Spies’s cognitive evolution
15 May 2009
Pierre Spies on his return to form, steroid allegations and his quest to be the best No 8 in the world.
Over the course of our conversation Pierre Spies speaks openly about a range of interesting topics – the pain of missing the 2007 World Cup due to a rare blood disease and how religion helped him stave off depression in that period, life as a newlywed and the benefits of not having to drop his wife off at home after a night out, Schalk Burger’s explosiveness in Test matches despite his laid-back attitude to training, and the won’t-go-away rumours of steriod use – none of which capture the attention more than a simple response to a simple question.
‘Who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’ I ask. I fully expect him to rattle off some boring bullshit like: ‘That’s tough. Ryan Kankowski is an unbelievable player, and that bloke from Wales, whatshisname? Powell? Ja, Andy Powell, that boy can play a bit. And the Irishman, Jamie Heaslip, he’s coming through nicely. Oh ja, and Rodney So’oialo …’
Instead, I’m met with a thoughtful gaze before the most unexpected response. ‘That player is still in the making. It’s me.’
‘Wait a minute, you’re breaking protocol here,’ I say. ‘You’re supposed to sing the praises of the first half-decent players who spring to mind. So, I’ll ask again for fear of misquoting you: who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’
‘Look, I’m not going to make excuses for having confidence in my ability,’ Spies fires back. ‘If you look at the guys out there, not much separates them. I’d like to think I have that extra bit that sets me apart. I know it’ll be perceived as arrogance, like: “Listen to this guy talking himself up. He needs to learn his place.” That’s the way we are as humans isn’t it? We’re encouraged to aspire to be the greatest, then shot down when we do. But it’s not arrogance. I know my limitations and strengths and I’d like to believe that I can be the best in the world.’
I’m incredulous by now, stunned at what I’m hearing, but completely overjoyed to be listening to a player spitting unbridled truths.
‘I know I have a long way to go,’ he says. ‘But I want to get to the point where coaches, players and the public think about the best No 8s in the game and my name is at the forefront of their minds.’
We’ll discuss the physical and technical evolution of Pierre Spies at length, but from the outset there’s no denying that a cognitive evolution has been at the heart of his return to something resembling his best form.
This is my sixth Spies interview in four years. We’ve spoken extensively about playing on the wing in his rookie Super Rugby season, the death of his father, becoming a Springbok, a nightmarish debut Test and how that was the catalyst for his transition from man-child to man, an outstanding 2007 Super 14 campaign which culminated in him kneeling down on the King’s Park turf thanking God, who he communes with regularly, and his decision to specialise at eighthman.
But this is the first time I encounter this Spies. He has progressed beyond the self-effacing kid whose offerings were often a hybrid of the mundane and clichéd. There’s a self-belief that was missing or concealed in his formative years. A self-belief that allows him to confidently share his vision of being the best No 8 in the world.
Evolution in the world’s elite players is triggered by an evolution in their mindset. The body is at the complete mercy of the mind and since the end of the 2008 season Spies’s mind has been barking orders at his body with the intensity and relentlessness of a commanding officer in the US Marine Corps.
My previous encounters with Spies mean I’m well aware of how physically imposing he is. I’m no expert on conditioning, but to my mind he had reached his physical ceiling prior to the 2007 World Cup, so I’m fully expecting a man mountain to come striding through the doors of a cafe close to Loftus, where we’ve agreed to meet, but wholly unprepared for what I am about to encounter.
I interviewed Spies in Cape Town just before news of his illness broke, and then it seemed the Boks’ kit manager would have to put in an order for custom-made apparel. No professional sportsman, I thought, could get more muscular than that. At least not naturally. But we’ll delve into that nagging issue in a minute.
Yet Spies is bigger and even more imposing than he was 18 months ago. He looks like a lab experiment who had spent that period doing nothing more than being intravenously pumped with protein and lifting weights the size of a five-year-old. My hand disappears in his as we greet and I catch myself measuring my thigh and wondering if it’s bigger than his bicep. Brutal honesty leads me to the conclusion that it is, in fact, not.
I’ll throw some stats your way to underline the majesty of the beast who has just declined a meal and a Coke, preferring mineral water instead. ‘I’ll eat later,’ he says. ‘What? A baby rhino?’ I wonder. Spies power cleans 135kg. He dead lifts 240kg. He bench presses 165kg. Only mildly impressed? Wait, here are some more. He is able to do pull-ups with a 50kg weight between his legs. He can launch his 108kg body 1.4m onto a raised platform, sprints for 835m before slowing on a repeated sprint-ability test and has a body-fat percentage of 6.5.
‘Pierre has been blessed with amazing genes and has maximised those,’ Bulls conditioning coach Basil Carzis says. ‘As humans we don’t really know what our full physical potential is. We think we’re pushing the limits but the reality is that we’re not even close most of the time. Pierre refuses to die wondering.
‘Mediocrity doesn’t sit well with him. In the gym he pushes himself to lift the most, jump the highest and run the fastest. We have competitions between teams in the gym and you’re feeling pretty confident if Pierre is on your side. Physically he’s well above the norm. I’ve heard the term freak used to describe him and that’s probably accurate.’
But there’s a nagging thought in my mind: What if this freak is a drug cheat?
Since the modern era of drug testing began at the Pan Am Games in ‘83 I’ve seen more elite athletes banned for the use of performance-enhancing substances than I care to remember. I recall sitting transfixed as US sprinter Marion Jones took gold at the Sydney Olympics 100m final in 2000, wondering who on earth would ever be as quick, and I watched juiced-up baseballer Barry Bonds hit his 654th career home run at Yankee Stadium, craning my neck to see the ball land in the car park outside. Gods among mere mortals, I thought. Floyd Landis, Ben Johnson, countless swimmers, weightlifters, cyclists and sprinters … drug cheats the lot of them.
Everything inside me wants to believe that Spies is different. I want to believe that true athletic phenoms, ones with no intruders in their bloodstream, still walk the earth. He speaks candidly about the rumours which have dogged him throughout his senior career and, rightly or wrongly, I’m sold.
‘What can I do about those rumours? Nothing,’ he says with a resigned tone. ‘I can’t shape what people think. But those people who make those sorts of allegations aren’t there with me in the gym when everyone else has gone home. They don’t see what I eat, the lengths I go to to look after my body. They’re not there when my mates are going partying and I turn down the invite because I know it will affect the way I train. They’re not there. They don’t see what sacrifices I make.’
OK, let’s establish something: this is not an article hailing the arrival of a Messiah. Spies is flawed and doesn’t at any stage attempt to plaster over the cracks in his game. At 23 it would, of course, be grossly unfair to expect him to be flawless, as it would at 24 or even 25.
Yet such is his extraordinary talent that we continue to judge him by an exaggerated standard. It’s partly his own doing. How dare he raise our expectations of him with performances like he delivered against England at Loftus in 2007, or more recently, in the Super 14? Silly boy. How dare he give us glimpses of heaven then facilitate our return to a reality that pales in comparison.
‘I set a high standard for myself but at times it seems like I have to make 15 linebreaks, 100 tackles and score five tries carrying four defenders on my back across the tryline,’ Spies laments. ‘I want to be a player who dominates matches because I don’t think I do yet. It’ll take time but I will get there.’
Heyneke Meyer is the authority on Spies. Before he resigned as the Bulls’ director of rugby in 2007 he’d been considerably more than Spies’s coach. He was and remains a father figure and confidant.
‘He’s been phenomenal recently – really, really good – but we haven’t seen the best of Pierre yet, not even close, and won’t for a couple of years to come,’ Meyer says. ‘He was great in 2007 but mentally his illness would have slowed his development. He’s showing glimpses of his best form again, but it’s important to keep in mind everything he’s been through and the fact that he’s only 23.
‘Physically he’s superb and in this regard is unmatched by any No 8 in world rugby. He doesn’t have all the technical skills of a great No 8 yet, but whenever he gets his hands on the ball he has an explosive quality that you just can’t coach. Give him a year where he stays injury free and he’ll become the best No 8 in the world.’
No analysis of Spies would be complete without the insights of former Bok coach Jake White, who watched Spies being buried alive on debut (the 49-0 hammering by the Wallabies in Brisbane in 2006) and then saw him kick the casket lid open, dust away the soil, and stride purposefully into the rest of his Test career.
‘People are talking about him like they did when he arrived on the scene in 2006,’ White says. ‘I think Pierre is back to where he was when he was playing his best rugby in 2007. The second try he scored against the Blues [in the Super 14] was a replica of the one he scored against England in 2007 at Loftus where he busted through four tackles. It was sensational and gave me goosebumps.
‘But we have to remember that he still needs to mature as a player. He’s so big and strong we forget how young he actually is. People see him as something that he’ll be one day, but isn’t yet. He’ll get mentally stronger and that will bring about improvements across the board. It’s not that he disappears in tight games as is the perception, it’s that he’s not as mentally tough as he will be when he’s 26, 27, 28. He’ll learn the shortcuts and when he does, performances like the ones against England and the Blues will become the norm.
‘He has all the attributes to become the best No 8 the world has ever seen.’
By Ryan Vrede
– The new issue of SA Rugby magazine will be on sale next Wednesday. To subscribe, go to the shop on the keo.co.za home page.
94 Comments
Pages: [1] 2 » Show All
15 May 2009, 08:01 am
See, even Spies knows who the best 8 in the world is, Kanko Dragon!!!
15 May 2009, 08:08 am
Clone this man immediately for future Bok 7,8,11, 14′s…
15 May 2009, 08:16 am
#1 coma:
Comprehension lacking a bit there hey?
Read again s l ow l y…..
”I fully expect him to rattle off some boring bullshit like: ‘That’s tough. Ryan Kankowski is an unbelievable player, and that bloke from Wales, whatshisname? ”
Kanko is a lightweight compared to Spies. Kanko is to 8th Man what vd Berg is to locks
15 May 2009, 08:20 am
bloody great talent. can only hope he reaches his potential and is not exploited at provincial and national level.
i’m still sceptical about the steroids claims. to wipe that murky past clear he might need to present blood test records to prove innocence.
my biggest hope is that he does rise to the occasion and become a formidable 8 for the 2011 WC.
15 May 2009, 08:22 am
Believe in himself is Freak……. got that from dad. Saw some very very bad comments about this guy on this site but as one who knows him from a laaitie in grade 7 i can honestly say i see his dad in him. This guy is just a honest kid…ok a big one!
Hou hom dop oor so 2 jaar.
Het baie repek vir Ouboet en ek verstaan presies wat hy sê….vir jare het Pierre Snr ons dit geleer en ek is bly Ouboet vergeet dit nie.
Gaan GROOT Freak… gaan GROOT! Jy lewe net 1 keer!
15 May 2009, 08:26 am
Pierre SNR wasn’t that great. The boy knows his strengths are his size and speed, but he knows his biggest weakness is how he can often go missing in the game.
I don’t percieve him as being arrogant. As long as a player believes in himself and contunously strives for perrfection, I’d say he’s on the right track
15 May 2009, 08:29 am
#5 Staal:
Regte teling, bloedlyn is 100%
As jy pedigree is, dan is jy n pedigree, al kom pis die ander brakke soms teen jou stamboom…
Daai Engelse bulhond van my is dieselfde, die ander honde pis soms bo-oor hom waar hy le en slaap, dan maak hy net sy een oog oop en loer hulle so, maar as hy die slag rerig opstaan dan **** jy net keffers tjank….
15 May 2009, 08:33 am
Funny, when a athlete believes in himself we tend to think he is arrogant.. Look at the top sportsmen of all times, schumacher, bolt, jordan..etc All these guys were “arrogant” but they believed in themselves and backed it up with solid performances..
Spies is a freak and deserves to be the Bok nr 8. He believes in himself but also knows that he still has some short comings and’s working on them. Kanko should move to the side of the scrum with Brussow on the other side.. One mean loose trio!!
15 May 2009, 08:37 am
#7 Pietman: LOL….Amusante vergelyking.
15 May 2009, 08:37 am
#6 Richie:
You ever saw PS Snr play?
I saw him in the Golden Oldies tournie last in Pta,….when he was already age 50, and he ran circles around the boys.
SA hurdles champion in his day.
He just missed out on Springbok colours in rugby, but he was up against the best at that time….. Gerrie Germishuys, Gert Muller, Chris Pope, Edrich Krantz, Ray Mordt, Keith Sweeney (old Griqua here on keo), Tito Kankowski, Judge Jeffreys, Cheeky Watson and those during the golden era of SA wingers.
15 May 2009, 08:39 am
#8 lofty:
No, sorry, Juan or Jean Deysel must be there at #7, or even Schalla or Danie, before Kanko.
Kanko is #8, end of story.
15 May 2009, 08:47 am
Its not arrogance when you back it up on the park.
So go show us on the park Pierre.
15 May 2009, 08:52 am
I don’t understand these constant steroid claims. These players were all tested before the World Cup and the result was clean. Surely that ends the debate.
Furthermore, with his physique drawing so much attention when compared to the norm, he would be utterly stupid to use performance enhancing substances.
Finally, this guy has been a freak when compared to his peers since school level. He was a freak at the SA U/21 champs, and he is still a freak at international level.
It’s not like he suddenly went from a beanpole to a beefcake overnight, ala Percy Montomery in 1997. I know, I know, that was creatine in Percy’s case, but the point is, Pierre has always been physically imposing. Now that he is training even harder, he has merely taken that gift to the next level.
15 May 2009, 08:52 am
#12 PissAnt:
Jou koppie seker nog bietjie seer na die bifday…?
15 May 2009, 08:53 am
Kankowski should play outside center…it´s not a joke !!!!!!!
15 May 2009, 08:55 am
#13 Tacitus:
If Piere moved down to WP today, he would be their No 1 wing tomorrow.
15 May 2009, 08:56 am
#14 Pietman:
Ek het nie meer een nie
15 May 2009, 08:59 am
I have never seen a rugby player with more natural talent.
He has the ability to truly become one of the best ever.
He is an unbelievable physical specimen.
Truly a freak, who only comes along very seldom.
15 May 2009, 09:01 am
#17 PissAnt:
Nie meer n wat ‘een’ nie?
Die hoof, of die hoofpyn, hehehehe!
Pasop vir kopseer egter, daai is n wetter se ding ****…nie pille vir dit nie, al wat help is n stuk vet beesbiltong en n paar koue Hansa Tafels voor die rugby, glo my.
15 May 2009, 09:02 am
#7 Pietman:
15 May 2009, 09:04 am
#19 Pietman:
Die ding wat my kop was is nou net so dowwe geswelde ding wat ritmies klop…
15 May 2009, 09:04 am
En ek is besig om niknaks te eet…
15 May 2009, 09:09 am
#22 PissAnt: :lol
15 May 2009, 09:23 am
“He is able to do pull-ups with a 50kg weight between his legs.”
His poor wife.
15 May 2009, 09:36 am
#13 Tacitus:
It’s called ‘tall poppy syndrome’…
#3 Xkreni-WP:
1cm difference in height and 2kgs in weight… or are you talking about their packages?
15 May 2009, 09:39 am
#25 money_man:
I don’t understand what you are referring to. What is called tall poppy syndrome?
15 May 2009, 09:45 am
Spies is king.
15 May 2009, 09:47 am
All the Sharks fans who claimed Kanko was the best 8th man in the world based it upon a few fantastic tries from his own half early in the season. If scoring tries from your own half was the only pre-requisite to rugby greatness, Richard Bands would be the worlds greatest prop and we all know that isn’t true.
The best no.8 in SA is a simple race between Danie Rossouw and Spies. These two are far more powerful, abrasive and direct than Kanko or Watson. Spies shades it on the old maxim “All things being equal speed is king” but Rossouw is a serious contender because he is also great back up for Bakkies and as a utility forward can cover 4 positions.
Back row for Lions tour:-
Spies
Burgher
Smith
Kanko(r)
Rossouw(r)
Watson is a shoo in if either of these are injured despite Brussouw’s great season.
15 May 2009, 10:05 am
”jake white who watched spies buried alive…and then saw him kick thr casket lid open, dust away the soil and stride purposefully into the rest of his career” geez ryan, what dramatisation, have you been watching a lot of the supernatural series lately?!
So spies did this signature try of his in 2007 only to repeat it in 2009, is it safe to safe the next time we’ll see it will be during the world cup in new zealand in 2011? In the mean time he will keep disappearing in tight games, knocking on, basically being the ordinary pierre spies of every day not the one that is being compared to michael jordan…
15 May 2009, 10:07 am
#29 Transformation:
Ryan went to a good Model C school and needs to practice his English Higher Grade composition.
15 May 2009, 10:15 am
Dawn – Ryan tried model c, but ended up at a special school for models.
15 May 2009, 10:26 am
Pierre knock-on Spies. Still young and a muscled freak – time will tell if he will become a great 8. Btw read in todays paper Spies has released a dvd… guess we wont be seeing a certain blogger for some time…
15 May 2009, 10:26 am
even
us porras
are **** scared
of spies
15 May 2009, 10:31 am
#31 Slappes:
Foeitog man.
Ryan is so eloquent he could be the male Jane Austen!
15 May 2009, 10:46 am
Dawn – ryans first novel ..*** pride and prejudice?
15 May 2009, 10:52 am
#35 Slappes:
Jy’s mislik met Ryan.
Charo is here next week … am supposed to organise something.
Almal is so slapgat.
15 May 2009, 11:09 am
#18 tight head:
Natural talent? Ha ha! He has great physical attributes sure, but how you equate this to talent is beyond me.
If you equate talent to skill then you’re still wrong as players like Watson and Brussouw are far more skillful and even miss less tackles than Spies. Brute physicality does not equal talent and Spies still needs to work more on his skill set to be a complete player.
15 May 2009, 11:16 am
#37 Cyborg:
watson
is only skilled
at one
thing
and that is
at being
dumb
15 May 2009, 11:20 am
#29 Transformation:
yawn…. you are clearly suffering from whine flu…
15 May 2009, 11:25 am
Never has a player who has achieved not so much been so worshipped, the obsession with his physical attributes is so to forgive my french ***.Even Lomu himself wasn’t discussed like this.
15 May 2009, 11:48 am
Ryan,
Barry Bonds hit his 654th home run at Pacific Bell Park now known as AT&T Park in San Francisco the other side of the country.
Time will tell if Spies is the best.
15 May 2009, 12:02 pm
#40 The_duke: try telling gunther that…he’s probably salivating over spies’ alleged new dvd…lol
#30 Dawn: that email address, still want it?
15 May 2009, 12:02 pm
#40 The_duke:
bru with a nickname like the duke lets not be throwing the *** word around…
15 May 2009, 12:11 pm
#37 Cyborg:
Hey Cyborg, what else is beyond you?
15 May 2009, 12:13 pm
#43 GUNTHER;
I have clearly hurt your feelings and I apologise,
#42. TRANSFORMATION
Whats the soundtrack,Its Raining Men or I will Survive. lmaol(no pun intended)
15 May 2009, 12:42 pm
#42 Transformation:
I remember quite clearly what you said to me when I made a similair remark about you and your Aswell Prince poster… “stuff you (unfortunate choice of words) and all who sail with you” you were quite upeset hhhmmm I think I know a little boy who can dish it out but can’t take it…
15 May 2009, 12:55 pm
#45 The_duke:
don’t worry….I’ll just cry myself to sleep with my Pierre Spies action figure..
15 May 2009, 12:59 pm
I wonder who SPies is blowing at keo or SA Rugby Mag. We are forever hearing how great he is. How talented he is. How we cant leave him out the team. I will repeat my questions that I always ask.
Has anyone done a proper analysis on how many tackles he breaks, how many tackles he makes, etc. vs other 8′s in the country and then in the world. Then we rank him. He dissapears when the game is loose and misse too many tackles for the hype that surrounds him.
Sure he does freakish things like scoring that try against England, but Earl Rose also does freakish things.(Good and bad) The point is not to blow smoke up his arse and always reporting on him on touchy feely things that you know his supporters will salivate on. Rather back up your articles with facts and dont be biased on the negative reporting on certain players as compared to others.
The way i see it Fransie Steyn and Pierre Spies have been the welcome recipients of very average and eager journalism that only reflects their value in terms of potential and not on cold hard facts.
15 May 2009, 13:25 pm
funny thing is i saw spies in a hotel last year and he ddint
look that big i saw him only for a seconf
but i do beleive is a talented amazing player
and i know he is big u can see it on tv the thickness of
his arms
15 May 2009, 13:45 pm
#46 gunther: good memory gunther, i was peeved @ the slelectors & ur smart@ss comment wasn’t helping, the selectors finally saw their faux pas & reinstated ashwell, so i was vindicated…
Now your story with pierre is a mystery to me but it’s clear you’re more than enamoured with the dude…lol
Pages: [1] 2 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.