Sharks, Stormers tipped for S14 success
19 Jan 2009
Former Springbok assistant coach Alan Solomons believes the Sharks or Stormers could become the second South African winners of the Super 14 while his outlook for New Zealand’s franchises is bleak.
Solomons, who currently works as a high performance consultant for the IRB, coached the Stormers to a semi-final in 1999 and was also the assistant to Nick Mallett during a golden period for the Springboks when they went 17 Tests undefeated. In addition, he has also coached Ulster to the Celtic Cup title.
Speaking to keo.co.za from Belfast, Solomons predicted that the quality of the Sharks’ squad and their coaching staff meant they had the best chance of winning the tournament, but he noted that the Stormers were an emerging force who would build on their improvement in 2008, and challenge for the title this season.
“My money is on the Sharks and Stormers to make the play-offs and then for one of them to kick on from there and win the whole thing,” he told this website.
“South Africa are currently in a golden cycle in terms of the calibre of players we’re producing or currently have playing the game at Super 14 level, and the Sharks in particular have the bulk of those elite players. They have the depth in talent, and in [John] Plumtree they have an outstanding coach. Their strength lies in the fact that they can rotate their squad and still field an unbelievable unit.
“The Stormers did well under Rassie [Erasmus - head coach] in 2008. I liked the brand of rugby they played and they’ve made some good signings between now and then. They’ll build on what they achieved last year and if they can get into the semi-final anything can happen on the day.”
Solomons noted that it would be a defining season for Bulls coach Frans Ludeke, who last year failed to mount a successful title defence with the Pretoria franchise.
“Last year was tough for Frans. He had just taken over the defending champions and replaced Heyneke Meyer, who had built that squad of players over a number of years,” he said.
“He struggled to put his unique mark on that side, which makes 2009 a defining year for him. He did well in the Currie Cup, but the measure of the man will come in the Super 14. He’ll be helped tremendously by the return of [Victor] Matfield though. I think people underestimate his impact from a playing and leadership perspective. It’ll be huge.
“There’s a question mark about how they’ll go, but I certainly think they’ll finish in the top half of the table. That said, if they play to their potential consistently they have the ability to win the tournament.”
His outlook for the Lions and Cheetahs was less optimistic however. Solomons identified a lack of depth as the primary challenges they would have to overcome if they hoped to be involved at the business end of the tournament, but he didn’t foresee them finishing in the top half of the table.
Meanwhile, Solomons noted the mass exodus of players from New Zealand to Europe would continue to hurt them.
“You could probably pick a very strong All Blacks side from the New Zealanders playing in Europe,” he said. “Their franchises have suffered with some top players deciding to move north and [Dan] Carter’s and [Robbie] Deans’s departures will certainly make the Crusaders vulnerable.
“Neither they nor Australia have the depth of talent we have to combat an exodus like that. When I was coach of the Stormers [between 1997 and 2000] the New Zealand blokes would often tell me that a fifth New Zealand franchise is not sustainable because they simply didn’t have the quality of players to fill five.
“This all points to a successful year for the Sharks and Stormers. I’m very positive about their chances. In fact, if they manage to keep their core of their sides together over the next four or five years, they could well dominate in the manner the Crusaders have.”
By Ryan Vrede
415 Comments
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20 Jan 2009, 12:32 pm
STORMERS will be the highest placed RSA team in this years S14.
Will that be at number 10 or in the top four only way to find out is…let the games begin!!
20 Jan 2009, 13:50 pm
#401 Wallabie. – The English always have an excuse after a pomp!!: So Walla you don’t rate the Sharks then? Sharks will be there for sure mate….lol.
20 Jan 2009, 13:50 pm
# Wallabie. – The English always have an excuse after a pomp!!: Sharks in the top 4 maybe even the final.
20 Jan 2009, 14:40 pm
#227 Puma:
Puma, stop squealing like a pig. Again. Your desperation has now reached new depths – Super 10 ? An informal pre-professional tournament of invitee-only participants compared to S12/14. Dont make any assumptions, I was a teenager at Eden Park in 1981 when Hewie kicked the ball in to Heaven. My guess is you may have heard about that one from your Grandpa.
I think its generally acknowledged that the SA teams won the S14 by default only in 2007. But, please, go ahead. Expose yourself to naivety for the sake of argument yet again. Doesnt mean the Bulls werent an excellent team, theyve proved themselves that already. But would have they have enjoyed their position in the ladder, home advan etc without those early season points racked up against weakened NZ teams ? Could they have won it from 4th, playing away for Semi and Final ? Well SA teams, provincial and International, have not proven themselves away-Kings just yet….
PI players ? Oh, Stephen Jones, how did you sneak on to these pages ?! Last time I looked there were a few Zimbabweans given hasty passports south of the border. The difference being, our ‘PI’ players have been schooled, if not born, in NZ. SA just cherrypick the good ones once theyve proved their credentials – Messrs Beast, Tonderai….., not to mention Bok Captains, Messrs Krige, Skinstad…. Probably best not to throw stones in glasshouses.
1987 ? after the Boks won RWC 07 they answered any accusations of ‘only’ beating the mighty Fiji, Argies (neither of whom they had ever lost to) and the England Womens team with “you can only beat what is put before you”. So I refer you back to 1987. Like it or not, New Zealand is the FIRST name on the trophy. I think if theyd had to face Fiji, Argentina and England, then neither would it be the only time. NZ have only ever lost to France, SA and Aus at a RWC which are the only teams they have ever respected. SA even made the Tongans look World-beaters at RWC 07 !
Which brings us back to the article here. I repeat. Until the SA teams prove themselves on the road, with results, then to make predictions of NZ teams demise, in particular is somewhat presumptious. Whilst there are more overseas NZ-professionals than NZ-domestic pro’s, then does not mean that the ones left will roll over.
20 Jan 2009, 15:31 pm
#404 BlackPanther: You really like that word pig don’t you BP? First you call John Smit that now me? You need to grow up a bit there. Heard what from my Grandpa? hahaha. You make me laugh really. 1981 I was 25 years old already you may have been a teenager but I was not. So I am older than you BP you can work out my age. I never mentioned that game in my posts above. I did watch it. Very early hours in the morning here around 5am. If you must know that was not penalty in the end either. We can debate that but I respect your opinion. Here we all say that was no penalty.
Please don’t speak about the PI we know how many you have in your team. LOTS. I remember seeing a AB game against the Boks in 1976 maybe you were too young. But there were no PI in that team that I can remember. Anyway we have Beast he has lived in SA for many years. Only 22 at the moment. Skinstadt went to School here in Durban from a very young age. Maybe we have a handful of Zim guys but thats all. Our teams are mostly 100% South African. You know how much depth we have here. Not so sure NZ have the same. Thats being honest. Not that they wont play well with the players they have there now. NZ will always play magnificent rugby with who ever is still in NZ. I don’t doubt that for a minute.
So you don’t say you then won the wc cup in 1987 on default now do you? Its easy for you to say we won the S14 by default but not that your only wc cup was on default too then as the Boks were not there to compete. Yes BP lets you and I now become children again and debate about silly nonsense like that. I think you have a little chip on the shoulder now that your team has not won the wc cup again. We only played who was in front of us in the 2007 wc. Sorry to say the AB’s were not there as I would have really liked a AB and Bok final but your team went out in the 1/4 final. Cant you rememeber that? You lost to France who England beat who we beat twice in that competition. Gosh we can go on and on about that forever. If your team had won I for one would not be pointing fingers and saying you only won because of who you played. I would say congrats. Just look at the draw your team have in the next wc looks good to me. Hope they make it. I feel they will. The only regret is we will face each other in the semi. Pity as I would have like the dream final. Boks playing AB’s in the final. Well its not going to happen again. So one of our teams will be out in the semi. Pity.
Anyway BP have a great day where ever you are. Stop all this silly nonsense and lets banter with each other. Calling names is just for children really. I don’t think you are one. I enjoy speaking to many kiwis here they all are a lot of fun its only you that comes across with this chip. Let it go. Lets have fun with the banter during the S14. Lets be mates.
Cheers.
20 Jan 2009, 18:41 pm
#405 Puma:
Puma vs Panther….
I like the way your look down your nose and make these ‘you were too young’ and leftfield references to PI players and then come over all Senior Citizen with ‘calling names’ and me having a chip. Gee, I never knew you Safas did irony. You fellas have such a massive chip on your shoulder about PIs being in the ABs, as if to say ‘if you didnt have them, then the Boks would win every time’. Then, given your advanced age, you’ll also know that the Boks home record in the isolation years was built not only on Afrikaaner referees but also on refusing…..ahem…..our coloured boys (or ‘PIs’) visas and therefore entry to the Republic. Do you think BG Williams was the 1st Islander to land in NZ ? or the Maoris ? So, perhaps, you have a selective memory Puma. Whatever exuse fits…..NZers are long used to hearing from Safas about our cheating refs, our cheating Captains, your quotas, your administrators, travel disadvantages….blah blah. So, rrrrrrrrrrrrreally, there has ALWAYS been a reason why NZ keeps winning 3 Tests to every 1 the Boks do. And only ONE SA Super title. Priceless.
‘Stop all this silly nonsense’, Puma, its not becoming of an OAP.
Youve heard it before but its not really that convenient to acknowledge the FACTS is it, doesnt fit with the whole conspiracy theories. Auckland is the Biggest Polynesian city in the World ! LA is the 2nd. I grew up in a part of Auckland where Polynesians outnumbered us ‘pakehas’ by 5 to 1. I played 1st XVs where the only pakeha played at no10 and their wingers were bigger than our locks.
Beast finished his schooling in Zim. You know, I know it. Chavanga the same. The other prop (Mujati ?) similar background, unless Im mistaken. So lets not point fingers. The PI team that toured UK over November had more born in NZ than in PI. You figure it out for yourself.
And if we really wanted to make the most of our PIs, then we’d ban them from playing rugby league. 90% of PIs play league not Union. NZ are the World Champions. Imagine how much better still we would be with all of them available. So, please, enough of the ‘calling names’ its ‘just for children’ apparently.
As for this supposed massive depth advantage SA have, lets look at S12/14 history. Compare the number of NZ teams who finish in the top half. And then compare how many SA teams have finished in the lower half. Theres your depth answer, the stats dont lie ! SA has as many Wooden Spoons as the Crusaders have titles.
OH, I forget. Its because of all those PIs we ‘import’. Or because we cheat. Or….
Yes, I have many Safa mates. They all have the same blanket excuses as you. All our refs are cheats, our Captain, our selection policies… me raising the facts doesnt prevent our friendships either, in fact in enhances them. I think Kiwis and Safas are equally insular, only the ones who live overseas like myself, have seen the light. I always like the one about ‘NZ won the 1987 RWC but the Boks beat the Cavaliers in ’86, therefore….’. Just priceless. Lets ignore the fact those ABs were (1) unoffical (2) coached by a man who had never coached (3) left our best 2 players behind – JK and Kirk (4) were selected on 1984 form but because of court battles, injunctions etc only departed NZ 2 yrs later but, still, took the same squad. But, just not convenient for the average Safa to acknowledge those things, it doesnt fit with the myth.
By the way, it was a penalty in 1981. But of course, it was a dodgy Welsh ref wasnt it. Always the same. Tell me, did the Boks beat France in the ’95 Semi ? Did Louis Luyt present a gold watch to the Welsh ref at the aftermatch ?
You cannae have it both ways my canine friend.
20 Jan 2009, 21:41 pm
#406 BlackPanther: you make me laugh BP. I just typed a page and more back to you but thought just let it go. Just deleted it. So wont say anymore. I think maybe you have heard it all from your saffa friends. So no use repeating it.
You can still call names but let me tell you OAP is a long way off for me. I still do my own business work from home. Travel the world. So its still a long way to there still.
Just have to say I have a tape from 1981 and yes it was a penalty and it was way over the 80min. Also that was no try from the French in 1995 semi also have a tape of that. Have frozen it on the picture and that was not try it was stopped just before the line.
So only the saffas and kiwis that live overseas have seen the light like yourself of what? lol. You funny man you really had me laughing there. I lived overseas for many years, so does that mean I have seen the light too?……………hahahahahaha. You funny oke. Sound like skop now. lol.
Catch you in the S14 if you watch it still. Watched a repeat of the Bath game today. Jeez the standard over there is poor compared to the SH. No wonder when most come back from there they cant fit back into the teams here. Hope your players get back next year if they want to make the AB side. I think the team you have now will be just too good for the ones wanting to come back next year. The pace is much faster down here in the SH.
Cheers china.
Will catch you during the S14.
20 Jan 2009, 23:14 pm
#400 Puma:
Hey Puma
You are correct,there wernt hardly any in the early 70s but i think around that time our govermaent ran a program for Pacific Islanders to come over and join the workforce etc,and mate did they what.So it was what our government did,but hey all is good,its a win win for both people of NZ and PI.
21 Jan 2009, 02:25 am
#407 Puma:
Hey Puma, I think BP just gave you a bit of your own medicine back. He’s a take-no-prisoners type. His exposing of Big Hit as a fraud on these pages over the past few months has been one of my Keo highlights. Great, BH is BS.
The 1981 match is always a great topic for Safas and Kiwis. No doubt it was a penalty. As for ‘way over 80 mins’. Yes, it was. But dont forget the small matter of a light plane flying overhead and delivering unbaked bread on the crowd and players below. Not only was Gary Knight felled with a direct hit, requiring treatment from the Zambucks, but the police were constantly being called on to the pitch to remove flares hurled on from protesters. And the ref didnt blow immediately after Hewie kicked the match-winning pen, he played an extra 2-3 mins, so plenty of time for Naasty Boota to reply in kind. In fact many Kiwis will tell you there wasnt enough time added considering the chaos from protesters.
1995, only the blind – ie Sth Africans – can state categorically that France didnt score. Funny, youre adament about the clear vision there and also when Kruger ‘scored’ in the Final. Again, both incidents appeared under a pile of bodies and yet every Safa I know ‘saw’ what happened.
Theres a pattern there y’know…..
21 Jan 2009, 09:23 am
#408 Hurricane: Hi Hurricane, Thanks now I understand a lot better about the PI living in NZ. I never used to see many in the early days in the AB side but like you say if NZ government ran a programme for them to join workforce in the early 70′s there then a lot would have gone over to NZ at the time. So that explains a lot of the PI’s in your team. They would now be NZ citizens like in a few years time you will have a lot of Saffa’s taking out NZ citizenship. I think there must be over 100 thousand of us living in your lovely country now.
Thanks mate. Catch you during the S14.
#409 WakaNathan: Not my own medicine back I was responding to his first post 190. Its just banter mate nothing serious no problems there.
Agree 1981 there were a lot of those protesters and the flour bombs over the park. Could have taken some time on the clock. Anyway its all in the past now. France never scored a try in that 1995 final. Go have a look maybe on youtube and freeze it you will see. It might be there. I have a tape. Kruger did score but those days there was no tmo. We still won so it never mattered. Lets forget about all this now. Its all behind and done. We have the cup twice you have it once but may win it in 2011. Your country has a good chance being at home. Pity we have to face each other in the semi. Wish it could have been the final. Hey thats how it goes. One of our teams will be out in the semi. Pity.
Cheers Waka.
21 Jan 2009, 09:25 am
#409 WakaNathan: meant 1995 semi final.
21 Jan 2009, 11:13 am
#410 Puma:
Yeah Puma i see a few SA around Christchurch,i work with one,he helps me sometimes with some of the ferns posts,as i am not to fluent in anything but English.He has a laugh especially when i am at work and posting,but he dosnt like rugby,hmmm strange that.I always thought of all South Africans as rugby lovers but hey there has to be some bad apples in the bunch i suppose
21 Jan 2009, 11:16 am
#411 Puma:
NZ didnt play rugby in 1991,1995,1999,2003,2007.Those years i believe are missing from the All Blacks archives
21 Jan 2009, 11:52 am
#412 Hurricane: Most SA love rugby but there are a few that don’t. Agree unusual though. Have to watch your posting at work? lol.
#413 Hurricane: hahahahaha. Good one Hurricane.
21 Jan 2009, 14:29 pm
Gentlemen
dont fall in to the trap of believing the RWC is the ONLY thing in rugby. Its convenient for the sake of a wind-up if youre currently holding Bill, no doubt. But rugby union has a unique and wonderful history way beyond 1987 when the RWC was born. It pisses me off this total obsession with the RWC. Give me a 3 or 4 Test tour and series ANY day ! Firstly, the touring team gets to play and meet the locals, where heroes are formed for youngsters (Danie Gerber was always mine, altho Andy Irvine and Phil Bennett also mesmerised me). Secondly and most importantly, the 3 or 4 Test series allowed the truly best team to emerge, allowed them to come back from a loss, re-group etc ie to see who the real men are. Nothing beats that, nothing.
As Im sure will happen in SA this year, true passion will return with the Lions landing at JoBurg. Check out the crowds in NZ in 2005, I think it almost surpasses the RWC for grassroots fervour.
OK, the RWC remains, and should be the pinnacle. But there is an element of luck in the draw that means the Winner may or may not be the ‘best’ team. For eg Aus were clearly the best at RWC ’91; SA probably took ’95 thru home-advantage and the Madiba factor despite not showing the sensational form of the ABs; Eng were clearly the best team in 2002 and only JUST got over the line at RWC ’03. As for 2007, well, SA played well but I dont think you can say their draw truly tested whether they were the ‘best’ having avoided Aus, NZ and France. Lets see whether they play like World Champions in 2009 against an average-looking Lions squad because they were 3rd of 3 at TriN ’08.
So lets not fall in to the trap of the Home Nations which cover up their complete ineptness by saying ONLY the RWC matters. Look a little closer and you’ll know why they find always fall back on that excuse.
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