The ABs have never lost to the Argies, and Eng and France were limp after their efforts in downing the 2 antipodeans.

Point remains though they they COULD defeat NZ and Aus.

The Argies were up for it in the Semis and SA crushed them.

SA was on such good form in that WC that they would’ve beaten anyone. You could see it on their faces and you could feel the aura around them and the confidence with which they played.

It ain’t White’s fault the Aussies, France and NZ CHOKED… Bok’s beat all that they fell to!

Nice cut’n'paste directly from Wikipedia, Aristocrat.

So why didnt you check the facts on the same page, before you took the pedestal ?

Whites Boks vs France – Played 4. Played 1. Lost 2. Drew 1.

25% record of success.

Only win was at home. (nb the ‘Series win’ in Wikipedia refers to 1-1 in SA)

Just like the man said.

As for whether his ranking as a coach is also misappropriated, this from Stephen Jones in todays The Times, UK.

Not, in this case, entirely just like the man said. But fairly close.

Top 20 coaches of all time

1. Ian McGeechan (Scotland, Lions, Northampton, Wasps) – no doubts. In terms of longevity, great one-off wins, Test glory and trophies, the rest are lagging way back.

2. Fred Allen (New Zealand) – dynamic coach behind a dynamic team, the 1967 All Blacks, full of rugby nous and brilliance.

3. Sir Clive Woodward (England) – ah, say the know-alls. He wasn’t really a coach. He dominated the southern hemisphere with England and won the World Cup. You’d love a non-coach like that.

4. Bob Dwyer (Australia) – epic builder of the 1991 World Cup team and allowed genius to flourish.

5. Carwyn James (Llanelli and Lions) – sadly, never had the chance to show longevity but the absolute master of New Zealand with the 1971 Lions.

6. John Hart (New Zealand) – his All Black team of the early 1990s was brilliant and, although the era owed something to Laurie Mains, it was Hart who was the genius.

7. Ray Williams (Wales) – father of modern rugby coaching, master strategist at the birth of the profession.

8. Jack Rowell (Bath and England) – did not quite bring his A-game to England, who were hidebound at the time, but sheer, perennial brilliance inspired Bath’s greatest days and years.

9. Graham Henry (Wales, Lions and New Zealand) – didn’t quite complete the job with Wales or, in 2003, with New Zealand, but a master, who may yet fulfil the dream.

10. Nick Mallett (Everyone) – has coached too many good teams in too many different environments to be deemed anything less then outstanding.

11. Warren Gatland (Waikato, Wasps, Wales) – a prophet without honour in his own land but steely and cutting to the chase and winning trophies elsewhere.

12. Marcelo Loffreda (Argentina) – could easily have been higher. A sensational coach of the sensational 2003 Pumas.

13. Declan Kidney (Munster and Ireland) – Heineken Cups and a Grand Slam. What else is there, exactly?

14. Bob Templeton (Australia) – the finest of men and finest of coaches, a giant of a previous era.

15. Robbie Deans (Crusaders and Australia) – the master of Super Rugby and now reviving the Wallabies successfully.

16. Jacques Fouroux (France) – sat at the wheels of a giant tractor in France, he won a Grand Slam on the back of a huge pack, pipping Pierre Berbizier in France.

=17. Jake White and Kitch Christie (South Africa) – you cannot argue with a World Cup.

19. Paul Turner (Bedford, Rugby, London Welsh, Sale, Saracens Gloucester, Harlequins, Dragons) – the man with all the contacts and coaching skills, and none of the budget, still keeping the ball in play at Newport.

20. Mark Bates (clubless) – giant in every sense, IT master, effective with Slow Ball and Silly Six.

Have to agree with you there. Well said mate. I also rate Jake. He did give us the pride back in the jersey. Was a dignified man too spoke to the press with good manners. Also taught his team to be humble all the time. Jake had good qualities.

1.Winning the Tri Nations (2004)
2.Winning the World Cup (2007)
3.Taking South Africa from 6th on the IRB World Rankings (2003) to 1st (2007)
4.IRB International Coach of the Year (2004, 2007)
5.Biggest score ever achieved by a Springbok side (134-3 against Uruguay in 2005)
6.First home series win against France since 1975
7.First victory over the All Blacks at Newlands since 1976
8.Consecutive wins against Australia and New Zealand for the first time since 1998
9.Most successful South African team at home in the history of Springbok rugby, undefeated at home in 11 tests (they would extend this streak to 13)
10.First South African team to beat Australia 3 times in the same year since 1971
11.First South African team to beat Australia in Australia since 1998.

BlackPanther, you were incorrect regarding Jakes record against France. It isnt 1 in 5. They only ever played 3 matches. It’s one win a piece and a draw. That loss was in Paris when there was ice on the pitch. I’ll never forget that game. So there you have it. Jake, managed to do all of this in spite of the daggers that were driven into his back. He also gave more black SAns “opportunities”, more than anyone else to this day. He always conducted himself in a dignified way, and thusly was a great ambassador for South Africa. Also, quoting him as bragging that Ireland were inferior is incorrect. The journalist asked him who he would drop if he could have an Irish player. He said none, displaying faith in his players. What idiot would talk down his players in the week leading up to a test? If you want arrogance then look at this from Peter De Villiers…

“Structure in rugby came from Australia which doesn’t have a lot of rugby talent,” he said.

So there you have it. Jake White and Nick Mallet are the best coaches we have had since readmission. Either one could be viewed as the best.

I dont believe criticising a player/team/coah is personal. Unless it IS personal. Hey, Ive lost count of how many Safas joke about Joost and the coke-snorting hooker. mmmmmm, and the rugby context of that is ?!

If you ever find me criticising outside the boundaries of rugby, you have the right to go bananas. Beefy even. Otherwise, just take it on the chins fellas. Bakkies would.

For the record, Argentina were the best team SA beat at RWC 07. And the Boks (and Blacks) have never lost to Argies. That England team they met in the Final were a bunch of sorry *sses, nothing you say will convince me otherwise. They got up for their no1 traditional foe – Australia – just as much as France got up for their greatest foe – All Blacks. Watch what happens every single time the Frogs beat the Blacks – the next match, theyre as limp as 2 week old celery.

oh, he’s down to e’s where theyre supposed to be and misplaced c’s now.

Gee, you got me BokFan1. You win.

Happy now ?

dont worry panther i wont i asked for your opion
and you have a right to say it as long as its not a personal
jab at me or nasty or sarcastic

bakkies was dirty once i think he is alot cleaner now
as for the abs i feel they have dirty locks ali williams
quck to throw a punch i rember he decked the sharks captain and
brad thorns spear tackled smit the bok captain

as u said before white never beat the major teams in the 07
world cup but we beat arg who beat france who beat the all blacks
andf we beat england who beat the wallabies does that count

There were potentially better #12s in 2004.

You wouldnt know cos you list #3 as “Jack White” Who is that?

You would only try to insult them or bring the ABs into the conversation.

To be fair, you do offer balanced approaches and posts often, and you’re not scared to say when ABs are bad.

Exhibit no1.

No further questions.

wash your mouth out. You just spoke 100% truth.

Whites backlines were U G L Y.

cmon, De Wet Barry couldnt pass a urine sample.

and when you say “removed dirty play”, I think you meant ‘replaced Corne Krige as Capt’.

That guy was a thug, Im sorry. All the nasty tricks in the book, of which Bakkies seems to have perfected in a subtler form. Now dont go getting beefy again, Id pick Bakkies every time too. Every team needs a nail to sort things out. Why do you think Brad Thorn keeps getting selected – his good looks ?

And what you post about SA players on other sites is not our problem either.

But to come onto an SA site – and one that many players and coaches read too – and insult our country and players is not condoned and will be challenged at every occurence I see it.

Its rude of you. Plain and simple. In South Africa you dont start insulting your hosts when you are a guest in their house (an analogy, before you start raving about SA not owning the internet).

I would NEVER post derogatory things about the ABS on Silverfern for example. That is a NZ site. Plain and simple