Showing respect
15 May 2009
Jake White, writing in SA Rugby magazine, explains why the Boks mustn’t underestimate the Lions.
The Springboks should beat the British & Irish Lions this year and gain revenge for the Test series defeat in 1997.
The Boks have a settled team with lots of Test caps, a respected captain, and a coach who has been in the job for more than a year (unlike Carel du Plessis, who faced the Lions very early on in his stint).
Fortunately, it seems as if the Boks have learnt from 1997. They will have a very good build-up to this Test series, with a match against a Namibia XV (that could include overseas-based Springbok contenders Butch James and CJ van der Linde) and by the time the Boks arrive in Durban in June for the first Test of this series, they should be more than ready.
In the 1997 series, the Boks scored nine tries to three, but lost because of poor goal kicking. I hope they don’t make the same mistake again. The Boks need a sharpshooter like Percy Montgomery, so that the Lions know if they concede penalties in their own half they will be punished on the scoreboard.
Then there’s the altitude factor. In 1997, the Boks lost both the Tests played at the coast before claiming a convincing victory in the third match at Ellis Park, so I’m glad we will play two Tests on the highveld this time round (the second match at Loftus and the third at Ellis Park). These conditions will suit our quicker players like Pierre Spies and Bryan Habana, while the Lions will have to adapt to the thin air which makes breathing more difficult and allows the ball to go further off the boot.
However, the Boks must not underestimate the Lions like they did in 1997 when the tourists struggled in their earlier tour matches against our provincial sides. They will still have to play to their potential to win the series – the Lions certainly won’t just roll over.
In Ian McGeechan, the Lions have a coach who knows how to win in South Africa. He did it as a player in 1974 and as a coach in 1997, and I’m sure that’s why he got the job again. He’s a great tactician and I know he won’t leave anything to chance.
How well the Lions perform could depend on whether they decide to give the captaincy to Paul O’Connell and not Brian O’Driscoll. History shows that they’ve always posed more of a threat when they’ve had a lock in charge in South Africa – look at Willie John McBride in 1974 and Martin Johnson in 1997.
The Lions will also have to pick a big, physical tight five if they want to compete with their Bok counterparts. Gone are the days when small props like Ian ‘Mighty Mouse’ McLauchlan, who came to South Africa in 1974, could make
a big impact at Test level.
I think that McGeechan’s life has been made a lot easier by Ireland somewhat unexpectedly winning the Six Nations. If Wales had defended their title – as many expected them to do – he may have had to include more Welsh players in the squad, especially with Warren Gatland, Shaun Edwards and Rob Howley in the Lions management team. However, he can now select the best players from each Home Union, with Ireland sure to have good representation.
– Read Jake White’s column every month in SA Rugby magazine
43 Comments
15 May 2009, 08:09 am
Dragons!
15 May 2009, 08:14 am
Respect in deed… only the form 22 in RSA to be played…
15 May 2009, 09:35 am
Is this the same Jake who bragged in Dublin that only 3 Irishmen would be in his Bok team and who, 24 hours later, had to eat humble pie after the Paddies utterly whacked his team by 32 to 15?
15 May 2009, 09:38 am
#3 TheTackler:
Yes the one in the same… multiple IRB coach of the year, RWC winner and 3N winner… in a 3rd world country…
15 May 2009, 09:52 am
pretty well written article, interesting as always.
i see JW is stressing a sharpshooter as well.
quite interestesting that he feels the Lions will need to pick a big tight 5 to compete with the bok tight 5.
15 May 2009, 12:49 pm
#4 money_man:
You mean the same guy that never won in NZ,who is the same guy that has held multiple wooden spoons for the 3N,and is this the same guy that needed an Australian coaches help to win the RWC……..hmmm i think i know of him. 8)
15 May 2009, 13:41 pm
i remember jake said that the irish wernt good enuff
for the boks but the score was closer than that?
that 32 to 15 was a few years after that
money man i wouldnt call sa
a third world some people get pretty upset bout that
and jake won the tri nations on his first go
\not bad at all
taking over the disater from rudi before him
not bad indeed
15 May 2009, 13:44 pm
even without eddie jones i think the boks\would
have won the world cup anyway
but still nothing wrong with seeking help from others
the best prepared will win. early bird gets the worm
and so on
15 May 2009, 13:46 pm
jake only has 2 3n wooden spoons
the first time he won it second time the boks
came second
15 May 2009, 13:46 pm
#6 Hurricane:
Witty for a Friday.
15 May 2009, 14:27 pm
#4 money_man:
Won his sole TriN having not won away and only on pts-diff.
Never beat NZ in NZ.
Beat France only once – at home – out of 5 attempts.
Only beat Aus away once.
Couldnt complete the Grand Slam.
Yeah, he won the RWC. But without facing the 3 teams he had losing records against – NZ/Aus/Fr.
Personally, the fact he won the RWC against a background of political interferring (Luke Watson, quotas etc) is the most commendable of Whites achievements.
15 May 2009, 15:05 pm
#6 Hurricane: SERIOUSLY, why dont you guys p1ss off to another site?!
15 May 2009, 15:08 pm
#11 BlackPanther: He didnt face those teams in the WC because they werent good enough to get thru to play the mighty Boks.
I wish we had though – the form that the Boks showed in that world cup, they would’ve beatne NZ, France and Aus.
Would shut you Kiwis up too – although you would’ve probably invented another “Suzie”
15 May 2009, 15:08 pm
beatne = beaten
15 May 2009, 16:08 pm
ja that pisses me off kiwis r welcome here
but if your going to just make trouble then
hou jou bek
15 May 2009, 16:32 pm
#15 klippies101:
Dont go getting all tribal on us. Its not ‘causing trouble’ its ‘providing balance’.
The point was – White was a very good coach, but………
Not
White was a sh*t coach.
Personally from this era, I rate the best Bok coaches as follows =
1. Kitch Christie.
unbeaten run.
RWC
beat the best teams (Aus/France/Blacks)
2. Nick Mallet
unbeaten record-equalling run
beat Aus & NZ home and away.
TriN (’98)
3. Jack White
RWC but against weaker opposition than ’95.
TriN on pts/diff
Thats just my opinion. Where would you place White in modern pantheons of Bokke rugby ? And, if in the same order as me, then why are you not ‘making trouble’ and I am ?
because
likes of you and
#13 bokfan1:
BokFan1
believe that criticising a Safa is ‘making trouble’ altho seem to have open license to criticise them yourselves. And, if you took any notice of anything I else I personally wrote, you’ll notice I also provide cutting ‘balance’ to my own teams too.
So, who are your greatest Bok coaches and in what order ?
15 May 2009, 17:22 pm
ok that was fair blackpanther i over reacted
iam sorry
jsut seems some people on here insted of giving an opion
which is of course welcome
some jsut seem saracstic and nasty
well your right i think the list u put there
i would say is right and spot on
so once again iam sorry
and it makes me cross that people fight on here
cant we all share our thoughts without attacking others
15 May 2009, 17:26 pm
the only thing with kitch is though he won the 95 world cup\
and beat 3 great teams aussies all blacks and france
he never won off sa soil and since mallet pdv is the only
coach to bet the all blacks in nz
which really i think jake white laid the foundations for
that to happen jake built up the boks to win in nz
he spoke of it many times and how he wanted that to happy
just sad it didnt happen for him
jake built a new winning culture in the boks
he lifted there spirits after the nightmare season of 2003
he also cleaned up the boks and removed dirty play
such as biting eye gouging and when i saw the boks play
under white i believed they could win first time for that in a long time
so panther thats my opion i would also like yours
15 May 2009, 17:28 pm
and i hope the lions roar agaisnt the tahs for tonight
15 May 2009, 17:34 pm
as for the lions wearing ligther jerseys lets go back to
the good old days of long sleeve jerseys with collars
none of this skin tight rash vest stuff
the real men of rugby never had breathable super light
wick the sweat away kak they slept in them before a test
used them to mop up the kids puck from the car trip to
the test
now rugby players wear make up and hair dye and shoes
moulder to soot there feet better come on play bare foot
rugby players in those days were so tuff they braaied with
there fingers okes like buck shelford he is a legend frik du preez
15 May 2009, 17:44 pm
#17 klippies101:
every time I open my mouth, BokFan1 & Whatever get all beefy.
Funny, they never comment tho when I am scathing about Kiwi players and teams and coaches.
why ?
#18 klippies101:
all those things you said about him, I sorta agree. I phrased it a different way at #11 in that he achieved what he did despite political interferring. Certainly no AB or Aus coach, or any for that matter, have had to deal with what White did.
Im sorry, but I still gotta weigh up opposition and where his teams beat them. For that reason, I dont rate him as high as Kitch or Mallet. He also suffered record defeats, home and away, vs Blacks.
#20 klippies101:
love that name, Frik du Preez.
His name resonates in NZ akin to what Pinetrees does. I think Piney recognises Frik as his greatest foe.
Buck Shelford. eish. Just unfenbelievably tough. Crazy Maori.
15 May 2009, 17:46 pm
thats true 49 nil game was insane
15 May 2009, 17:49 pm
i have frik du preez book and colin meads writes a small pice in there
frik was an amazing player he could jump high enuff to
grab on to thw cross bars on a rugby field while standing still
i think rudi visage is another tuff guy a monster also
15 May 2009, 17:51 pm
and thats also very true under white he had a shocking
record against france they beat us at home in the cape
and the backline sucked under jake he built a forwards based team
at least pdv tries to get the okes to run the ball more
15 May 2009, 17:52 pm
once the rush defence was worked out by other sides the boks
under jake had to work hard for there wins
15 May 2009, 17:53 pm
#21 BlackPanther: Because I (cant speak for Whatever) dont care what you say about your own players, thats your entitlement as a NZer.
And what you post about SA players on other sites is not our problem either.
But to come onto an SA site – and one that many players and coaches read too – and insult our country and players is not condoned and will be challenged at every occurence I see it.
Its rude of you. Plain and simple. In South Africa you dont start insulting your hosts when you are a guest in their house (an analogy, before you start raving about SA not owning the internet).
I would NEVER post derogatory things about the ABS on Silverfern for example. That is a NZ site. Plain and simple
15 May 2009, 17:53 pm
#22 klippies101:
and when you say “removed dirty play”, I think you meant ‘replaced Corne Krige as Capt’.
That guy was a thug, Im sorry. All the nasty tricks in the book, of which Bakkies seems to have perfected in a subtler form. Now dont go getting beefy again, Id pick Bakkies every time too. Every team needs a nail to sort things out. Why do you think Brad Thorn keeps getting selected – his good looks ?
15 May 2009, 17:55 pm
#24 klippies101:
wash your mouth out. You just spoke 100% truth.
Whites backlines were U G L Y.
cmon, De Wet Barry couldnt pass a urine sample.
15 May 2009, 17:56 pm
#26 bokfan1:
Exhibit no1.
No further questions.
15 May 2009, 17:56 pm
#16 BlackPanther: Doesnt matter who my top Bok coaches are.
You wouldnt know cos you list #3 as “Jack White” Who is that?
You would only try to insult them or bring the ABs into the conversation.
To be fair, you do offer balanced approaches and posts often, and you’re not scared to say when ABs are bad.
15 May 2009, 17:58 pm
#28 BlackPanther: Good point about Barry – he was good for the firsy few years, but eventually got so predictable with the crash ball. Maybe did one too many crashes, so the wires were a bit loose…
There were potentially better #12s in 2004.
15 May 2009, 17:59 pm
#29 BlackPanther: Good man
15 May 2009, 18:01 pm
Now dont go getting beefy again,
dont worry panther i wont i asked for your opion
and you have a right to say it as long as its not a personal
jab at me or nasty or sarcastic
bakkies was dirty once i think he is alot cleaner now
as for the abs i feel they have dirty locks ali williams
quck to throw a punch i rember he decked the sharks captain and
brad thorns spear tackled smit the bok captain
as u said before white never beat the major teams in the 07
world cup but we beat arg who beat france who beat the all blacks
andf we beat england who beat the wallabies does that count
15 May 2009, 18:03 pm
#30 bokfan1:
oh, he’s down to e’s where theyre supposed to be and misplaced c’s now.
Gee, you got me BokFan1. You win.
Happy now ?
15 May 2009, 18:10 pm
#33 klippies101:
I dont believe criticising a player/team/coah is personal. Unless it IS personal. Hey, Ive lost count of how many Safas joke about Joost and the coke-snorting hooker. mmmmmm, and the rugby context of that is ?!
If you ever find me criticising outside the boundaries of rugby, you have the right to go bananas. Beefy even. Otherwise, just take it on the chins fellas. Bakkies would.
For the record, Argentina were the best team SA beat at RWC 07. And the Boks (and Blacks) have never lost to Argies. That England team they met in the Final were a bunch of sorry *sses, nothing you say will convince me otherwise. They got up for their no1 traditional foe – Australia – just as much as France got up for their greatest foe – All Blacks. Watch what happens every single time the Frogs beat the Blacks – the next match, theyre as limp as 2 week old celery.
15 May 2009, 18:50 pm
I’d just like to lay down a few facts about Jake White. He had to rebuild a Sout African side that over four years could scarcely score double digits against any of the top sides, and regularly where trashed. Kitch Christie had legendary players. Even those players would admit that Kitch was not a great coach on technical grounds. It was his man management that came to the fore. That’s what the Boks of that day needed. Mallet, a great coach ran out of steam. However, still an oustanding coach, arguably our best to date. Jakes achievements far surpass his failures. He has great forsight, planning, and man management skills. He is someone who brought diginity to a sporting nation that was laughed at.I remember the flak we took in the media.
1.Winning the Tri Nations (2004)
2.Winning the World Cup (2007)
3.Taking South Africa from 6th on the IRB World Rankings (2003) to 1st (2007)
4.IRB International Coach of the Year (2004, 2007)
5.Biggest score ever achieved by a Springbok side (134-3 against Uruguay in 2005)
6.First home series win against France since 1975
7.First victory over the All Blacks at Newlands since 1976
8.Consecutive wins against Australia and New Zealand for the first time since 1998
9.Most successful South African team at home in the history of Springbok rugby, undefeated at home in 11 tests (they would extend this streak to 13)
10.First South African team to beat Australia 3 times in the same year since 1971
11.First South African team to beat Australia in Australia since 1998.
BlackPanther, you were incorrect regarding Jakes record against France. It isnt 1 in 5. They only ever played 3 matches. It’s one win a piece and a draw. That loss was in Paris when there was ice on the pitch. I’ll never forget that game. So there you have it. Jake, managed to do all of this in spite of the daggers that were driven into his back. He also gave more black SAns “opportunities”, more than anyone else to this day. He always conducted himself in a dignified way, and thusly was a great ambassador for South Africa. Also, quoting him as bragging that Ireland were inferior is incorrect. The journalist asked him who he would drop if he could have an Irish player. He said none, displaying faith in his players. What idiot would talk down his players in the week leading up to a test? If you want arrogance then look at this from Peter De Villiers…
“Structure in rugby came from Australia which doesn’t have a lot of rugby talent,” he said.
So there you have it. Jake White and Nick Mallet are the best coaches we have had since readmission. Either one could be viewed as the best.
15 May 2009, 19:05 pm
#36 TheAristocrat: Now just before I pack my lap top.
Have to agree with you there. Well said mate. I also rate Jake. He did give us the pride back in the jersey. Was a dignified man too spoke to the press with good manners. Also taught his team to be humble all the time. Jake had good qualities.
15 May 2009, 19:08 pm
The thing with England is that they may not have the best players. But they are a very proud nation (in general), they have an ability to play beyond themselves. In a knockout game, those kinds of opponents are a serious threat. Just look at Fiji, when a team has the mental strength to lift themselves, nothing is impossible. Whereas the All Blacks had so much ability, but were so frail, psychologically speaking. We also had physically the toughest schedule of all teams. Just look at New Zealand in 2003. One big game against the Boks and they are, as BlackPanther may put it, as limp as two week old celery. That took a lot. That WC win in ’07 was a WC worthily won. It’s very sad that so many people will talk down one of the few positive things SA has done in this decade, for the sake of taking a swipe at Jake.
15 May 2009, 20:06 pm
andre pretoor is playing so well today he should be the bok number
10
16 May 2009, 00:11 am
#36 TheAristocrat:
Nice cut’n'paste directly from Wikipedia, Aristocrat.
So why didnt you check the facts on the same page, before you took the pedestal ?
Whites Boks vs France – Played 4. Played 1. Lost 2. Drew 1.
25% record of success.
Only win was at home. (nb the ‘Series win’ in Wikipedia refers to 1-1 in SA)
Just like the man said.
As for whether his ranking as a coach is also misappropriated, this from Stephen Jones in todays The Times, UK.
Not, in this case, entirely just like the man said. But fairly close.
Top 20 coaches of all time
1. Ian McGeechan (Scotland, Lions, Northampton, Wasps) – no doubts. In terms of longevity, great one-off wins, Test glory and trophies, the rest are lagging way back.
2. Fred Allen (New Zealand) – dynamic coach behind a dynamic team, the 1967 All Blacks, full of rugby nous and brilliance.
3. Sir Clive Woodward (England) – ah, say the know-alls. He wasn’t really a coach. He dominated the southern hemisphere with England and won the World Cup. You’d love a non-coach like that.
4. Bob Dwyer (Australia) – epic builder of the 1991 World Cup team and allowed genius to flourish.
5. Carwyn James (Llanelli and Lions) – sadly, never had the chance to show longevity but the absolute master of New Zealand with the 1971 Lions.
6. John Hart (New Zealand) – his All Black team of the early 1990s was brilliant and, although the era owed something to Laurie Mains, it was Hart who was the genius.
7. Ray Williams (Wales) – father of modern rugby coaching, master strategist at the birth of the profession.
8. Jack Rowell (Bath and England) – did not quite bring his A-game to England, who were hidebound at the time, but sheer, perennial brilliance inspired Bath’s greatest days and years.
9. Graham Henry (Wales, Lions and New Zealand) – didn’t quite complete the job with Wales or, in 2003, with New Zealand, but a master, who may yet fulfil the dream.
10. Nick Mallett (Everyone) – has coached too many good teams in too many different environments to be deemed anything less then outstanding.
11. Warren Gatland (Waikato, Wasps, Wales) – a prophet without honour in his own land but steely and cutting to the chase and winning trophies elsewhere.
12. Marcelo Loffreda (Argentina) – could easily have been higher. A sensational coach of the sensational 2003 Pumas.
13. Declan Kidney (Munster and Ireland) – Heineken Cups and a Grand Slam. What else is there, exactly?
14. Bob Templeton (Australia) – the finest of men and finest of coaches, a giant of a previous era.
15. Robbie Deans (Crusaders and Australia) – the master of Super Rugby and now reviving the Wallabies successfully.
16. Jacques Fouroux (France) – sat at the wheels of a giant tractor in France, he won a Grand Slam on the back of a huge pack, pipping Pierre Berbizier in France.
=17. Jake White and Kitch Christie (South Africa) – you cannot argue with a World Cup.
19. Paul Turner (Bedford, Rugby, London Welsh, Sale, Saracens Gloucester, Harlequins, Dragons) – the man with all the contacts and coaching skills, and none of the budget, still keeping the ball in play at Newport.
20. Mark Bates (clubless) – giant in every sense, IT master, effective with Slow Ball and Silly Six.
16 May 2009, 03:01 am
Jake is right. Bok fans expect a win like me but I would be a bit cautious.. I want a win but we need to keep an open mind..
16 May 2009, 10:26 am
#11 BlackPanther:
It ain’t White’s fault the Aussies, France and NZ CHOKED… Bok’s beat all that they fell to!
18 May 2009, 16:38 pm
#35 BlackPanther: Some very good points there BP!
The ABs have never lost to the Argies, and Eng and France were limp after their efforts in downing the 2 antipodeans.
Point remains though they they COULD defeat NZ and Aus.
The Argies were up for it in the Semis and SA crushed them.
SA was on such good form in that WC that they would’ve beaten anyone. You could see it on their faces and you could feel the aura around them and the confidence with which they played.
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