Will Boks bash Lions?
23 Apr 2009
What do you think of the British & Irish Lions squad?
Let SA Rugby magazine know and you could win a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses.
You can also tell us how you rate the Boks’ chances, your ideal Bok XV, and where you think the Test series will be won and lost.
Send your letters to judge@hsm.co.za and keep them to 400 words or less.
Last month’s winner was Gareth Deniner, who had this to say about the Lions tour:
I am a little concerned at the degree of confidence that Clinton van der Berg showed in his column (SAR143) about the Lions tour. I hope that the prevailing view back home (I’m a South African living in London) is not sprinkled with the same unhealthy dose of over-confidence.
While I agree that southern-hemisphere rugby still holds pre-eminence over the northern-hemisphere variety, we should note the recent uptick in performances, by the Celtic nations in particular.
Of the four players Van der Berg mentioned (Paul O’Connell, Donncha O’Callaghan, Mike Blair and Andy Powell), I think only O’Connell and Powell will make Ian McGeechan’s starting line-up. McGeechan is a seasoned, experienced Lions coach and it is precisely this kind of dismissive writing-off of his players that he uses to create the laager, ‘us-against-them’ mindset that has come to typify successful Lions tourists. Also remember: he picks teams to beat the opposition, not just the strongest XV on paper.
There are a number of players who could cause the Springboks trouble. Guys like the imposing Mike Phillips (who matches Fourie du Preez for a solid mix of physical presence, power and speed), Ronan O’Gara (who plays as flat, if not closer to the advantage line, as Ruan Pienaar), Jamie Roberts (who has impressive pace off the mark in midfield), Euan Murray (who, with the exception of BJ Botha, is pound-for-pound the best scrummager in world rugby right now), the towering presence of Alun Wyn Jones (Bismarck du Plessis had better get his throws straight at the lineout) and of course, big-name players like Shane Williams and Brian O’Driscoll. McGeechan also possesses significantly greater know-how and tactical nous than his Bok counterpart.
The Boks under-estimated the Lions in 1974 and in 1997 and we all know what happened then. So please, let’s not give McGeechan and company something to stick up on the wall of their dressing room.
31 Comments
23 Apr 2009, 10:03 am
They have impressive forwards but the fact that two tests are played at altitude might negate that somewhat.
Its not the ability of the players that worry me that much, but the ability of their coach.
He knows what it takes to win here.
As for ideal Bok team (if you can pick any Bok eligible even overseas)?
1. Beast
2. Smit
3. CJ
4. Bakkies
5. Victor
6. Schalk
7. Juan
8. Spies
9. Fourie DuP
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. Jean
13. Jaque
14. JP Pietersen
15. Stefan Terblanche
16. Bismarck
17. BJ
18. Danie
19. Muller
20. Kockett
21. Pienaar
22. Steyn
23 Apr 2009, 10:06 am
#1 PissAnt: Come on Pissant, anyone can just list a Bok XV. E-mail us 300-400 words explaining why you would go with that team.
23 Apr 2009, 10:06 am
#1 PissAnt:
Steyn at 10 is insane. Nightmare at Horrorville.
23 Apr 2009, 10:09 am
#1 PissAnt:
I see you have Steyn at 10 and 22. Is Morne your 10 or is Frans? Clarity?
23 Apr 2009, 10:10 am
Made a mistake, 22. should be Adi.
Extended squad (30 total)
23. Guthro
24. Bekker
25. Kanko
26. Brussow
27. Wynand Olivier
28. Jongi Nokwe
29. Steyn (Frans)
30. Zane Kirchner/Odwa Ndungane
23 Apr 2009, 10:11 am
#3 Triple Eish: #4 Triple Eish: #4 Triple Eish:
Morne Steyn
23 Apr 2009, 10:12 am
#2 Simon:
Ag okay Simon, when I get a moment I will.
23 Apr 2009, 10:14 am
#6 PissAnt:
You had me wobbling for a mo. Frans Steyn ain’t a 10.
23 Apr 2009, 10:16 am
#8 Triple Eish:
Nope, currently he won’t even be in my match 22.
23 Apr 2009, 10:21 am
#6 PissAnt:
Make sure they pay you.
23 Apr 2009, 10:26 am
#9 PissAnt:
Maybe Frans Steyn should start a string of hair salons?
Seriously, I don’t think Stef Terreblanche is a test 15 anymore. He was aweful against the Saders. Yes, he is allowed one **** game but is he truly the man to play 15 vs the Lions? Mmmmm, don’t know about that one. I need to see the Bulls vs Sharks game before I truly say Terreblanche is the man.
I think Frans Steyn should play 15 for the Boks.
23 Apr 2009, 10:28 am
Pardon me…Terblanche and not Terreblanche.
23 Apr 2009, 10:31 am
The Boks have a poor coach.
They’re in trouble. Big trouble.
And they came stone last in the 3N.
23 Apr 2009, 10:35 am
#11 Triple Eish: Stefan has been very solid in all facets. He deserves and has earned a last hooray.
François is the most overrated player. No doubt he is very very versatile and he has these incredible moments. But for the most there are better.
Problem is how do you drop him without giving him the chance to retain his position.
23 Apr 2009, 10:35 am
#13 TheTackler:
And the All Blacks did not even make it past the 1/4 in the World Cup and you still have the same coach.
Enjoy your trans-tasman/asia comp from 2011.
23 Apr 2009, 10:36 am
#13 TheTackler: k@k man, ons het 3de gekom laas jaar!!
23 Apr 2009, 10:36 am
#5 PissAnt: Who would you use as cover for 15 from the bench? I’m not sure that Stefan has 80 minutes at test level in him. Although I do agree with you that on current form he is the best FB in the country.
Your thoughts on Ludik for the future?
23 Apr 2009, 10:36 am
#12 Triple Eish:
Terreblanche is more into equestrian sports is he not……
23 Apr 2009, 10:43 am
#18 Bul-a Bhloo: Some, but his dressage skills are questionable.
23 Apr 2009, 10:43 am
#5 PissAnt: Do you think its wise to have 3 scrumhalfs in you match 22? Why not have Pienaar to cover 9 and 10, Jacobs to cover 12 and 13 and Frans Steyn or even Ludik to cover 12-15?
Same goes for the forwars on the bench. I would go for Danie to cover 4,5 and 8 and then Brussouw to cover for the two flankers?
23 Apr 2009, 11:02 am
#2 Simon:
Here you go Simon, all I have time for unfortunately today:
The British and Irish test series in South Africa will be exactly as the name suggests, a test – something we have not seen the likes of in many years.
No inch will be taken or given and if you think either team will run away with the results you are gravely mistaken.
Two things stand out about the Lions for me.
One they picked a very physical, direct type of player to make up their (quite extended) squad of players. Their intentions are clear, they are going to come with a physical onslaught the likes we have not seen from a Northern Hemisphere team on SA soil in many years.
Two they have a coach who knows exactly what it takes to win in South Africa – he has done it before and in his team of managers and coaches, he has individuals who has played against South African teams quite a number of times in the past.
McGeechan will leave nothing to chance, bet your house on that.
For South Africa we have to firstly respect this Lions outfit and bear in mind they will come with one mission and one mission only, to humiliate the World Champions as representatives from the Northern Hemisphere.
It is therefore vital that we not simply pick players or a team to play ‘the type of game we want to play’ but that we have to plan for what the Lions will throw at us, and counter that.
I took into consideration that two tests will be played at altitude which will be in favour of the Boks.
It is also vital that we pick players that can play ‘test rugby’, and although we have a plethora of talented players in this country who excel at Super rugby level, it is not test rugby, or at least not test rugby as we are used to.
My South African team and extended squad therefore has a mixture of being physically dominant without losing too much on mobility and sheer natural talent. Therefore experience plays a vital part in my selections as do proven combinations. A goal kicker with an average of at least 75% is also non-negotiable.
You have two players in this squad not currently playing in South Africa but who to my mind will be vital to the cause.
Springbok Match-day 22 (numbers in brackets indicate what positions they cover, GK is goal kicker options).
1. Beast
2. John Smit (1)
3. CJ van der Linde
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith
8. Pierre Spies
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morné Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. JP Pietersen
15. Stefan Terblanché
16. Bismarck du Plessis (2)
17. Jannie du Plessis (3)
18. Danie Rossouw (5, 7, 8)
19. Johann Muller (4)
20. Rory Kockett (9)
21. Ruan Pienaar (10, 15)
22. Adi Jacobs (13, 14)
Extended Squad (Max 30 players)
23. Guthro Steenkamp (1)
24. Andries Bekker (5)
25. Ryan Kankowski (7, 8)
26. Heinrich Brussow (6)
27. Wynand Olivier (12, 13)
28. Jongi Nokwe (11, 14)
29. Frans Steyn (12, 15)
30. Odwa Ndungane (11, 14, 15)
23 Apr 2009, 11:06 am
#17 Scrumdown: #20 KingPaul:
My post at 21 might answer your questions on my thinking behind it all.
23 Apr 2009, 11:07 am
I am goign to be rather controversial and suggest that I wouldn’t play Schalk against the Lions. My picks for the back row would be Pedrie, Danie (at number 8) and Juan (Brussouw an alternative). The reason I say this is that it is horses for courses and I believe with that trio we have some excellent tacklers and ball players. We may lack in speed but judging from the Lions picks the breakdowns are not going to be our biggest problem. We will need to win our own scrums and lineouts and put their ball under pressure.
23 Apr 2009, 11:08 am
Farkin smileys – the guy in the shades is supposed to be the number 8
23 Apr 2009, 15:27 pm
#23 bananaboy: Dont we need a fetcher ? You have listed 3 carriers …
I would play Shalk, Juan and Luke. I believe Shalk and Juan will show up in the big games. I dont like Luke but he has the experience now I hope to stick to his job.. Didnt Brussow play end of year tour last year ? If it was him he was tossed around vs Eng. Also have Danie on the bench vs NH.
23 Apr 2009, 15:35 pm
1.Beast
2.Smit(C)
3.Jannie DuP
4,Botha
5.Matfield
6.Burger
7.Smith
8.Spies
9.FdP
10.Pienaar
11.Habana
12.JDV
13.Adi
14.JPP
15.Kirchner
16.Bismarck
17.Guthro
18.Brussow
19.Rossouw
20.Kockott
21.J.Fourie
22.Steyn
23.Carstens-(BOLTER)
24.Bekker/Muller
25.Kankowski
26.O.Ndungane
27.Terblanche/Ludik
28.Olivier
29.Deysel
***Euen Murray is the only reasonable advantage for Lions pound-for-pound vs Boks.
The rest Boks have advantage/class throughout
23 Apr 2009, 17:12 pm
PA – It is a shame that Morne has not been given a chance at test level before but he has certianly impressed in the S14 and must be the best flyhalf in SA at the mo. I was hoping for Pretoors to regain some of his old form as he is a great contender for the Boks in the SH not the NH, but maybe a risky choice right now!
But with PDV sorted on Ruan playing, i am getting rather worried. The British Lions have 2 world class kickers in Jones and O Gara, if Paterson was there we would be in serious poo, i am worried about Ruan’s kicking average for the Boks.
If i was McGeechan i would have brought silver boots (Gavin Henson) to play alongside O’Driscoll and kicked the Boks stukkend. All the Lions would have to do is frustrate the Boks in the scrums and force penalties and with Paterson and silver boots, both of them can lick from within their own half.
23 Apr 2009, 23:37 pm
#23 bananaboy: Its obvious that teh Lions want to put us under pressure at scrums and lineouts- traditionally our gretaest strength, hoping that this will demoralise us. In order to do this, they have chosen very big players.
We need to counter this by
a) making peace with teh fact that set piece domination is not everything
b) being all over them like a rash at the breakdowns.
Depending on the Lions choices, I would counter their big running flankers with two mobile, groundhog flankers like Stegman and Brussouw, whoa re also good tacklers. And back them up with Spies. Schalk and kanko to come on when their big heavy legs are tired, to break tackles and run them ragged.
We also need to make sure that our props are way more mobile than theirs. And teach our pack to hunt together at a faster rate than the Lions.
Beast gives nothing away in the scrums but is as mobile as a flanker. Ditto Bismark. The other prop would need to be John Smit as Captain. Perhaps he could lose a few pounds between now and then?
Bakkies is mobile and big, as is Victor, so we lose nothing there in terms of moblity or set pieces.
As far as the backs go, the only real question is 15. Stefan is good, but we need to use this series to get some high level experience into our future man. Frans Steyn at 15 – it is stupid and wasteful to not have him there popping over drop kicks from the halfway line every time they leave a kick infield. It just blocks a defensive option for them. And its points for jam for us.
His huge kicks would demoralise any play for territory by them through kicking. And if they tried to run it instead, they would get tackled by our mobile pack, and our groundhogs would snaffle turnover in their own half.
As far as the 9/10 axis goes, we need FdP for his smart kicking to keep them pinned back in their own territory – and then see above. Ricky to make breaks against tired legs in teh second half. Butch and Ruaan are also both good territorial/strategic kickers.
Once we are on attack in their half, at flyhalf we need direct runners, and creative distributors/kickers to keep their defensive lines guessing. Both Butch and Ruaan can do this (with Butch being slightly better at directness).
Morne Steyn is not creative (grubbers, chips, etc) enough or direct enough.
Peter Grant cannot do the territorial kicking properly.
Willem de Waal is not direct enough, nor a good enough distributor.
Frans Steyn is not creative enough and does not vary his play enough. Although he can surpirse occasionally. He is also a slow decision maker. Definitely a 15, where he has more time and space to use his size and speed to join and break lines.
24 Apr 2009, 00:04 am
1. Beast
2. Smit
3. CJ
4. Bakkies
5. Victor
6. Brussouw
7. Juan
8. Spies
9. Fourie DuP
10. Pienaar
11. Odwe NDungane
12. Steyn
13. Adi
14. JP Pietersen
15. Jacques Fourie
16. Bismarck
17. BJ
18. Danie
19. Kankowski
20. Kockett
21. Kirchner
22. Grant
24 Apr 2009, 06:24 am
The Boks should smack this lot of limp wristed speed bumps. Let’s get it in perspective. The Lions are to provide the RWC Champions with three training runs before they have to meet some real footballers from NZ and NZ fourth XV (OZ).
24 Apr 2009, 07:53 am
what rules will the series be played under?
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