Edwards: Blacks are the best
18 Nov 2008
Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards believes the All Blacks are the benchmark in world rugby, not the Springboks.
Despite the Boks being crowned world champions a little over a year ago, they have not done much in 2008 to strengthen their claim as the world’s best team. Apart from their win over the All Blacks in Dunedin and a 53-8 hiding over the Wallabies, the rest of the performances have been sub-standard, while the last couple of scratchy wins over Wales and Scotland have done little to enhance their reputation.
However, they have managed to beat Wales three times this year (and once after the World Cup at the back-end of last year), but Edwards believes the All Blacks hold the mantle as the game’s leading nation.
“Throughout history, they [New Zealand] are the standard-bearers for the game,” said Edwards. “That’s not to say that the northern hemisphere teams can’t beat them at certain times.
“They are probably the most respected name in world rugby, and the ultimate challenge I suppose is to play against the All Blacks.”
Edwards continued to wax lyrical about the All Blacks on tour ahead of their Test at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday.
“This current crop of players they’ve got are up there with the tradition of the past of the All Blacks. Their aggression at the breakdown is second to none, and their scramble defence has done fantastically well,” said Edwards.
“They were totally dominant throughout the game against Ireland last Saturday – on paper, it was a very strong Ireland team.
“It’s the ultimate challenge in world rugby to play against the All Blacks, and we are looking forward to the challenge.”
89 Comments
18 Nov 2008, 09:08 am
Dragons
18 Nov 2008, 09:08 am
CYMRU Dragons!
18 Nov 2008, 09:08 am
Dragons.
18 Nov 2008, 09:09 am
Its Shaun Edwards btw. In truth Edwards just wants to beat everyone and always talks up the opposition.
18 Nov 2008, 09:09 am
# Big Hit: Big hit. Just too fast for us!!!
18 Nov 2008, 09:10 am
#5 Puma: yes this time
confident for the weekend Puma?
18 Nov 2008, 09:18 am
Throughout history, they [New Zealand] are the standard-bearers for the game
Rubbish, defintely post isolation, but not before isolation.
18 Nov 2008, 09:49 am
who cares . why quote this **** ??
18 Nov 2008, 10:00 am
he’s got a point.
18 Nov 2008, 10:13 am
#4 Big Hit:
He doesn’t need to talk up the best rugby team in the world big ***.
18 Nov 2008, 10:14 am
Nobody in his right mind would argue that they are not the benchmark side at the moment and probably have been for a while. They are the form side at the moment.
Guess what though. They don’t have the Webb Ellis. Nobody gives a continental about how many Tri Nations you win or how you do at the end of year tour.
The WC is all that counts. NZ has plundered Tonga, Figi etc. and it has got them nowhere. Henry had tears in his eyes saying he didn’t wan’t to win the WC playing the type of rugby we had played. What a load of BS. Guess what my china. Its going to happen to NZ again in 3 years. Watch Oz and SA again.
Sounds like there is a Welshman with his kop up his arlie again who can’t get over a Bok side playing badly and still giving them a PK.
Jake had a plan . We lost but improved up to WC and won. No side has won the WC and then not had a slight drop in form. I think we have had a great year. When last did we beat NZ at home?
18 Nov 2008, 10:25 am
#11 foxpox:
No your right mate the Bokke have had a great year, you got the wooden spoon in the Tri Nations again, you got beaten four times by Australia and NZ including being zeroed in your own back yard, you just beat the Welsh and needed a come from behind win to beat Scotland – great year you must be thrilled.
18 Nov 2008, 10:57 am
NZ is the greatest Rrugby nation in the world. No doubt. They can take 3 teams to the NH and hardlly forsake any quality.
But a fit and fired up best NZ 22 vs fit and fired up best Bok 22 – that’s pretty equal… and far superior to anything the rest of the world can produce
18 Nov 2008, 11:03 am
NZinChina
I am actually. Thanks for asking. Were you also one of the dudes looking shattered like Richie at the press conference with tears in his eyes trying to explain why you got given a hiding again and being sent back to Auckland for another pre-arranged ticker tape parade. That bubbly must be going off by now??
No problems. Give it that NZ are consistantly the best side. Just don’t think we have had that bad a year. SA has a problem playing so called inferior sides(no excuse) when NZ seems to wipe them out. But will take a win all the time even if its by 1 point.Granted Tri nations wasn’t the best but wasn’t the worst either. Nobody asks how many drop goals it took to win a WC. Nobody care’s. Who’s name is on the trophy. Think Dan the Man will be doing a lot of drop kicking practice in the next three year’s. Good luck to you my china but think I can hear bones already shaking as we look forward to next WC with you as over whelming favourite’s. Just don’t get too cocky. Welsh might give you a big fright.
18 Nov 2008, 11:32 am
#14 foxpox:
Mate you need to relax a little you might blow a gasket trying to convince youself about a ‘game of rugby, if you think the Bokke had a great year that’s fantastic although I’d hate to see their results in a bad year.
18 Nov 2008, 11:35 am
#7 johnnybravo:
try this Johnny.
Test Matches up untill 1990.
NZ
Played: 251, Won 179. = 71.3% wins. (plus 14 draws).
SA
Played 174, won 112. = 64.4% wins (plus 15 draws).
Post isolation……Pre isolation ….ABs #1.
18 Nov 2008, 11:42 am
#16 cane:
Would also be very interesting to look at how the stats changed dramatically head to head after neutral refs were introduced, could be a coincidence…
18 Nov 2008, 11:45 am
#11 foxpox:
Not true foxy.
The 1987 WC winning ABs…………never lost a Test Match from 87 until 1990.
The 1995 WC winning Springboks….never lost another Test Match until one year later.
18 Nov 2008, 11:54 am
#17 NZINCHINA:
It is true NZC, that the Broederbond Refs of 49 and 70 did little for our record in Africa.
18 Nov 2008, 11:56 am
#16 cane:
Whatever, I don’t believe in Stats. What I believe in is the fact that NZ could only manage a Test series victory in SA post-isolation. What I know is that even Farr-Jones after winning the WC n ’91 said, your not the best until you have beaten the Boks.
We were the benchmark, take the stats between NZ and SA and you will notice that we beat you more often pre-isolation.
18 Nov 2008, 12:02 pm
#14 foxpox:
Since when Breer Fox, is a 2 point loss to France a freaking “Hiding”.
A loss is a loss. But 2 points a hiding…….come on.
What would you call 49–0 ?
18 Nov 2008, 12:05 pm
#21 cane:
lol lol – yes the boy certainly has an interesting perspective.
18 Nov 2008, 12:09 pm
#13 seamus: A fit and fired up best NZ 22 vs fit and fired up best Bok 22 (minus political involvement) – that’s pretty equal… and far superior to anything the rest of the world can produce
18 Nov 2008, 12:09 pm
#20 johnnybravo:
You sound like the minister of health for SA.
18 Nov 2008, 12:11 pm
#20 johnnybravo:
Hey Johnny, You Okes wouldn’t let us Tour with “Players of Colour”, untill 1970.
To our eternal shame we still sent Teams….but that is another story.
In 49 you pricks even arranged for a head on Train Crash when the ABs were returning from the then Rhodesia.
18 Nov 2008, 12:13 pm
#24 NZINCHINA:
Let’s prove my point about STATS:
Ignore the overall winning percentage and go country for country. You will notice that no country beat the Bokke more than we beat them pre-isolation.
Now, is that then not the benchmark? Having a 71% winning ratio looks great, but you still lost to the Boks more than you beat them.
18 Nov 2008, 12:15 pm
#25 cane: Train Crashes? Suzy? How do you guys come up with this stuff.
18 Nov 2008, 12:17 pm
#27 It is just a game:
LOL!!!! Beautiful
18 Nov 2008, 12:17 pm
#23 It is just a game:
and always has been.
Throw in the 49 train crash, No Maori, Suzie da harlot, Broederbond Refs, Altitude……etc
And I think, pre-isolation things were pretty even.
18 Nov 2008, 12:19 pm
#29 cane: Is that offer for accomadation in your dog house still standing for WC 2011. I must come to change one of your stadium’s name.
18 Nov 2008, 12:21 pm
#26 johnnybravo:
Disagree we played far more test mateches than you and still had a superior win / loss record – AB Bokke rugby is not all that counts, your record for example against the Lions is terrible.
18 Nov 2008, 12:21 pm
#16 cane: Cane,
I bet that in SA’s absence between 1981 and when you chose to take the stats from in 1990 NZ’s %wins probably went up by about 6.9% or so.
18 Nov 2008, 12:23 pm
Just for the AB supporters, and Big Hit of course:
All Blacks coach Graham Henry’s silence over Wayne Barnes’ World Cup refereeing has paid off – he has won the prestigious World Fair Play trophy for his “exemplary attitude” following last year’s shock quarter-final loss to France.
As Henry gets set to return to Cardiff, the scene of his darkest hour, the International Committee for Fair Play (ICPF) has awarded the New Zealander their highest distinction, the prestigious Pierre de Coubertin trophy.
It is the same award All Blacks great Tana Umaga won in 2003 when he went to help unconscious Welsh loose forward Colin Charvis while the test match went on around them in Hamilton.
Henry has triumphed for very different reasons.
Barnes had a shocker that day, missing a forward pass that led to a try and failing to penalise France in the second half.
But Henry has never publicly uttered one word of criticism of the refereeing blunders that led to the top-ranked team suffering their earliest World Cup exit.
That attitude, recognised by the ICPF, and his actions immediately after the match won him the award which is run under the auspices of the International Olympic Committee.
Henry went straight to the French changing room to congratulate the winners, interrupting a diminutive Frenchman later identified as the President of France, Nicolas Sarkozy.
“After the narrow defeat to France, the New Zealand coach Graham Henry behaved with great dignity and an exemplary sense of Fair Play,” declared Jean Durry, the general secretary of the ICPF, from Budapest where the award will be presented to Henry at a gala dinner in January.
“For a rugby country such as New Zealand, one can only imagine how painful this defeat must have been.
“But with great sobriety, Henry went to the French team room to offer his congratulations. It was a very simple gesture, but it serves as an example to other sports people. In the context of today’s professional sport, Henry’s dignity in defeat was a magnificent example of sportsmanship.”
In acknowledging the award Henry said it was “a huge honour for myself, and for New Zealand rugby”.
“Ever since I started coaching, after every defeat, I have always made a point of congratulating the opposing coach and team. It’s just what you should do. It was by no means an easy thing to do after losing to France, because it killed four years of a dream. But we just had to take it on the chin and act with some dignity.”
Henry is just the fourth rugby winner of the award following Welsh great Gareth Edwards (1978), the Paris-based team Racing Club de France (1991) and Umaga.
Other recipients of the Pierre de Coubertin trophy include Emil Zatopek, Stanley Mathews and Nelson Mandela.
Henry held on to his job despite the loss and is now seeking his second Grand Slam with the All Blacks.
They have the first two legs in following comprehensive wins over Scotland and Ireland. They play Wales this weekend and finish their tour against England in London.
Hehehehehehe
18 Nov 2008, 12:25 pm
#11 foxpox: So if WC’s are all that matters, what mattered before World Cups?
18 Nov 2008, 12:26 pm
#33 stodders:
Now why didn’t Louis Luyt win a similar award?
18 Nov 2008, 12:27 pm
Too right Johnnybravo, NO country beat SA more than they lost pre 1981 and that includes the Lions. And there were some great Lions sides particularly 55 and 74.
18 Nov 2008, 12:28 pm
#34 Richie_7: Before WCups it was all about tours and head-to-head record.
18 Nov 2008, 12:29 pm
#33 stodders: How can one forward pass missed be shocking.
18 Nov 2008, 12:29 pm
#27 It is just a game:
Actually only the Train Driver and the Fireman were killed. God rest their souls.
18 Nov 2008, 12:30 pm
#37 Mick:
So then, as per the above criteria, who’s the best?
18 Nov 2008, 12:31 pm
#39 cane: Were can I read more about it?
18 Nov 2008, 12:34 pm
#40 Richie_7: Up until World Cups started SA (head-to-head vs all comers) and since World Cups started SA and Aus both with 2 !!
18 Nov 2008, 12:36 pm
But then we did actually miss the first two because of our own problems.
18 Nov 2008, 12:36 pm
#42 Mick:
You must be the benchmark in world rugby then, pre and post isolation.
18 Nov 2008, 12:37 pm
#32 Mick:
Actually Mick, co-incidently, it was just at the precise time that Aussie stepped up to the plate, and established themselves as a real force in International Rugby.
18 Nov 2008, 12:38 pm
#42 Mick:
Ok, so since WC started all head-to-heads don’t mean anything anymore?
18 Nov 2008, 12:41 pm
Exactly Richie_7
You may have a point there Cane.
Our record against Aus up till 1981 was terribly one sided.
18 Nov 2008, 12:42 pm
#47 Mick:
Similar to NZ v Bokke currently?
18 Nov 2008, 12:43 pm
#47 Mick:
So consistency is disregarded over a tournament every 4 years?
18 Nov 2008, 12:44 pm
Anyone know what Aus vs NZ head to head was from 1981 to 1990 ?
18 Nov 2008, 12:46 pm
#49 Richie_7: Personally speaking I’d rather have the William Webb Ellis Cup than consistency, but hey, that’s me !!
18 Nov 2008, 12:49 pm
#48 NZINCHINA: Probably fairly similar to SA vs NZ head-to-head since 1991, yeah. It’s not the best record but we do love the Big Cup.
18 Nov 2008, 12:54 pm
#51 Mick:
Yeah, so then I guess you’re not too fussed with regards to the Boks performances after the WC, since you have the Webb Ellis trophy. Well, come to think of it, the Boks performances for the next 4 years don’t mean anything really
18 Nov 2008, 12:54 pm
#30 It is just a game:
Okay It’s justa game………….You can share the Dog Box with Ig. But don’t you go getting Ig, yourself, and me into any trouble with the Law………No spray paint cans!
18 Nov 2008, 12:55 pm
#35 NZINCHINA:
I believe his speeches post-RWC95 Semi and also post-Final were awarded…..shall we say…..a different type of Award. It was an Honour bestowed on him and presented by Eugene Terreblanche. A bit like being knighted.
18 Nov 2008, 12:55 pm
#52 Mick:
Sure and why wouldn’t you fantastic achievement that it is, but you’d be lying if you said dominating the Ab’s is not what every SA fan wants, you last did it in 76′ a while ago now.
18 Nov 2008, 12:56 pm
NZINCHINA, were you the blogger that said “Watch and learn, boys, watch and learn !!” about half way through the first half against France at last years RWC quarter final ??
18 Nov 2008, 12:59 pm
#57 Mick:
I think the phrase was ‘game over’ a little premature in hindsight, thats rugby life goes on.
18 Nov 2008, 12:59 pm
#57 Mick: `
Yeah, he was also the guy that said “heads up chaps” after his team beat the Boks 19-0 earlier this year. Nice chap this NZINCHINA
18 Nov 2008, 12:59 pm
#54 cane: No. The stadium name changing will be a official seremony celebrating the events of WC 2011 and toact as a everyday reminder. You see the Irish have Croke Park, we have Coke Park and 2011 NZ will have CHOKE PARK.
18 Nov 2008, 13:03 pm
#59 Richie_7: He usually uses the word “zeroed” when he refers to the CT game Richie.
18 Nov 2008, 13:04 pm
1094327″>41 It is just a game:
Not sure where you can read more about the Train Crash, except it occured during the ABs transit from (the then) Salisbury to Pretoria in 1949.
18 Nov 2008, 13:06 pm
#56 NZINCHINA: Only one dissapointing thing about winning RWC 07 was that we were on track to play NZ in the final and didn’t. You are right, that would have been sweeter, if we had still won.
18 Nov 2008, 13:17 pm
#33 Sir Stodders:
Thank you for that Sir Stodders.
I enjoyed the read.
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I really enjoyed the read 8)
18 Nov 2008, 13:18 pm
#61 Mick:
How about “ling” – thats Chinese for zero as well.
18 Nov 2008, 13:26 pm
zero, zilch, zip, nada, ling…….? No sure it sits right !!
18 Nov 2008, 13:27 pm
#36 Mick:
Hey Mick………
SA have a measly 48.8% winning ratio against the Lions. (14% drawn).
NZ have a 76.3% winning ratio against the Lions. ( 7.9% drawn).
Congratulations ……you can hold them to a draw more often than we can…. 8)
18 Nov 2008, 13:29 pm
I think the correct response to this headline is “duh”…….
Of course they are.
18 Nov 2008, 13:29 pm
#66 Mick:
lol
18 Nov 2008, 13:29 pm
Brits and Saffas fighting out 0-0 draws…..Now that’s Entertainment.
18 Nov 2008, 13:31 pm
#57 Mick:
Now that Mick…………….is a great Post……………
18 Nov 2008, 13:36 pm
#67 cane: Yes, 21 wins and 16 losses and a surprising 6 draws. We played some very good Lions teams in 55 and 74 and they obviously enjoyed touring SA !!
18 Nov 2008, 13:40 pm
#67 cane: You have to remember that in the early days teams travelled by boat. Since NZ is a lot further away from the British isles than SA most of the Lions would’ve played against the Kiwis suffering from severe cases of seasickness.
18 Nov 2008, 13:43 pm
Lost the first 6 matches straight too, and only registered our first score in the fifth match in 1896.
So we were “linged” the first 4 times we played the Lions !!!!
18 Nov 2008, 13:44 pm
#73 It is just a game: And scurvy !!
18 Nov 2008, 13:45 pm
Nzmychina/Stodders/Cane
Dumela.
Pre/Post isolation stuff is rubbish and frankly I don’t give a hoot about it refs were bad on both sides (good book out , view from 2 different perspectives can’t remember the name). Luyt was a bloody tosser for even bringing it up after 95.
Aske O’Driscoll about Tana.
Whatever we say as SA fans the ABs are consistantly a better side than us but all I am saying is that the legs go a bit wobbly when the big one comes up.
Don’t listen to the political interferance rubbish. Than donkey has been flogged to death. Don’t think we could field a far better side and if anyone has to change it is some of the palefaces who have been outplayed by other palefaces left at home.
Love your work
18 Nov 2008, 13:48 pm
#73 It is just a game:
As opposed to Altitude sickness when they played “fixed” matches on the Veld.
18 Nov 2008, 13:55 pm
#77 cane: The Lions have got off lightly on that one – only 14 games on the highveld out of 43 played. Should have played them more there.
18 Nov 2008, 14:02 pm
#77
Would have thought that the Kiwi’s would have been long used to scurvy.
Remember Jacques Kallis comment about not knowing what altitude they were playing at in Durban (true story). Fixed is a nasty word ask Norling. The RNZAF failed then they sent in Norling to finish the SA Hun off.
18 Nov 2008, 14:04 pm
#79 foxpox: Very funny !!
18 Nov 2008, 14:07 pm
#76 foxpox:
Very wobbly
18 Nov 2008, 14:14 pm
Too much was made of Ireland who pushed a second string ALL BLACKS a few years ago. I remember that game as Carter did’nt play, McCaw, among others..
18 Nov 2008, 14:14 pm
Anyone know whats happened to Ashwin Willemse??
18 Nov 2008, 14:38 pm
of course the abs are the benchmark post isolation but they still choke every 4 years so they are definately not the teamto look to when in the wc
18 Nov 2008, 14:39 pm
#77 cane: We all know that altitude is not a factor in rugby. Otherwise SARU would’ve been smart and let the Boks play all matches at Ellis Park or used a stadium in Lesotho.
18 Nov 2008, 16:00 pm
The bottom line is…..If you employ a “Joker” expect to play like clowns
18 Nov 2008, 18:28 pm
Youve got to remember that the king of the hill can only usually go down, once you become champions everyone wants to beat you and they always raise their game for you. Anyone who thinks last years world cup was a fluke by SA is seriously deluded “oh but they never played Australia France or NZ” so f==king what.
the All blacks had the easiest group by a mile and got knocked out the world cup by France who lost 3 games in the competition, one of which was a complete hammering by Argentina(who were undoubtedly the third best team in the world at the world cup) who the boks beat reasonably comfortably.
they never played Australia? this will be the mighty Australia who managed to score f==king 10 points against England and lose the quarter final, a team which the Boks played 4 times in 2007 and had an aggregate score of 164-38.
The world cup was no fluke if anything the boks won it playing the vast majority of games in second gear.
the All Blacks do set the standard outside world cups though, because they do the basics so well something that the Boks have only done occasionally this year. but that doesnt make the Boks unworthy champs, every year between world cups past and future the All Blacks have set the standard in between, does that suddenly make every other winner Unworthy?
19 Nov 2008, 07:44 am
Springboks vs All Blacks. whos the best team over history? That argument will carry on till hell freezes over. As an AB fan there is nothing better than facing the green machine.
ABs best at moment but SA refs rule.
19 Nov 2008, 16:32 pm
#87 dquinn25: No problems at all, South Africa were worthy champions.
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