Danny gets the chop
25 Nov 2008
Martin Johnson has axed Danny Cipriani for England’s Test against the All Blacks.
Cipriani has been talked up by the English press but the past three weekends have shown this to be more hot air than anything else. Cipriani had three kicks charged down against the Boks (one resulted in Ruan Pienaar’s try), was weary in defence, and failed to ignite the backline, and as a result he’s been replaced by Toby Flood.
Opensider Tom Rees has also been dropped as Michael Lipman comes in. Lock Tom Palmer makes way for Nick Kennedy, who will win his second cap after scoring on debut against the Pacific Islanders.
Johnson has brought Leicester centre Danny Hipkiss into the 22 as he opts for a conventional bench of four forwards and three backs for the first time under his tutelage.
England – 15 Delon Armitage, 14 Paul Sackey, 13 Jamie Noon, 12 Riki Flutey, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Danny Care, 8 Nick Easter, 7 Michael Lipman, 6 James Haskell, 5 Nick Kennedy, 4 Steve Borthwick (c), 3 Phil Vickery, 2 Lee Mears, 1 Tim Payne.
Subs: 16 Dylan Hartley, 17 Matt Stevens, 18 Tom Croft, 19 Tom Rees, 20 Harry Ellis, 21 Danny Cipriani, 22 Danny Hipkiss.
167 Comments
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 » Show All
25 Nov 2008, 16:47 pm
Wonder whats going to happen this weekend.
First oz beat england convincly, then SA doubled that score, there’s a bit of pressure to beat the SA showing last week, wonder if it wont all be a bit closer.
England could definitely do with changes at 2, 5 and 8.
25 Nov 2008, 16:50 pm
#50 BlackPanther: you’ll see Rees in the second half. our backrow outplayed NZ earlier this year, but the backs were awful in defence.
25 Nov 2008, 16:54 pm
#52 Big Hit:
Oh, so it wasnt only Rees who ‘outplayed McCaw’ it was, in fact, the whole back-row ?
How strange to drop better players against the no1 team in the World. I suppose that makes Johnno wrong and you right.
25 Nov 2008, 16:54 pm
What a dumb *** move. This will wreck this guy’s confidence.
He played his first few tests with an inexperienced crappy scrummie and an inexperienced crappy 12. Ruaan played with experienced world cup winners around him – it makes a massive difference.
If you look at the charge down try – it came largely as Care’s pass was a loopy baloon of a pass cramping him for time and space.
I am not talking him up – but what Johnno is doing is folding to pressure. He is doing a Nick Mallett on Gaffie du Toit
I have seen him play and contrary to popular belief, i think he has potential. He is 21 – let him grow into it.
25 Nov 2008, 16:54 pm
How can the player of the year come from a team that could not make the world cup 1/4′s and is north of the equator. Surely this highlights case in point the arogance of the british – Come on the All Blacks – lets have another record!
25 Nov 2008, 16:56 pm
#5 obelix11a: Do you support the Boks or the ABs?
25 Nov 2008, 16:57 pm
As for the loose trio – they are going to get smashed.
Contesting on the deck is all about the open sider and 8th man working together – and McCaw and Sooalo will destroy a very slow Easter and a very inexperienced Lipman.
Then Haskell who has such promise – will have a MOER of a battle against Kaino.
25 Nov 2008, 16:59 pm
#53 BlackPanther: no it was Rees all right, but the entire NZ backrow were outplayed.
25 Nov 2008, 17:00 pm
Flood is another Charlie Hodgson, or Jonathan Webb, Phil de Glanville. Nothing magic – just too average.
Go with Danni Capriati – give him another chance
25 Nov 2008, 17:01 pm
#55 The Rant Sniffer: because its player of the year not team of the year. mike blair and sergio parisse were nominated too
25 Nov 2008, 17:02 pm
#54 Cheetha Champs:
I agree.
25 Nov 2008, 17:03 pm
#54 Cheetha Champs:
If only that was the only chargedown. Unfortunately it was the most recent of 3, hence lessons-not-learned. Its not so much just that facet of play but general package; he almost refuses to tackle and looks to be playing his own script, not the coaches. I dont think many players expect to get more than 3 matches if they keep making mistakes and not learning from them, young or not.
But youre right, that Care looks care-less so hardly right for the no10 to take all the blame.
25 Nov 2008, 17:05 pm
#60 Big Hit: They also both suck.
25 Nov 2008, 17:07 pm
#54 Cheetha Champs: kid’s just back early from a broken ankle and is badly out of form. It would’ve been more cruel to play him. He’s a far better player than he’s showed and continuing to play him was doing him more harm than good.
25 Nov 2008, 17:07 pm
#58 Big Hit:
The ABs havent been outplayed by Eng in any facet of play since 2002.
No, youre right.
They outwhinge the best of them.
25 Nov 2008, 17:08 pm
#63 The Rant Sniffer: Mike Blair and Sergio Parisse suck? I don’t really know what to say to that.
25 Nov 2008, 17:08 pm
#62 BlackPanther: Please understand, I am not talking him up, I just think he is the best option they have.
I have seen Cipriani play enough good games to know he will be something one day. He is quick, and can create from nothing. That is something that not Toby Flood, nor any of the other Souties can do. He is as accurate as any kicker with the boot.
25 Nov 2008, 17:09 pm
#65 BlackPanther: well they were beaten at home in 2003 so you might want to factor that in
25 Nov 2008, 17:10 pm
#67 Cheetha Champs: They’re not Souties, they’re English, a whole ‘nother country from a whole ‘nother continent.
25 Nov 2008, 17:12 pm
#69 Big Hit:
They all look the same to me !
25 Nov 2008, 17:13 pm
#66 Big Hit: No sorry – was really just trying to bait you with the first comment, Shane Williams is awesome – but too small for International Rugby imo – We tried the same thing with Brent Russell – and time after time high balls get kicked on him – big attackers aim for his channel etc.
Here is a thought – if we had a best of Southern Hemisphere team would Mike Blair or Sergio Parisse make it?
25 Nov 2008, 17:13 pm
#70 Cheetha Champs: what are you saying here, ‘English’ South Africans look like British English people?
25 Nov 2008, 17:16 pm
#71 The Rant Sniffer: Ask Nick Mallet about Parisse he’ll tell you if he’d make the team. Mike Blair would be ahead of the SA scrum-halves on form, but Du Preez is a better player when in form.
Williams has nearly 60 caps and has just been named the best rugby player in the world this year with 43 tries in his career. I think he can cut it in international rugby. all players have their weaknesses.
25 Nov 2008, 17:17 pm
#71 The Rant Sniffer: Blair would probably lose out to a South African scrum half, but not to NZ or Oz ones.
Parisse can at least lay claim to being in the top 3 no 8s in the world, so yes, I think he would probably make a SH XV.
25 Nov 2008, 17:19 pm
#74 stodders: I think its safe to say Parisse is the best 8 in the world.
25 Nov 2008, 17:19 pm
#72 Big Hit: Am being facaecious. Soutie, Engelsman, Rooi Nek, – still think Danny Capriati should be playing
25 Nov 2008, 17:19 pm
#73 Big Hit: Im not saying he cannot cut it – all im saying is if i was coach he would not be in my world team let alone player of the year. Defense wins games and im sorry – in that department he is average.
25 Nov 2008, 17:22 pm
#76 Cheetha Champs: Cipriani, these PDVisms
#77 The Rant Sniffer: he didn’t have a good return game v the Boks but has been good in defence up until that all season.
25 Nov 2008, 17:23 pm
#75 Big Hit: Just like Ciprianni was the best thing since sliced bread – Parrise is good – i do rate him – but Blair is not my favourite. Actually thinking about it, there are not many top class scrummies doing the rounds lately are there.
25 Nov 2008, 17:26 pm
#79 The Rant Sniffer: Cipriani wasn’t nominated by a panel of judges, many of whom are legends of the game. Parisse was.
You don’t have to agree on Williams but i would’ve thought two tries in a weakened Wales team against SA including one unbelievable try that no one else in the world could’ve scored would have opened a few people’s eyes.
25 Nov 2008, 17:26 pm
#68 Big Hit:
Obviously it was 2003, since that was their last victory against NZ. Its easy to admit clear mistakes.
A bit like calling Graham Henry arrogant and a bad sportsman in the same week he gets an International Fair Play Award, gets named Coach of the Year and his team the Team of the Year.
25 Nov 2008, 17:34 pm
#81 BlackPanther: he is arrogant, many NZers will even tell you that. And even though he didn’t say anything about Barnes in public we all know thats how he hung onto his job.
25 Nov 2008, 17:35 pm
#82 Big Hit: oh and he’s missing that little yellow cup
25 Nov 2008, 17:35 pm
#80 Big Hit: The IRB nomination process is flawed. It’s been pointed out in the papers up here all week. How only one SH player can be nominated for the award when they are yet to lose a game against the NH teams this year is beyond me.
John Eales pointed out that players who play in good teams are less likely to win votes because their teammates take votes off them. How does that clearly identify the best player in the world?
For me, the form players in the world this year were Matt Giteau, Sergio Parisse, Tony Woodcock, Richie McCaw and Lee Byrne. Adi Jacobs would also be in a with a shout. If Bakkies Botha hadn’t missed so much of the 3N and CC, he would have been up for the award too.
25 Nov 2008, 17:38 pm
#78 Big Hit: I know i might risk sounding like jake white here – but if im a coach and i have to play against Wales – i will target Shane Williams by running at him with big forwards all game – its almost a given that you will get over the advantage line if Bakkies/Spies/Burger/Steyn/JDV etc run into him – also it is a given that if two people are contesting the a high ball and one is shorter than the other by a foot – who would you put money on to catch the ball? Now ask yourself how many games has wales won – (bar 6 nations) – obviously if you kick the ball too far and give him enough space to run it at you you are in trouble.
25 Nov 2008, 17:39 pm
#84 stodders: here we go again.
It doesn’t matter who’s team is winning, its about the players performing consistently.
Caucau’s national team is always going to lose, but you would deny him the IRB award because his team is losing? even though he would be the best player in the world if he bothered even 50%?
Its an individual award. everyone has their own choices but the judges are more informed than you and I having played the game and watched every international match.
25 Nov 2008, 17:41 pm
#85 The Rant Sniffer: none of the players you mention play out wide. You could play Spies on the wing of course but he’s just as likely to get wrong-footed by Williams.
#84 stodders: and McCaw was outplayed by a rookie 7 then cried off injured.
25 Nov 2008, 17:41 pm
#82 Big Hit: Maybe you just don’t like his dry sense of humour? I don’t think Henry is as arrogant as some would make him out to be. However, it is true that to be a top coach or professional in any industry, you have to have a certain amount of cockiness to remain at the top.
Yes, he can be a surly old git, but so was my grandad. I didn’t think my grandad was arrogant though.
You have a bee in your bonnet about him. You’ll point fingers at his tenure as Lions coach and Welsh coach next, conveniently forgetting that the players who took issue with him were those who did not have the personalities to take his direct manner, i.e. Healey, Dawson, Thomas etc.
He suits the Kiwi psyche obviously, as their results under his coaching tenure speak for themself. I doubt he cares what people think about him so long as his team keeps winning.
25 Nov 2008, 17:42 pm
#81 BlackPanther: #83 Big Hit:
That’s right BlackPanther – little old Bill. He doesn’t have that – and so I guess the IRB figured they best give the old man something to make him feel a teensy, weensy little bit better….
25 Nov 2008, 17:43 pm
#86 Big Hit: Big Hit, just for you, this was written by ex-England lock forward and now journalist, Paul Ackford. Sums up my thoughts better than i can write them myself.
If Carter doesn’t become the first player to win the award for a second time, the judges want shooting.
Even if he does, they deserve a few pot shots because this is the worst short-list in the award’s distinguished history.
Why no Richie McCaw? Why no George Smith, Matt Giteau, Ali Williams or Stirling Mortlock, all of whom have had significantly more productive years than Blair and Parisse?
Possibly because the majority of the voting panel – all distinguished internationals, by the way – live or work in Europe and have displayed appalling bias towards northern hemisphere representatives at a time when the power in the game is down south.
Don’t take my word for it. Listen to former Wallaby great John Eales, the panel’s convener.
“Parisse has been a stand-out for the Italians this year,” Eales said, by way of justification. “Carter’s got to win points off McCaw, Rodney So’oialo, Mils Muliaina, the list goes on and on, so sometimes it can be an advantage when you don’t have all the world’s best players in your team.”
Oh, I see. Parisse gets the nod because the rest of his mates are rubbish. That’s no way to validate a nominee.
At least Shane Williams and Ryan Jones won something with Wales, unlike Blair who, before Saturday’s match against Canada, had been successful in just two out of nine games with Scotland this year.
If the International Rugby Board want this award to have significance, and they do, then perhaps they ought to apply some objective criteria rather than allowing former players to peddle petty prejudices.
25 Nov 2008, 17:46 pm
#84 stodders:
Eales is a strange bugger.
IRB players of the year:
Andrewhore, jean de villiers (bismarck), sergio parrise, shayne williams, waycliffe palu
25 Nov 2008, 17:46 pm
#88 stodders: Hey Stodders… you had me laughing with your description of your grandfather… Mine was the same. He unfortunately passed on before I was old enough to learn how to appreciate his sense of humour…
Don’t particularly dislike Henry. Would probably be real interesting sharing a pint with him. Assuming of course, that he likes the odd few…
25 Nov 2008, 17:47 pm
#87 Big Hit: Shane Williams did nothing against JPP or Rokocoko. Aside from one or two moments of footwork, he was contained and shut down. NZ at the end made him look like a rag doll and scored from a turnover when they scragged him.
He’s a great little player, and he had a good year mostly playing second rate NH teams and scoring that try against the Boks in SA, but to say he performed better than the Kiwis, Ozzies and South Africans in a much higher calibre competition like the 3N is wrong IMO. The best players this year clearly come from the SH, with Parisse being the exception.
25 Nov 2008, 17:47 pm
#90 stodders: ackford got knocked out by an argie who comes up to my knee, he’s clearly still suffering from the effects.
There has been a SH winner for the last 4 years, there is no bias.
Parisse was motm in nearly every game and you as a Scot should know how well Blair has played in a losing cause.
25 Nov 2008, 17:48 pm
#87 Big Hit: Im not talking about getting wrong footed by Williams – in that he has no equal – its the rest of his game where he is average to poor. Under the high ball and stopping players getting over the advantage line. SA went through the same thing with Brent Russell. And tell bakkies he does not play out wide – actually half the SA forward pack have been known to hang out wide – Victor matfield Loves it – and CJ has also been know to rip up the touch line on his way to the try line. Williams equals weakness = not best player in the world.
25 Nov 2008, 17:50 pm
#94 Big Hit:
lol, strong as all hell tho, think it was on the hookers debut.
25 Nov 2008, 17:50 pm
#91 cab: I like that you’ve picked a front rower. I would personally have picked Woodcock who scored a few tries on top of his usual high class work.
Not sure about Palu. I think McCaw was the pick of the SH loosies this year. Winning the S14, NZ domestic championship and 3N titles as well as captaining the teams is some achievement.
JdV would be in with a shout, but i though Adi Jacobs was the pick of the SA backs myself.
25 Nov 2008, 17:50 pm
#88 stodders: I’ve seen his manner on the Lions vid, i’m surprised anyone ever played for him.
#93 stodders: second rate NH teams and then you mention the Boks, well the Boks are 3N competition are they not?
you simply don’t get the point that its an individual award. The best teams have come from the SH, the best individual players from the NH.
25 Nov 2008, 17:50 pm
#89 greenbok:
As far as Im aware, the award is for the past 12months excluding the RWC.
The Sth African supporters are in fear of living off past glories. Its like the Poms going on, still, about 1966. And there is no sight more pathetic.
25 Nov 2008, 17:51 pm
If best player in the world means a player who gets fans on their feet with excitement when he gets the ball – fans close their eyes when he is the last line of defense and usually ends up on the losing side – then fine. I now know why England Rugby is in dire straights.
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.