Aussies favourites for new franchise
5 Mar 2009
Western Sydney, Gosford, Newcastle and Melbourne will compete to host Australia’s fifth franchise in the new Super 15.
Sanzar has decided that a new conference-based round will follow the regular Super Rugby round-robin. Each Sanzar country will host a conference and, since South Africa and New Zealand already have five franchises, it’s more than likely Australia will be awarded the new team to complete their quota. South Africa and New Zealand will bid for the new franchise but with the problem of overseas travel in what is an Australia-based conference, the fifth conference place could go to an Aussie team.
The Western Force joined the Super Rugby family in 2006, and since that time there have been fears that the three original Aussie franchises have become diluted. Australian Rugby Union chief John O’Neill said this will be addressed when structuring the new franchise.
“It is imperative that we learn the lessons of some of the mistakes which were made when the Western Force was created,” O’Neill said. “There was a bit of gay abandon in the ways players were recruited for the Force. We would also be very careful that the existing four Australian franchises are not diminished in any way.”
A proposal will be put forward to Sanzar’s broadcasters on 30 June where the new structure, which includes a six-team final series after the conference round, will be addressed.
The decision of where to base the new Aussie franchise, be it in Western Sydney, Gosford, Newcastle or Melbourne, will also be decided by the broadcasters. All decisions will be made before the end of 2009. Australians playing abroad and even Pacific Islanders could be recruited to play for the new team.
O’Neill said he hopes to have the six-team final series in place by 2010.
“It would give us a taste of what it’s like. In 2011 it will be the start of a new competition, but it is also a World Cup year.
“That will require some logistical manoeuvring to make sure that we get the expanded Super Rugby and Tri-Nations tournaments out of the way in time for the World Cup in New Zealand. We wanted to have the six-team final in 2009, but it got knocked on the head.”
South Africa are also pushing for the inclusion of Argentina in the Tri-Nations. O’Neill said this is still a work in progress.
“Sanzar has decided to put more grunt into working with the Argentina union on getting better assurances that they can provide their best available team. We also need to find out what revenue generation can come out of including Argentina in a four-nations tournament.”
40 Comments
5 Mar 2009, 16:42 pm
Melbourne has had a rugby-league team for many years and even won the NRL repeatedly. They struggle to get more than 3-4,000 per game….
There are already 31 non-Aus players in their 4 teams. Where are they going to steal another 30 players from to form a 5th team ?
Why does everyone cowtow to John O’Neill ?
5 Mar 2009, 17:19 pm
It is just sooooo lame the 6 team player idea.
Lets see…. play for the possibility of being in the final 2 sides from your conference or make lots of money overseas …. ummm …. hmmmm
lame
5 Mar 2009, 17:20 pm
Forget the teams the Australian rugby fans are diluted too much. There are not five sports bars in Australia so how can they get 5 teams?
5 Mar 2009, 17:44 pm
#3 church – like chch but pronounceable:
O’Neill has to justify his reappointment somehow. This way he gets his annual bonus.
5 Mar 2009, 17:51 pm
#1 BlackPanther: Crickey, thats exactly what I was thinking. Where are Oz going to get players to fill another team? Going to scout the PIs and for sure they will have scouts coming to SA. Just watch. Those damn Aussies.
5 Mar 2009, 18:06 pm
#5 Puma:
Tahu, Cooper, Braid …yes, where will they come from
Someone posted earlier that Aus has 37 (or was it 27) players not born in Aus playing in there 4 teams.
5 Mar 2009, 18:14 pm
This is bull – why do the Aussies get another franchise? If not the Argies, then is this not a good opportunity to bring in a team of Islander guys? Get some badly-needed cash their way?
Although, if another franchise weakens the Aussies a bit more, then the Lions and Cheetahs might not be propping up the bottom of the table anymore
5 Mar 2009, 18:14 pm
#3 church – like chch but pronounceable: Hahahahaha
5 Mar 2009, 18:22 pm
#6 church – like chch but pronounceable: Ridiculous. Now they want a 5th team!! They can hardly make up the 4 teams they have.
5 Mar 2009, 20:25 pm
Rather include a team from Tucuman in Argentina. At least we will get a good fight….
5 Mar 2009, 22:37 pm
Australia can buy in foreign players to play in their fifth franchise in Melbourne.
Daniel Braid (All Black loosie) plays for the Reds already. (Just as the Stormers have a Fijian winger.) They could bring in Pacific Islanders, Argentinians, perhaps even some Europeans and UK players wanting to play in a better competition than their own. Even some South Africans.
Welcome to professionalism!
6 Mar 2009, 00:00 am
This is just Australian rugby attempting to create depth for their national team.
They want to offset the fact they do not have a domestic competition by increasing Aus teams in super rugby at the same time undermine NZ and SA domestic competions.
Why on earth are NZ and SA going along with this?
We should be doing what black panther mentioned and Dave Moffett said, having the domestic comps 1st (currie cup/ANZC/whatever the hell the aussie do) then selecting the best 4 from each nation for a super 12 comp.
This was the domestic comps thrive, and aussie can sort out their lack of depth themselves, not having a weak and boring super 15 prop them up.
Where is the leadership in the SARU and NZRU? There is none it seems, beyond agreeing with whatever s**t John O’Neill spouts
6 Mar 2009, 01:20 am
John O’Neill really isn’t hired to nursemaid SARU or NZRU and to wipe their little bottoms. He’s hired to look after the best interests of Aussie rugby. And that’s what he’s doing. Apparently, with the sort of success that has the Cheeky Watsons and Stofiles and Butane Komphelas of the world gnashing their teeth in impotent envy.
6 Mar 2009, 01:59 am
#9 Puma: Mmm Puma, we need to be carefull, I don’t see our #4 and 5 teams setting the world alight, feck, currently our #3 team is not looking to flash either.
O’Neill is a very good operator and I have to agree with Tackles in post 13, he is doing his job and appears to be doing it very well, where are our esteemed administrators in all this?
6 Mar 2009, 03:24 am
#14 Koos:
where indeed?
Our 2 countries sadly have very weak leaders at the moment.
This expansion will come back to bite us
6 Mar 2009, 03:46 am
#15 eddie: Ed, we can take it a step further, what alternatives do we have? People bemoan the loss of long tours, reality is it does not have a place in the professional era and will never be back.
I will go further and say, even if it hurts, that the CC and NPC do not have a rightful place in the professional era. We may want our bread buttered on both sides but we can’t!
What I see for the future is an expanded Super x where the CC and NPC forms part of the bigger comp. The short of it, local derbies will count towards a ‘local log’ and when the Sx is finished we carry on with another round or play some semies and a final for the CC. We should look outwards, not inwards and like it or not, O’Neill is on the right track, not just for Oz but for the SH.
6 Mar 2009, 03:56 am
Bring on the Melbourne Rebels… a gimme!
And fill them up with Japies…
6 Mar 2009, 04:05 am
#17 money_man: Must be Melbourne, surely. They only just missed out to the Force…
I also think you will have to find some other names to fill the team with, most Japies in SA retired last year! Maybe try Kobus or Beast or something…
6 Mar 2009, 04:08 am
#1 BlackPanther:
You’re so full of it pal… the New ltd owned Melbourne Storm average well over 14000 punters each game that around half of the new Olympic Park’s capacity and 70% of the old… with their record attendance being well over 30k a few years back…
What’s that they say about 70% of stats being made up on the spot… eish!
As a Rebels member of the now defunct club… we had around 5k turn up for just the opening game of the season and were growing from strength to strength with memberships around 26000 by the time O’Neill pulled the plug…
The home games had that real festival feel with some quality players and we were in the top half of the comp… all that in the fledgling year with **** TV coverage…
Pull the other one… club rugby is big in Vic… and they will be the next Aus team if there is one…
6 Mar 2009, 04:18 am
#18 Koos:
This was the squad of mostly up-n-coming youngsters (now all back to work/study and Sydney club rugga) and only ARC… you can imagine what S14 money would buy…
Name Club / Super 14 team Position
Luke Burgess NSW Waratahs Half-back
Scott Cameron Sydney University Prop
Nick Churven GPS Hooker
Matt Cockbain GPS Flanker, lock
David Croft (captain) Queensland Reds Flanker
Luke Cross GPS Centre
David Dennis NSW Waratahs Flanker
Jack Farrer Sydney University Centre
Dave Haigh Sydney University Flanker
James Hanson University of Queensland Hooker
Nick Hensley Sydney University Hooker
Michael Hobbs University of Queensland Fly-half
Matt Hodgson Western Force Flanker
Digby Ioane Queensland Reds Wing, centre
Dan Kelly Sydney University Fly-half
Heamani Lavaka Easts, Sydney Prop
James Lew Norths, Sydney Centre
Shawn Mackay Randwick, Sydney Flanker
Filipe Manu Souths, Brisbane Number eight
Jon McGrath Western Force Half-back
Damon Murphy Brothers, Brisbane Wing, fullback
Peter Owens Sydney University Wing
Dan Palmer Southern Districts, Sydney Prop
Peter Playford Brumbies Rugby Wing, centre
Mike Ross Easts, Sydney Prop
Liam Shaw Norths, Sydney Lock
Richard Stanford Brumbies Rugby Lock
Nathan Trist Sydney University Wing
6 Mar 2009, 04:48 am
#20 money_man: Ehh not sure what you trying to tell me there MM…the reality is however that everyone laughed at the Force and thought they will be a dud team, they not world beaters but are doing better than most.
Reds suffered the most but compared to pre Force years not that much worse…and how much ‘worse’ than the Lions and Cheetahs?
6 Mar 2009, 04:50 am
More boys
Yes JON is just doing his job of being a pushy b*gger – our people must push back. He canned their domestic comp & do they even have “Australai A” anymore ?
Bring the Argies in & let them join 3N next year – at least they play our kind of rugby !
Blues v Sharks ought to be a sensational game … so naturally it will follow that ABC Asia-Pacific won’t show it
6 Mar 2009, 04:52 am
#22 Rugby_Princess: More RP, come over, it is shown at my place…
6 Mar 2009, 05:03 am
#23 Koos:
More koos
Yes, but are you allowed to watch or will you be doing chores ?
6 Mar 2009, 05:06 am
#24 Rugby_Princess: Wellllll…if my chores are not done I can always record it!
6 Mar 2009, 05:35 am
#24 Rugby_Princess: Besides, with you there to help me we should finish a lot quicker…
6 Mar 2009, 05:48 am
#25 Koos:
Record ? Like many things in life … not the same as “live”
#26 Koos:
I have to do chores now ?
Bet there will be no snacks & beverages allowed either
6 Mar 2009, 05:58 am
#27 Rugby_Princess: Feel free to make some snack…after you finished the dishes as part of the chores…I will check the fridge, don’t worry!
6 Mar 2009, 06:16 am
#28 Koos:
Sorry, I am famously “domestically disabled”
6 Mar 2009, 06:28 am
#29 Rugby_Princess: Yes, my son uses the same excuse but with a little encouragement he does ok, sure you will to!
6 Mar 2009, 06:50 am
#30 Koos:
Encouragement ?? You mena the wooden spoon you beat him with ?
6 Mar 2009, 07:01 am
#31 Rugby_Princess: Encourage, not beat!
By the way, remember to make extra snacks, Manly will be there and you know he always manage to find some loslyf to join him…luckily for you Vetkoek is still in hospital so not THAT much extra needed.
6 Mar 2009, 07:15 am
#32 Koos:
Manly never makes me do chores … perhaps i should go to his house … & what is a loslyf ? Sounds like loose leaf – those pages that fall out of a book …
6 Mar 2009, 07:24 am
#14 Koos: Morning Koos, Yes agree there I had said that the other day here on that thread that Cheeky wanted a 6th team for SA. I had mentioned there that the S14 should actually be 8 teams or 10 teams the most. Then it would be a super hot competition where we have strength against strength. Not sure if you read my post there. Cheetahs and Lions maybe could join up again. Both are not playing well. Lions playing better this year though but still not good enough. Maybe all 3N should just have 3 teams. That way each team will or should be full strength.
Also less teams in the S14 not only makes it a better competition but we could start it in March like they want too. Better playing in the heat in SA and OZ that time of year is dreadful.
Maybe Oz should start their own Domestic competition that way they wont need for a larger S14.
Also would be a real shame to mess with our CC. That competition should just stay as it is and not incorporate it into this. Last year our CC final was magnificent.
Think most of this has to do with TV and extra money for OZ. Not sure just a thought.
6 Mar 2009, 07:34 am
#34 Puma: I did see it Puma, it is all about money and unfortunately cutting teams will not bring in more. They will have to expand…
#33 Rugby_Princess: His house?! You are aware he is back in my garage after the last ‘accident’ he had at his place…not sure about the details but it had something to do with Vetkoek and a hosepipe, I did not ask but she is in the hospital and he is in my garage…
6 Mar 2009, 09:27 am
#35 Koos:
Oohh … Well he did not say “where” his house was these days … So, if I come to his “house” – you will be providing snacks & beverages ?
6 Mar 2009, 12:12 pm
I think that expanding the super 14 will do no good for rugby in general or for it’s supporters.
Remember when the currie cup had all the teams competing – EP, Border, Griffins etc etc? Well I didn’t watch a game, the standard of rugby was piss poor and the super 14 is heading that way.
I totally agree that our domestic leagues should be played first, scrapt the vodacom cup then get rid of these ridiculous incoming tours. When last has a northen hemisphere team sent a full strength side? We can then play a super 12 with the top 4 qualifiers from each country’s local league. This will add interest in both the local game as well as concentrate player resources in 4 competitive teams.
Expanding the super 14 is a short sighted way of generating more money, they are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Make some tough calls for the betterment of all.
6 Mar 2009, 12:47 pm
#19 money_man:
Is that right, MM ?
From a little research, I think you find that the average attendance for the Storm was 8,000. Given that the Storm have been Champions (2-3 times ?) including Preliminary Champions, meaning home final games, the stats clearly show that their average crowds were grossly inflated by those Finals attendances. Furthermore, if you looked at the stats for any other team that regularly made Finals, their crowds would be atleast triple that. Doesnt that tell you something ?
It is true that I had not reseacrhed that point before posting, but instead relied on my 2 Victorian work-colleagues. They attended Storm games themselves and said that attendances of between 3-5,000 were the norm, and that Victorians only really came out in bigger numbers for a few marquee matches during the season and then the afforementioned Finals series (ie only when theyre winning).
So perhaps you were right, but I dont think Im totally wrong either. Victorians are sport-mad but you have to question whether they have reached saturation point with the number of non-traditional (for the locals) sports already. That was my point.
Im interested to hear that ‘club rugby is big in Vic’. Really ? Please name me 1 Victorian representative rugby player. Ever.
Western Australia was the obvious 4th team given their migrant (mostly Safa) population. But Victorians dont given a sh*t for anything other than Rules, as far as Im aware.
6 Mar 2009, 13:12 pm
Ja nee, it seems inevitable that this conference-style competition will come to haunt us in 2011. Oz will also get the 15th team, probably Melbourne.
Is this a wise decision? NO
Let’s just stand back and consider it for a moment or two:
First, we all recognise that none of this Super rugby would be possible but for the TV broadcasters, right? If not, then who? So, any change must make “cents” for the broadcasters.
Will the broadcatsers be interested? Well, let’s see who will actually be interested in the local conference games, home and away. Certainly NZ and Oz will not watch SA games, and vice-versa. As such, less enthusiasm means less money, which means the broadcasters will not like this very much.
After the coference-type games the real rugby, the Super 6, will kick-off. That will equate to 3 games a weekend for 5 weeks, plus a final (no need for semis then). The real competition will be over and done in a mere 6 weeks.
The broadcasters will not go for it – not enough games on TV to justify the expense to them.
6 Mar 2009, 13:32 pm
#39 Xavier:
You talk FAR too much sense to be a contributor on this blog. Please extricate yourself !
Ive been saying it all along:-
Domestic Comps -> Qualifying Top 4 or 5 teams -> Draft System (thereby including all top players) -> Super15.
Why on Earth have these conferences ?! Isnt the beauty of S14 is that its an International Tournament ? I want to watch my domesttic rivallries in my domestic competition, I dont want to turn around and watch those same rivalry games all over again.
With teams QUALIFYING, you get variety, ala Heineken Cup. Variety, as they say, is the spice of life and the fans will get interested again. Interest equates to broadcasting dollars !!!!
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