 58,000 but look at the Guinness Premiership final attendance of 82,000 between two club teams. I suppose you don’t think thats impressive either. O’Gara actually outplayed Carter for most of the Ire/Nz game this year. Whether you consider him one-dimensional is another matter, he’s a double European champion. I agree the Magners league is poor but only because they field second teams.
6 Oct 2008, 17:53 pm
#47 Big Hit:
I agree, you cant compare players on stats alone. But Im not sure what we are supposed to be comparing Cipriani and DC on.
Let me see
Cipriani has had 1 incomplete season for Wasps and is 20yrs old. He won 1 Premiershiptitle with Wasps.
DC has been in the ABs since he was 20yrs. He has won a multitude of NPC, S12/14 and TriN titles. He has 1 Grand Slam under his belt (and counting) and he was the best player vs Lions ’05. He was the best player for ABs in TriN ’08 – bar possibly McCaw – even when the ABs lost.
So Im at a loss as to how to compare these 2 players, because to the neutral eye its, um…….what theyve produced, and how influential they have been in teams results.
So Cipriani gets bonus points for scoring Kelly Brook ? otherwise, what else have we got to go on ?
6 Oct 2008, 17:54 pm
#32 BlackPanther: why make excuses about the opposition for Jackson and Flutey succeeding up north where ABs like Mauger and Gear look ordinary? surely its the same opposition?
6 Oct 2008, 17:56 pm
#55 BlackPanther: Cipriani has had two seasons with Wasps and won the European cup playing at 15 when he was 19 years old. His one international start he was close to MOTM. I’m not saying he’s better, but he is quicker and he is arguably a more exciting player than Carter. But I’m willing to wait and see on this one.
6 Oct 2008, 18:08 pm
#54 Big Hit:
forgive me for not placing as much weight on Heinken Cup victories as you do. Altho youve been noted as stating S14 as a non-competition. Why ? Well, its the fashion innit.
Magners League is not ‘poor’, its horrendous ! Take out Munster and Ospreys and the remainder would struggle to compete in the Heartland trophy (NZ Div II). Connacht, Ulster, Glasgow, Newport – these teams are seriously below-par !
The Premiership is no more than a grind. It was and remains 10-man rugby. The sooner they embrace rugby in Summer and conditions and attitudes improve with it, the better. Rico Gear doesnt shine at Worcester, Twit, because he doesnt receive the ball.
Top 14 rugby in France IS the real deal. I watch it every week and the games are fast, skillful and passionate. But their crowds are over-inflated by gimmicks (Stades new jersey is not pink anymore, its an Andy Warhol-type pop-art moment of multi-colours), giveaways and players receiving telephone number salaries not reflecting crowd numbers. Toulon, for example, have a 10mEuro+ budget yet still only pull crowds at home of 10-12,000.
6 Oct 2008, 18:11 pm
#46 Big Hit: yes i reside in leeds and i watch most of the guiness premership matches he is a talent much like ryan lamb but has a long way to get to DCs level let alone surpass it
6 Oct 2008, 18:13 pm
#56 Big Hit:
Flutey gets rave reviews here because the Poms suddenly realised they could ‘buy’ him. He does nothing starry for Wasps, just does the basics well. No more, no less.
Flutey, Vainikolo, Stevens, Perrywater, van Gisenberg, Allot, Catt….
30% more senior registered players than NZ and STILL they need to BUY their team. How sad. Atleast the Kiwis have the decency to educate their Polynesian brothers 1st.
6 Oct 2008, 18:34 pm
#59 kace: he’s much better than Ryan Lamb who can’t even secure his place in the Gloucester team. You can’t really compare the two. Maybe Cipriani is not on Carter’s level but we’ll soon find out.
#60 BlackPanther: Flutey got player of the year ahead of McAlister and numerous other top players, he was excellent, there’s no denying it. The registered players stat is misleading as most are amateur and don’t take the game seriously. Better to look at the schoolboy figure where most players are signed from. Also most of the players you mention had an english parent.
#58 BlackPanther: I never said the S14 was a non-competition, I think its on a similar level to the HEC. I didn’t boast about attendances but I will defend a point if you’re going to mislead. Those Magners teams are below par, I’m not arguing but Leinster, Munster, Ospreys and Edinburgh are competitive. Also Worcester play expansive rugby, if you actually watched some GP you’d know this. Wasps, Harlequins, Bath and London Irish also play wide rugby.
6 Oct 2008, 18:38 pm
#58 BlackPanther: Btw Top 14 sides regularly get dominated in Europe by GP teams who’ve won more European Cups and European Challenge Cups. You just prefer their rugby because its more like Aus/Nz rugby.
6 Oct 2008, 18:47 pm
#61 Big Hit:
pull the other leg – Flutey is a Maori. Vainikolo a Tongan. Perrywater is born in NZ and plucked from obscurity in France. van Gisenberg qualified only via residency. And if youre relying on the rest having an English parent, then go ahead, embarrass yourself in the doing.
You have repeatedly discounted S14 as a competition of any value. Why not – thats what your journos are telling you to think, arent they ?!
Edinburgh ? I think you mean theyre competitve COMPARED to what they were. They are distinctly average in every other respect. Ive seen them play, live, and it aint pretty.
I actually DO watch GP and I coach at a English ex-GP club. In England they coach players to go-to-ground in the tackle, in NZ its about staying on your feet. Enough said.
6 Oct 2008, 18:57 pm
#63 BlackPanther: Freshwater’s Dad is English, Hartley has an English parent, Catt too and Stevens. Van Gibergen had a whole 1 cap as sub I believe. I don’t see how its embarrassing. I haven’t said anything bad about the S14, its a competition I enjoy. I think you read too much Stephen Jones, he compares it to basketball. What I don’t get is, if you don’t like these journos why do you read their articles?
6 Oct 2008, 19:02 pm
#62 Big Hit:
Correct. Its all in the attitude – we respect the French in every rugby way because they play rugby, with expression and personality, the way it should be played. Thats why when we lose to them in a 1-off RWC match, we dont see it as ‘choke’, we see them as an imposing opposition who can be dangerous on any given day despite previous history. France are NZs nemesis. It has been this way, always, and will continue to be. 1979 (Bastille Day @ EP). 1984 ‘the try from the end of the Earth’ (@ EP). 1999 RWC Semi. 2007 RWC Qter. I have been there for all of them and my respect is endless.
And Ive been in UK 15years, have watched oodles of GP and European rugby and feel qualified to speak about UK rugby. Ive been to many games at Wasps from Loftus Rd days to H.Wycombe, so also feel qualified to comment on Cipriani. Which is why you preaching to the less-well-informed is hilarious. Your ability to bullsh*t knows no bounds.
6 Oct 2008, 19:09 pm
#64 Big Hit:
for the sheer hypocritical enjoyment of it all ! If ever there was a journo who has comprimised his credibility, then it is he. And you just lap it all up, some of your entries are almost word-for-word.
6 Oct 2008, 19:13 pm
#65 BlackPanther:
correction – 1994 ‘the try from the end of the Earth’. The 2-0 series sweep by the Tricolors in NZ, the last time NZ lost in a Series at home. Also the same series when Laurie Mains selected Jonah Lomu from being a loose-fwd for Counties to being a winger against the best backs in the World, France. He lasted 1 Test before being dropped. He was also only a last-minute selection for the following 1995 RWC squad. The rest, as they say, is history.
6 Oct 2008, 19:21 pm
#51 NZINCHINA:
the tackle on BOD was no less than shameful, lets not let patriotism get in the way of logic here. But the Brits made the mistake of blaming Umaga – thats what happens when you hire a Govt Spin Doctor on a rugby tour – when it was clearly Mealamu who did the lifting and the driving. It was a thuggish tackle, off the ball and after that phase. Mealamu should have atleast been cited, not Umaga, but to any objective eye he should have received a RC. Either way the Blacks would still have won despite the incident being in the opening minutes. That Lions team was woeful or, as Sir Clivey put it “something special is about to happen here”. Oh yes Clive, you were right for once !
6 Oct 2008, 19:34 pm
#65 BlackPanther: yada yada, didn’t you fall out with them about nuclear testing? didn’t Laporte call McCaw a cheat? all this pro-French nonsense seems like a cover for your anti-English sentiment. I don’t your team were ever good enough to win a RWC, just like France putty up front. Strange you claim to know so much about Euro rugby but didn’t know the EDF is a tertiary tournament and that Cipriani is a European champion.
#68 BlackPanther: It was both of them, its quite clear.And yes it was shameful both of them should’ve been banned for 6months minimum.
#66 BlackPanther: Strange how you criticise Jones yet he is an award winning rugby writer who does article for the top paper in the country just as you slate Wayne Barnes despite him being one of the best refs in the world. lose the bias and ex-pat emotion and maybe someone will take you seriously.
6 Oct 2008, 19:35 pm
Good evening.
6 Oct 2008, 20:02 pm
#69 Big Hit:
Nuclear Testing ? – shucks, here was stoopid little ole me thinking we were talking rugby, not International politics.
NZ is the 1st name on the RWC, check it out you dimwit.
England has never beaten NZ at a RWC. Nor for that matter as any British or Irish team.
Who said I didnt know about EDF tournament ? oh – you.
Who said I didnt know Cipriani wasnt in the Wasps squad when they won the HCup ? oh – you, again. All I said was he has only had 1 full season for Wasps.
Yes, your allegiance to Jones is clear. Its like the blog-version of Joness articles. Biased and subjective to the point of the ridiculous and, therefore, no credibility. He has figured out early controversy sells papers, esp in the internet/World medium. How pathetic.
Wayne Barnes as being one of the best refs in the World – on the basis of what ? He was in his 20′s and had NEVER refereed an International before February 07 (ie 7mths prior to RWC 07). On what basis he was given the match between the TriN Champions (and RWC favourites) and the 6N Champions (and RWC Hosts) is beyond any reasonable comprehension. Chris White was clearly the better option, a good ref if not 1 of the best. Barnes was clearly out of his depth, only you bitter Jones-disciples see it any other way. Oh tee-hee, lets mock the Kiwis and ignore a referee of unfathomable incompetence.
6 Oct 2008, 23:25 pm
Big Hit
You were all over the place on these posts.One minute you are sayin Capriani is better than DC,then further on in the thread while Panther was cutting you up you were saying that Capriani might be better than DC but we just have to wait.
Big Hit,this thread has made you look like a real plonker,by the way its getting close to the one year when England were kicked out of the RWC like NZ
6 Oct 2008, 23:31 pm
#71 BlackPanther:
I really enjoy your posts by the way.
You say it as you see it,and the way you see it is more realistic than the way Big Hit sees it.Obviously you use 2 eyes,instead of Big Hit aka “The Cyclops”
7 Oct 2008, 05:47 am
#55 BlackPanther:
Damn but you are funny when you get on a roll
I have come across a bizarre little “statistica obscura” in which I believe Cipriani & Carter may indeed be equals
I must preface this information with the acknowledgement that as your statistical knowledge is clearly of a far superior depth than mine you may want to verify with your own sources … Anyway … here goes … nothing ventured, nothing gained … according to my informant, who wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons – they both wear boots when playing rugby, two of them in fact. Please do not hold me to this, as stipulated previously, this is NOT a confirmed fact, merely an allegation. Phew … big risk putting that kind of dodgy little unsubstantiated factoid out there … might not be true … how embarrassing 
7 Oct 2008, 11:39 am
#74 Rugby_Princess:
there is also an unconfirmed and seemingly outrageous rumour that both of them might be human and, therefore, prone to error. Eeek !
8 Oct 2008, 05:11 am
#75 BlackPanther:
Noooo
My source maintains that the latest “plasma” test on Carter was performed to specifically verify he could be categorised as human
The triple checked (trust but verify) results clearly support this supposition showing he is now 51.38% human & so Biggles contestation that Dan enjoys an unfair advantage has no merit & therefore will not be entertained by the IRB despite poor old Biggles protestations for an investigation 
There is also a story (of dubious veracity) doing to rounds that DC’s poor kicking performance at Newlands was merely a feint to support the notion that he was indeed “one of us” until the human component of his molten-magma-plasma could be nudged above the 50% mark
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