Frans favoured for Hamilton finale
9 Sep 2009
Frans Steyn replaces Ruan Pienaar at fullback in the only change to the Springbok side for Saturday’s showdown with the All Blacks.
Pienaar hasn’t been exposed at No 15 in the last two Tests, but he hasn’t exactly made a telling contribution. Peter de Villiers should have stuck with Steyn for the entire Tri-Nations campaign. This would’ve seen a player with a significant kicking game and sound positional sense patrolling the back.
‘It’s a case of horses-for-courses,’ the Bok coach said. ‘With Dan Carter at flyhalf for the All Blacks we are expecting them to kick quite a bit and Frans will be able to play a key role with his big boot.’
Steyn will join Bryan Habana and Odwa Ndungane at the back. Habana is nursing a hamstring injury, but, like No 8 Pierre Spies (groin), is expected to recover fully before Saturday.
De Villiers got it wrong when he dropped Steyn in the first instance. The Boks had beaten the Australasians soundly in South Africa, and Steyn was an integral part of their winning strategy.
The Bok coach can count himself lucky that this All Blacks side isn’t good enough to score eight tries in two Tests. There are other reasons why South Africa underperformed in Perth and Brisbane, but they certainly missed Steyn at the back.
De Villiers cites Carter’s selection as influential to his own decision to drop Pienaar. Suddenly the Boks are not concerned about the future, and suddenly they’re worrying about winning the trophy.
It was a sure sign of shortsightedness when Pienaar was picked for the Perth fixture. Because of Saru’s foreign-player policy, Steyn has jeopardised his World Cup spot by signing a three-year deal with French club Racing Metro. The Bok management, in all their wisdom, took this into consideration when selecting the starting side for Perth. Steyn was dropped and Pienaar, a player who is unlikely to play fullback in future but can play there if needed, was ushered in.
It was an arrogant move. Of course the Boks will rightly blame their lack of forward intensity in Brisbane, but the selection of Steyn at this late date is an admittance to something else that’s been lacking in the two Australia away fixtures.
Steyn should have started until the title was secured. If the Boks had beaten the Wallabies in Brisbane, then De Villiers could have talked about making changes with the future in mind.
That Pienaar is a sound fullback option is debatable, and that he should be an option at all is a hot topic. Zane Kirchner is available for the European tour and Conrad Jantjes will be back from a long-term injury in 2010.
The Bok management claim Pienaar needs the game time, but with those other fullbacks available in 2010, it seems Pienaar is the emergency alternative not the starting alternative. He’s being groomed as a super sub who can cover 9 to 15.
Springboks – 15 Frans Steyn, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 John Smit (c), 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Jannie du Plessis, 18 Danie Rossouw, 19 Schalk Burger, 20 Ricky Januarie, 21 Adi Jacobs, 22 Ruan Pienaar.
By Jon Cardinelli
156 Comments
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9 Sep 2009, 07:03 am
drop kick dragon – what happend to building for the future with Pienaar.
You need to stick to your guns – what does this do for Pienaar as a player?
9 Sep 2009, 07:06 am
Solid decision.
9 Sep 2009, 07:08 am
#1 kesbok:
What did dropping Frans after solid performances do for him as a player ?
9 Sep 2009, 07:10 am
Its the best decision he has made.Frans has all the attributes of a solid fullback.And building for the future was everybody elses words but not his, he said he wants to keep the interest in the team, not build for the future with Pienaar at the back.
Frans is tall, fast, got a big boot and is strong enough to stay on his feet until he gets support from the back.He could be great if he specializes in that position at Racing.
9 Sep 2009, 07:13 am
Pienaar is rubbish.
Give Juan de Jongh lots of roids and give him two years… what a talent.
9 Sep 2009, 07:16 am
Pienaar is far from rubbish, in fact he had a great game at flyhalf in the opening test against NZ scoring a try, only his goal-kicking let him down. A 10/12 of Pienaar/M.Steyn might be a useful experiment on the EOYT now that JDV is moving on.
9 Sep 2009, 07:16 am
Jake White said the silent hero of the Lions tour were Frans, gets u thinking!
How many times when the Aussies broke the defences there were no cover at the back, Frans is a better kicker he will put us in the corners, we cant get far with box kicks!
9 Sep 2009, 07:22 am
Thank fark everything is back to the way it has worked well from the beginning.
Ndungane will be the AB target area..he has weak defence and is too small and light on attack. Once he has a gap he can accelerate but how often is that going to happen in a test match.
Our midfield is kwaai. No probleemos there. The AB midfield are going to have a busy day trying to stop those two from breaking their line.
9 Sep 2009, 07:26 am
#1 kesbok:
Maybe if something like this affects a player because of his fragile state of mind then such a player isn’t Springbok material.
We need men in our team not boys.
9 Sep 2009, 07:29 am
Fantastic news ….i was so concerned with Habana and Spies i hardly slept ;ast nite, F Steyn a must at 15…….
This is exactly the team i would have chosen as well……minimum disruptions and the big boot ,defence and power of F Steyn at the back…..
Boks and Sharks must decide on a position for Ruan and stick to it from hereon in…..thay mans confidence must be at an all time low….all this shunting around not good.
9 Sep 2009, 07:38 am
Ruan should never have been moved from scrummie. As a sub for du Preez he will excel. He is quite plainly not comfortable with the duties of kicker and decision maker at flyhalf and fullback is also a high stress position..the intensity of the situation seems to affect his confidence. At scrumhalf he is nearer the action and at the side of the scrum he is dangerous as we have seen on several occasions. He breaks quick and has a lethal turn of speed.
He can still develop in to a very good scrummie if he is allowed to specialise there…and he might be called upon to kick for posts as a substitute from time to time and who knows..maybe not being the primary kicker will improve his kicking game.
9 Sep 2009, 07:40 am
#10 grant10: I don’t like to generalise but is this shunting around not ‘a’ typical of South African rugby?
9 Sep 2009, 07:40 am
Good morning all.
Stop dreaming and sceming and play Woods at 9. He is a 9. He was a 9. He will always be a 9.
Like him as a current impact player but NO more.
This is what you get if you shunt a player from pillar to post…….. it is not in his interest…
let him sit in Dikkes se plek oppie bank.
9 Sep 2009, 07:41 am
#10 grant10: morning grant, they’re taking a bit of a risk with the bench, not much wing cover if Habana goes down.
9 Sep 2009, 07:42 am
I like Ruan but his positional play on Saturday was awful. I think the selection of Frans at 15 is a good one – if he wasn’t moving to France (see what I did there?) he would be my first choice for 15 in the long term.
Rest of the team’s all good!
9 Sep 2009, 07:45 am
Good change.
9 Sep 2009, 07:46 am
#12 oodles: Far too typical imo….a sickness to me.
9 Sep 2009, 07:48 am
#13 Staal: Staal….Ruan has always said 9 is his chosen spot….he is , at best , a reluctant 10 and 15 must have made him choke on his energade!
Back to 9 and let him compete for top dog status….at least he will be a happy camper.
9 Sep 2009, 07:50 am
#14 Big Hit: Hi BH….The relief that flooded through me when i saw the team has meant i havent even seen the bench….LOL….
Will check it out…..
Remember we took 27 players on a 3 game tour….Kiwis 28 on a 2 game tour??
Silly!
9 Sep 2009, 07:50 am
sanity returns… and brings Frans along with it…
Go show em Frans!
9 Sep 2009, 07:53 am
I See what you mean BH…..Boks must be confident Habs will make the 80…
I was worried about a knee jerk reaction….and the threat of dropping Brussow, moving Smit to 2, etc,etc….this is great news, continuity the key now….no panic…..
The tough calle can be made post tri nations….
Time to get behind Smit and the boys….100%
9 Sep 2009, 07:57 am
#21 grant10: well it’s the exact same team that did the double over NZ in SA (apart from JPP) so a third win should be possible.
9 Sep 2009, 07:59 am
Pienaar is not that hot! The bok management, JW and Eddie Jones talked him up like is the next messaih of rugby, but in facy he is a lazy, injury prone, unconfident player that shows little interest in what honor he has to play for the boks.
F Steyn has been moved left right and centre and has played just as many games as Pienaar, but it seems Steyn at least knows the honor he has to play with such a great bok team and plays with zeal and determination, while Pienaar looks like he is thinking about something else while he should be scoring tries and wow us with his supposed sttacking skill.
9 Sep 2009, 08:00 am
#22 Big Hit: yes….we need to revert to what we have done best….may not be pretty….but this aint no beauty contest!!
Outta here…gotta make some dough!
9 Sep 2009, 08:01 am
#24 grant10: cheers!
9 Sep 2009, 08:05 am
OK sportsfans – i didn’t say pienaar was ****, i didn’t say i agreed with the dropping of Steyn to begin with. It was more of an observation on the thinking behind the selection. Pienaar wasn’t selected (according to PDV) becuase he offered more from a running point of view. It was done becuase they were looking ot the future and the future did not include Frans due to his French commitments. Now that the decision is a **** up they are back tracking on their original baiss upon which they made the decsiion on the first place. I agree its no good for either player however I recnkon it affects Steyn less than Pienaar. That’s not Pienaaer’s fault but if he is a confidence player then it is up to managment to manage the situation.
9 Sep 2009, 08:05 am
#7 iliketowatchmichellewei:
That’s what worried me as well. Not just Pienaar, but where the hell were our loosies (Spies and Brussow)? I don’t know who’s given the responsibility to run defensive cover behind the backs, taditionally it’s the 8th man, but neither were anywhere near the line breaking Aussie player.
9 Sep 2009, 08:09 am
I have very little sympathy for a 22 (I think) year old who is already chasing the money in Europe. Frans could have semented himself in the bok team for the next 8-9 years had he been a little bit more patient.
He as great talent but has had some shockers on the field. If he was more mature he would have acknowledged this and worked on those things instead of taking the first French contract available.
I applaud Div for making the hard decision in favouring the local players.
9 Sep 2009, 08:11 am
#23 Breakdown Boy:
Brokeback Boy, settle down. The guy has been moved from pillar to post in the backline recently.
How do you expect him to excel straight away when one week he’s a backup scrummie, the next hes a flyhalf and then a fullback the following week?
Those 3 positions are so fundamentally different from each other its no surprise hes struggling a little.
He played bloody well at flyhalf, his best position i think, with only his kicking letting him down.
No, Ruan is quality, leave him to settle in one position, even if its off the bench, and he’ll do well again.
9 Sep 2009, 08:12 am
I know a doctor called John Galt.
9 Sep 2009, 08:16 am
#28 Dumb Supporter: Don’t knwo why this post is awaiting moderation:
I have very little sympathy for a 22 (I think) year old who is already chasing the money in Europe. Frans could have semented himself in the bok team for the next 8-9 years had he been a little bit more patient.
He as great talent but has had some shockers on the field. If he was more mature he would have acknowledged this and worked on those things instead of taking the first French contract available.
I applaud Div for making the difficult decision in favouring the local players.
9 Sep 2009, 08:28 am
The problem of maintaining experience and building for the future so that the team is always strong, has depth and potential leaders to take over is ongoing. The Boks are in danger of lacking freshness over the next two years. There are also selection conundrums. For example – what to do about the TH position? What cover for Habana is there? ( this has already been an issue this week), Do they have a competent backup for FDP? Heinie Adams’ passing is pretty crisp and he’s nippy and alert, but does he have the unpredictability of Vermaak or Kockott? Who are they grooming to back up Matfield and Bakkies? True they will be a hard act to follow, but is anyone even looking for potential successors?
It would seem as if Australia may have begun the process of rebuilding – even if they had to lose several games to make the tough calls; but SA shouldn’t get into that position – like England after the last RWC. Some exciting players were in action in some of the midweek games against the Lions – like the No 7 in the Southern Kings Team who gave the Lions a tough time. Hopefully the CC and S14 will highlight some good new talent. Hopefully the coaches will take note and be bold.
9 Sep 2009, 08:30 am
Only an idiot would not pick Frans Steyn. If he continues to get the opportunity to play fullback, he will become the greatest 15 the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately FS’s mother doesn’t know Twakkie quite well enough.
9 Sep 2009, 08:43 am
strange that they dropped pienaar, was’nt there another position where they could’ve put him in.
9 Sep 2009, 08:44 am
No problem , good call by the coach. Not going to be a easy game but i think we can win this one. Good luck to the boks.
9 Sep 2009, 08:56 am
#31 King Shark: He wasn’t integral to any of the wins we’ve had this year.
We’re speaking as if Frans was an architect of many a point scoring opportunity when in actual fact he wasn’t.
Frans has been good this year but not as great as some may suggest.
9 Sep 2009, 08:57 am
And with this I say AB’s to win with the BP. Pienaar should play 10, all this positional switching is not only good for the player but also for the franchise that pays his salary. How can we revert him back to 9 now? We already have Kockett there who’s brilliant and Charl looks great. Pienaar will return to the Sharks and should play 10 with Hernandez at 12, Adi 13, our usual slow wingers and Oom Stef at the back.
Pienaar should be coming on for Morne or should start as the Bok 10, he shouldnt be played anywhere else barring injuries where he can help out
9 Sep 2009, 09:02 am
#35 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: I agree that he should be starting at 10 this weekend. I just think that Morne will be targeted and may not be up to it when we need to run more.
9 Sep 2009, 09:03 am
#35 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: very nb that sharks and Boks let him specialise….10 or 9 but no more shunting!!
9 Sep 2009, 09:11 am
I think the biggest problem for Ruaan was that Morne kicked so well when he came on to the field. Would be interesting to see what a Pienaar at 10 and Morne at 12 combo would do. With Jean leaving it could be a nice option for the EOYT.
That said, accurate kicking is not something you are born with. Ruaan needs to stop feeling sorry for himself and grow some balls. Go put in extra hours with his kicking and prove that he can become a 80% plus kicker. then he will happily be picked at 10 for the Boks.
Give the coach credit for picking frans and not sticking with Ruaan. Both have done nothing special in the 15 jersey this year. Instead the MO is to call him arrogant and blame the loss partly on the fact that Frans was not playing. JC, you know even less than rugby than I initially thought.
9 Sep 2009, 09:14 am
i don’t get the excitement with Franz, I have only seen him kick or dropkick, anything else has been average.
Wish you guys would look for the try 1st, droppie last!
9 Sep 2009, 09:19 am
Dont worry boys, the Boks will win come Sat.The match and trophy!
Why?
They have the mental fitness to do it.
Our front row were much better than the AB’s
, remember Steyn’s try at Dbn, form an AB throw in!. Beast annialated Franks. Woodcock couldnot to a thing to the Appy TH.
And for Hore, he must have an affair with Victor and Bakkies.
AB locks are useless.
Ratel will be there before RM.
Backline , we will take them.
GO BOKKE!!!!!
9 Sep 2009, 09:21 am
#36 Ezee-23:
Morne is good but in the reality he only beats Ruan with goalkicking, something that Ruan can improve on but the boy needs to be starting. If the Boks dont get penalties in the oppo half and the AB’s keep their discipline Morne will stuggle to make much impact. I would go with Morne this weekend just to avoid disruptions but going forward RP should be starting.
#37 grant10:
We’re trying Grant but Bok management is making life rather difficult for us
9 Sep 2009, 09:25 am
There are 2 things that I can’t fathom… 1. Why do the Springbok management insist on pulling a player like Bakkies Botha off after 50 or 60 minutes? Without doubt it has had a noticeable impact on the teams performance every time! 2. Why waste a talent like Ryan Kankowski by taking him on tour to be nothing other than practice fodder? Surely he’s be better off playing in the Curry Cup. In NZ and Aus a talent like his would be nurtured.
9 Sep 2009, 09:26 am
#38 moedeloos:
10 and 12 would be targeted, not the two soundest defenders in arguably the two busiest channels
#39 kiwirugbyfan:
The boy is talented with the boot (sheer power is what I am talking about), big and strong so he is unlikely to be exposed at any level but thats about it (which for us Sharks fan has been enough I must say)
9 Sep 2009, 09:30 am
#42 Grant in NZ:
Agreed about Kankowski, the boy can be magic and isnt as lightweight as many make out. He should start just get a start ahead of Spies in a pressure game and then we can judge if he’s only good when things get loose. Other players carrying tackle bags that are needed by their province for the CC are Guthro Steenkamp and Wynand Olivier
Bakkies usually comes of for Danie which to my mind is a like for like switch so dont think thats where the problems start
9 Sep 2009, 09:37 am
#41 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Agreed.
9 Sep 2009, 09:42 am
John Smit IS World Class-it’s that simple
Hi from sunny Brisbane to all our new friends at rugbyiq.com, it is great to see how many more rugby enthusiast are logging on to our website and reading our blogs.
For all new visitors, just some brief background. We started this website for the use of aspiring coaches and developing players, but also for all other people who love the game of rugby and who really relish debating, discussing and hopefully learning from each other. Whilst so many of us share a powerful passion for the game, we at rugbyiq.com have always wanted to target the website and blogs toward the rugby ‘intellectuals” who wish to share their views, a think tank if you wish,so welcome all who share our passion, if you feel the site and the blogs are interesting to you, please feel free to share them with others, thanks.
Last week i mentioned that i would like to do an in depth of Australia, ironically i was going to share some views that would back up why i thought Australia were a very good team, despite two early losses to S.A. in the Tri-Nations, and then they went to prove that to us by an emphatic and clinical victory over the Boks on the weekend here in Brisbane.
But i have rather decided to do that at a later stage as a wrap up of where i believe Australia and New Zealand are at the moment and i will share some really interesting game statistics that i am sure many of you were not aware of.
Instead today i would like to briefly chat about a topic i have been emailed on regularly and asked to discuss, and that is John Smit at tighthead.
Firstly let me say that I have read many supposedly knowledgeable journalists, and frighteningly, have also read some views from an ex international coach, who is acclaimed as a scrum guru here in Australia, and i could NOT disagree enough with their in-factual, personal and biased views about John, his ability at tighthead and how the Springbok scrum is an Achilles heel.
Interestingly, John played prop at school and at his early days in provincial rugby, he also was used very successfully at his French club Clermont in the very tough scrum environment of the French Top 14, so tighthead is certainly not something he decided to “have a bash at” in order for himself to still be considered to play for South Africa, in fact he was asked to play there by the coaching staff because we had lost C.J.van der Linde and B.J. Botha to the North, and John was seen, due to his fantastic form at Clermont, as a more than able to fill those shoes. To also start to mention his other qualities as a rugby player and a leader would require another whole blog topic, so we will just concentrate on his ability at scrum time.
Now a few weeks ago i wrote about “Rugby Romantics” when we were discussing the kicking game, and in our job as coaches, it is vitally important that we are process driven and do not get caught up in the emotions of an incident that occurs in a game where we lose sight of the ultimate objective of what we are attempting to achieve.Now I say this because the ultimate objective of the scrum, in the modern game, is to provide quality ball for the team to be able to use effectively to launch a play. Yes I also do believe the scrum is an area where one team can gain a physical physiological edge on your opponents but ultimately and bluntly once the ball is either in the 8’s hands or the 9 has passed it effectively, the scrum is over. So the ultimate objective for a team and its coaches is to asses how effectively, if at all, a team can get to play off effective scrum ball, and in turn that would indirectly lead us to judge the effect of the scrum. To that end i would like to share some scrum statistics i had leading into the last Test between the Wallabies and Boks.
Australia had had 47 scrums in the 3 games they had played, in those 47 scrums they had 14 re sets, which is 30%. Remarkably they only got to launch an effective play off 17 of there scrums which is 36%. In South Africa’s case we had had 54 scrums in the first 3 games. The Boks had 5 re-sets which was 9% and incredibly, the Boks were able to launch effective plays off 39 of those scrums which constitutes a very acceptable 72%. These are facts, hard undebatable facts, these are not my emotive views, or a personal attack or defence toward or in favour of anyone, as i have witnessed recently towards South Africa’s scrums and in particular John Smit.
As a coach we need to present facts to players and a team in order for them to improve, or if an aspect of ones game is not up to standard, then,I suppose like any good doctor, we need to fix the cause and not the symptom.
Now i am also not totally blinkered and naive, and please, i am not needing to defend John or the Boks, i believe their are definitely areas of the Boks game where they can certainly improve, and scrums is certainly one, but i don’t feel that the specific scale of the criticism toward the scrum is based on facts and evidence,which as coaches, is all we can and should be focused on. I assume that a lot of the criticism has possibly come from what we all saw in the test in Brisbane, and in the test in Perth when the talented Ben Robinson caught John on the hit in 3 scrums, and was able to get underneath him, and in those scrums, yes, Australia had the upper hand. It looked dramatic, as John was lifted into the air and his head popped out of the scrum, and in fact in the game on the weekend he was actually penalised. Yes, this did not look good, but this is what the short talented Robinson’s strategy was, to attempt to walk around John, get underneath him and then scrum up on him and hence catching him on the angle, fair play to him, but in the other 27 scrums we had in the 2 tests, that was not necessarily the case and that ploy certainly did not work.
John is a big man, he weighs 122 kg is 1,85cm and is a powerful specimen, but as the ex springbok tighthead Cobus Visagie wrote in a recent interview he did when asked about John, he said that he thought John was doing very well but possibly needed to remember that on every single scrum he needed to get low in the knees, hence getting his body position lower and to then take the engagement from that position, so he cannot get caught when he comes up against shorter looseheads. A quality constructive criticism that we will both take on board and certainly look to focus and improve
In the world of rugby it seems that the experts also do have selected short term memory loss, however I choose not to forget how the scrums went for South Africa in the recent British and Irish Lions series, possibly i can remind some of the experts. In the first test in Durban the Boks did nothing short of demolishing the Lions, and as i have already explained, benefited by receiving 3 penalties and a turnover, again, that is the direct result of those 4 scrums. That is all we can concern ourselves with. In fact in that very same test the Boks also had a “huge” scrum against the Lions, but the Lions got the ball away effectively and really Ugo Monye should have scored if it not were fro the brilliance of Jean de Villiers dislodging the ball, so again I state that particular scrum meant nothing because of what resulted from it.
Now in the current Tri-Nations and particularly against Australia, I can well remember the left hand scrum in Perth where John, and i might add the rest of his teamates (b.t.w their are also 7 other men in a scrum who have an equally important role!!) were able to help him get a fantastic right shoulder that led to Bryan Habana’s match winning try under the poles. I am also reminded of the great solid midfield scrum in the same test just earlier that led to Jaques Fourie’s untouched try under the poles, to start the rot. Also, it springs to mind how good the Boks defensive scrum was against the Aussies this last weekend that led to Fourie du Preez turning the ball over out of Will Genia’s hands, and I could go on reminding you of all the many other scrums, that led to a more than solid base where our kickers were able to clear us out of our 22 or were able to launch our aerial assault that has returned such great dividends for the Boks.
Finally friends, the scrum is an incredibly intricate machine, of incredibly powerful forces working in very many ways and will every now and then breakdown. In the Boks case, and in particular John’s, yes, they can most definitely improve, as can our defence and other aspects of our game. The Boks can also become a lot more consistent at scrum time, particularly on their own ball,most definitely, but i hope i have been able to go a short way to show that it is not costing the Boks games and in fact has on many occasions been a very good platform for South Africa to launch effective plays from, considering we have been able to score 6 tries this season to date from the launch off scrums. It still remains an aspect of the team that can definitely improve, as i have said, but South Africa’s great captain, John Smit is doing a superb job, and is most definitely getting better every game, just look at the facts.
Until we chat again all the best
GG
9 Sep 2009, 09:48 am
#44 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Agreed about Wynand and Guthro. Re Bakkies, in my opinion the difference has been noticeable. Any semblance of resistance in the scrum on Saturday disappeared when Danie came on.
9 Sep 2009, 10:01 am
#47 Grant in NZ:
Your scrum against our scrum will always stuggle no matter who is packing down behind Smittie imo, Benn Robinson is top quality. They will go better against the AB’s this weekend and they will dominate the lineout winning their and NZ ball.
But you will be ran off your feet, if Henry can get the players to approach this game like they did the one in Durban the Boks wont last the full 80, by 60 the four try bonus should be up I tell you. Pray it rains or something
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