Scrum calls baffle tourists
20 Jun 2009
Ian McGeechan and Paul O’Connell don’t understand why Lions’ tighthead Phil Vickery was penalised to such a detrimental degree.
Springbok loosehead Beast Mtawarira was named Man of the Match for his massive effort at scrum-time, an effort that ultimately allowed the Boks to sneak a 26-21 win at King’s Park. Referee Bryce Lawrence ruled Vickery failed to deal with the pressure and was resorting to illegal tactics at this set-piece.
Bok flyhalf Ruan Pienaar slotted the resultant penalties and these proved telling to the outcome.
‘It was very frustrating between the penalties we conceded and the tries we failed to score,’ O’Connell told keo.co.za. ‘Bryce said Phil was constantly going in on the angle, and to be honest, from where I was it was hard to tell.
‘How such an experienced player could make the same mistake five times in a row is beyond me. And it was the ref against us each time, never them.’
The scrum has been talked up by the UK media as an important area, and on Saturday it proved to be the determining area. Coach Ian McGeechan said it was hard to improve when you’re not sure what exactly you’re doing wrong.
‘It comes down to interpretation. The penalty count killed us, and like Paul said, why would an experienced prop repeatedly do that.
‘We will forward a review of this game to [IRB referee chief] Paddy O’Brien to get these decisions explained, and any issues will then be discussed in next week’s meeting with the referee [ahead of the second Test]. It’s important that we sort this out.’
Despite their gripes and improved showing in the second period, the Lions will head to Pretoria needing a win to keep the series alive. McGeechan said Saturday’s performance has shown the Boks are beatable.
‘We’re disappointed with the result, but we’re delighted with the performance. We were held up over the line three times and if you’re playing South Africa at home, you should be disappointed if you don’t do better to finish.
‘We had consistent scoring opportunities over the 80 minutes and gave away some soft penalties,’ McGeechan said. ‘This gave us a mountain to climb in the second half, and I’m proud of how the boys did.
‘It wasn’t a bad performance, but we just need to turn that pressure into more points. If you look at the quality of rugby we are playing, there’s good reason to believe we can hit back.’
By Jon Cardinelli, at King’s Park
81 Comments
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21 Jun 2009, 04:36 am
#4 Viscount Crouchback: That is exaclty what a lot of BIL supporters wanted last week – penalties at the scrum time when there was clear dominance.
Damn that Beast is a BEAST!
LOL!! “How such an experienced player could make the same mistake five times in a row is beyond me”. WHAT EVER O’ Connell…. When there is no ther way to go but down, then that is what you do…
I hope Paddy O’ Brien tells them to f&ck off, because its pretty obvious what was happeneing…
21 Jun 2009, 04:43 am
#32 peterg123: To overcome the BIL’s rushdefence, the Boks need to stand deeper. Once the pass is past 13, there will be big holes.
I wonder if Schalk will come back now?
We need JdV and Fourie at midfield, or WO and Fourie.
21 Jun 2009, 05:30 am
#36 WakaNathan: No only you might say that, because Beast’s back was straight, and the sheer power of his shove made Vickery crumple inwards. Not illegal by Beast and only dangerous to Vickery if he doesn’t go backwards like a good prop….
Yes the Boks had a few lucky escapes, but you have to admit that it was a play it as you see it kind of game. The substitutons came real early, and disrupted the Boks. But I didn’t really feel that they weren’t in control of the game at any stage until the last 10 minutes. Next week, hoefully Snor leaves the main men on until 65 minutes!
Also next week the Bok midfield defence will have had a bit of practice…
21 Jun 2009, 06:56 am
#47 superBul: I ALWAYS call it like I see it, without fear or favour. Especially favour.
The Bok front row was totally rock-solid until their silly coach subbed on his inferior bench; the Bok midfield leaked like a sieve. And, although they were outscored 3 tries to 2, the Boks totally deserved to win.
21 Jun 2009, 09:12 am
#42 – If there’s one thing I know for sure – it’s that the rugby wheel of fortune turns – Vickery was slobbered yesterday – but – a slight adjustment, change in attitude, different mind-set, etc…etc…can change everything around.
And then….some loose-mouths start regretting their disrespect!!
21 Jun 2009, 10:19 am
#53 TheTackler: The subs yesterday were absolutely shocking.
21 Jun 2009, 10:27 am
#42 Viscount Crouchback: Itsnot gloating over Phil. He is a good player, and has done his time and been a goo dservant to teh game. We are gloating over how ironically the tables have turned since the provincial games and the British spectators were crowing for harsher penalties at the scrums because “ref’s should not try to even them out”.
We are now laughing at the journos and spectators that are crying foul and calling such refereeing incompetent. You reap what you sow I reckon…
21 Jun 2009, 10:29 am
#54 raven: The only disrespect has been the complete underestimation of the Bok front row, that togeher with a lot of self important posturing, has meant that there is a lot of egg left on certain British journo’s faces…
Any comment on the game since then has been purely factual comment, and bit of self defence against sour grapes types calling it illegal.
21 Jun 2009, 10:35 am
One thing I have to commend is the fact that De Villiers has at least admitted he made a mistake. Thats a start.
- There was no need to sub the props, and really Deon Carstens didnt have an impact I would agree with Skop that Werner Kruger should be given an opportunity as a sub.
- Replacing Bakkies with Becker is daft. Becker is a Matfield clone so you lose something by playing 2 similar locks. Becker let Phillips through for his super soft try. Not on.
- Subbing Brussouw with Danie was daft as well. He would have been better to replace Bakkies.
- Spies needs to put in some hard work next week cos he was anonymous
- Januarie – well what can you say? the guy shouldnt even be in the bloody squad. Never mind replacing FDP
- Jacobs was nowhere and Fourie´s lack of game time showed as he slipped some tackles rather uncharacteristically. Reall no use having 2 13´s on the field
- Frans was OK but Kirchner would have been infintely better. Kicking was very average and gave possession away, he was nowhere on the counter attack. Needs to work on it for sure.
21 Jun 2009, 10:41 am
#58 Slumtown: Should never have made them in the first place. The fans know more than him. That is not clever.
21 Jun 2009, 11:00 am
Also some appaling defence from a few players.
- Adi Jacobs slipped Jamie Robertson a few times.
- Becker let Phillips through
- Carstens made a huge blunder in bunching up on BOD with 2 other defenders leaving the line clear for Croft – its so stupid its pathetic
- Jacques Fourie let Roberston through which setup the above try… not good enough Kacques. I know youre rusty but jeez mate. Youre better than that.
- Very bad bunching up on certain players and leaving huge gaping holes in defence. Should not have happened.
21 Jun 2009, 11:02 am
Also credit where its due.. Monye didnt drop the ball – its was knocked out of his hand by Morne Steyns excellent tackle. Make it sound like they just made some elementary mistakes when in fact it was some excellent defensive play by the Boks, badly denied on 3 occasions.
Thats good.
21 Jun 2009, 11:06 am
In fact Phillips´try should have been disallowed as either Croft or Heaslip obstructed Juan Smith from making the tackle – deliberately pushed him with the shoulder.
Dirt little Lions. And they call us cheats. Becker´s blunder in part due to this.
21 Jun 2009, 11:08 am
Sorry that was Matfield being obstructed. Clearly
21 Jun 2009, 11:09 am
Check video at http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2009/06/springboks-take-lead-in-series-against_20.html
8 minutes 21 seconds.
21 Jun 2009, 11:10 am
replay at 8.57 – was Heaslip.
21 Jun 2009, 11:46 am
Tendai got away with murder. The ref was poor at scrum time.
You could clearly see Tendai just after the hit turn into and drive inwards to try and wheel the scrum.
He was totally illegal.
He will get caught out against the Tri nations games and there will be much bleating from bloggers when Tendai gets shown his butt.
First half on at least 4 occassions you see him driving inwards and it was clear as the camera was directly on him. Vickery was trying to counter this illegal move by trying to turn him but could not as he was taller than him in the scrum.
The Lions were hard done by the penalties (coming from the scrum).
21 Jun 2009, 11:50 am
Tendai made it look like Vickery was hitting on the angle when you could see Tendai left leg go out to help him drive inwards after the hit.
21 Jun 2009, 12:26 pm
I feel sorry for the poor Lions! The Boks beat them with being underdone and rusty and a coach that was picked for reasons not entirely related to rugby. That said, the Bok players must be ok! Recon there is also some egg on Hoskins’ face!
21 Jun 2009, 12:31 pm
#64 Slumtown:
Thx, I just watched, great stuff….it made me sweat all over again!
Check the first try, and where our centers were, Roberts just ran through them unopposed….
21 Jun 2009, 13:16 pm
Thought I’ll bring some perspective. With the score 26-7 with 20 to go, who of you thought it was done and dusted? I’ll be honest, I was. I didn’t have a problem with any of the subs bar 1- Roussouw for Broussouw. But even so, one would expect the reserves to have more impact than they did! Can you realy blame Div for also expecting this? But like he said, he won’t be making that mistake any time soon. So, more pragmatism in future!
Re the mid-field. Was their mid-field realy that great or did we just fall-off too many tackles? Even Jacques missed a few. And again… one would expect this to be sorted by nxt week. No matter who he selects. The other thing is as well, we didn’t ask any q’s at the back of their defense. Hopefully, nxt week we play a less conservative gameplan. Actually, now that Brussouw is in the team, Div’s ‘helter-skelter’ gameplan should be the way to go.
21 Jun 2009, 13:21 pm
#70 BokiNZ: Oh! And agree with wallabie. As much as I liked Beast ‘dominating’ the scrum, felt he did so illegally. It was clear that he scrummed inwards.
21 Jun 2009, 13:37 pm
#66
Hey Wallibie you dingo,
Dont be a dill and join the chorus of whingers. Anyway, you’re likely to eat your words when the tri nations gets under way. The Wallabies are pretty ordinary and the all blacks without the likes of their missing fly half dont appear to be up to it.
One might (obliquely) say that no Boks vs Anzac teams should be refereed by Anzac referees. Pretty much pot luck these days. If the Boks do have calls going in their favour it’s most unusual.
So there!
21 Jun 2009, 13:57 pm
#72 Bludeks:
Why do some saffas get so defensive when someone comments on their team.
I am not joining any whinging brigade just pointing out what I saw. Funny how all saffas are okay when a ref is bad for their own team but have an average performance against a losing bok game…all hell breaks loose.
Nah mate…you will be the whinger….it wont take long before you are red in the face whinging.
I am not whinging because I dont follow the Lions at all…more so want them to get beat badly.
21 Jun 2009, 14:01 pm
The forward play in the first half by the Boks was unrelenting and very inmpressive…just felt it was a game plan to ‘play til one drops’.
I felt that if the boks maintained that throughout the game then aus and AB better watch out…but they dropped off. I feel PDV had to make changes. Players were getting tired from the helter skelter.
21 Jun 2009, 15:17 pm
#49 Big Hit:
Hello Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle.
#52 SjamBok:
“only me” huh ?
funny, all the papers today are saying exactly the same thing which is about 12hours AFTER I said it. Yes, every same paper said Beast was awesome, as I did. But also that he was ALLOWED to get away with illegal tactics.
BINGO
watch the replay and see how Beast was going from outside and boring Vickery in on the hooker. Quite obviously illegal. But hey, if he gets away with it – as Lawrence let him nay encouraged to do so – then why not.
#66 wallabie.:
Hallelujah !
Thing is remember, refs are only wrong when they whistle against the Boks
#74 wallabie.:
‘watch out’ ?
did you cut’n'paste that from last year ?
despite losing 1st up TriN matches to both SA and Aus, and losing 13 RWC players, the TriN table, Bledisloe and Grand Slam statistics……..Computer says NO !
zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
21 Jun 2009, 16:37 pm
Hey Wallabie,
You dont seem to be very convincing. Perhaps it should be noted that a fair number of the critical messages are responses to the comments of Lions supporters. Lrt it be known that I support Oz in just about everything but when it comes to cricket or rugby there is always the “agenda”.
You’re in a glass house cobber.
I have the great privilege of being able to support three nations including England (Lions) but you have to face it, their rugby is littered with squawkers!
21 Jun 2009, 18:28 pm
#76 Bludeks:
Funny isnt it. Unless you agree whole-heartedly with the locals, youre deemed to be ‘supporters’ of the opposition and holding an ‘agenda’.
I support one International team and it aint either of these 2. Doesnt mean I havent got an opinion, let alone that as a rugb y fan that this is the only Series worth watching at the moment.
21 Jun 2009, 19:37 pm
#66 wallabie.: Upon reflection based upon the old rules the Beast did a good job & I would have been proud of that performance as a former prop. But with the new rules his technique becomes questionable, i.e. driving inwards. So the real question becomes should he rather than Vickery have been penalised? I still fault Vickery with is experience for not coping with the situation.
21 Jun 2009, 22:25 pm
#78 JimT:
in one !
22 Jun 2009, 03:51 am
#78 JimT:
I agree with you 100%.
Vickery being experienced should have done something about it but being loosehead there is not much one can do. Tighthead prop can bore in and there is nothing a loosehead can do about it purely because of position.
to make matters worse vickery is taller than tendai so that is a challenge in itself.
I believe in the saying…’good on ya if you dont get caught but dont whinge when you do’.
I feel that some saffas think Tendai did a good job and his scrumming was legal….he did a good job but his scrumming was perfectly illegal.
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