‘I have no regrets’
10 Dec 2009
Regan Hoskins on his Saru presidency, the Southern Kings and transformation.
What’s been your greatest achievement as Saru president?
That’s not for me to say. The media and the public can decide.
And your greatest disappointment?
I honestly don’t have any disappointments. I’ve enjoyed my time in South African rugby.
What’s been your greatest challenge?
I think the greatest challenge for the leadership of South African rugby is to keep controversy to a minimum.
Do you have any regrets?
No, none at all. I’ve loved every minute of it. It’s been magic.
What about the Luke Watson selection saga in 2007?
I have no regrets. It isn’t easy working in South African rugby as we operate in a political and economic environment and rugby has a big social context in this country. I am human and I’ve made mistakes, but tough times build character.
Why did SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd and Saru decide to become one organisation?
The new Income Tax Act doesn’t allow sports organisations to have two arms anymore and we had until the end of the year to comply. However, we are happy to bring our amateur and professional entities together because it will allow us to streamline our activities, improve our operations and avoid duplication.
Will there be any job losses because of the merger?
Not that I know of, although I can’t predict how employees will react to it.
As Sanzar chairman, you have been very involved in the Southern Kings’ push for Super Rugby inclusion. Why did Saru spend R10 million to scrap the Spears, only to support them again as the Kings?
I don’t know where you got that figure from. Saru gave the Spears R6 million so they could operate as a franchise.
But Saru and the Spears battled in court. How much did that cost your organisation?
It was quite exorbitant … a few million …
So R10 million is a pretty accurate figure?
Perhaps, but the way you initially phrased it suggested the money wasn’t accounted for, which it was.
Were the Spears scrapped because Saru lost the bid to host the 2011 World Cup and no longer needed government’s support?
I wasn’t the Saru president at the time [Brian van Rooyen was] so I can’t answer that.
Did Saru under your leadership have to back the Kings in order to get government’s support for the 2015 and 2019 World Cup bids?
No, I don’t know where you heard that.
Did government ever say that it would only support the World Cup bid if Saru pushed for the Kings’ inclusion?
Not that I’m aware of, no.
Do you feel betrayed by the IRB, seeing as it encouraged Saru to bid again for the World Cup?
Perhaps there was that feeling at first but we have made peace with the outcome. We wish England and Japan the best.
Did the IRB suggest to you or anyone at Saru that South Africa would probably get the 2023 World Cup, having missed out twice in a row?
No, no one’s said anything like that.
How can South Africa demand a sixth Super Rugby team when the Lions and Cheetahs have performed so poorly in recent seasons?
Our statistics dispute that assertion.
But the Lions came 12th this season and the Cheetahs last.
You have to take the travel schedule into account when you look at our teams’ performances. This year the Cheetahs had arguably the toughest schedule in the history of the competition. Australia’s teams also don’t all do well – the Reds came second last this year.
Why not make room for the Kings from 2011 by having the Cheetahs and Lions play as the Cats again?
I’m sure that is one of the options being discussed by various people. But we must remember that they tried playing as the Cats before and it didn’t work.
EPRFU president Cheeky Watson says Saru should have fought harder to secure the Kings’ inclusion in an expanded Super Rugby tournament.
I’m not sure what context he said that in … he may have been talking about their inclusion from 2011, which was always going to be difficult because they would have to be in the Australian conference. The conferences could be expanded from 2012 or 2013 which would allow the Kings to join the South African conference.
But did Watson have a point?
Cheeky shouldn’t have spoken to the media about it, he should have raised his concerns with the President’s Council, of which he is one of the members.
What’s your relationship with him like?
We have a good relationship.
Would you like to see the Kings playing in the Currie Cup Premier Division?
My personal views on the subject don’t matter, as the President’s Council will make a decision. I just want to see the Kings up and running as a team.
How many teams do you think should be in the Currie Cup Premier Division?
This is a very sensitive subject, and again, my personal views don’t matter as the President’s Council will decide.
Let’s move on to transformation issues. Is there an unofficial quota for the Boks?
No.
Have you ever put pressure on Peter de Villiers to pick more players of colour?
No.
Does it concern you that Beast Mtawarira is the only ethnic black player in the Springbok starting XV and he is Zimbabwean-born?
No. We must stop being paranoid about numbers. Look how many ethnic black South Africans have Springbok jerseys and support the team.
Why did you feel the need to say that the Bok end-of-year tour squad had been selected on merit? It gave the impression that it wasn’t.
I don’t remember saying that … was it at the press conference after the squad announcement? Oh yes, what I said was that I didn’t know that there were 15 players of colour in the squad and I thanked the journalist for pointing it out to me.
Doesn’t your job require you to be aware of that figure?
My job is to make sure that transformation is happening at lower levels of the game, not to count numbers.
Would you have noticed if there were only four or five players of colour in that squad?
I’m not going to speculate on something that didn’t happen. I knew that the Bok squad would have several players of colour because they have been playing brilliant rugby.
By Simon Borchardt
– This article first appeared in the December issue of SA Rugby magazine. The January-February issue goes on sale next week.
42 Comments
10 Dec 2009, 07:41 am
good oke this
10 Dec 2009, 08:10 am
@grant10: Agreed, although I worry about the quality of their statisticians if they do not agree that the Cheetahs and Lions have sucked in the Super 12/14 recently!
10 Dec 2009, 08:42 am
So Regan basically said f-all in this interview…
10 Dec 2009, 08:43 am
Did Saru under your leadership have to back the Kings in order to get government’s support for the 2015 and 2019 World Cup bids?
No, I don’t know where you heard that.
From me, on this site Regan.
10 Dec 2009, 08:44 am
@grant10:
I have asked this before.
What legacy will Regan leave behind in SA rugby?
What progress did SA rugby make from an administration point of view and in the structures of the game and how it is played and administered since he took over?
10 Dec 2009, 08:54 am
Simon is an embarrassment to journalists the world over!!!
10 Dec 2009, 09:19 am
@wpw:
Actually Simon is right on with his questions.
For Four years there has been a shocking sandbagging of the Eastern Cape region at enormous cost to rugby throughout South Africa.
So while you read this here right now, “Rome is fiddling” in George today right now!
Had SA Rugby adhered to their Presidents Council resolutions of June 2005 and abided by their constitution, the Eastern Cape would have cost R10 million in one shot in 2006, as agreed, and not the R220 million financial devastation that has wreaked havoc on rugby in South Africa.
The staggering R220 million and all 14 unions’ money, spent, lost and forfeited on a dubious and sinister campaign, deliberately flies in the face of a legal and constitutionally binding agreement, on all 14 unions, that first excluded the Southern Spears and has now marginalised the Southern Kings.
The cost is so mind boggling and shocking, that it is almost incomprehensible that the actions of a few have been tolerated for so long, without recourse. The past 4 years have been a reckless and negligent campaign in direct violation of the SA Rugby constitution. They have gone and disadvantaged rugby by more than R220 million in a crazed 48-month spending spree that defies logic.
Had this R220 million rather been invested in the game in South Africa, we would not only have won the Rugby World Cup bid as well as the 15th Super Rugby franchise, based on merit, but also established SA Rugby as true leaders of Sanzar and be lauded as true sports ambassadors of the game internationally.
Look at this obscene spending over the past 4 years and come to the jaw-dropping realisation that this is so out of whack with reality it has to end. And soon. And if the Presidents Council today do not catch a wake up call, and address this and fast, our game will be in even further peril.
Costs to exclude the Southeastern Cape region and SA Rugby from 2005-2009:
- Cost of funding the Spears from August 2005 to March 2006 — R6.5 million (of the R10 million discussed for 2006 only).
- Cost of acquiring 50% shares in the 3 Spears shareholders — R13.5 million.
- Legal costs against the Spears — R4.3 million.
- Lost sponsorship of R15 million per annum to the EC franchise for 5 years 2006-2010 — R75 million.
- Lost gate receipts of 5 international games per annum in the Eastern Cape at R3 million each for 5 years — R75 million.
- Liquidation costs — R5.7 million.
- Loss of the promised SA Rugby Academy in Alicedale — R30 million.
- Coega rugby summit — R500 000
- SA Rugby’s deployment of Godfrey Afrika to establish the EC franchise and associated costs — R3 million.
- Southern Kings 16 June 2009 launch and game against the British Lions — R4.5 million.
- SA Rugby Super 15 bid costs — R2 million.
Subtotal: R220 million
OUCH!
10 Dec 2009, 10:20 am
TonyM, why is SARU so hellbent on denying EP rugby development?
10 Dec 2009, 11:14 am
He should have stopped after the first question: What is your greatest achievement as SARU president?
Real answer: Nothing!!
10 Dec 2009, 11:44 am
@TonyM:
5 international games per annum?
10 Dec 2009, 12:14 pm
This guy didnt say anything about anything, just as he has done nothing in his tenure.
10 Dec 2009, 12:24 pm
@gunther: uh, ja tony, newlands, kp, loftus, bloem and ellis will do without then for the next five years.
and all the new stadia too.
methinks not.
10 Dec 2009, 12:29 pm
@TonyM: Your “Sub Total” of 220 million is dodgy to say the least.
“Lost sponsorship of R15 million per annum to the EC franchise for 5 years 2006-2010 — R75 million.” – joke
You have a whole fruit basket of imputed “costs” and lost “benefits”.
Very misleading…
10 Dec 2009, 12:35 pm
Can someone tell why we wud want to repeat the cats mistake? A team that has home grounds that are 300km apart will never work. Promotion relagation is the way to go.
10 Dec 2009, 12:35 pm
@Heavens Game: i tend to agree.
the 75 million that “would” have been put into the spears is surely not a loss to saru?
and surely the southern kings game vs the bil’s MADE money? if not, it once again shows that the ec is a bottoless pit when it comes to cash.
how did the alicedale academy cost saru R30 mil if it wasnt set up?
anyway, all this talk of money is worrying. i understand that the ec needs a stake in sarugby but i will never back any fast tracking of an ec franchise until i see things are in order at the union EP, first.
10 Dec 2009, 12:35 pm
And now the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend I’ll say it clear
I’ll state my case of which I’m certain
I’ve lived a life that’s full
I traveled each and every highway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way
Regrets I’ve had a few
But then again too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way
Yes there were times I’m sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out, I faced it all
And I stood tall and did it my way
I’ve loved, I’ve laughed and cried
I’ve had my fill, my share of losing
And now as tears subside
I find it all so amusing
To think I did all that
And may I say not in a shy way
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way
For what is a man what has he got
If not himself then he has not
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way
Yes it was my way
10 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm
@skunk: long time man, how you doing?
how did kwatu do this year man? we didnt play in the same div.
10 Dec 2009, 12:38 pm
kwantu, sorry.
10 Dec 2009, 12:38 pm
ok, gotta go.
tjorts all.
10 Dec 2009, 12:39 pm
@rangerman:
its called creative accounting….or twist the facts to suit your argument….
10 Dec 2009, 12:40 pm
@rangerman: Yeah, nice big round figure to throw around.
Would like to know who the headline sponsors would have been.
I dont think even the Sharks through their quite sophisticated branding get that amount just from sponsorship.
10 Dec 2009, 12:41 pm
@gunther: This guy must be a Lehman Brothers or WorldCom acolyte.
10 Dec 2009, 12:45 pm
wasn’t the Kings vs B Lions the 2nd highest ever attended game? Excl. test matches? I pretty sure it is. Record is held by Auckland, NZ i think
10 Dec 2009, 12:45 pm
Hey Ranger. Things are going well. But i think i have played my last game. Working on getting an academy going now. Hoping to be up and running by june next year. How is the bush?
10 Dec 2009, 12:52 pm
2nd highest ever attended game involving BL that is – non test matches …
Even cricket’s attendance in PE is the highest in SA….
10 Dec 2009, 12:54 pm
What’s your relationship with him like?
We have a good relationship.
Translated to Afrikaans:
Hoe is julle verhouding met mekaar?
Ons het ‘n goeie verstandhouding. (Ek het die verstand, hy het die houding.)
10 Dec 2009, 13:22 pm
@Slappes:
Quite simply there is a perceived threat of the prospect of being relegated and the loss of income from sponsorships by the existing 5 SA franchises.
If this was performance related one could have relegation and promotion matches – which themselves would be incredibly popular, but more than that there needs to be a second tier Super Rugby tournament under the Super14/15 to keep the Super14/15 hot.
10 Dec 2009, 13:27 pm
@Heavens Game:
Here is quick Factoid for you.
The sponsorship figure of R15m I quoted is the minimum required from a title sponsor. Cheetahs went off with the R10m per annum for 5 years that was to go to the 5th franchise allocated in 2005.
The SANZAR Super 15 bid document required a $8.2m-$12.5m underwriting for the Super rugby franchise which is a +R60m per annum figure.
If there is no tournament or fixture list for the Southern Kings or any other team that stands down or does not get promoted, for the next 5 years, the 6th franchise is toast and DOA.
10 Dec 2009, 13:35 pm
No regrets but I have lost SARU lots of money….ahh governmant can pick up the tab.
10 Dec 2009, 14:09 pm
mate thats simply not true…
in both instances…
10 Dec 2009, 17:11 pm
@TonyM: Do you have anything better to do than to sit around on blogs like this and sportsleader and do nothing but ***** about SARU?
10 Dec 2009, 17:27 pm
@steeve: Actually I enjoy Tony’s commentary. It certainly lifts the veil in an uncommon way.
Agree or disagree, but in my book he is articulate and committed to E Cape rugby, and I think most agree that Spears were shafted.
But overriding principle is he adds value & color to a blog that I enjoy reading.
You have a mouse.
10 Dec 2009, 17:34 pm
@SodaJoe: He just comes across to me as somebody who pushes the same points across week after week, not adding anything positive… I watch and read about rugby to be entertained not to feel depressed…
10 Dec 2009, 17:37 pm
@steeve: Stevie. Boet this is Keo. As a rite of passage you have to navigate people saying the same thing over and over and over and over…..
But rough with the smooth hey?
I learn something from Tony, if only a different point of view. Although I think he was shafted.
10 Dec 2009, 17:59 pm
@TonyM: The factoid is a bit of a “straw-man” for a couple of reasons I suspect. The Cheetahs sponsorship as in your figure quoted may be overinflated – i.e. aren’t Supersport a shareholder (equity) AND sponsor (income) of the team. So that figure may not be sponsorship only (may be combined equity + income). The Cheetahs are an established team. i.e. They exist, have a history and established market/demographic.
I said fruit basket because your subtotal (that shows “costs”) included a mixture of apples and pears i.e. implied revenue lost, sunk costs that haven’t happened, and sunk costs that have, plus equity that has this nominal value for a fictional organisation, all added together.
Very confusing, if you think about it, but all cleverly wrapped up into this nice, round, quotable, but ultimately misleading figure.
10 Dec 2009, 18:13 pm
@SodaJoe: And I find it just as painful when they do it – boet.
10 Dec 2009, 18:32 pm
@steeve: Ok – bud.
10 Dec 2009, 18:43 pm
no worries – tiger.
11 Dec 2009, 09:01 am
heavensgate & Steeeevie. Go on, whine and nitpick but one thing is for sure – unless SARu start acting like professionals and growing the game (and SA prowess & expertise) we will stagnate. EC had a viable bid, why was it thrown aside; no wonder TonyM is pissed. If Oz can support all the franchises it does with only a handful of players, why can’t SA? My answer; expertise and commitment is hugely lacking in SARU.
As has been sed a million times; SARU at present are self-interested amateurs. There is little go forward with this pack.
11 Dec 2009, 09:12 am
We´re not the ones whining mate, its the guys who are still bitching about the Eastern Cape not getting the 6th frnachise… Really lets just get over it already – life moves on…
11 Dec 2009, 10:22 am
@husky: EC had a “viable” bid? Yes, thats why they won the new franchise in the Super 15. Take away the political imperatives and what do you have? An imaginary team, a pipe dream that has played one game (they lost) filled with journeymen from outside the country. The days of EP are in the past – good organisations and teams do fade away when there is not enough support and institutional mismanagement/breakdown.
It is commendable that people like TonyM are trying their best but realities are – there are other, more established and better supported teams in SA that are already in the Super 15. On a lighter note, there is a case for banishing the Lions. Instead of lumping the Cheetahs with the Lions and calling them the Cats, because of geographical compatibility, merge the Bulls and Lions together and call them the Minotaurs or something.
Don’t stuff the Cheetahs around – I don’t think that any union contributes to SA player strength on a per capita basis than the Cheetahs do – they are the heartland of SA rugby – the equivalent of the Packers in Greenbay.
20 Dec 2009, 00:47 am
What do you expect from a man that perfected the art of ducking and diving, talking and walking while Rome is burning. Real leadership is what is needed if we want to have a chance to retain the World Cup, because the miracle of 2007 was a miracle performed by the players and not the administrators.If they can’t even delivery on ordinary things in the office how could they be able to have performed a miracle in 2007. They should not claim easy victories, because it was not their’s.
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