PdV: ‘I am the boss’
7 Dec 2009
SA Rugby magazine’s hard-hitting interview with the Springbok coach.
Your critics say that your technical knowledge of the game is poor, and that all the technical stuff surrounding the Boks’ game plan comes from your assistant coaches and the senior players. What’s your response to that?
I went to Wales to do my level-two coaching course, and paid my own way. The way it works is that you do the course and then go coach for another two years before you return to do the level-three course. I had just come back to South Africa when the Welsh Rugby Union called me and said they were so impressed by my technical knowledge of the game that they wanted me to do the next course straight away. I chose to do those courses in Wales, because I’ve always admired the great players they had in the ’70s, like Gareth Edwards and JPR Williams. I knew I would be working with equally talented players back in South Africa.
So you do make technical contributions in the Bok set-up?
Of course. When I said the All Blacks were scrumming illegally in last year’s Tri-Nations, I had video footage to back it up. No one else in the Bok squad had spotted it. The same thing happened when I questioned the Wallabies’ scrumming methods this year. I was the only person who saw what they were doing. I also make technical observations about other areas of the game, like lineouts and attack.
Do the senior Boks run the show as some have suggested?
Let me make one thing clear – I am the boss, I am the CEO of South African rugby.
In John Smit’s autobiography he explains how the coaches and the senior players meet the day after a Test to plot the way forward for the week ahead. Why did you decide to have such a democratic process?
A good CEO doesn’t make every decision on his own, he consults with other senior people in the company and gets their input. Why would I not want to listen to my assistant coaches and senior players like John and Victor [Matfield]? They all have something to offer. But the final decision on how we play rests with me.
There’s a rumour going around that Dick Muir made those controversial substitutions against the Lions in the first Test in Durban. True or false?
Let me explain. My voice isn’t suited to the radio we use [to communicate with the staff on the sideline] as I talk too quickly and my voice goes high and then low. Why would I want to talk when I can make use of Dick’s strong voice?
But does the message to make the substitutions come from you?
Yes.
So why did you make all those changes when the Boks were 19 points ahead and in complete control?
You know, if I could have done it over again, I would have made them earlier, because I could see the guys were getting tired and went into a defensive mode. By the time I brought the fresh legs on we couldn’t get out of that defensive mode.
Smit believes the Boks would have won by 25 points if those changes had not been made.
No, I don’t agree with him.
Do you regret the way you handled the Schalk Burger ‘eye-gouging’ episode after the second Lions Test in Pretoria?
No, I don’t.
Why didn’t you just tell the British and Irish journalists at the post-match press conference that you couldn’t comment until you had watched the video? In the end, Smit had to step in and say that.
Why should I have had to do that? The South African journalists in the room should have asked me what it was like to have beaten the Lions in a series. But you sat back and let them ask me those questions [about Burger]. You wanted to see me fail.
But you could have stopped their line of questioning yourself. Why rely on the local media?
No, you should have stopped them. You were all intimidated by them. I saw the look in your faces.
So you have no regrets at all about that press conference and the following one on the Monday?
I regret confusing the words ‘condone’ and ‘condemn’. If I had spoken to [the foreign media] in Afrikaans, I would have won that battle easily.
Then why didn’t you?
No, why man? I just got one word wrong.
Were you given a dressing down at that meeting with SA Rugby after the Lions series?
No, it was just a meeting to discuss the progress of the team. We had a similar meeting at the end of last year.
But you seemed to choose your words far more carefully at press conferences after that meeting. You were a changed man during the Tri-Nations.
I didn’t change. You [the media] changed because we were winning. I will never change. That’s why I say ‘I am who I am and I don’t give a damn’.
Why do you think the South African rugby media want you to fail?
Because your man didn’t get the job.
Who? Heyneke Meyer?
You said it, not me.
Do you think some of the media are racist?
You said it, not me.
Do they irritate you during press conferences?
I know that most of them have played rugby before, but I can tell by their questions that they haven’t played at a very high level. If it hadn’t been for apartheid, I would have played for the Boks.
Let’s go back to the beginning of your stint as Bok coach on the day you got the job. How did you feel when [Saru president] Regan Hoskins said your appointment was ‘not for purely rugby reasons’?
I don’t let the bad things in life affect me.
But how did you feel when you heard those words?
I felt nothing. Regan is entitled to his opinion and it didn’t bother me at all. I know I’m a good coach and that I deserve to be where I am today.
The Boks finished last in the 2008 Tri-Nations after starting the tournament as favourites. Why did you choose to abandon a structured approach for a more expansive one?
What laws were we playing under? We had to adapt our game because of the ELVs. I never said that I didn’t like structure, I said we would play total rugby. When I got the job as coach I said I wanted to take the Boks to the next level.
So you don’t regret adopting the game plan used last year?
No.
Then why the return to a more structured game plan in this year’s Tri-Nations if total rugby was the way to go?
The message came from me that we should kick more this year. Then because we had kicked so much [in the three home Tri-Nations Tests], we were able to surprise the Wallabies in Perth with a running game that resulted in four tries.
What was your lowest point of that somewhat difficult 2008 season?
The sex-tape story, which wasn’t true. I had to watch my 82-year-old mother cry.
Before you were appointed as Bok coach, there was talk that you’d pick 10 black players in the starting line-up if you got the job, yet you finished the Tri-Nations with only two black wings and a black Zimbabwean prop who wasn’t eligible when Jake White was coach. Have you failed in terms of transformation?
If a racist white guy voted for the National Party, but then changed his views after 1994, that is transformation. The Springbok team has been transformed because the colour of a player’s skin doesn’t matter anymore. I’m not going to pick black players to make up the numbers, because I will do them more harm than good.
But there were still only three players in the Bok starting XV. Isn’t that a concern?
Look, I think Adi Jacobs is the No 1 centre in the country, but he got injured and by the time he was fit Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie were doing well together so I couldn’t drop either of them. Ricky Januarie is an excellent scrumhalf, but I can’t drop Fourie du Preez. And Conrad Jantjes broke his leg earlier this season. We could have had six players of colour in the starting XV in different circumstances.
But you only had three which is why you were slammed by that transformation committee.
What have they done for the good of this country? What contribution have they made?
You’ve said that the Super 14 coaches are to blame for the lack of black players coming through. Do you stand by that?
Yes, they don’t think black players can make it at that level.
Would the situation be different if three of our five Super 14 coaches were black?
You said it, not me.
Do black players and coaches have to work twice as hard to get the same recognition and plaudits as their white counterparts?
Of course! I’ve had to work 10 times harder than any other white coach to get to where I am today. Why wasn’t I ever offered a coaching job at Super Rugby level?
Is there something wrong with the system when someone like Frans Ludeke, who failed dismally with the Cats/Lions, gets the Bulls job?
You said it, not me.
You have a high profile as Bok coach and earn a big salary. Has that changed you as a person?
I haven’t changed. I still live in the same house in the same area [in Paarl]. It will be hard for me to leave because I want the people in my area to be proud of the fact that they are living near the Bok coach. I still drive the same car that I had before I got the Bok job. It just needs to get me from A to B.
Do people you know expect more from you? Do they ever come and ask you for money to help them buy a car or pay off a loan?
No, do I look like a charity?
By Simon Borchardt
– This article first appeared in the November issue of SA Rugby magazine
494 Comments
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7 Dec 2009, 14:18 pm
@rangerman: You are missing the point. Someone like Kallis, for example, can play T20 cricket as well as ODIs and Tests. Someone like Habana, for example, can’t play Sevens even though he would be sensational in it.
7 Dec 2009, 14:19 pm
@Simon: #189
And kudos to him for going through with it…
now THAT says something about the man…
.
.
.
Simon… completely different topic but… where the heck have the reference numbers gone when replying to comments…??? very frustrating without them…
7 Dec 2009, 14:19 pm
@Simon: @Simon: You mean other media are not racists? Only you carry that distinction.
So the three white addidas stripes made you feel better. Not totally black then.
7 Dec 2009, 14:19 pm
@Nanashi:
I must be an exception. This interview is NOT a representation of what I’m thinking.
@Valkyrie:
7 Dec 2009, 14:20 pm
@ufo: What is your point? I didn’t ask De Villiers about his *** life in this interview.
7 Dec 2009, 14:21 pm
@Dawn: it’s our beloved friend!he was on the blog last week and actually reported back to his mates on rt that hater/lilith was back on keo.had a few choice words to say about hater/lilith.
7 Dec 2009, 14:23 pm
@ufo: I’ll drop our webmaster an e-mail…
7 Dec 2009, 14:24 pm
@rangerman:
I tend to agree with a “third way” approach – tempering a market liberalist, capitalist approach with aspects of state socialism.
Look up some of Anthony Giddens’s work.
And if my support for a system that rejects top-down socialism but also rejects traditional neo-liberalism makes me a pinko lefty – so be it.
7 Dec 2009, 14:25 pm
@Simon: #203
Point is Simon, you asked PdV the questions ‘no other’ media had asked… but people ‘wanted to know’… why not afford Jake the same courtesy…???
7 Dec 2009, 14:25 pm
@Simon: #203
Thanks…
7 Dec 2009, 14:27 pm
@Simon:
So that is why Loots Bosman can’t play 50 over cricket.
7 Dec 2009, 14:29 pm
hey simon…
good on you for fronting up here… seriously…
dawnie…
really gotta fly now… you’re on your own (for now…)
7 Dec 2009, 14:29 pm
@ufo: I asked De Villiers rugby-related questions that people wanted to know.
7 Dec 2009, 14:29 pm
Cant manage a Bok team by committee PDV….cut the player power…thats the first step my man…
7 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
@ufo: Uh, no. Still can’t get over the drivel that is being posted.
7 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
@Simon: #189
What was the atmosphere like during the interview? Did you get the feeling that PdV was getting agitated by your line of questioning or was he open and friendly throughout the interview?
7 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
Valkyrie …. life’s a ***** chaka zulu
7 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
@Dawn: Who says he can’t? In my opinion, Bosman should be in the ODI side.
7 Dec 2009, 14:32 pm
@Simon: who are these people that you are referring to?
7 Dec 2009, 14:32 pm
sorry simon one last one…
People really wanted to know if people were asking PdV for money….??? And that’s rugby related…???
C’mon Simon…!!
7 Dec 2009, 14:33 pm
@Valkyrie: Good to know I can still rub them raw.
7 Dec 2009, 14:33 pm
@Simon:
May I ask you a question?
Keo.co.za has a byline, “An independent look at South African rugby.”
How independent is that look still, given HSM’s affiliation with Jake White’s Winning Ways?
7 Dec 2009, 14:34 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Re your “third way” approach … oil and water don’t mix.
Weeny capitalism and castrated socialism don’t get on.
7 Dec 2009, 14:34 pm
@Simon: i’ve got no interest in wanting to know whether his coloured neighbours are asking him for money to pay off car or house loans!
7 Dec 2009, 14:37 pm
@ufo: It was rugby related because I wanted to know if being Bok coach had changed him as a person, or changed the way people in his community (who knew him well before he got the job) interacted with him.
7 Dec 2009, 14:37 pm
@Simon: #211
Next time you have a chance to interview PdV again you should maybe ask the bloggers to submit some questions beforehand. Then you can really claim that you asked “De Villiers rugby-related questions that people wanted to know.”
I would for example like to know what his plans are at No.6 with both HB and Schalk there? What is his plans with JS: 2 or 3? Succession plans regarding the lock position?
I hope it is rugby related enough for you to consider next time you sit down opposite PdV.
7 Dec 2009, 14:38 pm
@WP Till I Die: We are still 100% independent.
7 Dec 2009, 14:38 pm
@Simon: Did it even cross your mind to say:
“Congratulations Peter on an amazing year and winning SA rugby coach of the year, with your successes with the trinations,and B and I Lions!”
Are you so bitter that you could not even say that.
Did you even shake his hand in the interview or were you disgusted by his skin?
7 Dec 2009, 14:39 pm
For the record I do not see much wrong with the interview.
When I first read it in the magazine a couple of weeks ago I actually had a big smile on my face.
Thought PDV handled this one nicely.
7 Dec 2009, 14:39 pm
@rossoneri: he can’t stand your guts.no surrender!no retreat! aluta continua!
7 Dec 2009, 14:40 pm
PDV….said it for the last year…..go with your gut instinct….all these voices around you gonna dissapear like mist on the Clifton Beach whan the going gets tough…..
Make the hard calls…..you have to…start on jersey no 1 ….and end on 22….be ruthless….too many accomodation selections…..
Tell G Gold to start developing respect for the scrums….total rugby a non starter if scrum in turbo reverse…..tell Smit to stop contradicting you….pi sses me off
7 Dec 2009, 14:40 pm
@Simon: no simon, you are missing the point mate.
if bryan chose to be a sevens SPECIALIST, he would walk into the team tomorrow. but he has not chosen to SPECIALISE and therefore he is playing s14 and cc and for the 15 man boks.
what exactly are you asking anyway? for bryan to add 7′s to his sporting calender?
ja, and why dont you just add another 1000 WELL WRITTEN, WELL RESEARCHED articles to your output every year?
oh ja, quality would suffer. apparently. you might even suffer from fatigue.
7 Dec 2009, 14:41 pm
@Simon: You mean black people! Say it! So you asking whether black people loaf on Pdv? Is that it!
7 Dec 2009, 14:41 pm
@nama1: AMEN !!!!!
7 Dec 2009, 14:42 pm
@rangerman:
Hehehe…
7 Dec 2009, 14:42 pm
@Xhosaskid:
Pietman!
You white supremacist.
7 Dec 2009, 14:44 pm
@Valkyrie:
I am gonna ask PdeV to help me pay off my bond!!!!!!!!!!!!
7 Dec 2009, 14:44 pm
@Simon: simon are you stupid? what part of paul treu’s answer (below) says habana won’t play for the Sevens Springboks? This article is carried in this month’s SARugby mag, yet you’re here spewing nonsense!
Gareth Duncan: Considering the importance of Olympic glory in 2016, would you select the strongest possible team or will you show your loyalty to the sevens specialists?
A sevens coach won’t be able to exclude the best players in the country – he would be stupid if he did. There’s no doubt South Africa will need our best possible team at the Olympics if we want to win a gold medal. Springboks such as Heinrich Brüssow and Ryan Kankowski have been involved in sevens before and they know how to win tournaments. We are also starting to identify players from the High Performance Programme – at the U16, U18 and U20 levels. These players will be future Springboks and the programme will help develop their game with the necessary skills to excel in sevens rugby.
you’re even on record lamenting the fact that the Sevens’ Springboks get paid the equivalent of a S14 contract, what is your problem bra?
7 Dec 2009, 14:44 pm
@Valkyrie: Glad to hear. No mercy. And the ******* dug a hole so deep for himself that he knows he will look like the ultimate D00S, if he returns after his racist tirade exit.
@Simon: Talking Kak. But I actually cannot blame you. It’s hard to speak anything else when you up JW arse.
7 Dec 2009, 14:45 pm
@rossoneri: You clearly have no idea how interviews are conducted. There is always a handshake – and informal chatter – before an interview takes place.
7 Dec 2009, 14:45 pm
I cannot understand why it is so important to Simon that PdV must fail.
How will we bring an end to this violence and hatred?
7 Dec 2009, 14:46 pm
@WP Till I Die:
And finally …
I really though you had a spine, but you take instruction from that insane chemically-dependent Sheriff about not talking to me.
Get some backbone!
Good grief.
7 Dec 2009, 14:48 pm
@Simon: So you washed your hands immediately after. Is that it? Right at the end when you insultingly asked that racist question about black people loafing.
7 Dec 2009, 14:48 pm
@Tacitus:
“So in one interview Snor has insulted the following people:
Everyone who voted for the National party before…”
i have no problem with this
7 Dec 2009, 14:48 pm
@WP Till I Die: i reject wholesale capitalism outright.
but really, i am a ranger, not an economist so i listen, i learn.
simon, i appreciate the discussion anyway man. i may disagree with you and i do feel that the continued refusal of keo and the journos here to congratulate PdV on the successes he has had, is a little churlish.
but again, i appreciate the input. there was a time when you guys were around more often.
7 Dec 2009, 14:48 pm
@rossoneri: When someone – black or white – wins the lottery, they are often hounded by ‘friends’ who come out of the woodwork, are they not?
7 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
@PissAnt:
sheesh, i can be an irrit sometimes lmao!
7 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
@Simon:
Ons kleurling help mekaar.
Please gimme PdeV’s contact details.
I wanna give him my bank account number.
7 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
@Dawn:
What are you talking about?
Nobody told me not to talk to you?
Sorry, I’ve been very busy of late and hopping in and out of keo, so don’t have time to hang around to read all the comments?
7 Dec 2009, 14:50 pm
Should’ve asked him wether he thought Nick Mallett did a better job coaching his Boks on this EOYT
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