Kelleher backs Carter’s French fling
6 Oct 2008
Former All Blacks scrumhalf Byron Kelleher believes Dan Carter’s spell at French Top 14 side Perpignan will make him a better player.
Carter has signed a short-term contract with Perpignan and Kelleher, in his second season with Toulouse, believes the experience will invigorate him.
“I’ve wound him up about having to learn Catalan and how the French will welcome him at the bottom of a ruck,” Kelleher told the Daily Telegraph. “It is a great move for Dan and will give him a fresh rugby and mental perspective to take back to New Zealand.”
Kelleher had a successful first season with the southern France club, winning the Player of the Year award, and seems to have carried that form into the 2008/09 season.
76 Comments
6 Oct 2008, 08:22 am
DragonCarter.
6 Oct 2008, 08:23 am
Cheetah Champ is ‘n stadige draak
6 Oct 2008, 08:43 am
can he get any better??? bliksem man…..he is already upstaging superman and spiderman and all the rest…..
6 Oct 2008, 08:54 am
#2 Koos: Dammit jy’s reg. Ek is.
How is this for an “Unavailable All Black” Side. If they played in the Tri Nations they would probably have ended second !
15 – Nick Evans
14 – Rico Gear
13 – McAlister
12 – Mauger
11 – Doug Howlett
10 – Glen Jackson / Dan Carter
9 – Kelleher
8 – Xavier Rush
7- Jerry Collins
6 – Marty Hollah / Braid
5 – Chris Jack
4 – Cant think of someone now. Flavell?
3 – Carl Hayman
2 – Anton Oliver
1 – Tamoupeaou (cant spell his damn name)
Then there is still okes like Tuitupo lying around !! Hate to say it, but Kiwis have unbelievable depth.
6 Oct 2008, 08:58 am
Until Kelleher returns to super 14 and realises he is still **** and it was just the lower level that is making him look good.
6 Oct 2008, 09:53 am
#4 Cheetha Champs: a lot of those players have looked ordinary in NH rugby, only a couple of standouts
#5 Sonito: He’s playing for the best team in the league (perhaps in Europe) so his ride is that much easier
6 Oct 2008, 10:17 am
#6 Big Hit:
God you talk some *%* … According to you most are “ordinary” & the ones that aren’t merely shine because they are surrounded by stars
6 Oct 2008, 10:31 am
#7 Rugby_Princess: well its true. The guys who have shone are Kelleher and Howlett and they are in the two strongest teams in Europe, Munster and Toulouse (the European Cup finalists). Of the rest only McAlister has stood out and credit to him for doing so.
6 Oct 2008, 10:55 am
#8 Big Hit:
Maybe they are playing in the only two teams who can keep up ?
Look, not saying every kiwi export is great – just saying you are harping on the other end of the scale & that is not true either.
Clearly you missed the class on the art of compromise at the charm school you attended
6 Oct 2008, 11:01 am
#9 Rugby_Princess: except I wasn’t harping on the other end of the scale. I said they were ordinary and didn’t stand out, not that they were poor. Many just do a job without excelling.
6 Oct 2008, 11:12 am
always hated this Byron boy..attitude annoyed me.
an assh*le if ever saw one
6 Oct 2008, 11:14 am
#10 Big Hit:
Sorry, don’t buy that – it really would cause you physical injury to compliment an NZer wouldn’t it ?
6 Oct 2008, 11:18 am
#9 Rugby_Princess:
He (Big-oted ) carries a bitter heart and has only contempt for all things Kiwi.
You are a little more diplomatic than myself Your Highness.
6 Oct 2008, 11:22 am
#13 cane:
How are you handsome ?
6 Oct 2008, 11:25 am
#12 Rugby_Princess: I complimented McAlister. He has shown his worth at a middle of the road club. Rumour has it he’s in contract negotiations to stay on for another couple of seasons.
6 Oct 2008, 11:25 am
#13 cane: lighten up son
6 Oct 2008, 11:35 am
#16 Big Hit:
” lighten up son”..
.
Why?
6 Oct 2008, 11:38 am
#17 cane: because life’s too short to be miserable
6 Oct 2008, 11:39 am
just think, its a whole 365 days since NZ were knocked out of the RWC, its getting further and further away and the next one is coming closer. Cause for joy, no?
6 Oct 2008, 11:43 am
#18 Big Hit:
Life’s too short not to speak your mind.
8)
6 Oct 2008, 11:44 am
#15 Big Hit:
Probably the least praise worthy of almost all of them
#19 Big Hit:
I see you are channelling Stephen Jones today
6 Oct 2008, 11:50 am
#20 cane:
That is assuming of course you have enough to spare a bit
6 Oct 2008, 11:50 am
#21 Rugby_Princess: I’m trying to be positive for you pair of misery guts. Just back on topic, its noticeable that many of the Nz imports who do really well up north are actually ignored by the ABs such as Glen Jackson and Riki Flutey who outperform their more vaunted international counterparts like Aaron Mauger and Carlos Spencer.
6 Oct 2008, 11:56 am
#23 Big Hit:
Hey who is a “misery guts” & is there really any need for name calling ? I think not !
Good God, who you comparing to Carlos Spencer ? Is old Carlo still even playing ? Heavens to Besty
What did you team take away from tour down under other than the obvious – police reports ?
How is JW doing these days ? Up & about again is he ? Do you think he will be fit for the AB EOYT tour ? I am sure there a plenty of lads looking forward to welcoming him back
6 Oct 2008, 12:09 pm
#24 Rugby_Princess: I just watched the Wilkinson incident, he was bridging at a ruck and the offside fullback thought it would be funny to lie on his supporting leg. Dislocated kneecap and torn muscle around it. He won’t be playing before Christmas.
I was comparing Glen Jackson to Carlos Spencer, the former outperforming the latter in the NH despite never becoming an All Black.
Danny Cipriani will in all likelihood be facing off against Dan Carter. He may well be better than him already.
6 Oct 2008, 13:03 pm
Hey, BIG ****/BIG ***
are you doing cipriani now or are you still stuck with wilkinson?
6 Oct 2008, 13:21 pm
#25 Big Hit:
Cipriani better than DC alreasy – God I love you sense of humour
Do me a favour & look up he Jackson & Spencer’s respective ages will you ?
6 Oct 2008, 13:44 pm
#27 Rugby_Princess: alreasy fo’ cheezy
6 Oct 2008, 14:06 pm
#27 Rugby_Princess:
You know what I meant you cheeky Pom !
6 Oct 2008, 15:53 pm
#25 Big Hit:
Who cares he’s past it anyway, was never that good. Why don’t you stick to something your qualified to comment on like pub darts / fighting or shagging cheap north east slags like your sister.
6 Oct 2008, 15:57 pm
#30 NZINCHINA: I agree Carlos Spencer was never that good
6 Oct 2008, 16:37 pm
#23 Big Hit:
the Big Twit at it again.
this is the same Twit who has previously said Hayman had been woeful at Newcastle. Well Newcastle are woeful but, lets think again, its probably all Haymans fault…
Hayman is THE best tighthead in the World because he has proved that again and again. I recall the Twickenham match 3 (?) years ago when Sheridan was labelled by Big Twit and other whining Brit journos as going to show Hayman “a lesson”. Well Sheridan had ONE cap at the time, Hayman about 35 ! I had front row seats at HQ and Hayman p*ssed on Sheridan, it was a no-contest.
And Os du Randt rated him head’n'shoulders over everyone over the past 4 years, so who to believe…..
Chris Jack is playing well at Sarries, esp going on the 2 games at Vicarage Rd Ive attended. In fact Eddie Moans has so much faith in him (or is it so little in the others ?) that Jack has even started games at blindside. Jack has also had to overcome a hand-injury which halted his 1st season. Or, as Big Twit would tell you, he “wasnt selected”.
Nick Evans has received rave reviews at Quins who are sitting 2nd in the Premiership with Evans pulling the strings. He has received no less than glowing praise. Or, as Big Twit would tell you, he has “been anonymous”.
Marty Holah has been in great form for Ospreys and is picked for all the big games. Ospreys are by far the best Welsh side despite being hampered by the overrated Henson and his hairdos. Oh, yep, Henson is also ‘the best inside centre in the World’ according to S.Jones. So JdV and Mauger and MacAlister should take some notes.
Mauger is Captain at Leicester. Gee, he must be playing poorly to be picked as Captain, especially as Tigers remain 2nd= on the table and are winning tough matches away.
Xavier Rush, no NZers’ 1st/2nd/3rd choice as an AB, is considered 1st among equals at Cardiff and they coerced him in to signing a further contract to keep him for the remainder of his career.
Anton Oliver is now a student at Oxford University having quit his final year at Toulon where he helped them to promotion to the French Top 14.
Kelleher was recently named as the Best Player in France.
Howlett has been in superb form for Munster. Altho he would be given that he’s playing outside that most mecurial of flyhalfs (*cough* ~splutter~) Ronan O’Gara (who Big Twits hero, S.Jones, recently rated far superior to Dan Carter – HA !!!)
MacAlister has been influential in every match for Sale whether in terms of making breaks or his kicking.
Rico Gear struggles to get selected at Worcester who compete with Bristol as the lamest of the lame teams in the Premiership. He has also been struggling with injuries. Altho, unlike Big Twit, I think most of us have already had beeter chance to assess his skill level previously. If there is a better winger at Worcester then he is yet to show why.
As for Glen Jackson and Riki Flutey succeeding up north, well thats because the opposition doesnt – how shall we say – stack up ! Good solid players they do the percentages well. And thats all you have to do up north, the percentages. Houggard will indeed be a Star up here whereas the Safas know he could only take them so far.
I also like the way the Brits have been blaming the current English rugby season – it has been of dire quality – on the ELVs. The ELVs, that is, denuded of the main thrust heaped on the TriN in that there are no ‘short-arm’ pens etc. Also, apparently, on the decreasing gates. Oh, I know they would otherwise have you believe that stadiums are SO full here that they struggle to accomodate all the fans and they love to talk about the expotential growth of their game while mocking at gates in NZ/Aus. Well, a little context never goes astray now does it…. when I arrived in UK 15years ago, 1st Division matches generally got 500-1500 people with Leicester/Gloucester/Bath and Northampton being the exceptions. So the fact that figures over the professional years (helped by the introduction of all these ‘average’ stars from NZ/Aus/SA) has grown from 1-man-and-his-dog to 5-10,000 has allowed the Big Twits of this World to get up on their soap-boxes and talk gleefully about ‘growth’ – from what, zero ?!. The truth is a little less rosey – Sale/Newcastle/Saracens/Worcester/Bristol all now regularly play to crowd in the 2-5,000 region. So this equates roughly to the ‘dwindling’ crowds in the Air NZ Cup (effectively 3rd-tier rugby in NZ).
And the much-derided Super14. Well in NZ & Aus they still get 20,000+ and in SA the crowds are often 30,000+.
Its called ‘context’.
So let them continue to pull the wool all they like if it amuses them. Apparently ‘all’ the NZ players here are average/woeful. And all the stadiums are packed.
Yeah, right.
6 Oct 2008, 16:46 pm
#32 BlackPanther: Be serious and at least try to be accurate.
Hayman has been a disappointment at Newcastle, everyone’s wondering why they spent so much on him when he’s had so little influence. Jack can’t even take a 2nd row spot at Saracens and as you say has been injured for most of last season. Evans is injured, as per usual having only played one game. Corry is captain at Leicester, Mauger was made captain for a game or two but was generally awful last season. Gear is average. So all in all, the All Blacks haven’t fared well with only McAlister really excelling in the GP.
Your stats on attendances are wrong too and the SH players are only a mere part of the reason for the growth of the game, the main reason was the success of the England team between 2000-2003 and again in 2007 when they reached a place no current All Black has gone before, the RWC final
6 Oct 2008, 16:51 pm
#33 Big Hit:
The official crowd stats from England were posted here a few weeks ago, would you like me to re post them?
6 Oct 2008, 16:54 pm
has there ever been a bigger bulsHITter than this guy ?
‘crowds’ are dwindling ? gee, Suncorp was full on the w/e. 58,000 fans treated royally to a magnificent match.
When I was back in NZ a few weeks ago, I watched Counties vs Auckland in front of 11,000 fans. Lets not forget that the NPC is now Tier 3 rugby behind International and S14.
and if you wish, by all means follow Big Twit on his ‘Everything in the North is better’ campaign. Well I live in UK and the reality is so much different. Lets just check todays papers quickly….
Wasps, the team ‘full of England Internationals and perrenial challengers of trophys’ ? they played at home in front of 7,668 fans. And many of those tickets are giveaways (I know because I recived some thru kids school)
Newcastle vs Northhampton ? – hero Jonny W making his comeback vs one of the biggest clubs in Eng ? attendance = 4,602. More people turn up to watch school 1st XV games in NZ !
Harlequins vs Bristol ? biggest club in London full of Kiwis/Safas/Aussies filling their retirement funds ? 9,214
Bath vs Gloucester is the biggest derby match in the English premiership season by far – how many think that was important ? 10,600.
and the biggest crowd across the border ? (Llanelli) Scarlets vs Connacht – 6,041
If you WANT to believe Big Twit by all means do. He’d like to think every crowd in England was like the promotional games put on by Stade Francais (they give away 40,000 tix and play in PINK !) or by Toulouse. But dont forget Stade and Toulouse are effectively 1-city teams and have owners rich enough they make Toulon look like paupers.
Like it or not Big Twit, the ONLY reason Kiwis/Aussies/Safas go to England to play their footy is because the dosh is bigger. Thats why Im here too. But dont for a minute let him preach about how the game is ‘growing’ up here or that the rugby is ‘better’. The rugby is DIRE and the crowds reflect that. I coach kids at Junoir level and their parents have no idea about which players are at which clubs because they simply dont attend club games. They watch England games, maybe even go to Twickenham, but thats it
6 Oct 2008, 16:55 pm
#34 NZINCHINA: the crowd stats were in the paper the other day. I don’t believe huge crowds were ever claimed in the GP, the Top 14 in France however is another story. What is clear is that the game and attendances are growing steadily in the NH even through difficult economic times and the clubs have rich backers (including those from the SH in Saracens case) capable of buying almost whoever they please.
6 Oct 2008, 16:56 pm
#36 Big Hit:
Read post 35 you farking clown.
6 Oct 2008, 16:56 pm
#35 NZINCHINA: I thought you were in China bro?
6 Oct 2008, 16:57 pm
Were you one of the 4,062 that watched Newcastle, mate your full of ****.
6 Oct 2008, 17:05 pm
#33 Big Hit:
so my stats on attanedances are wrong huh ?
from todays papers:-
Worcester vs L.Irish – 5,600
Bristol vs N’hampton – 6,200
Sale vs Cardiff – 7,400
Gloucester vs Wasps – 7,800
So youre right, in fact, Big Twit. Where I indicated that N’hampton, Leicester and Gloucester could muster large (ie 10k+) crowds, I was being inadvertently kind. In the most recent round of Air NZ Cup on the same w/e, even minnows Tasman vs Manawatu had bigger gates than that. In fact, there were 2nd Div (‘Heartland’) NZ games with bigger gates !
So Hayman, at prop, was supposed to turn perennial losers, Newcastle, in to World-beaters ? Oh, but since Jonny can supposedly beat teams all on his lonesome, why did they need anyone let alone a tighthead ? I suggest the ‘everyone’ in your analysis should drop the ‘every’ for sake of accuracy. How many of their best players did Newcastle lose last year – Toby Flood, Matt Tait, and a couple of forwards ?! and yet, tightheads are expected to turn water in to whine….
Gee amazing how Leicester, the most traditional of English clubs, went ahead and appointed a player who was “awful” as their Captain (stand-in or not).
All those Quins fans I know have been praising Evans to the hilt. Crickey, what would THEY know ?!
Big Twit, every example of hypocricy will eventually be revealed for the sham that you are. But please, go ahead, continue to make a complete twit of yourself, its fun for the rest of us.
6 Oct 2008, 17:06 pm
Rapid Guinness Premiership attendance growth drives record revenues
The latest research by the Sports Business Group at Deloitte, the business advisory firm, shows that rugby union’s Guinness Premiership is enjoying one of the highest rates of match attendance growth of any major UK sports competition. This, in turn, is driving record revenues. The average attendance at a Premiership match this season was over 11,000, nearly 3,000 above the average five years ago. This represents an average annual growth rate of 7% over the period. These increases have been the major contributor to Premiership club revenue growth which reached £85m in 2005/06, an increase of £30m since 2001/02.
Deloitte’s Guinness Premiership key findings:
Average per match attendances in 2006/07 of 11,117 equates to an average annual growth rate of 7% over the past five years.
Attendance increases have been a major contributor to Premiership club revenue growth which last season reached £85m, an increase of £30m since 2001/02.
Since 1996/97, the first full season of professional rugby in England, the average match attendance has more than doubled from 4,600 to over 11,000.
Total attendances passed 1.5 million in 2006/07.
Half of the Premiership’s 12 clubs had a capacity utilisation of over 90% in 2006/07, indicating that clubs’ current stadium capacities may be restricting further growth. Several clubs have plans to expand their existing facilities, as can be seen in the table below.
6 Oct 2008, 17:06 pm
#40 BlackPanther:
Huge crowds the atmosphere must be electric.
6 Oct 2008, 17:10 pm
#41 Big Hit:
So essentially nobody watches rugby in England.
6 Oct 2008, 17:11 pm
is Big Hit ok??????? he talks some sense sometimes but sometimes its just kak.cipriani better than DC please im sure you were kidding mate so il let it go
6 Oct 2008, 17:21 pm
#44 kace:
dont forget, Big Twits idol S.Jones called Cipriani (3 Tests, 18pts) already better than DC (54 Tests, 825 pts). Oh and Ronan O’Gara was also seen as ‘markedly’ DCs superior (hey YOU AT THE BACK – try to contain your laughter !).
The Poms love this tactic of trying to pull the wool over the naive antipodeans eyes with layers and reems of bullsh*t. Then if/when they get found out they call it ‘irony’ as if we dont have a grip on that either.
Whatever **** he’s given you above, Ive got my stats directly from todays UK newspaper. Like I said, if you start off with crowds of 500 then 7% growth is achieved by men bringing BOTH dogs.
6 Oct 2008, 17:28 pm
#40 BlackPanther: you do realise these were in the EDF Cup (a tertiary competition) and not the Guinness Premiership? attendances are higher for GP and Heineken Cup games as I’m sure you’re aware.
#44 kace: have you ever seen Cipriani play? I was actually teasing joking but I don’t think he’s far off and many of the scribes up here reckon he’s on that level already.
6 Oct 2008, 17:34 pm
#45 BlackPanther: If you want to rank players on tests/points scored no one touches Wilkinson but I think you’ll agree thats quite a stupid way of arguing. 7% per year is quite a growth rate given S14 audiences and viewing figures are heading in the opposite direction. John Smit himself said there was no need for ELVs in Europe as the stadiums are packed, I suppose you’re going to call him a liar too but then I guess most of you did when he was spear tackled.
6 Oct 2008, 17:36 pm
#47 Big Hit:
Does the stadium at Newcastle have a capacity of 4,062?
6 Oct 2008, 17:40 pm
The best spear tackle was on the Irish clown, when we white washed the kittens in 2005.
6 Oct 2008, 17:42 pm
#49 NZINCHINA: just made everyone laugh all the harder at the World Cup this day last year, justice was served
6 Oct 2008, 17:43 pm
#50 Big Hit:
Was a great tackle on the kittens captain though.
6 Oct 2008, 17:45 pm
#46 Big Hit:
oh, lets not split hairs. Funny, he of the broad-sweeping statements is suddenly moved to facts and accuracy ? Your bullsh*tting days over already ?! Lets just say Im “aware” alright.
So Premiership crowds from 2 weeks ago ?
Wasps – the reigning Champions – could only muster 7,600
Newcastle vs N’hampton – 4,000
Quins v Bristol – 9,000
ooh yes, silly me – MUCH bigger crowd in the Premiership !
and last week there was an article by Twits quoted ‘scribes’ as saying the Magners League was “the Best in World rugby”. Try to contain yourselves, because the ‘scribe’ was trying a moment of seriousness – he based this on the “wealth” of foreigners who are bringing class to the competition. In support he quoted ‘International stars’ like John Arlidge. Arlidge, another Glen Jackson, who played for Auckland/Northland but was quickly discarded because all he could do was kick.
I still love the one about Cirpriani and O’Gara being superior players to DC. Now that IS hilarious. Has there ever been a more 1-dimensional flyhalf than O’Gara ?
6 Oct 2008, 17:50 pm
#32 BlackPanther: man u nailed it what a good read
6 Oct 2008, 17:53 pm
#52 BlackPanther: so you quote Wasps who don’t have a permanent home and are hoping to relocate soon and Newcastle one of the smallest attendances in the GP. You talk about a NZ/Aus final having 58,000 but look at the Guinness Premiership final attendance of 82,000 between two club teams. I suppose you don’t think thats impressive either. O’Gara actually outplayed Carter for most of the Ire/Nz game this year. Whether you consider him one-dimensional is another matter, he’s a double European champion. I agree the Magners league is poor but only because they field second teams.
6 Oct 2008, 17:53 pm
#47 Big Hit:
I agree, you cant compare players on stats alone. But Im not sure what we are supposed to be comparing Cipriani and DC on.
Let me see
Cipriani has had 1 incomplete season for Wasps and is 20yrs old. He won 1 Premiershiptitle with Wasps.
DC has been in the ABs since he was 20yrs. He has won a multitude of NPC, S12/14 and TriN titles. He has 1 Grand Slam under his belt (and counting) and he was the best player vs Lions ’05. He was the best player for ABs in TriN ’08 – bar possibly McCaw – even when the ABs lost.
So Im at a loss as to how to compare these 2 players, because to the neutral eye its, um…….what theyve produced, and how influential they have been in teams results.
So Cipriani gets bonus points for scoring Kelly Brook ? otherwise, what else have we got to go on ?
6 Oct 2008, 17:54 pm
#32 BlackPanther: why make excuses about the opposition for Jackson and Flutey succeeding up north where ABs like Mauger and Gear look ordinary? surely its the same opposition?
6 Oct 2008, 17:56 pm
#55 BlackPanther: Cipriani has had two seasons with Wasps and won the European cup playing at 15 when he was 19 years old. His one international start he was close to MOTM. I’m not saying he’s better, but he is quicker and he is arguably a more exciting player than Carter. But I’m willing to wait and see on this one.
6 Oct 2008, 18:08 pm
#54 Big Hit:
forgive me for not placing as much weight on Heinken Cup victories as you do. Altho youve been noted as stating S14 as a non-competition. Why ? Well, its the fashion innit.
Magners League is not ‘poor’, its horrendous ! Take out Munster and Ospreys and the remainder would struggle to compete in the Heartland trophy (NZ Div II). Connacht, Ulster, Glasgow, Newport – these teams are seriously below-par !
The Premiership is no more than a grind. It was and remains 10-man rugby. The sooner they embrace rugby in Summer and conditions and attitudes improve with it, the better. Rico Gear doesnt shine at Worcester, Twit, because he doesnt receive the ball.
Top 14 rugby in France IS the real deal. I watch it every week and the games are fast, skillful and passionate. But their crowds are over-inflated by gimmicks (Stades new jersey is not pink anymore, its an Andy Warhol-type pop-art moment of multi-colours), giveaways and players receiving telephone number salaries not reflecting crowd numbers. Toulon, for example, have a 10mEuro+ budget yet still only pull crowds at home of 10-12,000.
6 Oct 2008, 18:11 pm
#46 Big Hit: yes i reside in leeds and i watch most of the guiness premership matches he is a talent much like ryan lamb but has a long way to get to DCs level let alone surpass it
6 Oct 2008, 18:13 pm
#56 Big Hit:
Flutey gets rave reviews here because the Poms suddenly realised they could ‘buy’ him. He does nothing starry for Wasps, just does the basics well. No more, no less.
Flutey, Vainikolo, Stevens, Perrywater, van Gisenberg, Allot, Catt….
30% more senior registered players than NZ and STILL they need to BUY their team. How sad. Atleast the Kiwis have the decency to educate their Polynesian brothers 1st.
6 Oct 2008, 18:34 pm
#59 kace: he’s much better than Ryan Lamb who can’t even secure his place in the Gloucester team. You can’t really compare the two. Maybe Cipriani is not on Carter’s level but we’ll soon find out.
#60 BlackPanther: Flutey got player of the year ahead of McAlister and numerous other top players, he was excellent, there’s no denying it. The registered players stat is misleading as most are amateur and don’t take the game seriously. Better to look at the schoolboy figure where most players are signed from. Also most of the players you mention had an english parent.
#58 BlackPanther: I never said the S14 was a non-competition, I think its on a similar level to the HEC. I didn’t boast about attendances but I will defend a point if you’re going to mislead. Those Magners teams are below par, I’m not arguing but Leinster, Munster, Ospreys and Edinburgh are competitive. Also Worcester play expansive rugby, if you actually watched some GP you’d know this. Wasps, Harlequins, Bath and London Irish also play wide rugby.
6 Oct 2008, 18:38 pm
#58 BlackPanther: Btw Top 14 sides regularly get dominated in Europe by GP teams who’ve won more European Cups and European Challenge Cups. You just prefer their rugby because its more like Aus/Nz rugby.
6 Oct 2008, 18:47 pm
#61 Big Hit:
pull the other leg – Flutey is a Maori. Vainikolo a Tongan. Perrywater is born in NZ and plucked from obscurity in France. van Gisenberg qualified only via residency. And if youre relying on the rest having an English parent, then go ahead, embarrass yourself in the doing.
You have repeatedly discounted S14 as a competition of any value. Why not – thats what your journos are telling you to think, arent they ?!
Edinburgh ? I think you mean theyre competitve COMPARED to what they were. They are distinctly average in every other respect. Ive seen them play, live, and it aint pretty.
I actually DO watch GP and I coach at a English ex-GP club. In England they coach players to go-to-ground in the tackle, in NZ its about staying on your feet. Enough said.
6 Oct 2008, 18:57 pm
#63 BlackPanther: Freshwater’s Dad is English, Hartley has an English parent, Catt too and Stevens. Van Gibergen had a whole 1 cap as sub I believe. I don’t see how its embarrassing. I haven’t said anything bad about the S14, its a competition I enjoy. I think you read too much Stephen Jones, he compares it to basketball. What I don’t get is, if you don’t like these journos why do you read their articles?
6 Oct 2008, 19:02 pm
#62 Big Hit:
Correct. Its all in the attitude – we respect the French in every rugby way because they play rugby, with expression and personality, the way it should be played. Thats why when we lose to them in a 1-off RWC match, we dont see it as ‘choke’, we see them as an imposing opposition who can be dangerous on any given day despite previous history. France are NZs nemesis. It has been this way, always, and will continue to be. 1979 (Bastille Day @ EP). 1984 ‘the try from the end of the Earth’ (@ EP). 1999 RWC Semi. 2007 RWC Qter. I have been there for all of them and my respect is endless.
And Ive been in UK 15years, have watched oodles of GP and European rugby and feel qualified to speak about UK rugby. Ive been to many games at Wasps from Loftus Rd days to H.Wycombe, so also feel qualified to comment on Cipriani. Which is why you preaching to the less-well-informed is hilarious. Your ability to bullsh*t knows no bounds.
6 Oct 2008, 19:09 pm
#64 Big Hit:
for the sheer hypocritical enjoyment of it all ! If ever there was a journo who has comprimised his credibility, then it is he. And you just lap it all up, some of your entries are almost word-for-word.
6 Oct 2008, 19:13 pm
#65 BlackPanther:
correction – 1994 ‘the try from the end of the Earth’. The 2-0 series sweep by the Tricolors in NZ, the last time NZ lost in a Series at home. Also the same series when Laurie Mains selected Jonah Lomu from being a loose-fwd for Counties to being a winger against the best backs in the World, France. He lasted 1 Test before being dropped. He was also only a last-minute selection for the following 1995 RWC squad. The rest, as they say, is history.
6 Oct 2008, 19:21 pm
#51 NZINCHINA:
the tackle on BOD was no less than shameful, lets not let patriotism get in the way of logic here. But the Brits made the mistake of blaming Umaga – thats what happens when you hire a Govt Spin Doctor on a rugby tour – when it was clearly Mealamu who did the lifting and the driving. It was a thuggish tackle, off the ball and after that phase. Mealamu should have atleast been cited, not Umaga, but to any objective eye he should have received a RC. Either way the Blacks would still have won despite the incident being in the opening minutes. That Lions team was woeful or, as Sir Clivey put it “something special is about to happen here”. Oh yes Clive, you were right for once !
6 Oct 2008, 19:34 pm
#65 BlackPanther: yada yada, didn’t you fall out with them about nuclear testing? didn’t Laporte call McCaw a cheat? all this pro-French nonsense seems like a cover for your anti-English sentiment. I don’t your team were ever good enough to win a RWC, just like France putty up front. Strange you claim to know so much about Euro rugby but didn’t know the EDF is a tertiary tournament and that Cipriani is a European champion.
#68 BlackPanther: It was both of them, its quite clear.And yes it was shameful both of them should’ve been banned for 6months minimum.
#66 BlackPanther: Strange how you criticise Jones yet he is an award winning rugby writer who does article for the top paper in the country just as you slate Wayne Barnes despite him being one of the best refs in the world. lose the bias and ex-pat emotion and maybe someone will take you seriously.
6 Oct 2008, 19:35 pm
Good evening.
6 Oct 2008, 20:02 pm
#69 Big Hit:
Nuclear Testing ? – shucks, here was stoopid little ole me thinking we were talking rugby, not International politics.
NZ is the 1st name on the RWC, check it out you dimwit.
England has never beaten NZ at a RWC. Nor for that matter as any British or Irish team.
Who said I didnt know about EDF tournament ? oh – you.
Who said I didnt know Cipriani wasnt in the Wasps squad when they won the HCup ? oh – you, again. All I said was he has only had 1 full season for Wasps.
Yes, your allegiance to Jones is clear. Its like the blog-version of Joness articles. Biased and subjective to the point of the ridiculous and, therefore, no credibility. He has figured out early controversy sells papers, esp in the internet/World medium. How pathetic.
Wayne Barnes as being one of the best refs in the World – on the basis of what ? He was in his 20′s and had NEVER refereed an International before February 07 (ie 7mths prior to RWC 07). On what basis he was given the match between the TriN Champions (and RWC favourites) and the 6N Champions (and RWC Hosts) is beyond any reasonable comprehension. Chris White was clearly the better option, a good ref if not 1 of the best. Barnes was clearly out of his depth, only you bitter Jones-disciples see it any other way. Oh tee-hee, lets mock the Kiwis and ignore a referee of unfathomable incompetence.
6 Oct 2008, 23:25 pm
Big Hit
You were all over the place on these posts.One minute you are sayin Capriani is better than DC,then further on in the thread while Panther was cutting you up you were saying that Capriani might be better than DC but we just have to wait.
Big Hit,this thread has made you look like a real plonker,by the way its getting close to the one year when England were kicked out of the RWC like NZ
6 Oct 2008, 23:31 pm
#71 BlackPanther:
I really enjoy your posts by the way.
You say it as you see it,and the way you see it is more realistic than the way Big Hit sees it.Obviously you use 2 eyes,instead of Big Hit aka “The Cyclops”
7 Oct 2008, 05:47 am
#55 BlackPanther:
Damn but you are funny when you get on a roll
I have come across a bizarre little “statistica obscura” in which I believe Cipriani & Carter may indeed be equals
I must preface this information with the acknowledgement that as your statistical knowledge is clearly of a far superior depth than mine you may want to verify with your own sources … Anyway … here goes … nothing ventured, nothing gained … according to my informant, who wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons – they both wear boots when playing rugby, two of them in fact. Please do not hold me to this, as stipulated previously, this is NOT a confirmed fact, merely an allegation. Phew … big risk putting that kind of dodgy little unsubstantiated factoid out there … might not be true … how embarrassing 
7 Oct 2008, 11:39 am
#74 Rugby_Princess:
there is also an unconfirmed and seemingly outrageous rumour that both of them might be human and, therefore, prone to error. Eeek !
8 Oct 2008, 05:11 am
#75 BlackPanther:
Noooo
My source maintains that the latest “plasma” test on Carter was performed to specifically verify he could be categorised as human
The triple checked (trust but verify) results clearly support this supposition showing he is now 51.38% human & so Biggles contestation that Dan enjoys an unfair advantage has no merit & therefore will not be entertained by the IRB despite poor old Biggles protestations for an investigation 
There is also a story (of dubious veracity) doing to rounds that DC’s poor kicking performance at Newlands was merely a feint to support the notion that he was indeed “one of us” until the human component of his molten-magma-plasma could be nudged above the 50% mark
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