No clarity on fullback quandary
12 Jun 2009
Dick Muir says they haven’t settled on who will play at fullback for the Test series as yet.
This, with just a week to go before the first Test at King’s Park.
The void was created by an injury to Conrad Jantjes, who will miss the remainder of the season after breaking his leg in the Super 14.
When the squad was announced in Johannesburg a fortnight ago, it featured no recognised fullbacks, and many were surprised at the exclusion of Zane Kirchner, who had been consistently good for the Bulls throughout their campaign.
Muir said it wasn’t a major concern for them as they had players who were versatile enough to cover.
‘We’ve run a lot of combinations there and we’re sitting with a lot of options,’ Muir told keo.co.za. ‘We’ve ran Earl Rose, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie and Frans Steyn there. So we have a couple of options at the back.
‘The key for us is that the back three are so interchangable, and we’d like to see them drifting between the three roles.’
Fourie is tipped to be the frontrunner for the No 15 shirt, despite playing the vast majority of his career at outside centre. However, with Springbok coach Peter de Villiers apparently reluctant to break up the midfield pair of Jean de Villiers and Adi Jacobs, Fourie could well be forced to front the Lions as the last line of defence.
Whether his tactical game and positional sense is good enough at Test level remains to be seen, but there seems to be consensus among respected commentators that his primary strengths would be nullified, and his weaknesses exposed, should he play at fullback.
Strangely even Pietersen is being spoken about as having a stronger chance of starting at fullback than Steyn, who has played there for the Sharks and Springboks, does. Pietersen has all the same limitations as Fourie at 15, while Steyn’s big boot and previous experience in the position should have him as one of the main candidates to fill Jantjes’ boots.
Meanwhile, Muir has rejected the suggestion from Lions forwards coach Warren Gatland that they will be ‘undercooked’ and ‘rusty’ for the first Test, given their limited game time leading into the series.
‘No, I’m not worried about that,’ Muir said when asked if it was a concern. ‘It was part of our planning.
‘The players have come off a heavy Super 14 so the break has probably done them a world of good, and it’s a side that has played together for a string of Tests now, so I can’t see it being a problem.
‘We may be a little under-prepared from a match situation point of view, where the Lions would have played five in a row. But that also has its downside in terms of injury disruptions, whereas we know what our settled unit will look like.
‘It’s such an experienced squad that the guys don’t take long to piece things together. I think we are ahead of where we first envisioned ourselves being at this stage.’
Asked for his impressions on the Lions Muir said they were ‘balanced’, noting that they used the ball well, and move it around to full effect. However, he did lament the poor showing of the South African sides who’ve faced them, saying it hindered their attempts to gain a clear picture of the Lions’ capabilities.
‘They dominate up front and get momentum,’ he said. ‘The disappointing thing though is the ease at which they were able to get that momentum against the South African sides, so we can’t really judge how good they are.’
Despite Lions coach Ian McGeechan’s attempts to keep his thoughts on his run-on side a secret, Muir said they had a good idea of the composition of the tourists’ starting 15 for the first Test.
‘I believe that side that played on Wednesday will be pretty close to their Test side, probably about 11 or 12 of them will play in the Tests. But whatever is thrown at us, we’ll be prepared for them,’ he said.
By Ryan Vrede, in Durban
46 Comments
12 Jun 2009, 16:40 pm
They’ve been struggling for ages to find a place for F Steyn in the squad…….looks like opportunity knocking to me
12 Jun 2009, 16:48 pm
so i still have a chance then?
12 Jun 2009, 16:55 pm
I. Want. To. Cry.
Or punch something.
Or both.
No plan fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants, bullsh!t!
I hope it’s mindgames.
But I reckon that’s wishful thinking on my part.
12 Jun 2009, 16:55 pm
#1 Danja:
Agree with you on this. I don’t understand the Bok coaching staff’s eagerness to play guys out of position, what the hell does he mean he sees the back three are “interchangeable”?(!) Has me serious worried when they start sprouting rubbish like this. The problem is so simply solved: If you don’t pick ZK at 15 you pick FS and tell him not to run the ball but to hoof it miles every time he gets it. A out of hand kicking combination that includes FdP, MS/RP and FS would pin the Lions back in the half for most of the game!
12 Jun 2009, 17:00 pm
#4 Thameside Bok fan:
More power to you.
Preach it brother.
Frans Steyn has the boot, but can attack from deep too, perhaps as well as any of the others.
Even when Jacques Fourie was playing fullback for the Lions as a lightie, his kicking was absolutely woeful.
JP’s is dodgy too.
And if they start with Rose then why not start with Brussouw?
12 Jun 2009, 17:14 pm
MUIR, WHAT A MUPPET. ANOTHER PLAYER TURNED COACH IN THE STRAULI MOLD.
Get him out of there…..
12 Jun 2009, 17:23 pm
I have no faith in the bok management team…absolutely none.
Cheers, before I suffer a stroke due to the utter incompetence and ineptitude of these morons.
12 Jun 2009, 17:25 pm
1. Mtawarira
2. Du Plessis
3. Smit
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. Rossouw
7. Smith
8. Spies
9. Du Preez
10. Pienaar
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. Jacobs
14. Nokwe
15. Pieterson
16. Steenkamp
17. Carstens
18. Bekker
19. Kankowski
20. Januarie
21. Rose
22. Fourie
I fear this will be the Boks’ first line-up.
Their over-confident belief that the players who have been together for some time will ensure their victory may contribute to their downfall.
But not as much as the brains trust playing players out of position.
If it ain’t broke, don’t change it – improve on it.
12 Jun 2009, 17:28 pm
The line-up that any sane Bok supporter would expect.
1. Mtawarira
2. Du Plessis
3. Smit (no real choice here. I’m choosing a side from the players selected. But I’d prefer to have Smit at hooker with Bismark on the bench.)
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. Burger (if not fit – Brussouw)
7. Smith
8. Spies
9. Du Preez
10. Pienaar
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Frans Steyn
16. Steenkamp
17. Carstens
18. Bekker
19. Rossouw
20. Januarie
21. Morne Steyn
22. Jacobs
12 Jun 2009, 17:28 pm
i have to believe that this is just mind games. i dont believe they would pick a squad, knowing their 1st choice FB is out and not have a very good idea of who will fill the void. my bet is f steyn, with fourie, m. steyn & januarie on the bench
12 Jun 2009, 17:29 pm
Fouries is a front runner because PDV does not want to drop Jacobs who has had an average season. Fourie is no full back and that lack of a kicking game will be found wanting. Lets not be silly by trying to squash the best players in unfamiliar positions. Jacque fourie is a world class center. He is no good at Full back..
12 Jun 2009, 17:29 pm
Oh wait – Brussouw hasn’t been selected.
DOH!
12 Jun 2009, 17:30 pm
I would have thought the Bok coaches would have known ages ago exactly who their first team was… JW knew is a year in advance of the RWC. These guys are so lightweight it’s like holding hydrogen
12 Jun 2009, 17:31 pm
Nokwe’s lack of tackling is a big mistake. Let him come on in the last 20mins.. Nokwe is not designed for such tests as the Lions. They will pile him with the up and unders and he will be found wanting..
Steyn must start at 15.. He has the boot and defence..
12 Jun 2009, 17:32 pm
kak is coming …these clowns are a sick joke
12 Jun 2009, 17:35 pm
PLANNING.
How can you not know who your preferred 15 is one week before a test????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
12 Jun 2009, 17:35 pm
#12 puff: Apparantly Burger’s injury is not as bad as thought…
12 Jun 2009, 17:36 pm
i feel like screaming right now,why in the blue hell is tht moron of a coach so confident that he can play players out of postion without a bloody practise game.he seriosuly wants to play fourie or jpp at fullback against the lions of all teams.WITHOUT ANY KIND OF PRACTICE MATCH WHATSOEVER.
it must be said. I HATE PEITER DE VILLIERS
BRING BACK JAKE WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!
12 Jun 2009, 17:43 pm
#17 Tbozknows:
If there’s an injury cloud over him, don’t play him.
Same goes for Jacobs.
Otherwise, they will have to scramble for an alternative way forward.
I’ll say it again – PLANNING.
All players should know their roles, what positions they are set to fill etc.
12 Jun 2009, 17:44 pm
Selecting an intenational rugby team is not too difficult.
The golden rules are that you select specialists and experience.
Where the problem in getting the balance right arises in SA is when you also HAVE to select a certain number of players without white skins in your match day 22.
That is easy when you have a lot of those players who fit the above criteria, but when you don’t then you end up making selection decisions that are compromised, such as playing players out of position, or playing players who might not yet be ready for international rugby.
12 Jun 2009, 17:46 pm
#18 mbaxman93: I agree. It just shows how “seriously” he is taking this Test series. He is playing with fire as we cannot be experimenting with personnel when the Lions have seasoned professionals playing in every position and are specialists in those positions.
PDV had the chance to bring in Kirchner, and Brussouw but he refuses to take such obvious options. The Bok management job is easy right now as a foundation has been built by a world cup winning predecessor. The team has not changed much, so just play the right players..
12 Jun 2009, 17:48 pm
#20 tight head:
See my post number 8.
How close do you think that will be to the 22?
12 Jun 2009, 17:57 pm
#22 puff:
I would not bet against you being wrong.
I think that is probably the best team on paper in the mind of PDV.
12 Jun 2009, 18:55 pm
My God has Muir not learnt yet? He tried that cu%$ at the Sharks and it proved detrimental and now he’s bringing this cancerous thinking with him to the Springboks.
‘The key for us is that the back three are so interchangable, and we’d like to see them drifting between the three roles.’
NO **** that has been tried and it is not a good option as no one gets to specialise. We’ve been through this and we’ve all seen the results…
12 Jun 2009, 21:34 pm
“we know what our settled unit will look like”
Um, no Muir, you don’t. That’s the problem. You’ve admitted that you and the other muppets have no idea who will be playing at fullback and even less idea who will be playing at openside flank. You’re all a disgrace.
12 Jun 2009, 22:33 pm
bunch of clowns. it is so easy, but they make it so difficult. this is our best team i.m.o( i know it wont happen), but still.
15) Kirchner
14) JP
13) Fourie
12) de Villiers
11) Habana
10) Morne
9) du Preez
8) Spies
7) Smith
6) Brussouw
5) Matfield
4) Botha
3) BJ
2) Smit
1) Beast
stop this stupidity and select the best players in position.
12 Jun 2009, 22:50 pm
#26 JM: Amen to that!
12 Jun 2009, 23:44 pm
The key for us is that the back three are so interchangable WTF???!!
12 Jun 2009, 23:54 pm
#26 JM: almost perfect bro but one change, WO at 12 and JdV at 13 swear, let’s keep the bulls brilliant combos in tact and we will beat them.
13 Jun 2009, 00:41 am
#24 Yetirat: Fully agree with you.
13 Jun 2009, 01:28 am
This is just crazy… what is going on with the bok coaches???
Here we are 1 week before test time and we still haven’t got clariry on some key positions…
Look if the coaches want to experiment, fair enough (although i don’t think experimenting during the B&I Lions tour is the thing to do). What really peeves me off is that they haven’t got backup if their experiments don’t come right…
1) Tighthead, okay, they want to try John Smit, but then who is backup? Surely we should have a seasoned Tighthead if things don’t go right. (Instead they choose 3 looseheads??)
2) Openside Flanker, Schalk is no longer a fetcher, but okay, maybe he can go back to that role. Who is the backup? No, they choose 2 blindside flankers, and 2 eighth men… no fetchers.
3) Fullback; somehow these coaches think that an inexperienced fullback is our best option for fullback. Okay, don’t agree but okay. But at least have a seasoned fullback as backup.
here we go into the B&I Lions test with the jury still out on PDV’s experimental tighthead and flyhalf; no fullback, and from what we can tell, no starting kicker. Worst of all, we are thin on backup on all of these positions. What would Danie Craven say….??
13 Jun 2009, 01:31 am
#26; agree 100% think the rest of the country does as well. Why do our coaches think otherwise?? They have lost the plot.
13 Jun 2009, 01:59 am
It’s incredible.
13 Jun 2009, 02:04 am
Of course they know who they want to play. They are trying to keep McGeechan guessing. That doesn’t explain why they do not have specialists for #3 and #15. It seems unlikely that they would be a last minute call-up to the squad.
On a lighter note, I was amused to hear that Lee Mears was out for a drink with two of his Bath team mates, one of whom was Butch James. PdV should ask him to bring his boots to the match.
13 Jun 2009, 02:22 am
Interesting article: GOOGLE “Sleepless nights for number cruncher”
13 Jun 2009, 02:37 am
#9 puff:
Amen! The key word in that post though is “sane.” Say what you want about the Bok coaching staff but all indications are that they aren’t sane. That side would pretty much be my selection based on the players in the squad. If Burger is injured we simply cannot afford not to select Brussow. I would prefer ZK at FB but FS can do the job and wont disappoint if he is under strict instructions to hoof that pill a mile every time he gets his hands on it. You know if the Bok coaching team picked guys based on nothing other than merit and played to our strengths we’d be the best side in the world bar none for the next 5 years.
13 Jun 2009, 04:15 am
Well, Muir says it has been part of their planning to rest the boys.
Maybe so, but I still think they should have trained at altitude (as Puma said right from the outset).
If we lose the first test, there is going to panic stations all round, like in 1974 when we lost the first test at Newlands by 9 points, and then got completely smashed in the 2nd at Loftus.
PdeV and the boys had better win these average BILions convincingly, with the TriNations coming up…..
13 Jun 2009, 04:37 am
MMM … as a Lions and Boks supporter I just want to see good rugby. I’m starting to lick my lips here because it seems that the plans (or lack of them) are going to even up this series!
13 Jun 2009, 04:48 am
Yarps are sounding a bit worried, hey? Where’s that old “we’ll easily smash them by 50 ” swagger we had to endure before the Lions set foot in SA and smoked some fancied provincial teams?
Swallowed some reality pills?
13 Jun 2009, 08:05 am
#39 TheTackler: Sharp as a marble as ever Tackler, the “yarp” bloggers are worried but our coaches strangley not …
Depressing to think of how good the Boks could be if 100% on merit, ABs would not get close!
13 Jun 2009, 08:39 am
#39 TheTackler: u dont get it ,the boks are still going to win the ,its just the incompetence of our management team that has all the bok fans angry
13 Jun 2009, 08:48 am
The **** that spews from the coaches mouths is astonishing. Mind games my arse. This is from the Streuli playbook. Confuse everyone, the opposition, the supporters, the players and yourselves.
13 Jun 2009, 13:29 pm
FFS **** and Co haven’t a clue. If anyone doesn’t realise this yet then you are smoking good stuff.
**** we didn’t believe you at the Sharks and you still sound hollow. I know with **** it’s all about the limelight.
13 Jun 2009, 14:14 pm
“Strangely even Pietersen is being spoken about as having a stronger chance of starting at fullback than Steyn, who has played there for the Sharks and Springboks, does. Pietersen has all the same limitations as Fourie at 15, while Steyn’s big boot and previous experience in the position should have him as one of the main candidates to fill Jantjes’ boots.”
That is kind of weird is it not. Could it have something to do with the disproportionate and exaggerated bad press that Steyn has been getting. Ryan Vrede being the leader of the blame it on Frans Steyn lynch mob.
13 Jun 2009, 15:10 pm
#44 klingon_x: I feel for Steyn, poor guy has had it rough. I was one of his detractors I admit, but the kid has again been pushed around, this time by Snor.
14 Jun 2009, 04:27 am
#44 klingon_x: The press has been going on about how 10 was not F Steyns position, and calling for him to be moved to 15. No change then…
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